The official "Start a Center" Thread - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Pongo · 04-23-2007, 06:43 AM

Why oh why does the 67 W team adjust to the 42 W squad? Damp played a whopping 2 (TWO) minutes yesterday... and grabbed 3 boards.

Dirk is NOT a natural Center. Damp IS. Dirk had -20 night, according to http://www.popcornmachine.net/cgi-bi...22&game=GSWDAL
The Warriors outscored Dallas by TWENTY points when Dirk was on the floor. That's a team low. Meanwhile, Desagana freakin' Diop had the highest +/- on the team with +8.

Don't get me wrong, I thought George played a decent game, but he's had the second lowest +/-
score.

So please Avery... start a Center.

aexchange · 04-23-2007, 06:53 AM

Dirk was absolutely abysmal last night. The fact that Avery was playing him at the 5 spot was the dumbest thing Avery has done in his tenure here as a coach.

We were significantly better with Diop and Dampier on the floor and it wasn't even close. Our spacing on the offensive end was great, and our ability to control the boards also allowed us to play well.

I normally don't listen to anything Barkley has to say, but he hit this one right on the head. We won 67 games and we change our starting lineup to match up with a 42 win team.

Brilliant, just brilliant.

mqywaaah · 04-23-2007, 07:33 AM

Well... I hope Avery knows this. Or is it part of his "gameplan"?

left texas · 04-23-2007, 07:50 AM

I could not get on the board last night and this tread is exactly what was going through my mind. We took the deepest bench in the league and turned into a non issue. This team will not win playing Nellie ball. We have to exert our will on them. I have faith that this coach and this team learned a valuable lesson last night...go with what got you here.

We just gave the Warriors what they needed, confidence that the regular season against the Mavs was not a fluke. I now hope this team responds to this lost like it did to the few that we had during the season.

Last night a team hyping a mvp, coach of the year, one of the best 6th men in the leauge was a joke. Now let's go out and play Mavericks basketball!!

jthig32 · 04-23-2007, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aexchange

Dirk was absolutely abysmal last night. The fact that Avery was playing him at the 5 spot was the dumbest thing Avery has done in his tenure here as a coach.

We were significantly better with Diop and Dampier on the floor and it wasn't even close. Our spacing on the offensive end was great, and our ability to control the boards also allowed us to play well.

I normally don't listen to anything Barkley has to say, but he hit this one right on the head. We won 67 games and we change our starting lineup to match up with a 42 win team.

Brilliant, just brilliant.

Exactley. People keep citing how good they think our defense was as a reason that small ball worked, and I keep trying to point out tha small ball killed our offense.

I realize people don't normally associate Damp/Diop with offense, but you can not tell me they looked 10000000 times better on offense when Diop was in the game, even if Dirk was out. That's because their spacing was so much better.

START A CENTER AVERY!

mattyd · 04-23-2007, 08:22 AM

I don't care who it is - Damp, Diop, or Willis - start a center and clog the middle.

Lor20 · 04-23-2007, 08:23 AM

you cant expect a team that hasnt played like that for the season (well - maybe for an hour combined) to play playoff grade basketball. sure - the warriors are better than their 8th seed shows (because of those 8 player trade - their record was :
first 10 games:7-3
11-20: 3-7
21-30: 5-5
31-40: 4-6 - then the trade at 19-21
41-50: 4-6
51-60: 3-7
61-70: 7-3
71-80: 7-3
81-82 2-0
if you just take the stats from say 2 weeks after the trade to today GS went from
0.450 before to 0.600 after it- since march 5th they only lost 5 out of 22.
anyways - i agree that the mavs should force the warriors to play their game instead of playing their game.

DavidDaMonkey · 04-23-2007, 08:40 AM

It reminds me of one of my favorite quotes -- "Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

"Never play small ball with Nellie, he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience"

DubOverdose · 04-23-2007, 08:56 AM

I was shocked that we changed our lineup. We played our best last night with 4 smalls and Diop on the floor....yes that's with Dirk on the bench. I really want to see Damp in the lineup with Dirk.

Dtownsfinest · 04-23-2007, 09:07 AM

AJ pulled a Don Nelson last night while Nellie didn't pull his own shit. Nellie was the guy who use to play to the other teams advantages. Now AJ is playing to Nellie's. Dampier can't keep up with the run and gun game but still it doesn't excuse the fact that he needs to be getting atleast 20 minutes a night. That's all I ask. Not 48 minutes. If Damp can't keep up with the team in 20 minutes of play then we have a problem.

Silk Smoov · 04-23-2007, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pongo

Why oh why does the 67 W team adjust to the 42 W squad? Damp played a whopping 2 (TWO) minutes yesterday... and grabbed 3 boards.

Dirk is NOT a natural Center. Damp IS. Dirk had -20 night, according to http://www.popcornmachine.net/cgi-bi...22&game=GSWDAL
The Warriors outscored Dallas by TWENTY points when Dirk was on the floor. That's a team low. Meanwhile, Desagana freakin' Diop had the highest +/- on the team with +8.

Don't get me wrong, I thought George played a decent game, but he's had the second lowest +/-
score.

So please Avery... start a Center.

I was going to start the same exact thread, until I read through to find this topic b4 I posted about it.

The Mavs fail victim to the ole last yr Spurs theory. If you can't beat them, then join them. The Mavs have had problems beating GS because GS has forced our coaching staff to not give minutes to our centers this year against GS. We have played small ball all year long against GS. Is it NOT crystal clear that GS is a better team with small ball, because they are not really small, when they play Small ball.

Last night, when the Mavs announced the starting line-up, all I could think about was the Spurs last yr against the Mavs in the playoffs. Instead of SA going to their strength with a true center, they opt to play small ball to try to stop Harris. So, 2night, Avery decided the same thing, and his fate was the EXACT same.

There are two problems here, and one of the problems most here won't like. First problem, is that our coaching staff made a dumb move to play small. Our strength is clogging the middle with Damp/Diop, getting of offensive/defensive boards with them, controlling the paint with them, and proper spacing because of picks by our centers.

2nd problem:

This is not going to sound good, but I truly feel this is the biggest problem.

D---I----R---K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, Dirk creates match-up problems, but Dirk is guardable with the right personnel. If an opponent is pretty good, and has a player like Udonis,Marion,Bell,JRich,S.Jackson,Battier type of player, then the Mavs are beatable, because Dirk does NOT have the Basketball I.Q. to solve the equation with this type of player guarding him.

I question Dirk's heart when times get tough when players like these listed above are guarding him. He plays exactly into their hands EVERYTIME. Bowen used to be the #1 player to guard Dirk, but now that Bowen is older and not the same player, now the Spurs dont have an answer for Dirk, so that is why Spurs cant beat the Mavs.

Suns have two players that can guard Dirk, so that is why the Suns gives us fits. Suns problem is that they cant guard any other player for the Mavs. GS has three players that can guard Dirk (JRich,Jackson,Harrington).

There is a reason that the Mavs have the 3rd slowest pace. That is their style plain and simple. Our centers control the games speed, and this is our strength.

Lastly, this game was turned into a street ball game. This game was about who had the best street ballers on the floor. The answer is simple. GS is full of street ballers. In street ball, you have alot of one on one, trash talking, mental edges with tough talk/play, and no centers allowed. When the game got tougher, GS punched the Mavs in the mouth, and the Mavs took it w/o a fight. Mavs cant win a street ball game against GS. The Mavs are outmanned. Once this game turned into that, Dirk was nowhere to be found. Jackson and company played mind games all night with Dirk. See, this is the time that true Superstars are at their best. Hate to say it, but this is a game that Kobe/Wade would die for.

See this is the real game that a true center would kill for as well, because they would tell the little guys to not bring it in the paint, and would dominate to kill all that trash talking. To me, this is DAMP/DIOP!!!!! Let them control the game, and then Dirk finish them off.

We left this game for Dirk to be our enforcer for a street ball game..Is this the answer??? HELL NO!!!!!!!!!

I would mention Howard/Terry but they ain't worth mentioning, because it was up to them to lead after Dirk decided to not lead.

Dirkadirkastan · 04-23-2007, 09:14 AM

Streetball. Yeah that's what it looked like late in the game when they were jacking up threes and the other nine guys were just standing around. It looked like everyone cared about as much as during the all star game.

bradleywillcrushyou44 · 04-23-2007, 09:33 AM

we need a center out there, not only does our defense look a lot better but, they set all the screens for our offense, imagine how easily harris could get to the rim with a damp screen against this team, he was practically doing a layup drill without one...

Bathouse Bear · 04-23-2007, 09:49 AM

Every time Diop was out of the game the lane was wide open and Golden State scored at will.

It was disgusting to watch.

I put this loss on Avery and Dirk. Dirk needs to not play like a vagina if we want to win this series.

Lets Dominate the Boards and Dominate the paint thats how you defeat small ball teams.

Charles Barkley is exactly right. You wouldn't see the Pistons or Spurs changing their starting lineup to a small lineup to matchup with a 42 win team.

Lor20 · 04-23-2007, 10:27 AM

they arent really a 42 win team since half the team got traded in january - if you just take the stats from after they got comfortable they would have prolly gotten about 50-55 wins. we know that nellie ball can bring teams into playoffs and with this roster he has almost the perfect players for that. I totally agree though - by changing your lineup you take out the rhythm, more than half the plays your team knows well both offensively and defensively and you also killed dirks game - we all know he isnt that much of a paint player - he shoots while in motion to the basket, not away from it(not counting the fadeaways but his motion before lifting off is towards the basket aswell, so im not surprised he missed a ton of shots.
aside from that - dirk being double and triple teamed should have opened a lot of open shopts - but they didnt fall either. just horrible shooting everywhere. maybe not having the normal morning shootaround kinda sucked too (floor was apparently wet from condensation -kinda embarrassing for the maintenance of an arena that has a playoff game that day).
you might call it playing into the warriors cards or something - but i think the main man guilty for this loss is avery. those mindgames probably confused his players more than the warriors - if you win 67 games you have to show confidence - changing your lineup shows you dont think you can beat them normally and thats not exactly a sign you should send to your players.

dirt_dobber · 04-23-2007, 10:35 AM

I dislike the TNT trio of Barkly, Jet, Magic, but all three of them were really
critizing Avery for starting small. Say what you will abot Charles and Magic but
as Hall of Fame'rs they've earned the right to offer such an opinion.

They pointed out that Phoenix, Detroit, Spurs and others don't alter their lineup
and the Mavs as a 67 win team should have stayed with what got us to the playoffs.

I am very frustrated with our game plan.

Dirkadirkastan · 04-23-2007, 10:36 AM

I still don't understand all the hate on the TNT guys here. I think they're funny.

kg_veteran · 04-23-2007, 10:47 AM

I don't even have to read the posts in this thread to co-sign.

Brilliant post, aex.

mavsjunkie · 04-23-2007, 10:55 AM

If we start a center, then we need to go to him down low and he has to atleast try to score. We MUST get some of there down low guys in foul trouble.

warrior.heart · 04-23-2007, 11:00 AM

Is this really a thread suggesting Dampier start?! Really? Wow! Get ready for a blowout and going on the road down 0-2.

Dtownsfinest · 04-23-2007, 11:03 AM

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I still don't understand all the hate on the TNT guys here. I think they're funny.

Its because they don't ride the coattails of the Mavs. They've been on us for years so i'm use to their criticism of the Mavs. You getpassed that then you can enjoy their show. Definately the best sports show on TV for me anyway. The others are far too boring.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 04-23-2007, 11:08 AM

I think they should start Damp. You may give up a few fast break points, sure. But they won't be driving the lane on us the whole game like Game 1. Also offense rebounds would be huge in favor of us. We don't need to play their game we need to make them play ours.

Lor20 · 04-23-2007, 11:09 AM

i dont see the big downside of playing damp - i mean sure they prolly get a few more layups but our perimeter game is better and offensively we'd be SO much better because damp, howard and dirk would get probably half the boards on the offensive side - meaning the points per possession ratio would go up a LOT and then the warriors can get more layups and it wont matter because we'd score on almost every possession - even if we shoot only 40%

LonghornDub · 04-23-2007, 11:10 AM

I'm in for this as well. If nothing else but to try it.

Though, I think if we just should a reasonable percentage--not even good,b ut just reasonable , like 41 or 42%, we can play enough defense with the small lineup to beat these guys.

SeattleMavsFan · 04-23-2007, 11:14 AM

i'd have to agree. the tnt guys are funny and entertaining. they just don't like the Mavs. however, after last nights game, I don't blame them. When Magic or Reggie is on their though, they are good. It's just Chareles and Kenny that are dumb asses sometimes.

Lor20 · 04-23-2007, 11:27 AM

in the 2:21 damp was in the game noone scored, but the mavs had 3 possessions and got 5 offensive rebounds (just managed to shoot 0-8 somehow)and nowitzki stole 2 balls and got 2 rebounds while the mavs only allowed 2 layup attempts in the last 3 seconds.
in the 16 mins diop was in the mavs went 33-25.
Does anyone really need more arguments why playing a big 5 isnt gonna kill us?

Flacolaco · 04-23-2007, 11:57 AM

bernardos70 · 04-23-2007, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrior.heart

Is this really a thread suggesting Dampier start?! Really? Wow! Get ready for a blowout and going on the road down 0-2.

This would not be the first time this specific team had to face an 0-2 start going on the road. That is in fact what we must do, play a center. You live and die by the way you play.

Silk Smoov · 04-23-2007, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Flacolaco again.

jthig32 · 04-23-2007, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

Now see, I make what I think is a funny sig, and you have to go and break out the PS skills on me.

Darn you.

Very nice, sir.

Flacolaco · 04-23-2007, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Now see, I make what I think is a funny sig, and you have to go and break out the PS skills on me.

Darn you.

Very nice, sir.

Smaller signature size?

Silk Smoov · 04-23-2007, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Now see, I make what I think is a funny sig, and you have to go and break out the PS skills on me.

Darn you.

Very nice, sir.

Just a thought, but was Damp punished for breaking a curfew last night? We all know he was out late the other night, because we have a confirmation from a Mavs regular on this issue.

Dirkenstien · 04-23-2007, 12:24 PM

Our guys fought hard but changing the lineup was just too much to handle. When we had our centers out there we were imposing our will on them; and when we didn't, they had the advantage.

Also, I'm extremely dissapointed with Dirk. I thought he facilitated the ball very well but sometimes you just need your star player to carry the load and make a freeking play.

The Crippler · 04-23-2007, 12:25 PM

no Center = no screens, and that = no offensive flow for this Maverick team.
no Center = no intimidation on defense which = penetration at will.

YOU HAVE TO PLAY A DARNED CENTER AVERY! It's not that hard. If you are scared of the Warriors, you need to quit because you are already beat.

Flacolaco · 04-23-2007, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Crippler

penetration at will.
.

That's what she said

(also as a very minor side note, I agree with your post)

EricaLubarsky · 04-23-2007, 12:33 PM

playoffs are a game of strategy and great adjustments between each game. Teams can completely retool themselves for each and every game. I have faith that Avery will find a way to put on an asskicking.

globemaster · 04-23-2007, 12:47 PM

We've gotta start Damp. He had a great year and deserves it. I'm not sure what Avery is thinking.

go mavs

Silk Smoov · 04-23-2007, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

playoffs are a game of strategy and great adjustments between each game. Teams can completely retool themselves for each and every game. I have faith that Avery will find a way to put on an asskicking.

I have a feeling that Nellie will tank Game 2 in order for GS to get some rest for the home games. This is classic Nellie. I dont see GS putting up much fight on Wednesday. If GS does not put up a fight, then this is exactly why Nellis has no rings. Game 2 is the time for GS to drive a stake in the Mavs heart. GS should make Game 2 their last stand and play as such....Game 2 should also be the Mavs last stand as well. I think the 2 most important games in this series now is Game 2 and 4..

antoinewalker · 04-23-2007, 01:22 PM

"I laughed when they said they would play a big center," Nelson said.

mavsfan1000 · 04-23-2007, 01:35 PM

If Dampier starts, prepare for a record amount of 3 point makes for the Warrior. Dirk can't guard Stephen Jackson and Dampier can't guard Al Harrington. Golden State's lineup makes it so the center is useless on defense as the center can't be in the middle. He has to guard the 3 point line. The difference from this Nellie team and the past Nellie teams as this team is so athletic that it is just a nightmare to guard without going small. A small lineup gives Dallas a chance to defend Golden State though they aren't used to it. My suggestion is for Dallas to punish Golden State in the same way by having Harrington have to stay with Dirk at the 3 point line and have Harris and Howard drive to the basket. Stackhouse though if he wants to be effective should use his post up ability but expect a double team which could give Dirk, Terry, Howard, and George a lot of open shots. The key is to spread the floor and once Golden State doubles than find the open shooter. Using Dirk as a role player might be the key to this series as Dirk is a big threat at the 3 point line.