Carmelo Anthony - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

bobatundi · 12-08-2010, 12:48 PM

Ok, so much of the speculation with an Anthony trade revolves around where he wants to be long-term, right? Well how about this.

Dallas trades Caron and Haywood to the Nuggets for Anthony.

If you're Denver, you do it to get something instead of nothing. You now have a legit C, and you have a solid if not spectacular player in Butler that you can choose to re-sign, S&T, or just let him expire.

For the Mavs: you're trading away Caron, who is expiring and seems unlikely to be re-signed, and Haywood, who is getting paid a lot of money to be the third-best C on our team, and is likely to become more and more disgruntled as the season goes along. I mean really, he gets a start and can't even log more minutes than Mahinmi?

So swapping 'Melo for Caron in our starting lineup, and replacing Haywood's limited production with Mahinmi, could put this team over the top (if they're not already there). Then, if we win a championship, maybe Carmelo decides he likes that and wants to do it some more; or, if he's insisting on leaving for New York, we get (at worst) a $17MM trade exception and a future pick out of it by doing a S&T, and could get some talent back as well (Felton, anyone?).

Underdog · 12-08-2010, 01:10 PM

Do it.

mavs777 · 12-08-2010, 01:40 PM

i doubt denver's gm is this drugged up

dalger · 12-08-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobatundi

you're trading away Caron, who is expiring and seems unlikely to be re-signed

Caron's "unlikely to be re-signed"? I think we have two options as it relates to him: a) trade him until February for a no brainer like Melo or Iggy or b) not trade him and instead re-sign him in the offseason at a reasonable price.

Letting him walk for nothing in return is actually an option? I must be missing something...

Underdog · 12-08-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalger

Letting him walk for nothing in return is actually an option? I must be missing something...

What about a lockout?

I could see a lot of players getting stuck in limbo before the new CBA gets worked out...

dude1394 · 12-08-2010, 04:28 PM

Since when is Nene and the birdman not a solid center rotation?

Male30Dan · 12-08-2010, 11:34 PM

Dude... Do you really think that Caron Butler and Haywood net Anthony? I wish but, alas, I have no magic lamp with a blue genie to pop out and speak in fast unorthodox sentences.

mavs777 · 12-09-2010, 01:45 AM

Its a huge risk but at this point seeing this team I would include Roddy into a trade for Carmello and hope he enjoys Dallas enough to sign an extension. With a finishing lineup of
Kidd- Jet- Carmello- Dirk- Chandler that may be the most complete unit in the league

spreedom · 12-09-2010, 08:36 AM

I must be the only one here that doesn't think Melo makes us much better. To me, he is nothing more than a high-volume, low-efficiency scorer that would do nothing but take shots away from Dirk. Big time pass for me, especially because he is going to NY next season. I think that part is preordained. Even IF he signed an extension I think I'd pass. Teams with two volume scorers rarely, if ever, go all the way. And at this point, even being 5 or 6 years older, I think Dirk is head and shoulders above Melo as a player.

mac222b · 12-09-2010, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

I must be the only one here that doesn't think Melo makes us much better. To me, he is nothing more than a high-volume, low-efficiency scorer that would do nothing but take shots away from Dirk. Big time pass for me, especially because he is going to NY next season. I think that part is preordained. Even IF he signed an extension I think I'd pass. Teams with two volume scorers rarely, if ever, go all the way. And at this point, even being 5 or 6 years older, I think Dirk is head and shoulders above Melo as a player.

im with you brother. pass on Melo.

p.s. i'm from Syracuse and watched him win a title.
but it's all about Melo. not the team. his focus is suspect. defense intermittent. he's definitely going to NY. and Roddy may be a better all around player in a few years...

mavs777 · 12-09-2010, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

I must be the only one here that doesn't think Melo makes us much better. To me, he is nothing more than a high-volume, low-efficiency scorer that would do nothing but take shots away from Dirk. Big time pass for me, especially because he is going to NY next season. I think that part is preordained. Even IF he signed an extension I think I'd pass. Teams with two volume scorers rarely, if ever, go all the way. And at this point, even being 5 or 6 years older, I think Dirk is head and shoulders above Melo as a player.

He isn't near as effecient as Dirk or the player he is, but Melo makes the team a lot better he gets to the free throw line a ton, and would be by far our second best player. Also him along side Dirk both guys would get less doubles. Even if he shoots 44% from floor rest of the way don't you think him going to the line 8 times a game and shooting 80 % there more than makes up for it? He is also a very good re bounder for a 3

dalger · 12-09-2010, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

What about a lockout?

I could see a lot of players getting stuck in limbo before the new CBA gets worked out...

It's quite possible that a lockout and its consequences lead to a lot of changes. However, I haven't heard of a scenario that would allow teams with a payroll like ours to improve other than trading players with expiring contracts for players with more talent and non-expiring contracts, which is basically what we've done over the years (Stack -> Marion, J-Ho -> Butler/Haywood, Damp -> Chandler). The alternative would be to not trade a player with an expiring contract and re-sign him (Dirk, Kidd, Haywood). Quality draft picks are unlikely and not exactly what we need at this stage of Dirk's career, while the MLE could be gone after a potential lockout.

If we didn't trade Caron until February, he would either be here to stay or gone at the end of the season. The latter would hurt our depth and make us more dependent on Jet and Roddy.

Again, I just don't see how we could be a better team next year (or after the lockout) without Butler, unless we get a replacement as part of a trade while he's still under contract.

mavspwnage · 12-12-2010, 04:36 PM

Looks like he only wants to be sent to the Knicks...

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/n...ory?id=5912307

DMOC · 12-12-2010, 11:00 PM

I guess this rules us out.

bobatundi · 12-13-2010, 01:27 PM

Not necessarily. My whole point was that the "rental" might be ok, provided we didn't give up too much. Adding the $17MM trade exception next year when we S&T him to New York wouldn't be a bad thing if it were to go down that way. Then again, with the CBA up in the air, who knows if such things will even exist anymore.

Maybe Cuban's business partner Todd Wagner can sell off his stake in the Mavs (to Cuban), buy the Hornets for cash, trade Paul to the Mavs for a box of rocks, then sell the team back to the NBA.

FINtastic · 12-13-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMOC

I guess this rules us out.

If anything, the news that he won't sign for anyone but New York bodes well for us. I don't think anyone could ever picture him being more than a rental for Dallas, but now it seems to pretty much be confirmed for the rest of the league as well.

This will effectively kill the price of Anthony since every team in the league knows that he's a 3 month rental, and teams just aren't going to offer much for that. So the people that think we have to give up some mega package of players to land Melo are off the mark here, me thinks.

bobatundi · 12-13-2010, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

If anything, the news that he won't sign for anyone but New York bodes well for us. I don't think anyone could ever picture him being more than a rental for Dallas, but now it seems to pretty much be confirmed for the rest of the league as well.

This will effectively kill the price of Anthony since every team in the league knows that he's a 3 month rental, and teams just aren't going to offer much for that. So the people that think we have to give up some mega package of players to land Melo are off the mark here, me thinks.

precisely

mac222b · 12-13-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FINtastic

If anything, the news that he won't sign for anyone but New York bodes well for us. I don't think anyone could ever picture him being more than a rental for Dallas, but now it seems to pretty much be confirmed for the rest of the league as well.

This will effectively kill the price of Anthony since every team in the league knows that he's a 3 month rental, and teams just aren't going to offer much for that. So the people that think we have to give up some mega package of players to land Melo are off the mark here, me thinks.

agree with this. it's a question of whether we can get him w/out giving up Roddy or Tyson. if it's Caron, DeShawn, Dojo and a 1st then of course. but some other team could probably top that, even if he is just a rental.

maybe we'd try and involve a 3rd team to get them more talent by sending out a salary? Melo needs a TON of shots and i'd be very careful about disrupting this team's chemistry w/ a guy like him. in reality we need a healthy Roddy back more.

Dirkadirkastan · 12-13-2010, 05:40 PM

Just another wimpy quitter in the new generation of NBA players.

Zaknaf3in · 12-22-2010, 11:16 AM

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.co...38893/26583993

Quote:

Sources: Mavs poised to enter Melo chase
Posted on: December 21, 2010 8:14 pm

The Dallas Mavericks are plotting an aggressive push to acquire Carmelo Anthony, even if they don’t get assurances that the three-time All-Star would agree to a contract extension as part of the trade, league sources told CBSSports.com.

Despite his team’s emergence as one of the powers of the Western Conference -- and, as Dallas proved Monday night in Miami, the whole league -- owner Mark Cuban is said to be not only willing to take a chance on Anthony, but eager to steal him from the Nets, who are owned by his billionaire rival, Mikhail Prokhorov. In a deal that would provide Denver with little more than future savings, the Mavs are planning what one rival executive described as a “hard” push.

The Mavs’ interest has yet to take the form of a concrete offer, as one person connected to the Anthony drama told CBSSports.com Tuesday that Dallas had yet to present one. Any prospects the Mavs might have to pull off such a coup would be contingent on Anthony declining to sign an extension with New Jersey. With a signed extension as part of the deal, the Nets still possess by far the most attractive assets to Denver -- Derrick Favors, the expiring contract of Troy Murphy, and multiple first-round picks.

But that is the question that the Anthony saga has hinged on for months. Part of Dallas’ strategy, according to sources, is to shift the Anthony discussions to what Cuban recently called the “rent-a-player” phase, which would drive down the price and encourage other teams to present offers without assurances that Anthony would stay put for five years -- the two he has remaining (including the early-termination option for 2011-12) plus the extension.

Such potential suitors, including the Mavs, do not have enough of what Denver is looking for to compete with New Jersey’s best offer. But if Dallas is successful in shifting Denver’s focus to “rental” deals, the Nets would then have to decide how much they are willing to give up to acquire a franchise cornerstone for their move to Brooklyn -- even if Anthony could leave them in the dust as a free agent before the team even got there.

Meanwhile, the Nuggets remain in a patient posture and are not in any apparent rush to push a New Jersey trade to fruition. And after acquiring two more first-round picks in a three-team trade with the Lakers and Rockets last week, Nets executives are continuing their ongoing efforts to sweeten the deal for Anthony by acquiring a veteran he’d want to play with in Newark, N.J., for a year-and-a-half. Such inducements could come in the form of Al Harrington and/or Chauncey Billups, whom Anthony might be comfortable having on board. The other scenarios, according to one executive familiar with them, are numerous and “beyond challenging” because multiple teams would be needed.

Among the contending teams with the deep pockets and championship core to take a risk like trading for Anthony without a signed extension as part of the deal, Dallas has the most expiring money to make it worth the Nuggets’ while. Any Dallas proposal would have to include the expiring contracts of Caron Butler and DeShawn Stevenson. More money would need to be added -- Tyson Chandler? -- or a third team would need to be recruited in order to take Harrington and/or Billups off Denver’s hands.

Underdog · 12-22-2010, 11:42 AM

I'm against the idea of including Chandler for Melo - it would be foolish to trade away our defensive identity for a 2nd scorer...

sefant77 · 12-22-2010, 11:44 AM

No way they include Chander in such a rental deal.

Butler/Stevenson/Ajinca/Roddy for Anthony/Birdman. Maybe TE for Balkman. Cash for Stevensons buyout, so he can re-sign with us.

I think thats the maximum offer and you basically upgraded the team right now with Butler -> Anthony.

I still would hate to see Anthony walk away next summer to NY.

Mavericks Rockets Fan · 12-22-2010, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

I still would hate to see Anthony walk away next summer to NY.

If he delivers us an NBA Title I wouldn't mind.

Underdog · 12-22-2010, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavericks Rockets Fan

If he delivers us an NBA Title I wouldn't mind.

If he delivers us an NBA title, he probably won't walk...

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-22-2010, 12:16 PM

Please get Billups too!

But yeah, no Chandler....no way.

EricaLubarsky · 12-22-2010, 12:52 PM

I dont know-- this team is just so good as it is-- maybe not perfect and maybe not going to win it all, but I actually want to see this team compete this year. I feel like we need a guard more than another forward that takes shots away from Dirk.

Marion is absolutely beastly of late with his defense. Butler is coming on as a pretty consistent 2nd/3rd scorer and Terry is himself.

Melo and Dirk really play in the same areas too. They both like the 15 foot top-of-the-key range and without a guard providing penetration, Dirk really needs the ball to be successful.

I just dont see it. As much as this is the year of teams putting together a nuclear arsenal I just dont think a Melo/Dirk combo would really do it without a point that can create.

Right now our biggest problems are 1) penetration and 2) allowing offensive boards

When we play energetic D, we often get primary and secondary breaks. When the other team is scoring or we arent securing boards, our offense often gets stagnant and the only guys penetrating are Dirk and Terry.

Bottom line: Don't trade Dirk or Chandler. Dont trade Kidd unless you can get better at that position too. If you get Melo, you better be ready to dump Butler or another wing because its already crowded at the 3

deamon · 12-22-2010, 01:11 PM

,,Right now our biggest problems are 1) penetration"

TRUE

41mvp · 12-22-2010, 01:25 PM

Chandler stay with us!!!Butler/Stevenson/Chandler for Melo No Way!!!

41mvp · 12-22-2010, 01:35 PM

http://dallas.sbnation.com/dallas-ma...vericks-rumors

Take that!!!

Underdog · 12-22-2010, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 41mvp

http://dallas.sbnation.com/dallas-ma...vericks-rumors

Take that!!!

Sounds like Cuban wants to stand pat...

I wonder if that means Roddy will be coming back sooner rather than later?

jthig32 · 12-22-2010, 02:21 PM

Really shouldn't take Cuban at his word on that denial, although I do think this is an incredible long shot and almost a non-story. Having said that, here's an article discussing how Carmelo might (or might not) fit. The author has a point even though he got his facts wrong (and I was the reader that corrected him

).

Quote:

Multiple outlets are reporting that the Mavericks have entered the Carmelo Anthony fray, raising an always fascinating question: Why would an elite team risk disrupting its chemistry and rotations to add a landscape-altering player like the Denver forward?

On the surface, it makes perfect sense. The Mavs, 23-5, have a 6-foot-7, offensive-minded swingman with a $10.5 million expiring deal who, at his best, attacks the basket, draws fouls and rains mid-range shots in the flow, and, at his worst, jab-steps the offense into a slumber before jacking a contested 20-footer. That would be Caron Butler, who, when described that way, sounds like an inferior version of Carmelo Anthony. Replacing Butler with Anthony should be an easy upgrade — the sort of thing you can do without introducing chaos, since the two have similar games. Anthony could be the reliable 1A scorer Dallas fans have craved for years, someone who could lift the Dallas offense from “pretty good” to (possibly) “elite.”

Of course, the situation is not that simple. Any Dallas deal for Anthony would almost certainly have to be (at least) a three-team trade, since the Mavs do not have the extra first-round picks Denver reportedly craves. They do have a prized young asset in Roddy Beaubois, but most folks consider him an untouchable, and even combining Beaubois with a late first-rounder and two expiring deals (Butler and DeShawn Stevenson) might not be enough to compete with the Nets’ loaded offer.

Adding Anthony to the Mavs also isn’t as simple as giving him Butler’s minutes and watching him go. Butler’s ability to potentially swing between shooting guard and small forward can aid Dallas’ lineup flexibility. He can play small forward beside Jason Terry (or Stevenson) and slide to shooting guard when the Mavs go big and use Shawn Marion as their small forward. (Update: A reader points out that Butler has not played shooting guard this season, and Basketball Value’s lineup data show he’s correct. Butler played a lot of 2-guard last season for Dallas, but not this season yet.) Anthony’s a bit taller and bulkier than Butler, and he rarely guards even the league’s strongest 2-guards. Carmelo does bring the ability to work as a small-ball power forward, but that’s not a pressing need with Dallas, considering the team wants both Nowitzki and Tyson Chandler on the court during important minutes.

The Mavs’ offense — even their two-man stuff — is predicated on unselfishness and movement, which is why it is so frustrating when Butler stops the ball and goes into his jab-step routine. Nowitzki is the only Mav allowed to hold the ball in isolation, and that’s because he’s Dirk Nowitzki, shooting 55 percent and drawing constant double teams in the post. An offense can work just fine with two guys taking turns isolating on the wing, but it’s not ideal and doesn’t make the best use of Dallas’ complementary pieces.

Anthony can, of course, adapt his game — a possibility folks rarely discuss when thinking about how he might fit on various teams. The Mavs run the occasional pick-and-roll with Butler as the ball-handler, and they could do that with Anthony, too (a Nowitzki/Anthony pick-and-roll on the side of the court could be brilliant). Carmelo’s knack for drawing fouls would also be useful on a team that sometimes struggles to get to the line and slips into fits of mid-range chucking. He’d work nicely in Dallas’ elite transition game.

Anthony’s shakiness on defense wouldn’t worry me if I were Dallas. Its zone would hide his biggest weakness — a tendency toward lazy switching on and off the ball — and he’d be held accountable on a team playing some of the stingiest and most cooperative man-to-man in the league. His solid defensive rebounding would address the only chink we’ve seen in Dallas’ defense.

Another question the Dallas brass must ask itself: Is Butler’s hot three-point shooting for real? Butler is a career 32 percent shooter from deep — just a single percentage point better than Anthony — but he’s shooting 43 percent this season, feasting on well-chosen looks from the corner. The sample size is obviously small, but if Butler has developed a new weapon here, the Mavs should be a bit more wary of dealing him. Dallas is shooting more threes this season and fewer long twos, and that is generally a good thing for teams that can hit a decent percentage from deep.

This all might be a pipe dream, anyway, since the consensus is that the Nets remain a clear front-runner for the Nuggets’ leading scorer. But when a 23-5 team thinks about making a huge move, it’s worth watching.

One side note I couldn’t resist mentioning here at the end: Ken Berger of CBSSports adds this little tidbit to his reporting on the Mavs’ pursuit of Melo:

“Mark Cuban is said to be not only willing to take a chance on Anthony, but eager to steal him from the Nets, who are owned by his billionaire rival, Mikhail Prokhorov.”

This has to be the most hilarious minor reason I’ve ever heard for thinking about a trade. This sounds like something Scrooge McDuck would do to thwart one of his archrivals on Duck Tales.

HiddenX · 12-22-2010, 02:50 PM

Never change a running system!

kg_veteran · 12-22-2010, 03:32 PM

@jthig32 - Saw your tweet. Glad to see you setting the record straight. As for the trade, it is a long shot. The Nuggets are likely to have a better offer from the Nets, and Dallas would likely want long term assurances (despite any rumors to the contrary).

mavs777 · 12-22-2010, 03:35 PM

Carmello makes this team a ton better

BGMaverick9 · 12-22-2010, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

@jthig32 - Saw your tweet. Glad to see you setting the record straight. As for the trade, it is a long shot. The Nuggets are likely to have a better offer from the Nets, and Dallas would likely want long term assurances (despite any rumors to the contrary).

They might want it, but Cuban is the type of guy that's willing to take a chance. It's definitely a long shot and as the days and wins go by, it's a long shot they'll actually make a flashy move.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-22-2010, 05:00 PM

From reports it seems Denver doesn't want to trade until everyone is healthy. If that's true, then I wouldn't see anything happening until at least mid-January to February. Seems a bit late at that time, especially if the team is still as good as it is. This seemed more obvious when Butler was playing poorly, but now it seems like a toss-up. The Marion/Butler combo is working and both players seem to keep fresh on back-to-backs with lower minutes between them. Deshawn/Butler/Roddy aren't worthless players and all have good contracts. That is a lot to give up for a non-guaranteed Melo rental.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 12-22-2010, 08:03 PM

Well Denver is backing off Melo trade talk because of the death of someone close to him as well as it being the holidays. It'll probably pick back up in a few weeks.

tcat075 · 12-22-2010, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Really shouldn't take Cuban at his word on that denial, although I do think this is an incredible long shot and almost a non-story. Having said that, here's an article discussing how Carmelo might (or might not) fit. The author has a point even though he got his facts wrong (and I was the reader that corrected him

).

Haha, I linked this same article on MMB like 30 minutes ago, before I even saw it here. I'm guessing you saw it through BDL's 10 man rotation? I'm not sure I totally agree with everything he says, but you're right, he definitely has some interesting points he throws out there.

dude1394 · 12-22-2010, 10:32 PM

Chandler isn't going anywhere.

buddha08 · 12-23-2010, 01:42 AM

You'd be crazy not to trade Caron, Haywood or Stevenson, and Roddy for Carmelo! The Mavs' success so far has been sans Roddy, so his contribution is moot at this point. So, just in terms of productivity, does Melo get you more than Caron and Haywood or Stevenson? Hell Yeah! Keep in mind, Melo is six years younger than Dirk, and four years younger than Caron. That's a lot of future productivity, too. I know many worry about the current chemistry, but the Mavs that won almost 70 games in o7' also had great chemistry. I've watched this team flounder too much since the Miami debacle to have a false sense of hope. Come playoff time, I'd rather rely on Melo as a #2 scorer than either Caron or Terry. I have no faith that either Terry or Caron can be Robin to Dirk through the whole NBA playoffs. I wouldn't have this fear about Melo.