Random Musings during the Houston Game - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

aexchange · 11-22-2005, 09:37 PM

- Besides Yao who would easily start for the Mavs, is there any one in the current starting lineup of the Rockets that would make the 10 man rotation of the Mavs?

- Is it Jason Terry's goal to make every spare point guard look like an all world player?

- Looks like we got the Erick Dampier that we've all grown to know and loathe from the aliens who abducted him during the Detroit game. Is it time to start a "Dump Damp" campaign?

- Listening to Followill say, "Juwan Howard to Ryan Bowen with the no-look pass" made me laugh out loud. How depressing is that if your a Rockets fan?

- I think its time we start the "Fire Ortegal" petition. He is terrible.

Bookit · 11-22-2005, 09:43 PM

Ortegal isn't too bad. Followill and Ortegal will have better chemistry as the season goes on. Damp has the worst hands in basketball. Detroit had to be exhausted.

chumdawg · 11-22-2005, 09:43 PM

It takes a lot of energy out of Damp to play well. He just needs some time to work up a charge again.

Yeah, I think I've about heard enough of Ortegel. I actually thought he and Pinto had pretty good chemistry together, but I don't like him with Followil. I'd like to see someone like Hubert Davis get a shot.

TheMurph · 11-22-2005, 11:40 PM

Aex, nice observations...much appreciated.
I agree on the ortegal thing. I haven't liked him for quite awhile. As for Damp, well... I think him and Diop will make a nice center rotation. No, the Mavs won't get what they should out of the guy, but it could be worse. It's been worse year after year after year.

4cwebb · 11-23-2005, 12:35 AM

At least you still get to listen to Followill. I thought him to be too much of a cheerleader for the Mavs on radio, but would gladly welcome him back now that I'm subjected to listening to Cooperstein on the nba.com radio broadcasts.

Rhylan · 11-23-2005, 12:54 AM

Ortegal is cool! It's like an old buddy you're tired of watching ballgames with.. he keeps saying the SAME stuff over and over.. but he's your bud, so you learn to see the humor in it.

Ortegal rocks... learn it... live it.

Thespiralgoeson · 11-23-2005, 01:22 AM

I really don't get why everyone's so pissed off about Damp these days... The only really bad game he's had that I can think of is that Denver game... Other than that, I thought he's played well enough... Tonight, for example, he only scored two points, but still grabbed 9 boards and played pretty good defense on Yao, not to mention staying out of foul trouble... I swear, I really don't understand what people expect of him around here. It's like every game from him is absolutely piss poor to everyone and/or he's not showing any effort whatsoever unless he has a double double.

dude1394 · 11-23-2005, 02:00 AM

I also don't understand the Damp absolute hatred... He's getting ragged on like shawn did even when issues are not of his making. I kept hearing that all he has to do is block shots and rebound, not score, so why all the bitching when he doesn't score.

The swift dunk for example, folks whom you would think are mavs fans (and ben and skin on the ticket) are almost gleeful of it. It's pretty distasteful to me to see folks get on this type of bandwagon.

The mavs were able to bring in two great big rebounding, defensive centers into the game. Last years edition would have had dirk playing yao. Diop got three quick fouls just like damp, but in damps case he would have gotten excorciated for it.

Tonight haveing damp start and diop end was just fine...

Now Diop DID start hitting his FT's, that makes me want to start him, I can't stand players to miss fts.

Stitch Jones · 11-23-2005, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I also don't understand the Damp absolute hatred... He's getting ragged on like shawn did even when issues are not of his making. I kept hearing that all he has to do is block shots and rebound, not score, so why all the bitching when he doesn't score.

The swift dunk for example, folks whom you would think are mavs fans (and ben and skin on the ticket) are almost gleeful of it. It's pretty distasteful to me to see folks get on this type of bandwagon.

The mavs were able to bring in two great big rebounding, defensive centers into the game. Last years edition would have had dirk playing yao. Diop got three quick fouls just like damp, but in damps case he would have gotten excorciated for it.

Tonight haveing damp start and diop end was just fine...

Now Diop DID start hitting his FT's, that makes me want to start him, I can't stand players to miss fts.

I don't quite get it either. Yeah, he's had a horrible start but I don't think it's been because he's stupid or disinterested (though his facial expression seems to say otherwise). The guy is not nearly as lithe and nimble as Diop and tends to lumber around which makes him foul prone, but I think he's beginning to manage himself better. It seemed that he gave up a few layups early that he normally would have contested, in the interest of not picking up early fouls and allowing himself to get into the game a bit, and I think it paid off. Especially in the third where I think he played nice, agressive D on Yao. I mean, didn't Yao only have 2 second-half buckets? That wasn't all Diop.

Like Dude said, Diop picked up 3 in half the playing time...sometimes it's just like that. Diop's obviously a better shot-blocker so I like him at the end of games, but I think Damp's presence makes Diop much more effective. I think we're luck to have such a complimentary pair of centers after going so long without even one good one.

alby · 11-23-2005, 04:23 AM

Finley is gone, people need someone to criticize, it's only natural.

This is Dallas.

HexNBA · 11-23-2005, 04:35 AM

Quote:

At least you still get to listen to Followill. I thought him to be too much of a cheerleader for the Mavs on radio, but would gladly welcome him back now that I'm subjected to listening to Cooperstein on the nba.com radio broadcasts.

You think Cooperstein isnt any good? I must say I was really worried about Followill leaving because the Mavs announcer team is one of the few good ones in the NBA (I've listened to quite a few games through nba.com), but I've been really happy with Coop. He gets a bit overly excited at times over trivial points scored but other than that I have absolutely no complaints about how he announces the game.

jacktruth · 11-23-2005, 09:42 AM

Speaking of UPN cast, what is with the white chick that does the post-game interviews? She asks a question, doesn't listen to the answer and is constantly looking at her notes, which by the way are printed out. Why does she have that pen?

Is Harper annoyed with her too, or is he just worried about losing his job to this girl (probably both).

One thing, though. She must be pretty tall.

u2sarajevo · 11-23-2005, 10:00 AM

On the Dampier criticizing thing..... one word: Playoffs.

He didn't show up, and shown alot of the same this season. Diop looks promising. Put 2 and 2 together and you get criticism.

If it motivates him to play better, then good. But until I see it, I don't believe he can do it unless there is a carrot the size of a big paycheck at the end of the season dangling in front of him.

sike · 11-23-2005, 10:16 AM

I'm willing to give damp a bit more time this season...the last two games he done fine on the glass and overall Defense. He bullies yao and most centers for that matter. The guy just needs consistant minutes to get the jucies flowing...the rebound numbers have been fine the last couple games...14, 9 and both games played under 30 minutes.

JT is an excitable guy...I see so reason to take that away from him...personally I love it guys play to the fans the way he does.

diop it like its hot · 11-23-2005, 10:22 AM

As it's been said before, Damp is a really big human who happens to play basketball.
Diop is a real basketball player.

kg_veteran · 11-23-2005, 10:26 AM

Dampier is the whipping boy because there is always a whipping boy. I'm not saying he's played great this season, and I've griped about him on a few occasions, but overall I think he's giving you about what you expect. His per-game statistics don't look great, but he's rebounding at just about the same rate as last year (actually, a little bit better), and he's still shooting a good percentage. He needs to cut down on turnovers and foul trouble, but I think he and Diop are going to be a pretty darn good center combination as the season wears on.

Look at it this way: Do any of the Damp haters really think he can play worse?

sike · 11-23-2005, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Do any of the Damp haters really think he can play worse?

I'd rather open the damp haters eyes to what actually happens on the court that to placate them. They need to realize that Damp brings what this team needs on the defensive end: a giant plug in the middle who (if given the minutes) will grab you 11 rebs agame. Jiop is a wonderful change of pace, I love his hustle and flair for the dramatic...oh, and the swats are more than nice. All in all we are getting good stats from our center position, last night: 8pts, 11 rebs (6 O), 3 blocks...

dude1394 · 11-23-2005, 11:07 AM

I'm not talking about criticism perse, but I'm starting to hear a lot of media jokes at his expense, I'm hearing the rumblings of the knuckleheads at the areana griping because he doesn't get a rebound that there is no way he should get. Irrational criticism is starting to occur, which is not going to be good for anyone.

It's a lot like what you see on idiotic houston message boards when they gripe about how rotten Yao is.

aexchange · 11-23-2005, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I'm not talking about criticism perse, but I'm starting to hear a lot of media jokes at his expense, I'm hearing the rumblings of the knuckleheads at the areana griping because he doesn't get a rebound that there is no way he should get. Irrational criticism is starting to occur, which is not going to be good for anyone.

It's a lot like what you see on idiotic houston message boards when they gripe about how rotten Yao is.

we could always trade the 2nd best center in the game for yao.

vjz · 11-23-2005, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacktruth

Speaking of UPN cast, what is with the white chick that does the post-game interviews? She asks a question, doesn't listen to the answer and is constantly looking at her notes, which by the way are printed out. Why does she have that pen?

Is Harper annoyed with her too, or is he just worried about losing his job to this girl (probably both).

One thing, though. She must be pretty tall.

The post-game show is a joke. Harper adds nothing, absolutely nothing. And the interview... are you kidding me? Bob Ortegal was waaay better at that.

MavsN06 · 11-23-2005, 11:34 AM

Criticizing Damp will not help Damp. As Avery says over and over again his ego is easily hurt and besides as a few people said earlier he is doing exactly what he needs to do...clog up the paint. The one/two combination we have at the center spot is one of the best in the league (my opinion). Let just hope we can have this same production…if not better going into May and June.

As for Ortegal….he must go….sick of hearing “the pick and pop”. I would rather hear “the maverick money ball”

How about Diop’s block on Yao!!!!

kg_veteran · 11-23-2005, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Irrational criticism is starting to occur, which is not going to be good for anyone.

Shawn Bradley faced that type of criticism for years. You're right. It isn't good for anyone.

dude1394 · 11-23-2005, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Shawn Bradley faced that type of criticism for years. You're right. It isn't good for anyone.

We'll know we've arrived at the logical conclusion of this when the idiot Jr. Miller starts ragging on him.

He of the all-defense, all-of-the-time.. When he starts spouting off about how damp can't score, we'll know Damps the official Shawn replacement.

The media has been looking for one ever since finley left, someone they could rag on about their salary to make them feel a little puffed up, well Eric...It be you.

Big Lo · 11-23-2005, 12:09 PM

Damp will get criticized for all time based on his size, his perception of himself, and the fact that he makes a ton of money. And all of it is justified. To sit here an say that his performance this year hasn’t been abysmal is looking at the glass half full. He struggles to often with consistency in his game, and that’s what drives the staff to drink the pink stuff. Same with Shaun Bradley. At some point we get tired of settling for average, or a good game here or there; why should we just be content with a few spotty performances here and there? Of all the positions on this team, the 5 spot is definitely the most important that suring up that hole is what he was brought in here to do. But i come to think of it as this: realistically, just as with Shaun, it's become apparent that damp is what he is. We have to look at it as a center by committee, and on that level, I think the mavericks do well.

Individually, he's dreadful at times and I definitely contend that even in diops worst moments, he's still more productive than damp. How many times have we seen him fumble interior passes and rebounds? How often has he failed to finish around the basket? I think a few games he ago he even threw the ball up through the basket trying to convert a wide of dunk. Besides the offense, he is this teams stop gap once the ball penetrates the lane. Now this usually results in a foul, but more often than not, it results in a non contested shot. What we saw this season out of diop, and especially in last nights game, is what this teams has been desperately needing: athleticism, length, shot blocking, rebounding, and making strong moves to the basket. That’s something damp and Bradley weren't capable of doing on a consistent basis. For a guy whose best attribute to taking up space, he given way too much slack. He's average at best in most of what he does outside of a decent rebounding game or two on occasion. It just seems that he has a poor sense of awareness out on the court sometimes, and doesn’t exhibit a good instinct. Sometimes he just appears uninspired and listless. When hes not in foul trouble, he's goose egging the box scores. But don’t let the stats fool you; theres much more wrong than the stats can indicate.

And that’s not acceptable.

aexchange · 11-23-2005, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

We'll know we've arrived at the logical conclusion of this when the idiot Jr. Miller starts ragging on him.

He of the all-defense, all-of-the-time.. When he starts spouting off about how damp can't score, we'll know Damps the official Shawn replacement.

The media has been looking for one ever since finley left, someone they could rag on about their salary to make them feel a little puffed up, well Eric...It be you.

i dont rag on dampier for his salary. i rag on him for his absolute lack of effort. last night he did try, but it took an absolute arse chewing by AJ during a timeout to get him to try to play. how many passes did he fumble off his hands? how many times did our intensity pick up noticeably when diop came in the game?

i like damp. i think he brings some good qualities to the team, i just wish he'd bring it more than 1 out of every 4 or 5 games.

uberfan · 11-23-2005, 12:31 PM

Besides Yao (and assuming you left TMac off referring to last night's starting lineup)?

Well, if Juwan Howard, Mutumbo, Derek Andersen, and Ryan Bowen were on the Mavs roster instead of who we currently have they would all be in the 10 rotation.

I am very happy with our center rotation and hope DJ adds more to it as the season progresses.

I like our guard rotation at present. JET, Harris, and MD rotation is what I had hoped to see at some point in the season. Happy that it is sooner rather than later.

I would have to say I even like our forward rotation when all are healthy.

In short, I like our team as is. Nice balance of still young vets (assumes Christie is gone and Stack back in a couple of weeks) and promising youth who contribute when on the court.

I even like our broadcast rotation as is on TV and Radio.

I guess I am a completely happy Mavs fan for the first time in a long time, because I not only see what is but what is coming as this group stays and plays together this year.

Eman · 11-23-2005, 12:35 PM

Did you know?

Dampier is ranked 7th in the NBA in Rebounds per 48 minutes.......ahead of

Chris Bosh
Alonzo mourning
Shawn marion
Jamal Magloire
Andrew Bogut
Ben Wallace
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Zaza Pachulia
Yao Ming
Jermaine Oneal
Emeka Okufor
Nazr Mohammed
KEvin Garnett
Elton Brand
Kurt Thomas
Chris Weber ........to name a few......

Only Marcus Camby, Dwight Howard, Michael Sweetney, Tim Duncan and Tyson Chandler are ahead with sufficient minutes (only 3 centers).

Didn't we get Damp for his REBOUNDING and Defense?

Though he needs to cut down on turnovers (he will, he didn't turn it over that much last year), and he needs to stay out of foul trouble to get more minutes, He's not playing as bad as some say.

And now we have someone else to come in if he gets in foul trouble, unlike years past.

dude1394 · 11-23-2005, 12:36 PM

Again I don't have an issue with criticizing dampier for his play, I really don't. What I have an issue with is that it's beginning to go over the top... This post is a case in point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Lo

Individually, he's dreadful at times and I definitely contend that even in diops worst moments, he's still more productive than damp. How many times have we seen him fumble interior passes and rebounds?

Passes yea, he's definitely been bad there, but rebounds not at all. He gets most of the rebounds that comes his way, often in very tough traffic against the teams other starting center.

Quote:

How often has he failed to finish around the basket? I think a few games he ago he even threw the ball up through the basket trying to convert a wide of dunk.

He could do what diop does instead and not even TRY to make a basket, would that be better? From this rant and for Damps sake I guess so. But then he would be ragged on because he DIDN'T try to power it up. Even last night he tried to power it home against Yao and Yao picked up another foul. I'm crazy about Diop, but let's be honest he isn't even attempting to score out there, AT ALL. If that's what we want fine, maybe damp should just go that route.

Quote:

Besides the offense, he is this teams stop gap once the ball penetrates the lane. Now this usually results in a foul, but more often than not, it results in a non contested shot.

This is also over the top. Damp hasn't even been getting fouls during what you would call play at the rim, but in picks, sealing moves, etc. And he's contested plenty of shots. If you want to see someone not contest shots watch Yao last night in the 4th.

Quote:

What we saw this season out of diop, and especially in last nights game, is what this teams has been desperately needing: athleticism, length, shot blocking, rebounding, and making strong moves to the basket.

WHAT strong moves to the basket from Diop are you talking about? Last night for example Diop was getting orebounds and wasn't even attempting to put it back in.

dude1394 · 11-23-2005, 12:38 PM

One more note on Damp however.. If Diop starts making his free throws which he seemed to do last night, and he looks like he has a pretty decent shot, damp may never see the end of another game.

He will have to deal with that for sure.

TheMurph · 11-23-2005, 12:45 PM

I have been a bit disappointed with Damp so far this year..but not to the extent of many around the area. The Mavs are going to need his contributions. His inability to catch a pass is frustrating. His quick foul troubles are frustrating..but less so because Diop is backing him up now. But, the Mavs need his contributions. They need two centers to provide solid numbers as a whole because they don't have one center that can consistently do that on their own.

As for the media coverage...what do you expect? Greggo crucified Dirk for his bad game against Utah saying that superstars don't have games like that and then totally ignored it when Tim Duncan had a worse game just a couple of days later. The DFW sports media as a whole is pathetic when it comes to basketball intelligence.

alby · 11-23-2005, 12:57 PM

The media is there to stir up conversation and have fans like us discuss their every words, they are doing their jobs.

As for Diop, I love the guy but there's no way he could be doing what he's doing without Dampier IMO. Together, they form an acceptable tandem at the 5 position. Unexpectedly, we are now pretty thin at the 2 position if DC retires and Stack is more injured than originally thought.

dude1394 · 11-23-2005, 12:57 PM

Murph...I really agree with you about Greggo and Rhiner and the ticket in general. I really haven't listened to them at all in a long time.

One thing that I became dissappointed in was the Ben and Skin show after last nights game. For guys who are in the building and get Mavs players on after the game, the way they were belittling Dampier and just making fun of him pissed me off.

It would be interesting for the rest of the mavs to tell them to shove it the next time they want an interview if they are going to so unfairly criticise a team-mate.

Big Lo · 11-23-2005, 12:58 PM

am i the only person that thinks the per 48 stat line is overrated?But again i say, this teams major weakness is not rebounding, its interior defense.

TheMurph · 11-23-2005, 12:58 PM

Unfortunately, Ben and Skin are probably the best option in the metroxplex when it comes to Mavs sports talk. They are infinitely better than what ESPN radio throws out there.

TheMurph · 11-23-2005, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Lo

am i the only person that thinks the per 48 stat line is overrated?But again i say, this teams major weakness is not rebounding, its interior defense.

Sure, the per 48 minute stat is overrated by some. But, I wouldn't agree that this team's major weakness is interior defense. I would lean much more towards their inability to consistently distribute the ball at an acceptable level.

alby · 11-23-2005, 01:02 PM

that's definitely my biggest gripe, without looking up the statistics, I'm sure our assists per game as a team is pretty embarassing.

dude1394 · 11-23-2005, 01:25 PM

Well last night wasn't interior defense, as ben and skin correctly pointed out, it was our perimeter defense letting the houston guards (devin on head in particular) get into the lane at will.

alby · 11-23-2005, 01:27 PM

a lot of that is when we're blitzing the pick and rolls (mostly with Dirk) and he turns his back while running back to his original man losing sight of the player with the ball essentially setting a pick on his own man (mostly Terry) which allows easy access into the lane.

dude1394 · 11-23-2005, 01:56 PM

Speaking of last night. Does anyone else get the heebee jeebees when you see dirk try to throw a pass longer than the width of the basketball court, especially off the dribble.

He can throw some passes WAY out in left field out there. Some are so bad it's just hilarious.

Stitch Jones · 11-23-2005, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

i dont rag on dampier for his salary. i rag on him for his absolute lack of effort. last night he did try, but it took an absolute arse chewing by AJ during a timeout to get him to try to play. how many passes did he fumble off his hands? how many times did our intensity pick up noticeably when diop came in the game?

i like damp. i think he brings some good qualities to the team, i just wish he'd bring it more than 1 out of every 4 or 5 games.

Disagree. I've seen no lack of effort on Damp's part. To the contrary, I believe some of the problems he's had in getting early fouls and even fumbling the ball are due to the fact that the guys trying too hard. Too hard to block every shot...too hard to hold on the rock. Now, his facial expression belies this very idea, but I think if the guy would just relax and let the game come to him, he'd be alright.

I think the defensive intensity picks up when Diop comes in because quite simply, he's out playin Damp right now, but let's not get carried away, Diop only logged 14 min.