Can we get Butler - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

AxdemxO · 05-01-2008, 11:43 AM

I dont see any reason why The Wiz would want to trade him. I have seen a lot of posts on Maggette and hes someone that I would like to see in a Mavs uniform, But I think Butler would be a great fit here too..Hes more of a SF, but he can play the 2.

Howard for Butler almost works..I guess we would have to throw in a lil something to sweeten it up a lil. I dont see a reason to completely blow it up. Just need some hard working guys and they dont get much better then Butler.

** def. resign Wright and I think he could be a huge contributor next year if given the time at the 2 or 3. Lue could be a great back up too if we decide not to do anything else.

Damp/ ?
Dirk/ Bass
Butler/ Wright
Jet/ Wright/ ?
Kidd/ Lue/ ?

This is something that works...but NO WAY the Wiz do it
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/feature...~6~6&te=&cash=

soo I think trying it strait up with some added stuff is better

DelNegro · 05-01-2008, 12:19 PM

The Wiz won't part with Butler, but I can see them wanting to sign and trade Gilbert Arenas off somewhere else. Not sure what they'd be interested in Howard though if they've already got Butler. Also not really sure the Mavs would be better off adding a chucker like Arenas to a squad that is already short on guys who need the ball in their hands to contribute.

cowdog80 · 05-01-2008, 01:30 PM

With the way they played after losing Arenas, it looks like Washington is going to move forward with Butler as the centerpiece of their franchise (as they should).

Probably looking at Howard + a lot of something to even get the Wizards to stop laughing.

Let's put it like this. Last night, in a game where the supporting casts didn't do much, it was Butler outplaying Lebron that made the difference in that game. Now, if Howard were given 100 opportunities to outplay Lebron and lead his team to victory, how many times do you think he would do so? 0?

ghazi · 05-01-2008, 05:12 PM

4

Robillion · 05-01-2008, 07:43 PM

cowdog, you could ask that question for any player not named Kobe Bryant or Chris Paul and the number would be pretty low...

Now.. I would of course love Butler, or Arenas here. Either would be amazing, but neither could be attained by us.. unless we gave them a lot more than just Howard. ... by the way, if if was for Arenas, that would be funny to see Howard coming off the bench for the Wizards..

cowdog80 · 05-02-2008, 10:50 AM

that's true, but the answer for Butler right now is at least 1 - that's my point.

DirkFTW · 05-02-2008, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowdog80

Now, if Howard were given 100 opportunities to outplay Lebron and lead his team to victory, how many times do you think he would do so? 0?

-5

alby · 05-02-2008, 11:31 AM

I consider Caron an untouchable

sbibi · 05-02-2008, 08:36 PM

i think this trade would work better... http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/3/

Dallas gets the backup center that they need in Thomas, but his injuries would worry me a little bit. DeShawn Stevenson would be good lift off the bench. Antonio Daniels is an energetic combo guard off the bench...

Washington gets rid of Thomas who is injury-prone. I think the x-factor from a Wizards' standpoint is Jason Terry. They get a quality all-around player in howard. I think Howard would be a good fit with Arenas.

Dallas would look like this:

Damp/ Thomas?
Dirk/ Bass
Butler/ Stevenson/ George
Wright/ Stevenson/ Daniels/ Jones
Kidd/ Daniels/ Lue/

While Washington looks like this:

Haywood/ Songaila?
Jamison/ Blatche
Howard/ Stack
Terry/ Stack/Arenas
Arenas/ Young/ Terry

ghazi · 05-02-2008, 09:10 PM

i dont like wright in the starting lineup

AxdemxO · 05-02-2008, 10:01 PM

I like him there just fine
I think we should keep hims as a back up next year and work him into
starting

if we dont make moves

ghazi · 05-02-2008, 10:16 PM

like him based on what though... we didn't see enough of him this year to conclude he'd be a good starting 2... or did we O!_O!_!O

cowdog80 · 05-02-2008, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbibi

i think this trade would work better... http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/3/

Dallas gets the backup center that they need in Thomas, but his injuries would worry me a little bit. DeShawn Stevenson would be good lift off the bench. Antonio Daniels is an energetic combo guard off the bench...

Washington gets rid of Thomas who is injury-prone. I think the x-factor from a Wizards' standpoint is Jason Terry. They get a quality all-around player in howard. I think Howard would be a good fit with Arenas.

Dallas would look like this:

Damp/ Thomas?
Dirk/ Bass
Butler/ Stevenson/ George
Wright/ Stevenson/ Daniels/ Jones
Kidd/ Daniels/ Lue/

While Washington looks like this:

Haywood/ Songaila?
Jamison/ Blatche
Howard/ Stack
Terry/ Stack/Arenas
Arenas/ Young/ Terry

I still don't see. Washington is giving up their franchise player + 2 pretty decent role players in that deal.

Howard is a pretty decent all-around player. But ask yourself this, when most Mavs fans WANT him to be moved, how bad do you think Washington wants him?

Terry + Stack are good players whose value is greatly diminished thanks to the size of their contracts.

Butler is probably the second best player on a championship team, but you can still build a pretty solid team around him.

Build your team around Howard and your lottery bound.

The only way Butler comes to Dallas is if the Mavs are willing to move Dirk, and then the deal becomes skewed in the other direction. These two teams are just a bad match, at least with the players discussed.

sbibi · 05-02-2008, 10:20 PM

I've seen wright getting more minutes when he was New Jersey and i thought he did just fine. His defense was pretty decent, he slashed more often than he does in Dallas, and he occasionally hits the three. I think he has the ability to slip into the starting lineup after he gets more minutes with this team. I believe that he'll make a big difference for this team when he gets minutes now that Avery is gone.

sbibi · 05-02-2008, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowdog80

I still don't see. Washington is giving up their franchise player + 2 pretty decent role players in that deal.

Howard is a pretty decent all-around player. But ask yourself this, when most Mavs fans WANT him to be moved, how bad do you think Washington wants him?

Terry + Stack are good players whose value is greatly diminished thanks to the size of their contracts.

Butler is probably the second best player on a championship team, but you can still build a pretty solid team around him.

Build your team around Howard and your lottery bound.

The only way Butler comes to Dallas is if the Mavs are willing to move Dirk, and then the deal becomes skewed in the other direction. These two teams are just a bad match, at least with the players discussed.

I agree with you on most of the things that you just said. But as I said from a Wizards' perspective, I think Howard can bring more to the table than Butler does and he would fit the style of the Wizards because of the fact that he's more of a slasher than Butler is. That's just what I think though, I may be wrong.

cowdog80 · 05-02-2008, 10:33 PM

Butler's not really a slasher in the classic sense of the word. He's not as quick as Howard. However, he's so strong, he gets himself just as many easy buckets. He's also a better passer than JHo, with Josh providing better defense.

However, the fact that Butler does not disappear in the 4th quarter of games makes the disparity between these two players much greater than the numbers would indicate.

Robillion · 05-02-2008, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbibi

I agree with you on most of the things that you just said. But as I said from a Wizards' perspective, I think Howard can bring more to the table than Butler does and he would fit the style of the Wizards because of the fact that he's more of a slasher than Butler is. That's just what I think though, I may be wrong.

Have you watched a Mavericks or Wizards game this season?.. I would actually characterize Butler as a slasher over Howard this season. And when people talk about more "all around player".. Butler wins there as well this season. Last season different story. ... bottom line, after this season with Butler and Jaimeson doing so well together, they are not giving Butler up for Howard.. they are not giving him up unless it is for a legitimate #1 option/franchise player.... Now Gilbert Arenas, that's another story. He doesnt fit that team anymore, and knows it.. I see him leaving or being moved within the next 1-2 years. Id give them J Ho for Gilbert Arenas, and they just may take it.

cowdog80 · 05-02-2008, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robillion

Have you watched a Mavericks or Wizards game this season?.. I would actually characterize Butler as a slasher over Howard this season. And when people talk about more "all around player".. Butler wins there as well this season. Last season different story. ... bottom line, after this season with Butler and Jaimeson doing so well together, they are not giving Butler up for Howard.. they are not giving him up unless it is for a legitimate #1 option/franchise player.... Now Gilbert Arenas, that's another story. He doesnt fit that team anymore, and knows it.. I see him leaving or being moved within the next 1-2 years. Id give them J Ho for Gilbert Arenas, and they just may take it.

I'm going to disagree on Arenas as well (or maybe I'm just argumentative today

.

The guy is a chucker in every sense of the word. You don't want somebody taking that many shots away from Dirk.

Arenas is a great player for a borderline playoff team because he can win some games against good competition almost by himself. But he just dominates the ball too much for any team serious about title.

The Wiz tried taking him off the ball in a backcourt with Daniels to help rectify this. But - once he gets it - the ball tended stop moving. Pass to Arenas and you'll never see the ball again.

Robillion · 05-03-2008, 12:33 AM

so you are going on record as saying you would rather have Howard than Arenas?... If they would take Howard for Arenas I take him almost solely on the fact that he would be easier to trade than Howard.... and if we wanted to play him, when he is healthy, it would not be a bad thing to have another star on the team that could take over a game. Yeah Dirk is super efficient, but the critics may not be wrong when they say that he would probably be more comfortable playing robin...

cowdog80 · 05-03-2008, 10:44 AM

The problem is that Arenas is going to try to take over every game, even the ones where Dirk is hot and he is not.

I'm not a big Howard fan, but I do think he fits into a championship team more than Arenas would. Even as his offense fades in as the game gets on the line, he still does do other things that can help you win. Arenas is totally dependent on his shot falling (and over the past 6 years, he's only shot over 43.1% once) to be of any value to a team.

alby · 05-03-2008, 11:20 AM

I'm fine with Josh Howard if he is the 3rd or 4th option.

foglemann · 05-03-2008, 11:45 AM

Give me Arenas anyway we can get him, sans Dirk. Arenas is the real deal. Just because he was hurt this year shouldn't blind you by how great he's been ever since he's come in the league. Josh is a role player, Arenas is a leading scorer in the NBA canidate. No comparison, the only way we get him is give them Kidd in a sign and trade.

jthig32 · 05-03-2008, 11:45 AM

Just say no to Gilbert Arenas.

cowdog80 · 05-03-2008, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foglemann

Give me Arenas anyway we can get him, sans Dirk. Arenas is the real deal. Just because he was hurt this year shouldn't blind you by how great he's been ever since he's come in the league. Josh is a role player, Arenas is a leading scorer in the NBA canidate. No comparison, the only way we get him is give them Kidd in a sign and trade.

Arenas needs A LOT of shots to get his points and be a leading scorer. It doesn't do much good to upgrade the backcourt scoring by 15 ppg if you're lowering the scoring around the rest of the team by 20 ppg.

I'm not blind to his greatness because he's not great. He's been very good at times, but he's not great.

horse900703 · 05-10-2008, 07:11 AM

Yes! Butler is good

frozenking · 05-10-2008, 07:21 PM

we hav to get rid of Jet terry now, not many teams can succeed with the 2 pg system

cowdog80 · 05-11-2008, 09:30 PM

i don't think it's the two PG system that's so much a problem. It's debatable as to whether Jet is a true point anyways. He can easily function as an undersized, good-handling, shoot-first two guard.

The problem is that Kidd + Terry is a terrible defensive backcourt. Terry's not embarrassingly bad, but when he's considered the perimeter defensive stopper, that means you've got problems.

ghazi · 05-11-2008, 10:13 PM

Chris Paul makes every defender look bad. Kidd is no slouch on defense, and is a smart ballhawk (I think...).

BGMaverick9 · 05-11-2008, 10:36 PM

It's a bad backcourt b/c you can't count on Jet to give you something defensively. It puts Kidd in a tough spot, he has to guard the toughest guard assigment, even if its 2. It puts Dallas' defense at a disadvantage.

cowdog80 · 05-12-2008, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

Chris Paul makes every defender look bad. Kidd is no slouch on defense, and is a smart ballhawk (I think...).

Kidd hasn't been a good on-ball defender in 3 or 4 years (he's still a more than capable help defender). Unfortunately, when you're a PG, you're usually playing the guy...on ball.

While better than Kidd at this stage in their careers, Jet's not exactly a lock-down defender either.