Word to the Faithful - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

DJ Mavs Fan · 09-24-2005, 05:26 PM

If you missed Germany vs Spain, find a way to watch that game. The realization you will come upon is that Dirk is the Mavs one way ticket to the championship, and that ticket will be cashed in soon!

Dirk has taken a rag tag absoutely horrible German team to the finals and probably to the championship, with this defeat of Spain.

What is utterly unbelievable is that Dirk, who we all know is great has improved his game markedly. His defense is outstanding, no more jumping after offensive players, and his passing is absolutely FLAWLESS.

The championship aspirations of all mavs fans hinge on the emmergence of our young talent. Howard is already there, Marquis is only minutes away (no pun intended), and the Mavs CAN win it all this year if Devin Harris comes into his own, as the man to run this team!

San Antonio, Phoenix, your days are numbered!
Every faithful Mavs fan awaken, for the day of reckoning is near!

chumdawg · 09-24-2005, 05:38 PM

Nice post. I stole the end of it for my sig. Hope you don't mind!

Drbio · 09-24-2005, 06:09 PM

I'm jazzed that Dirk is playing well, but let's be realistic here. He isn'texactly playing against NBA talent here.

Thespiralgoeson · 09-24-2005, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Drbio
I'm jazzed that Dirk is playing well, but let's be realistic here. He isn'texactly playing against NBA talent here.

Whatever Doc...

grndmstr_c · 09-24-2005, 06:22 PM

It's the winning that I'm enjoying most. I'd argue that with the amount of defensive attention he's drawing his numbers are plenty impressive, regardless of the lack of NBA defenders. But he's not just putting up good individual numbers. He's leading a team very few people thought had much of a chance to the finals, and that's exciting.

Bayliss · 09-24-2005, 06:47 PM

Quote:

I'm jazzed that Dirk is playing well, but let's be realistic here. He isn'texactly playing against NBA talent here.

Rasho, Nachbar, Brezec, Plannic, Giricek, Radmanivic, Darko, Kristic, Kirinlenko, Kryapa, Slava, Parker, Diaw, Pietrus... and there are a ton of guys who have been drafted but decided to stay in Europe such as Navarro, Javoktas, Vasquez, Ukic, (a Greek dude I can't spell), etc etc.

Doc... if they aren't talented enough for the NBA... why is the NBA wanting them to play in the NBA?

Thespiralgoeson · 09-24-2005, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c I'd argue that with the amount of defensive attention he's drawing his numbers are plenty impressive,

Exactly. Dirk's drawing more defense in this tournament than he ever has in the NBA. Everytime he touches the ball he's being double or tripple-teamed.

Quote:

He's leading a team very few people thought had much of a chance to the finals, and that's exciting.

Bingo. Before, it was the general consensus that Germany had very little chance of making it past the Quarter-Finals

dude1394 · 09-24-2005, 06:59 PM

Confidence boys, confidence. Winning begets winning... Winning championships begets additional championships. Winning a German championship will boost dirks confidence and that is a great thing. So much of sports is between the ears..

We've seen it when dirk get's pissed, he takes on a new personna, he's even more unstoppable.

All to the good.

alby · 09-24-2005, 07:06 PM

on the other hand, if Dirk and Germany get thoroughly outplayed tomorrow, it may hurt his confidence..

Thespiralgoeson · 09-24-2005, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: alby
on the other hand, if Dirk and Germany get thoroughly outplayed tomorrow, it may hurt his confidence..

Doubtful... He's already taken the team further than anyone thought they could go. If Germany loses tomorrow, Dirk will be that much more motivated to prove himself.

alby · 09-24-2005, 07:48 PM

I know if I made it to the title game, then get my ass handed to me? I'm no better than the last place team.

If Dirk is the type of player that is now "confident" just because he made it to the championship game, then I'm sad to say this but I want someone else leading our Dallas Mavericks. =\

dude1394 · 09-24-2005, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: alby
on the other hand, if Dirk and Germany get thoroughly outplayed tomorrow, it may hurt his confidence..

No doubt true. Therefore it will not be as positive an experience for him. But can't win 'em unless you play 'em.

Thespiralgoeson · 09-24-2005, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: alby
If Dirk is the type of player that is now "confident" just because he made it to the championship game, then I'm sad to say this but I want someone else leading our Dallas Mavericks. =\

I didn't say that Dirk was that kind of player. I said if Germany lost to Greece, he'd be that much more motivated to prove himself.

Edit: And if Dirk is the type of player that gets discouraged, and doubts himself after suffering defeat, then I want someone else leading our Dallas Mavericks.

dude1394 · 09-24-2005, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: alby
I know if I made it to the title game, then get my ass handed to me? I'm no better than the last place team.

If Dirk is the type of player that is now "confident" just because he made it to the championship game, then I'm sad to say this but I want someone else leading our Dallas Mavericks. =\

Sounds pretty hyperbolic to me Alby. So if you honestly got to the finals of a tournament and then got the heck beat out of you, you would think you were not better than the last place team? Huh??

So do you think that winning breeds confidence or not? Or would he be much more confident if his team always got their rear-ends handed to them in the first game, makes no sense... And no one is saying that ONLY because he got to a title game is he a confident player, just that winning breeds confidence. Most teams and players get close before they get over the hump, jordan, shaquille, bird, even jabbar, etc.

Thespiralgoeson · 09-24-2005, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394

Quote:

Originally posted by: alby
I know if I made it to the title game, then get my ass handed to me? I'm no better than the last place team.

If Dirk is the type of player that is now "confident" just because he made it to the championship game, then I'm sad to say this but I want someone else leading our Dallas Mavericks. =\

Sounds pretty hyperbolic to me Alby. So if you honestly got to the finals of a tournament and then got the heck beat out of you, you would think you were not better than the last place team? Huh??

I wonder if Allen Iverson felt that way after he was named MVP, took his team to the finals, and got trouced by the Lakers... I wonder if Larry Bird felt that way when his team lost to Magic's team in the NCAA finals...

Drbio · 09-24-2005, 08:57 PM

Oh that's right Bayliss....the NBA is littered with those players. [img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img]

sheesh....

MrCheerios · 09-24-2005, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Bayliss

Rasho, Nachbar, Brezec, Plannic, Giricek, Radmanivic, Darko, Kristic, Kirinlenko, Kryapa, Slava, Parker, Diaw, Pietrus... and there are a ton of guys who have been drafted but decided to stay in Europe such as Navarro, Javoktas, Vasquez, Ukic, (a Greek dude I can't spell), etc etc.

Doc... if they aren't talented enough for the NBA... why is the NBA wanting them to play in the NBA?

Most of those guys are not starter material, some don't even belong in the NBA (Slava, Nachbar, Plannic, etc.), and none are All-NBA any team. And those guys are the best players on their teams. Dirk, with his talent, would destroy any of them. So let's not get carried away; wait to see it happen during the NBA season. Still, it's very exciting to see dirk win no matter what league he's in.

Bayliss · 09-24-2005, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Most of those guys are not starter material, some don't even belong in the NBA

Some aren't. But some are.

Dirk had to go up against arguable the best defensive player in the league a couple of games ago. He had to go up against 3 **quality** NBA players in Nachbar, Rasho, Brezec last game.

To say he hasn't been playing against NBA competition is false. He hasn't been playing against all-nba talent. (But unless he plays against Team USA he will never play against All-NBA talent in these competitions. (Yao perhaps being the only exception.)

seelenjaeger · 09-24-2005, 10:18 PM

Dirks been playing the same opponents that made the NBA Team look bad in Indy ...

Actually the interesting thing about this German team is that it has absolutely NO other offensive player worth covering (well, plenty guys to nail the open three, but that´s it), so Dirk is not only defended by the opponents best defender trying to make sure he isnt getting the ball to start with, but also he often gets double teamed on the blind side by a guard going for the ball.

In addition, he´s getting the ball at the three point line and at his usual position in mid-distance most of the time, no open looks, has to create his own shot.

So yes, when you give Dirk 4 defense-first players able to hit the occasional three pointer and a point guard with solid ball handling that can hit the three and change speed and momentum at times, it looks like he´s able to be the guy.

But what they are doing out there takes alot of power and energy every night, every game. That might work in a 7 game in 2 weeks ECC. This won´t work in a 20+ games offseason.

Thespiralgoeson · 09-24-2005, 10:29 PM

I hope AJ lets Dirk rest up just a little bit during training camp... He's earned it.

Thespiralgoeson · 09-24-2005, 10:37 PM

the dreaded double-post

dirno2000 · 09-24-2005, 10:49 PM

Doesn't matter that he's not doing this against top level NBA competition...we've already seen him do that anyway. This is about Dirk proving to himself that he can lead a team to a title. You can talk all you want about how meaningless this tournament is because it's just a bunch of Euros but don't tell that to Dirk...he's calling it the most important game of his life. You just can't put a value on the experience or the confidence he'd gain if he's albe to pull this off tomorrow.

birdsanctuary · 09-24-2005, 10:55 PM

Great post DJ Mavs fan, you took the words right out of my mouth!

Doc, the whole point is that Dirk is unquestionably the best European player. And he's taking a team with some of most undersized undertalented guards and carrying them to the finals. Dirk's not going to get his a$$ handed to him tomorrow! He's gonna win Germany the championship.

With a win tomorrow Dirk takes one more step toward becoming the best basketball player in the WORLD!

PS. This is how fast Yahoo DSL is.

seelenjaeger · 09-24-2005, 10:58 PM

Dirks been playing the same opponents that made the NBA Team look bad in Indy ...

Actually the interesting thing about this German team is that it has absolutely NO other offensive player worth covering (well, plenty guys to nail the open three, but that´s it), so Dirk is not only defended by the opponents best defender trying to make sure he isnt getting the ball to start with, but also he often gets double teamed on the blind side by a guard going for the ball.

In addition, he´s getting the ball at the three point line and at his usual position in mid-distance most of the time, no open looks, has to create his own shot.

So yes, when you give Dirk 4 defense-first players able to hit the occasional three pointer and a point guard with solid ball handling that can hit the three and change speed and momentum at times, it looks like he´s able to be the guy.

But what they are doing out there takes alot of power and energy every night, every game. That might work in a 7 game in 2 weeks ECC. This won´t work in a 20+ games offseason.

mavfan2390 · 09-24-2005, 11:15 PM

Quote:

and none are All-NBA any team

well theres this Utah forward who led the nba in blocks per game....i cant remember his name (sarcasm)

Thespiralgoeson · 09-24-2005, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: seelenjaeger
Dirks been playing the same opponents that made the NBA Team look bad in Indy ...

Bingo. Doc, we all know the best players in the world play in the NBA. Nobody here is denying that. But your talking like Dirk's dominance in this tournament is a small thing, and it isn't.

Nobody here should be shocked at the numbers he's putting up, because except for one more rpg, they're the same numbers he put up in the NBA last season. What is incredible though is that he's carried this team to victory. Doc, make no mistake about the fact that going into this thing, Germany had the odds stacked against them. You say that he "isn't exactly playing against NBA talent here." Well, incase you haven't noticed, he's not exactly playing with NBA talent either. Outside of Dirk, and maybe Patrick Femerling, Germany has one of the least talented teams in the whole tournament. Most of teams that Germany's beaten so far were heavily favored over the German squad. Russia, Slovenia, and especially Spain were all favored over the Germans, and Dirk willed his team to victory over every one of them. Big scoring and rebounding numbers, game-winning shots, timely assists... Germany is and was a perenial underdog team, and now because of one incredible player, they're playing for the gold medal. What Dirk has accomplished so far in this tournament is nothing short of amazing.

chumdawg · 09-25-2005, 12:51 AM

I agree with most all the thoughts offered in this thread. Yes, it's huge for Dirk to experience winning on this level. But on the other hand, it may indeed prove moot when he's wearing the Dallas uniform. You cannot necessarily expect it to translate. National pride is a hard-to-quantify thing.

If anything, this recent news makes me all the more worried about what Avery Johnson might do with this team. You have to take full advantage of your most powerful weapons.

alby · 09-25-2005, 01:25 AM

Of course I feel that winning breeds confidence. How else are you going to develop confidence.. But I hope Dirk, our superstar, our franchise player, is the type of player that feels just getting to the championship game is not enough EVEN with the clearly overmatched team. AI was mentioned, what has he and the 76ers accomplished after his MVP season where he reached the finals? What happened to Malone? GP and the Sonics? How about Neil Odonnel and the Steelers? Stan Humphries and the Chargers? Kerry Collins and the Giants? Even the mighty showtime Lakers who lost to the Pistons were never the same. Sure, there are exceptions to the rule but to have that attitude is to believe that precious opportunities like that come around often which we all know isn't true. I think it is great that Dirk and Germany is in the title game tomorrow, that is a great stepping stone for basketball in that country and for Dirk Nowitzki as a leader. But if we are all going to be satisfied with stepping stones, then we are never going to win the whole thing.

Thespiralgoeson · 09-25-2005, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: alby AI was mentioned, what has he and the 76ers accomplished after his MVP season where he reached the finals?

Well the Sixers haven't accomplished anything because they have horrible managment, but he has accomplished plenty. Let's see, last season he won his 4 scoring title. If I remember correctly, the only other players to accomplish that are MJ, Wilt and Kareem. He was also in the top 5 in scoring, assists, and steals. You know how many other players have ever done that? None.

Quote:

What happened to Malone? GP and the Sonics?

What happened to Malone and GP? Uh, they got old....

Quote:

Even the mighty showtime Lakers who lost to the Pistons were never the same.

Well Kareem was 40 by then... And you do realize that the Pistons were not the first team to beat the Lakers in the finals, right? The Lakers also lost to the Sixers and Celtics, but went on to avenge both of those losses. Even after they lost to the Pistons they got back to the finals one more time against the Bulls. But by then Kareem was retired and an aging Magic was all they had left.

But all these examples... Are you saying that the reason AI hasn't gotten back to the finals is because of his confidence? Couldn't it also be that he's always been surrounded by a shitty team? Did Malone, GP, and the Showtime Lakers drop off because they didn't believe in themselves anymore, and just couldn't handle the agony of defeat? Or could it be that they just got old?

Quote:

I think it is great that Dirk and Germany is in the title game tomorrow, that is a great stepping stone for basketball in that country and for Dirk Nowitzki as a leader. But if we are all going to be satisfied with stepping stones, then we are never going to win the whole thing.

Alby, nobody's saying that Dirk should be satisfied with "stepping stones." But "satisfaction" and "confidence" are not the same thing. I really don't understand what you're trying to say. Are you saying that if Germany loses to Greece, that Dirk should be less confident in himself? Honestly, I don't get what your point is... I understand that he shouldn't be satisfied with being second-best, but you make it sound like he shouldn't believe in himself anymore anymore if they lose.

Great players fail... over and over again... But that failure only serves as motivation to proove themselves. Bird suffered an absolutely heart-breaking defeat to Magic in the NCAA finals. But was he less confident in himself after that? Hell no. For the first seven years of his career, Jordan got his ass handed to him by the Celtics and the Pistons. Was he less confident after that? Hell no.

alby · 09-25-2005, 03:33 AM

All I'm saying is if Germany does lose to Greece, Dirk is not going to come out as this one man reckoning crew that everyone is expecting him to be.

btw, wasn't magic 30 years old that year they lost to the pistons.

anyways im tired of all this discussion, the season is a little over a month away and i just cant wait! =]

digit · 09-25-2005, 05:09 AM

Please, don't compare playing in the NBA for $$ with playing for your country in EC, WC or Olympic Games. As witnessed in Indy and Athens American players don't have that pride and understanding what it is like for international players to play for their people. It's all about emotions, effort and playing your heart out. By far the biggest thing in international sport is to win for your country, to win on a club level is more of a personal thing for the player...playing for the national team, you owe to your people.

I am just proud of our team and Dirk...the EC is not about flashy play or highlight dunks, it's strictly about winning and going for GOLD!!!

Arne · 09-25-2005, 05:40 AM

Dirk is gonna be a strong MVP-contender next season. Mark my words.

sike · 09-25-2005, 08:38 AM

its the leadership I'd be most excited about.....

Drbio · 09-25-2005, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: birdsanctuary
Great post DJ Mavs fan, you took the words right out of my mouth!

Doc, the whole point is that Dirk is unquestionably the best European player. And he's taking a team with some of most undersized undertalented guards and carrying them to the finals. Dirk's not going to get his a$$ handed to him tomorrow! He's gonna win Germany the championship.

Fair enough. Like I said, I am jazzed that he has stepped up his play.

Thespiralgoeson · 09-25-2005, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Arne
Dirk is gonna be a strong MVP-contender next season. Mark my words.

Well, he was third in MVP voting last season, so at this point, shouldn't we be a little surprised if he isn't a strong MVP canidate next season?

But Germany lost to Greece today... It's a damn shame, but I believe in Dirk Nowitzki. He's gonna be that much more motivated to win where it matters most, in the NBA.

MrCheerios · 09-25-2005, 07:40 PM

Germany lost to Greece. Who does Greece have? How did Dirk play?

Thespiralgoeson · 09-25-2005, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MrCheerios
Germany lost to Greece. Who does Greece have? How did Dirk play?

Dirk finished with 23 pts and 9 boards. He was 4/9 from 2pt range, but 1/8 from 3pt land. Ouch. Greece has no NBA players on their roster.

Bayliss · 09-25-2005, 07:54 PM

Germany strufggled mightily with the Greek gauards. Their guards were just to big for them.

Dirk didn't have many options either. He posted a few times... when the double would come, he'd kick out to a guy that bricked it. Germany would turn the ball over a lot. And Dirk was hounded a lot wherever he went. He had like 2 open looks the entire game.

Greece was just the more rounded team. They may not have an NBA player on their roster but they had size and depth.... and "inconsistency" in consistency. In other words... you can't gameplan them because no one is a dominant player for them. One game it will be a guard. The next, a big man, and so forth.

And when Germany couldn't shoot... they had no chance.

MrCheerios · 09-25-2005, 08:07 PM

What happened with Dirk's 3pt shooting? Did Greece have a taller guy on him? I'm assuming they double-teamed him even behind the line. How was his passing? His defense?

Bayliss · 09-25-2005, 08:12 PM

Quote:

What happened with Dirk's 3pt shooting? Did Greece have a taller guy on him? I'm assuming they double-teamed him even behind the line. How was his passing? His defense?

He had 1 good look at a 3. It came in the 3rd quarter. He missed it. Every other time it was a very contested 3.

His passing was okay but if players don't make shots... it doesn't matter. If a pass finds your teammate and the teammate can't score... was it really a good pass? (And on the flipside the other german players didn't set eah other up that often. Although Fermeling got a couple of dunks from a couple of good passes from a guard.)

His defense was okay too. He had a hellacious block on a guy. But Greece's passing was excel;lent so a lot of times Dirk was the guy "covering shooters" at the end of the play.