Nash, Finley and Cuban

[TwoDeep3]

Over the years the disappointment vented on boards like these in regard to no Championship has been vitriolic and constant. Most of the hyperbole pointed at Mark Cuban in one form or another.

It seems that as time wears on, Cuban is becoming the focal point of the angst shared by so many wanting the brass ring. Board members here and yon express their disdain for Cuban on a daily basis now.

But what has he truly done?

He let Steve Nash go to the Suns and not match an incredibly ridiculous contract which would have hurt this franchise for years to come.

How can anyone actually forget all the comments made here about the lack of defense Nash offered? It's surprising how Nash became the darling of the masses after he left, considering his daily skewering on his shortcomings prior to his departure.

He made the Suns look terrific. But then put Stoudemire on the Mavs and see if they wouldn't look as terrific.

Nash was Nash. The same player who can shoot the ball from weird angles and make seemingly impossible shots. And the player that gets beat defensively on any given night.

There are tomes created in the archives of this board which outline the failures of Nash. And his last season people were actually asking when was the last time Nash hit a game winning shot.

Finley, The Flying Tiger, was the first piece the franchise placed in rebuilding so many years ago. He suffered through the seasons of few wins and carried the team on his shoulders. He was an exciting player when there weren't many on this ball club. And fans loved his hustle and ability to walk on air. Baby Jordan or Poor Man's Jordan or some other such ridiculous nickname was following him during those dark days at Dallas.

Then the Nelson's brought in Nash and Dirk and the trio became winners. Everyone rejoiced and the trophy was merely a season away.

That same trophy is still a season away.

As Finley ages, the iron man of the Mavericks suddenly became mortal. His shot selection wasn't as awe inspiring. His ball handling was suspect. He couldn't finish around the glass enough because he was not a skilled enough player to force teams to stop his drives.

Fact is, Finley hardly ever drove to the basket in the last few years of his career in Dallas. He was a liability in Mavs blue and green.

Again boards like this one flung anger-filled posts at Finley because he wasn't the player they once knew. Or maybe ever was.

Mark Cuban let Finley go, and all Hell has broken loose. People are blaming Cuban for OUR Michael Finley departing and perhaps winning a championship at another location.

Several thoughts come to mind.

First and foremost, the business of professional basketball is a business. An entertainment business. But there is a bottom line, nonetheless. And no matter how much we crow, the club has to make a profit or any owner, including Jerry Buss, will bolt and sell the franchise to people like the Perot's and McDavid's. Guys who are less concerned about winning and more concerned about making as much money as possible.

The second point follows this train of thought. Cuban has tossed literally millions of dollars at this thing trying to win it all. He overpaid Finley when he needed to retain one of the main cogs on this team. He has shelled out zillions on Dirk. Rightfully so, but money spent to insure the german stays.

He has paid tons of cash to the Lafrenz's and Bradley's and other pleyers to try an bring the trophy home for the Dallas fans. Money he could have banked and put a product out on the floor which was less exciting.

How many posts have offered up trade possibilities which included Cuban giving the other team 3 million dollars?

Three frickin' million dollars!

This is not our money. Because if it was my money, I would tell you to step off. I am not spending my Three Million Dollars on any sports team.

But we all assumed Cuban would pony up the sheckles just to make this team marginally better.

Now the hue and cry will be that he didn't deliver, or that it is his obligation to part with this cash because we are the paying public and demand our ring. But that is crapola. He is a businessman and this is a business. And I am not sure there is a fan on any of these boards who wouold stake his entire bankroll on this team during any season you care to mention.

Cuban has done more for this team than any other person. Ever!

Finally, we say goodbye to Finley and there seems to be a small riot taking place and Mark Cuban is being burned in effigy over the departure of Fin-dog.

If Finley wins it all with his new team, doesn't he deserve our happiness because of the years he suffered the huge responbsibility of being the one great player on a team that couldn't win 20 games? Shouldn't we rejoice in a guy who gave his all for this team finally getting what he deserves?

Or Nash for that matter. Didn't he lay it all on the line for us and deliver. Not to the heights we expected or wanted. But the guy came to play every night. Should we be happy for this guy?

I think so.

Then there is Cuban. Who brought exciting basketball to Dallas again. Got us as close as we have ever been to the Finals. He spent more money than any of us, or maybe all of us together will make in our lifetimes. Just to put a product on the floor that had a chance.

There are no gurantees in this league. Unless you had Shaq or Duncan, you didn't stand a chance to win it all.

Did Cuban try and get Shaq?

We will never know the truth, but knowing Cuban as we do, you can bet your money safely that he tried. Tried in the sense that he didn't want to offer Nowitzki in return.

And I believe that is all we can ask.

Is Cuban through tinkering with this franchise?

Is Rosie O'Donnell through being a lesbian?

Hell no!

Is Mark Cuban the perfect owner?

Is Kenny Rogers an anger management therapist in the off-season?

Hell no!

I miss Steve and his nightly high flying show. I will miss Michael and his leadership. His fist-pumping game-winning antics when the team is at their peak.

But his time is past. His skills are diminishing. As are/will Nash's skills long before we pay the last dollar on a contract borne of emotion and not good business sense.

Cuban ain't the greatest owner ever. But he sure lays it on the line in a way we haven't seen here in professional basketball. Ever!

The team had a shot to get out from under a smothering contract. A contract that was so over-the-top for an aging star it paled anything in the league.

Finley will get his bucks and we freed then up.

This day was coming, no matter what we ever thought. And some of you were damn sure willing to make this time come last year for Finley and the year before for Nash.

I think back to Aesop's Fables and the sour grapes story. Because these heartfelt rants against Cuban for poor Michael Finley and Stevie Nash are just that.

Sour grapes.

We had them. When they were ours we berrated them for not winning it all. Now that they're gone we are so contrite and angry at the one man who didn't pony up the money for Nash or let Finley go without compensation.

Those days are gone. We will all miss them.

Cuban is an over-inflated ego and sometimes a real ass. But he is also a player in this NBA owner's game that will fork out the cheese if he thinks he can improve the team.

Maybe we should just be grateful we aren't the Clippers.

Let's move on with at least a shred of dignity and stop being whiney fans who didn't get a new toy.

[chumdawg]

You make a number of fine points in this essay, but I absolutely detest the straw man argument you use at the very end (and that a number of other people on the boards like just as much). We don't have to be grateful we aren't the Clippers. There is only one Clippers. The Clippers are UNIQUE. It is not a either/or question. When you stop being willing to pay any price in pursuit of a title, that does not make you the Clippers! It makes you just like 90% of the teams in the league.

[TwoDeep3]

Counting one's blessings is difficult in such an emotional endeavor.

We could have the Clippers ownership. Which was much more to the point.

Cuban is trying something different after chasing every trade possible. he is parting ways with players that did not deliver when and sometimes past their prime.

I hardly see how that is a bad thing.

And maybe that is another blessing we should consider.

[chumdawg]

We could have the Clippers ownership. Which was much more to the point.

Yes, that is exactly the point. There is a 1-in-30 chance that we could have the Clippers ownership.

You make it sound like half the league acts like the Clippers do, and it is oh, so probable that we could find ourselves among that group, so we should be eternally grateful we dodged that bullet. Bah. Nonsense.

[bobatundi1]

Thanks for this post--one of the best I've ever read on this board.

[stuportremens]

Letting Steve Nash go was stupid. The guy was last season's MVP, so I guess the contract wasn't all that ridiculous.
And signing Dampier to a huge contract doesn't make the front office look any smarter.
That's what I'm pissed about.

Letting Finley go is another move that doesn't make the team any better, it only helps Cuban.

Things are looking down right now compared to a few years ago and us fans have the goddam right to be angry about it.

[TwoDeep3]

When nash is aged and no longer can make the plays he did last year, and still will be owed a huge amount of money. Where will you be to proclaim the loss of nash was stupid.

By the way, did his MVP play last season win the championship?

I think there lies your answer.

[chumdawg]

I hate to shatter your illusions, but Nash's "replacement" will not in fact be getting younger, or cheaper, while Nash is getting older and less expensive. Sorry to break that to you.

What is your point, exactly, on the MVP thing? Are you suggesting that ultra-high-caliber play is meaningless if the player's team doesn't win the championship that year?

It's really, really easy to turn this around back at you. All I have to do is say: when Dampier doesn't lead us to a championship, you will see how foolish it was to acquire him, especially at Nash's expense.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally posted by: stuportremens
Letting Steve Nash go was stupid. The guy was last season's MVP, so I guess the contract wasn't all that ridiculous.

Well he sure didn't look like the MVP when he got eaten alive by Bibby for the third or fourth time in the playoffs the previous year and we lost 4-1. And we'll see if he's still playing like the MVP in 4 years. If not, then that contract might end up looking pretty ridiculous after all, especially when it causes them to lose Marion.

And signing Dampier to a huge contract doesn't make the front office look any smarter.
That's what I'm pissed about.

Debateable. Personally, I'm damn glad we signed Damp, because we sure as hell weren't going anywhere without a physical presence in the middle like him.

Letting Finley go is another move that doesn't make the team any better, it only helps Cuban.

Bullshit. Finley just didn't fit into the team's new direction. He just wasn't the right guy for the job anymore, and I can honestly say that I think the team is better off with Christie. And you know, I really don't think Cuban was trying to avoid the LT so he can buy another mansion. I think it's fair to say he wishes to have something resembling roster flexibility, and to not be trapped under untradeable contracts like Finley's. (Don't even bitch about Dampier's contract, because if we actually wanted to trade Dampier, we could. But he's actually a valuble part of the team, so we don't.)

Things are looking down right now compared to a few years ago and us fans have the goddam right to be angry about it.

What the f*ck was so great a few years ago? You mean, when one season when we won two more games, and went to the WCF? I'm sorry, but I like where we are now better. I just don't long for the days when the Lakers and the Kings always stomped our asses into the grounds and made us look like pussies. I just don't long for the days when we blew a 3-0 lead and almost lost in the first round to Portland. I just don't long for the days when we used every ounce of strength we had to beat a Sacramento team that was without its star player. I just don't long for the days when we lost to San Antonio. And don't give me any sh*t about Dirk being injured, because San Antonio was well in control of that series by the time Dirk went out, and was the better team anyway. Actually, I'm a LOT happier about where we are now than I was after the 03 season. I loved Nash as much as anyone, but I really like not having him being the anchor of our atrocious defense. I like that we actually have a center that play physical and f*cking REBOUND. I like that we can at least vaguely grasp the concept of defense and toughness. Oh yeah, and I like the fact that Dirk is 1st team All NBA and a legitimate MVP canidate, neither of which he was when Nash was here.

[aexchange]

i think of all the posts i've read on this board from you, this is the first time i've completely agreed with everything you've said.

you hit the nail on the head.

[TwoDeep3]

Originally posted by: chumdawg
I hate to shatter your illusions, but Nash's "replacement" will not in fact be getting younger, or cheaper, while Nash is getting older and less expensive. Sorry to break that to you.

And yet when Steve Nash is an old man in this league, Devon Harris will be hitting his stride.

Will he be cheaper?

That remains to be seen.

But factually, he will be younger.

If your argument is that we should have kept Nash, then you have to factor in all things pertinent. Such as his defense and his age and propensity to wear out.

he will still toss alley opps to Stoudemire for the next two years. Then where will he be.

He will be a player on a team that is signing huge paychecks and wishing they didn't have to pay him.

And during their second thoughts, Devon Harris will be about what....26 years old?

[The Miles]

Originally posted by: stuportremens
Letting Steve Nash go was stupid. The guy was last season's MVP, so I guess the contract wasn't all that ridiculous.
And signing Dampier to a huge contract doesn't make the front office look any smarter.
That's what I'm pissed about.

Letting Finley go is another move that doesn't make the team any better, it only helps Cuban.

Things are looking down right now compared to a few years ago and us fans have the goddam right to be angry about it.

Yeah, things are looking real down. The team is returning 11 players off of the 2nd best team in franchise history, tough days.

[FreshJive]

Spiral "Well he sure didn't look like the MVP when he got eaten alive by Bibby for the third or fourth time in the playoffs the previous year and we lost 4-1. And we'll see if he's still playing like the MVP in 4 years. If not, then that contract might end up looking pretty ridiculous after all, especially when it causes them to lose Marion."

Sac geared thier entire defense to stop Nash in that series (the first time a team had ever tried this). He still put up decent stats (9 apg to Bibby's 4). The previous year Nash blew Bibby away in the playoffs (19.1 ppg to 12.3ppg, 7.4 apg to 4.1 apg). Once Nash adjusted to having a team concentrate thier defense on him for an entire year in Phoenix he was back to his all NBA self. He even ate our very own Jason Terry alive.

[FreshJive]

Originally posted by: The Miles

Yeah, things are looking real down. The team is returning 11 players off of the 2nd best team in franchise history, tough days.

2nd best? The Mavs have been to the WCF twice.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally posted by: FreshJive
Spiral "Well he sure didn't look like the MVP when he got eaten alive by Bibby for the third or fourth time in the playoffs the previous year and we lost 4-1. And we'll see if he's still playing like the MVP in 4 years. If not, then that contract might end up looking pretty ridiculous after all, especially when it causes them to lose Marion."

Sac geared thier entire defense to stop Nash in that series (the first time a team had ever tried this). He still put up decent stats (9 apg to Bibby's 4). The previous year Nash blew Bibby away in the playoffs (19.1 ppg to 12.3ppg, 7.4 apg to 4.1 apg). Once Nash adjusted to having a team concentrate thier defense on him for an entire year in Phoenix he was back to his all NBA self. He even ate our very own Jason Terry alive.

He put up decent stats, sure, but was the MVP? Of course not. During his entire tenure in Dallas, he was never even remotely close to being an MVP canidate. Actually, I remember he was almost universally considered to be the 3rd best PG in the league, behind Kidd and Marbury. Also, yes in 03 he played better than Bibby, but he also had Van Exel to take a huge part of the burden off his shoulders. But we all remember our poor Mavericks getting decimated by the Kings in 02, and Bibby played circles around Nash in that series. Maybe letting Nash go was a bad decision, I don't think so, but it's certainly reasonable. But it's ridiculous to say that Cuban "let the MVP go" because Nash wasn't even an all-star that year, let alone MVP.

[chumdawg]

Solid points, Fresh. I, too, have often believed that Bibby didn't run circles around Nash as much as some say he did.

Maybe, just maybe, Nash is getting *better* as he ages. His game never relied on a great deal of athleticism in the first place. Stamina, yes. But some guys can keep up their stamina for a good long while. I think it's too early to suggest that Nash is going to be a broken down bronco in a couple years. Personally, I except him to still be a solid rotation player at the end of his current contract, if not still a starter.

[FilthyFinMavs]

You guys talk about Harris as if he's a piece here to stay. If your name isn't Dirk I don't think anyone is safe as a Mav.

[alby]

This is the NBA, Dampier is a big and therefore is worth more than a guard.

[FreshJive]

Originally posted by: Thespiralgoeson

He put up decent stats, sure, but was the MVP? Of course not. During his entire tenure in Dallas, he was never even remotely close to being an MVP canidate. Actually, I remember he was almost universally considered to be the 3rd best PG in the league, behind Kidd and Marbury. Also, yes in 03 he played better than Bibby, but he also had Van Exel to take a huge part of the burden off his shoulders. But we all remember our poor Mavericks getting decimated by the Kings in 02, and Bibby played circles around Nash in that series. Maybe letting Nash go was a bad decision, I don't think so, but it's certainly reasonable. But it's ridiculous to say that Cuban "let the MVP go" because Nash wasn't even an all-star that year, let alone MVP.

I'll admit one thing, Spiral. "Cuban let the MVP go" is BS, but it just makes Cuban look so much more wrong than if I were to say, "Cuban let my favorite Mav go". Its kind of like when Miles says last year's team was the 2nd best in Mavs history.

I do think that Nash was our best player though, and a perfect match for Dirk. I also agree with Chum that Nash isn't the type of player that relies on the kind of qualities that a player loses as he gets older. Personally, I think our owner could have bought the championship last year by signing both Nash and Damp (and trading for JT, KVH), but instead we are following the "SA model" and all that implies (or whatever that implies).

[Red-Phase]

Originally posted by: TwoDeep3
Over the years the disappointment vented on boards like these in regard to no Championship has been vitriolic and constant. Most of the hyperbole pointed at Mark Cuban in one form or another.

It seems that as time wears on, Cuban is becoming the focal point of the angst shared by so many wanting the brass ring. Board members here and yon express their disdain for Cuban on a daily basis now.

But what has he truly done?

He let Steve Nash go to the Suns and not match an incredibly ridiculous contract which would have hurt this franchise for years to come.

How can anyone actually forget all the comments made here about the lack of defense Nash offered? It's surprising how Nash became the darling of the masses after he left, considering his daily skewering on his shortcomings prior to his departure.

He made the Suns look terrific. But then put Stoudemire on the Mavs and see if they wouldn't look as terrific.

Nash was Nash. The same player who can shoot the ball from weird angles and make seemingly impossible shots. And the player that gets beat defensively on any given night.

There are tomes created in the archives of this board which outline the failures of Nash. And his last season people were actually asking when was the last time Nash hit a game winning shot.

Finley, The Flying Tiger, was the first piece the franchise placed in rebuilding so many years ago. He suffered through the seasons of few wins and carried the team on his shoulders. He was an exciting player when there weren't many on this ball club. And fans loved his hustle and ability to walk on air. Baby Jordan or Poor Man's Jordan or some other such ridiculous nickname was following him during those dark days at Dallas.

Then the Nelson's brought in Nash and Dirk and the trio became winners. Everyone rejoiced and the trophy was merely a season away.

That same trophy is still a season away.

As Finley ages, the iron man of the Mavericks suddenly became mortal. His shot selection wasn't as awe inspiring. His ball handling was suspect. He couldn't finish around the glass enough because he was not a skilled enough player to force teams to stop his drives.

Fact is, Finley hardly ever drove to the basket in the last few years of his career in Dallas. He was a liability in Mavs blue and green.

Again boards like this one flung anger-filled posts at Finley because he wasn't the player they once knew. Or maybe ever was.

Mark Cuban let Finley go, and all Hell has broken loose. People are blaming Cuban for OUR Michael Finley departing and perhaps winning a championship at another location.

Several thoughts come to mind.

First and foremost, the business of professional basketball is a business. An entertainment business. But there is a bottom line, nonetheless. And no matter how much we crow, the club has to make a profit or any owner, including Jerry Buss, will bolt and sell the franchise to people like the Perot's and McDavid's. Guys who are less concerned about winning and more concerned about making as much money as possible.

The second point follows this train of thought. Cuban has tossed literally millions of dollars at this thing trying to win it all. He overpaid Finley when he needed to retain one of the main cogs on this team. He has shelled out zillions on Dirk. Rightfully so, but money spent to insure the german stays.

He has paid tons of cash to the Lafrenz's and Bradley's and other pleyers to try an bring the trophy home for the Dallas fans. Money he could have banked and put a product out on the floor which was less exciting.

How many posts have offered up trade possibilities which included Cuban giving the other team 3 million dollars?

Three frickin' million dollars!

This is not our money. Because if it was my money, I would tell you to step off. I am not spending my Three Million Dollars on any sports team.

But we all assumed Cuban would pony up the sheckles just to make this team marginally better.

Now the hue and cry will be that he didn't deliver, or that it is his obligation to part with this cash because we are the paying public and demand our ring. But that is crapola. He is a businessman and this is a business. And I am not sure there is a fan on any of these boards who wouold stake his entire bankroll on this team during any season you care to mention.

Cuban has done more for this team than any other person. Ever!

Finally, we say goodbye to Finley and there seems to be a small riot taking place and Mark Cuban is being burned in effigy over the departure of Fin-dog.

If Finley wins it all with his new team, doesn't he deserve our happiness because of the years he suffered the huge responbsibility of being the one great player on a team that couldn't win 20 games? Shouldn't we rejoice in a guy who gave his all for this team finally getting what he deserves?

Or Nash for that matter. Didn't he lay it all on the line for us and deliver. Not to the heights we expected or wanted. But the guy came to play every night. Should we be happy for this guy?

I think so.

Then there is Cuban. Who brought exciting basketball to Dallas again. Got us as close as we have ever been to the Finals. He spent more money than any of us, or maybe all of us together will make in our lifetimes. Just to put a product on the floor that had a chance.

There are no gurantees in this league. Unless you had Shaq or Duncan, you didn't stand a chance to win it all.

Did Cuban try and get Shaq?

We will never know the truth, but knowing Cuban as we do, you can bet your money safely that he tried. Tried in the sense that he didn't want to offer Nowitzki in return.

And I believe that is all we can ask.

Is Cuban through tinkering with this franchise?

Is Rosie O'Donnell through being a lesbian?

Hell no!

Is Mark Cuban the perfect owner?

Is Kenny Rogers an anger management therapist in the off-season?

Hell no!

I miss Steve and his nightly high flying show. I will miss Michael and his leadership. His fist-pumping game-winning antics when the team is at their peak.

But his time is past. His skills are diminishing. As are/will Nash's skills long before we pay the last dollar on a contract borne of emotion and not good business sense.

Cuban ain't the greatest owner ever. But he sure lays it on the line in a way we haven't seen here in professional basketball. Ever!

The team had a shot to get out from under a smothering contract. A contract that was so over-the-top for an aging star it paled anything in the league.

Finley will get his bucks and we freed then up.

This day was coming, no matter what we ever thought. And some of you were damn sure willing to make this time come last year for Finley and the year before for Nash.

I think back to Aesop's Fables and the sour grapes story. Because these heartfelt rants against Cuban for poor Michael Finley and Stevie Nash are just that.

Sour grapes.

We had them. When they were ours we berrated them for not winning it all. Now that they're gone we are so contrite and angry at the one man who didn't pony up the money for Nash or let Finley go without compensation.

Those days are gone. We will all miss them.

Cuban is an over-inflated ego and sometimes a real ass. But he is also a player in this NBA owner's game that will fork out the cheese if he thinks he can improve the team.

Maybe we should just be grateful we aren't the Clippers.

Let's move on with at least a shred of dignity and stop being whiney fans who didn't get a new toy.

Well lets summarize this topic....Mostly FUD and cuban bashing (have you met mark? how long you known him personally?How do you know they are mad at him?...See you just pulled that right out of your scapegoating @$$) some Mavs are teh DOOMED!...and general demonizing cuban....

maybe we should be grateful that we have avery johnson as a coach that shipped of useless parts to create a REAL championship team.

[Red-Phase]

Originally posted by: stuportremens
Letting Steve Nash go was stupid. The guy was last season's MVP, so I guess the contract wasn't all that ridiculous.
And signing Dampier to a huge contract doesn't make the front office look any smarter.
That's what I'm pissed about.

Letting Finley go is another move that doesn't make the team any better, it only helps Cuban.

Things are looking down right now compared to a few years ago and us fans have the goddam right to be angry about it.

They didn't. They just couldn't keep him while playing reduced minutes.

[SanAntonioMavericksFan]

Why does almost everyone here keep calling Nash the MVP as if that means something? That was a title the media bestowed on him, but just because a bunch of sports journalists believe something doesn't make it so. I wouldn't bother calling someone the MVP unless I actually believe they're either the best or most valuable player in the league. Nash is neither of those things.

[alby]

I'm not a huge Nash fan by any means, but I'm not going to cut the guy short. He was no question the catylist to a Phoenix team who were not very good the year before he arrived and therefore was named the NBA MVP because of such a big turnaround. He brought them back into national attention and respect. With that being said, he played out of mind on his way to the best year of his basketball life. I seriously doubt he will ever come close to last season's production ever again IMO.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: chumdawg
I hate to shatter your illusions, but Nash's "replacement" will not in fact be getting younger, or cheaper, while Nash is getting older and less expensive. Sorry to break that to you.

What is your point, exactly, on the MVP thing? Are you suggesting that ultra-high-caliber play is meaningless if the player's team doesn't win the championship that year?

It's really, really easy to turn this around back at you. All I have to do is say: when Dampier doesn't lead us to a championship, you will see how foolish it was to acquire him, especially at Nash's expense.

Same argument can be made about dirk or any player if the gauge is championship or bust. Karl Malone/Charles Barkley were obviously the most overpaid stiffs in history with that as the criteria.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: FilthyFinMavs
You guys talk about Harris as if he's a piece here to stay. If your name isn't Dirk I don't think anyone is safe as a Mav.

Heck harris may never even start another NBA game from what I've seen. He's surely not guaranteed to.

[philb7777]

No, but he beat OUR ass. And they were a heck of alot more fun and entertaining to watch. Now we will be slow - ball and still get no closer to the brass ring.

[alby]

Originally posted by: dude1394

Same argument can be made about dirk or any player if the gauge is championship or bust. Karl Malone/Charles Barkley were obviously the most overpaid stiffs in history with that as the criteria.

You are referring to hall of fame players, Steve Nash, I hate to break it to you, is not Hall of Fame material.

[dude1394]

Come on alby, read the post.

But you just wait, you might be surprised, if I remember correctly MVP is almost a guaranteed hall of fame trip.

[Red-Phase]

are you smokin clorox? he's NOT going to get a whiff of the hall of fame.

[V2M]

Just an honest question: Was there ever an MVP that hasn't entered the hall of fame?

Nash is an MVP and a 3-time all-star. He's a lock for at least another couple appearances.
He plays a full-speed, reckless style that's pleasing to the eye and which has brought in several new fans to the game.
He's already made a hugely positive impact and, I believe, the game is better off for him.

I'll be shocked if he doesn't get in!

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally posted by: V2M
Just an honest question: Was there ever an MVP that hasn't entered the hall of fame?

Nash is an MVP and a 3-time all-star. He's a lock for at least another couple appearances.
He plays a full-speed, reckless style that's pleasing to the eye and which has brought in several new fans to the game.
He's already made a hugely positive impact and, I believe, the game is better off for him.

I'll be shocked if he doesn't get in!

If Phoenix wins a title, he's in for sure. If Phoenix doesn't win a title, then I don't think he will.

[u2sarajevo]

Originally posted by: V2M
Just an honest question: Was there ever an MVP that hasn't entered the hall of fame?

Nash is an MVP and a 3-time all-star. He's a lock for at least another couple appearances.
He plays a full-speed, reckless style that's pleasing to the eye and which has brought in several new fans to the game.
He's already made a hugely positive impact and, I believe, the game is better off for him.

I'll be shocked if he doesn't get in!

Charles Barkley. Olajuwon (but he will get in). Robinson (ditto). Malone (tritto?). The rest are still playing.

Looks like Nash might be the 2nd player in NBA History to win the MVP but not be a HOF'er.

edit: After looking at the list of MVP winners.... Nash is by far the sparest player to ever win it.

[V2M]

Originally posted by: Thespiralgoeson

If Phoenix wins a title, he's in for sure. If Phoenix doesn't win a title, then I don't think he will.

If Phoenix wins a title... yes I agree he's in for sure. If they don't, I think he just needs a couple more years like last year where he leads the league in Assists, couple of all-star appearances and all-nba 1st or 2nd teams... and I think he'll be a lock then.
The way Amare is set to dominate and with Marion to help out, I don't think that's difficult at all.

[grbh]

FWIW, every NBA MVP who is eligible is in the Hall of Fame.

Below is an intersting monitor of hall of fame status. This site uses several different stats to earn point:

For example a player earns points on the following:
Years of Service
All Star Appearances
MVP's
Titles
All NBA team

and a few more:

Over 135 points equals a likely Hall of Famer. 99% of players who are over 160 (and eligible) are in the Hall. Nash is curently at 159 points.

I think he will likely get in.

Nash stats and Hall of Fame Guide

Explanation

[DwD]

I thought Nash was all-star just two times (once with Dirk and once with Amare)...

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally posted by: DwD
I thought Nash was all-star just two times (once with Dirka nd once with Amare)...

He was an All-star twice in Dallas.

[DwD]

Nope - Nash went to All-Star only once with Dallas. Nowitzki was our only all-star in season 2003-2004.

[Mavs Maniac]

Originally posted by: dude1394

Heck harris may never even start another NBA game from what I've seen. He's surely not guaranteed to.

Didn't Nash get booed off the court for the first year and a half to two years he was here? And wasn't that after a couple of years in Phoenix? I think everyone who deems Harris a bust is being a little quick to judge him. If they were this quick to judge Nash, he might have been another one of Cuban's casualties. Let's let Devin mature with this team and if he hasn't panned out in a couple of years, then all the naysayers have every right to call him a bust.

[V2M]

Originally posted by: DwD
Nope - Nash went to All-Star only once with Dallas. Nowitzki was our only all-star in season 2003-2004.

I do remember him being an All-Star twice in Dallas. I think he made it in 2001 & 2002 and missed it in 2003 before getting back there with Amare and Marion in 2004.

[Some Guy]

Nash played in the All-Star game in 2002 and 2003, so twice for Dallas.


http://www.nba.com/history/allstar/boxscore_2002.html
http://www.nba.com/history/allstar/boxscore_2003.html