Jason Kidd: Three point bomber. - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

jthig32 · 03-03-2010, 03:31 PM

So I was reading this Sherrington article about Kidd.

And it's a good article. It's focusing on Kidd, his smarts, and his transition into a more offensive force. I found this part particularly intriguing:

Quote:

Even a guy as smart as Kidd can't live by his wits forever, though. He turns 37 in three weeks. While still in New Jersey, he decided he needed to do something that, as crazy as it sounds, would make him seem quicker.

And that's when he started to learn how to shoot.

For a guy so smart, it might have seemed a little late in the game. A classic point guard, Kidd had always been a facilitator first. But he knew he had to change. What made it problematic is that basketball players in their 30s don't add to their games. They die with what brung 'em.

Instead of fading away, Kidd went to work every summer with what amounts to a swing coach.

Before Kidd came back to Dallas two years ago, his best 3-point percentage over a full season was 36.6. Last year, he shot 40.6. But he still didn't trust it. Opponents knew it and backed off, daring him. Teammates and coaches, knowing how much it would help Kidd's drives and the rest of the offense if a defender was forced to play him, begged him to shoot. And still he wouldn't let it fly.

Gradually, as more shots go in, he's come around. In the Mavs' first 18 games this season, he scored in double figures five times. Each month, he's gotten a little bolder. Last month, which included his best streak of play in years, he scored in double figures 11 of 13 games, including a ridiculous triple-double against the Hawks.

He's now shooting 42 percent from 3-point range, 14th in the league, just two spots behind Steve Nash.

No longer just a big brain at point guard, Kidd's a legitimate scorer now. If the Mavs harbor any hopes for the postseason, he must keep shooting.

"Absolutely," he said. "This is me. This is us."

Jason Kidd, 3-point threat. You'd better guard him, all right. Coaches should keep an eye out, too.

I mean, think about that. Jason freaking Kidd is just behind Steve Nash in three point percentage. And it made me wonder how many attempts each has. In my brain, I still think of Kidd as a very opportunistic three point shooter who only lets fly when he is wide, wide open. But as I reflect on this season, and particularly these past few weeks, I think that's wrong. He shoots much more often with guys flying at him than he ever has.

And goodness what did I find when I looked up the three point numbers? Jason Kidd is 16th (among qualified players) in the NBA in 3pt%. He's shooting 41%. And he has more attempts than anyone shooting better than him. And in most cases, a lot more. In fact, only one player ahead of him has 300 attempts. And only 5 players ahead of him have even 200 attempts.

So my point is this: We have to change the way we think of Kidd. This is no longer a fluke. This is real. So when you talk about Kidd; about what he brings to the team and what his attributes are, obviously you start with the floor leadership, the amazing passing, and everything else. But you have to start adding one more: one of the best three point shooters in the NBA. I mean, it sounds weird, but it's true.

And make no mistake, that's a huge component of this team right now. We're starting two wing players that are basically terrible at shooting beyond the arc (and rarely even try). Combine that with the fact that Dirk is taking fewer threes than ever, and Kidd's marksmanship has become very, very important for this team.

dude1394 · 03-03-2010, 03:47 PM

Very nice jthig....I've seen his willingness to shoot the 3 also translate into more aggressiveness offensively in general.

bernardos70 · 03-03-2010, 03:53 PM

Very good article.

There's one way he makes up for not being able to "break ankles:" I've seen quite a few times now defenders having to run towards him to cover the 3 and him dribbling past for a pass or closer shot.

FINtastic · 03-03-2010, 04:00 PM

Yep, it's definitely not a fluke. The man has shot over 40% from three ever since he has put the Maverick uniform back on. This season it's turned into a bona fide weapon for us. It's crazy to see this, but this year the dude has put up a 56% eFG%. Did you ever think you would see the day when Jason Kidd would become an efficient scorer?

I have to say, I do thoroughly enjoy watching old legends continue to find new ways to add to their game. Sometimes old dogs can learn new tricks.

DirkFTW · 03-03-2010, 04:01 PM

Giggity!

I mean, nice analysis.

Kidd Karma · 03-03-2010, 04:08 PM

And he was passing up wide wide open 3's just after the trade to Dallas. Now look at him shoot.

aurelino9 · 03-03-2010, 04:10 PM

Indeed. He's a legit 3 pt shooter. A lot of people still think it is fluke and that he makes them because he is so wide open all the time. Firstly, he makes contested 3s as well. Secondly, there is a reason why he finds himself open beyond the arc. He knows where to position himself to catch a pass and it is a result of double-teams and good ball-movement. Also, his 3pt % is a little skewed because he takes a few beat-the-shot-clock desperation shots because either JJB dribbles for 22seconds and then passes it like a hot potato or there's 1.5 seconds on the shot-clock and Kidd tries to hit a halfcourt shot.

mavsfan1000 · 03-03-2010, 04:15 PM

He pretty much switched from defense to offense. He can't guard anyone anymore but at least he can make you pay if you leave him. Luckily, Butler and Marion can hide his deficiencies for the most part there.

CATCH-17 · 03-03-2010, 04:17 PM

Teams just leave him unguarded.

Any NBA guard should be able to spot shoot like he is when left WIDE open.

I hope teams decide not to guard him but even if they do it still leaves someone else 1 on 1.

CadBane · 03-03-2010, 04:18 PM

Thig, I disagree with your notion Kidd shoots anything but contested threes.

The fact is, ALL Kidd shoots IS wide open threes. That has to be taken into consideration when comparing him to other shooters.

You note sometimes he shoots them with guys running at him. Well, that's half correct. The thing is, Kidd has an extremely SLOW release. When guys run at him, it's only after he's spent three seconds lining up and releasing the ball. Those are still open threes that he simply takes a long time to rev up on. Fact is, his contested threes would be blocked (if he shot while a guy was ALREADY there).

That said, when Kidd gets set, he is a VERY good three-point shooter. He's also a bit streaky. What he's doing better now is CONTINUING to take them even when he's missing.

The Atlanta game epitomizes this. He missed like 5 threes in the third quarter. All WIDE open looks. In the 4th, he got those same WIDE open looks. In the past he's scared to shoot them. Now he knocks three of them down.

Guys want Kidd to shoot the three. They double Dirk hard. Kidd gets the easiest three attempts of any legitimate 3-point shooter in the NBA. He just needs to keep shooting when he's open. I think we can all live with that.

ReDirkulous Tyme · 03-03-2010, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

He pretty much switched from defense to offense. He can't guard anyone anymore but at least he can make you pay if you leave him. Luckily, Butler and Marion can hide his deficiencies for the most part there.

Still considered one of the best ALL-AROUND defensive pg's in the league...although not quick on the ball, he easily makes up for it with his physical play, rebounding, ridiculously quick hands, and an unparalleled sense for where the ball will be and how offensive sets will develop. His intellect is on another level completely from the rest of the league, even far above the other elite PG's.

Kidd is one of the best defenders we have.

mavsfan1000 · 03-03-2010, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CATCH-17

Teams just leave him unguarded.

Any NBA guard should be able to spot shoot like he is when left WIDE open.

I hope teams decide not to guard him but even if they do it still leaves someone else 1 on 1.

We got Butler now to take advantage of that if they decide to stay on Kidd. Marion is definitely the guy to leave if he is at the 3 point line.

jthig32 · 03-03-2010, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CATCH-17

Teams just leave him unguarded.

Any NBA guard should be able to spot shoot like he is when left WIDE open.

I hope teams decide not to guard him but even if they do it still leaves someone else 1 on 1.

He doesn't only shoot when he's WIDE open. His big threes against Atlanta weren't WIDE open. He was open due to a double team, but it wasn't like no one was rotating towards him.

Again last year you were right. This year, not the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Thig, I disagree with your notion Kidd shoots anything but contested threes.

The fact is, ALL Kidd shoots IS wide open threes. That has to be taken into consideration when comparing him to other shooters.

You note sometimes he shoots them with guys running at him. Well, that's half correct. The thing is, Kidd has an extremely SLOW release. When guys run at him, it's only after he's spent three seconds lining up and releasing the ball. Those are still open threes that he simply takes a long time to rev up on. Fact is, his contested threes would be blocked (if he shot while a guy was ALREADY there).

That said, when Kidd gets set, he is a VERY good three-point shooter. He's also a bit streaky. What he's doing better now is CONTINUING to take them even when he's missing.

The Atlanta game epitomizes this. He missed like 5 threes in the third quarter. All WIDE open looks. In the 4th, he got those same WIDE open looks. In the past he's scared to shoot them. Now he knocks three of them down.

Guys want Kidd to shoot the three. They double Dirk hard. Kidd gets the easiest three attempts of any legitimate 3-point shooter in the NBA. He just needs to keep shooting when he's open. I think we can all live with that.

As I said above, I disagree with this notion of WIDE open. When he has the time he absolutely takes his time getting that shot up. But he's also hitting shots when he has less time this year. Those shots against Atlanta were not as wide open as you see, at least not according to my recollection.

I'm not saying he's Ray Allen or Reggie Miller. He's not going to come off a screen and throw up a three. He shoots them when he's open. Not "not a guy within three hundred feet" open, just "open". Just like the vast majority of other players in the NBA that shoot the three.

Sorry, but I'm not accepting any more qualifiers. He is a legitimate three point shooter, one of the better ones in the NBA. And it's pretty cool that he has added this aspect of his game at this stage of his career.

mavsfan1000 · 03-03-2010, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfanforlife09

Still considered one of the best ALL-AROUND defensive pg's in the league...although not quick on the ball, he easily makes up for it with his physical play, rebounding, ridiculously quick hands, and an unparalleled sense for where the ball will be and how offensive sets will develop. His intellect is on another level completely from the rest of the league, even far above the other elite PG's.

Kidd is one of the best defenders we have.

Butler, Marion, Haywood, Stevenson, and Dampier are our defenders. Yes Kidd is a good help defender but I think having a good on the ball defender at the point guard position is crucial. Parker, Williams, Billups, Westbrook, and Nash need to be controllled. Especially now that we are going big at the SG which makes the quick point guards more of Kidd's responsibility. I think it is worth trying Butler on these players though.

CadBane · 03-03-2010, 04:30 PM

Thig, like I said, I think it's a perception thing. Some of his threes look "contested" because he takes 3-5 seconds to get them up there. The guy flys at him, but at that point Kidd has already released the ball. Those Atlanta threes were pretty damn open. I'm not talking like, look at your feet twice wide open, but he had plenty of time to catch, set, shoot with no threat of contest.

I'm not trying to "qualify" anything.

Kidd is a VERY good open three-point shooter. And lots of guys in the NBA CANNOT hit open threes at the clip Kidd does. So yeah, the man can shoot for real.

jthig32 · 03-03-2010, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Thig, like I said, I think it's a perception thing. Some of his threes look "contested" because he takes 3-5 seconds to get them up there. The guy flys at him, but at that point Kidd has already released the ball. Those Atlanta threes were pretty damn open. I'm not talking like, look at your feet twice wide open, but he had plenty of time to catch, set, shoot with no threat of contest.

I'm not trying to "qualify" anything.

Kidd is a VERY good open three-point shooter. And lots of guys in the NBA CANNOT hit open threes at the clip Kidd does. So yeah, the man can shoot for real.

My point is this: Last year, and for most of Kidd's career, he shot a three when he was so open that it would be embarrassing not to shoot it. And even then a lot of times he would shot fake and try to get a defender to fly at him so he could try to pass or drive.

This year, if he's open, just plain old open, he shoots it. And that's different.

ReDirkulous Tyme · 03-03-2010, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Butler, Marion, Haywood, Stevenson, and Dampier are our defenders. Yes Kidd is a good help defender but I think having a good on the ball defender at the point guard position is crucial. Parker, Williams, Billups, Westbrook, and Nash need to be controllled. Especially now that we are going big at the SG which makes the quick point guards more of Kidd's responsibility. I think it is worth trying Butler on these players though.

I think that is incorrect. The reason those players play well against the Mavs, is because they are GREAT point guards. The reason they kill us, is because they kill EVERYONE. This is the reason they are the best PG's in the league.....the number of guys, who can even REMOTELY successfully defend these players, can be counted on 1 hand.

Oh, and in case you were wondering, thats 5 players who MIGHT be able to defend the players you mentioned.

dude1394 · 03-03-2010, 04:42 PM

I have seen plenty of nba guards not make threes even when open. Devin Harris comes to mind for example. Josh, Stack, Marquis and many others. Dirk has gotten many,many of our shooters open 3s but they haven't hit them nearly at this rate. So to me it makes sense to give him the props he deserves.

aurelino9 · 03-03-2010, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

Butler, Marion, Haywood, Stevenson, and Dampier are our defenders. Yes Kidd is a good help defender but I think having a good on the ball defender at the point guard position is crucial. Parker, Williams, Billups, Westbrook, and Nash need to be controllled. Especially now that we are going big at the SG which makes the quick point guards more of Kidd's responsibility. I think it is worth trying Butler on these players though.

There's so much more to defense than on-the-ball defense against quick PGs.

1) Kidd has enough strength to guard SGs and even SFs at times, which allows Carlisle to go small.
2) He is one of the better post-defenders for his size, so in case he gets crossed matched against a bigger player in the post, which happens when the team is switching everything, he's more than capable of holding his own.
3) He has great (and strong) hands. Couple that with his tremendous anticipation and he gets many on-the-ball steals and deflections. This was also recently evidenced in the back-to-back jumpball calls he got against Collison. Kidd was able to hold-on to the ball in both instances.
4) Anticipation again allows him to block shots from time-to-time. He's averaging career high in bpg this year.
5) Defensive rebounding is a key part of defense. Doesn't matter if you play lock-down D but give up the defensive rebound. Kidd is one of the greatest rebounding guards of all time and he continues to do well in this aspect of the game.
6) He's one of the best team defenders in the league. He's the key that makes Mavs zone defense really work. Even when they are man-to-man, when his man doesn't have the ball, he plays a freelance zone. This enables him to grab the rebound off a miss or even steal the ball.

Tell me one defender who can guard all of those PGs that you mentioned one-on-one and do everything else that I said above? Besides, stopping an offensive player is the responsibility of the whole team. If the rotations are crisp and there's good help defense and shotblocking, it is possible to defend quick PGs.

mavsfan1000 · 03-03-2010, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aurelino9

There's so much more to defense than on-the-ball defense against quick PGs.

There are many other situations but the most important of them all is to stop (or contain) penetration at your position. Kidd has proven not only this year that he can't keep up with them but has been embarrassed by them. Collison's career high, Andre Miller's career high, Billups' playoff last year, Parker's playoffs last year, Chris Paul's playoffs the year before that etc. Yes they aren't easy to defend but at least not let them blow up on you. It really helps having Haywood now to cover up for some of the poor man-to-man defense at the point guard position. But it could really help if we had a player specialize in keeping point guards in front of them off the bench.

Dirkadirkastan · 03-03-2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Thig, like I said, I think it's a perception thing. Some of his threes look "contested" because he takes 3-5 seconds to get them up there. The guy flys at him, but at that point Kidd has already released the ball. Those Atlanta threes were pretty damn open. I'm not talking like, look at your feet twice wide open, but he had plenty of time to catch, set, shoot with no threat of contest.

I'm not trying to "qualify" anything.

Kidd is a VERY good open three-point shooter. And lots of guys in the NBA CANNOT hit open threes at the clip Kidd does. So yeah, the man can shoot for real.

Remember the Kidd vs. Bibby shootout? There was no "3-5 seconds" bullsh!t; those guys were taking the same amount of time to get the shots off. Kidd brings the ball to his waist first but doesn't waste any time releasing the shot like last year.

My video replay > Your memory.

41N · 03-03-2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfanforlife09

I think that is incorrect. The reason those players play well against the Mavs, is because they are GREAT point guards. The reason they kill us, is because they kill EVERYONE. This is the reason they are the best PG's in the league.....the number of guys, who can even REMOTELY successfully defend these players, can be counted on 1 hand.

Oh, and in case you were wondering, thats 5 players who MIGHT be able to defend the players you mentioned.

thats bs, it's not a coincendence that players like collison and miller had career highs against us. kidd is just a very bad one-on-one defender, his defense is all about anticipation and strong hands...

especially this quote doesn't make any sense...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfanforlife09

The reason they kill us, is because they kill EVERYONE.

so what, should we accept this because kidd can't defend them? one year ago we got killed consistently by kobe, melo, lebron etc but matrix kept everyone under their season averages. i just hope carlises doesn't continue to put marion or other good defenders on pg's when they already scored 30-40 points....
cya 41N

ReDirkulous Tyme · 03-03-2010, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 41N

thats bs, it's not a coincendence that players like collison and miller had career highs against us. kidd is just a very bad one-on-one defender, his defense is all about anticipation and strong hands...

especially this quote doesn't make any sense...

so what, should we accept this because kidd can't defend them? one year ago we got killed consistently by kobe, melo, lebron etc but matrix kept everyone under their season averages. i just hope carlises doesn't continue to put marion or other good defenders on pg's when they already scored 30-40 points....
cya 41N

Look at the results of the Blazers, and most recent NO game. They go in the Win column. The reason they had big nights was because of exceptional shooting on contested shots they don't usually make.

Give me a list of the players who can, and have proved that they can, successfully guard players like Collison/Billups/Nash/CP3. Collison has been averaging something like 22+ ppg since CP3 has been out. He's been lighting up everyone, he just happened to be making EVERYTHING against us, especially 3's (which aren't a part of his repertoire).

My point is that those guys can torch any team in the league on any given night. Virtually every team complains about their PG's not being able to guard opposing PG's. When you're as skilled as those players are, there is a reason they are hard to guard.

In addition, Kidd has had game saving defensive plays all year...most recent I can think of would be Atlanta. Yes, he's definitely lost a FEW steps in his man-to-man coverage, and yes he has issues with the super quick ones, but he's still a huge asset on defense.

aurelino9 · 03-03-2010, 05:54 PM

How did a thread giving props to Kidd on his shooting become a "Kidd is a not a good defender" thread?

chumdawg · 03-03-2010, 05:54 PM

Good points. Also, I think he is presently on a 25-game (or so) streak of knocking down at least one three.

Kidd Karma · 03-03-2010, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aurelino9

There's so much more to defense than on-the-ball defense against quick PGs.

1) Kidd has enough strength to guard SGs and even SFs at times, which allows Carlisle to go small.
2) He is one of the better post-defenders for his size, so in case he gets crossed matched against a bigger player in the post, which happens when the team is switching everything, he's more than capable of holding his own.
3) He has great (and strong) hands. Couple that with his tremendous anticipation and he gets many on-the-ball steals and deflections. This was also recently evidenced in the back-to-back jumpball calls he got against Collison. Kidd was able to hold-on to the ball in both instances.
4) Anticipation again allows him to block shots from time-to-time. He's averaging career high in bpg this year.
5) Defensive rebounding is a key part of defense. Doesn't matter if you play lock-down D but give up the defensive rebound. Kidd is one of the greatest rebounding guards of all time and he continues to do well in this aspect of the game.
6) He's one of the best team defenders in the league. He's the key that makes Mavs zone defense really work. Even when they are man-to-man, when his man doesn't have the ball, he plays a freelance zone. This enables him to grab the rebound off a miss or even steal the ball.

Tell me one defender who can guard all of those PGs that you mentioned one-on-one and do everything else that I said above? Besides, stopping an offensive player is the responsibility of the whole team. If the rotations are crisp and there's good help defense and shotblocking, it is possible to defend quick PGs.

One of the things I noticed in high school was his ability to know everyone's assignment. He made behind the back passes, not because he has eyes back there, but because if his teammates kept to their assignments, they would be the recipient of an easy bucket. One time in high school they ran a 1-3-1 full court press, forced a loose ball, Kidd ends up with it sitting at his free throw line facing the opponents basket, he flips a pass over his end to a teammate for the easy layup. His comment, if Harper-Cotton stayed at his position on the press, he would be there. Imagine how that book has grown since he was 18.

Kidd Karma · 03-03-2010, 05:59 PM

Did all of Collison's points come against the 30 minutes Kidd was in the game?

ReDirkulous Tyme · 03-03-2010, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aurelino9

How did a thread giving props to Kidd on his shooting become a "Kidd is a not a good defender" thread?

I was arguing that Kidd IS a good defender. And the only reason I brought that up, as opposed to harping on his superb 3 point shooting of late, was to provide a retort to Mavsfan1000's claim that Kidd was a huge liability, and his belief that Butler should guard opposing point guards.

I'm trying to support Kidd here...

41N · 03-03-2010, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfanforlife09

Look at the results of the Blazers, and most recent NO game. They go in the Win column. The reason they had big nights was because of exceptional shooting on contested shots they don't usually make.

we lost against the blazers but there are other wrong points. i watched both games and i remember how miller started with 4-5 uncontested perimeter j's. since that point miller was hot, his confidence grew and he started to hit contested shots against everyone. what i try to say is that we can't allow them to get hot but kidd doesn't stop them...
the same thing happened with collison. kidd was afraid because of his speed, so he gave him some space for his j's -> he started to get hot, his confidence grew etc....

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfanforlife09

Give me a list of the players who can, and have proved that they can, successfully guard players like Collison/Billups/Nash/CP3. Collison has been averaging something like 22+ ppg since CP3 has been out. He's been lighting up everyone, he just happened to be making EVERYTHING against us, especially 3's (which aren't a part of his repertoire).

what do you mean with successfully? in my opinion it would be successful if kidd would hold them to 20-25 points, just like marion. and they're several good defensive pg's -> cp3, dwill, rondo, westbrook etc...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfanforlife09

My point is that those guys can torch any team in the league on any given night. Virtually every team complains about their PG's not being able to guard opposing PG's. When you're as skilled as those players are, there is a reason they are hard to guard.

yeah, every pg is hard to guard but kidds one-on-one defense isn't just good enough for a contender and every team in the nba knows it. i'm really happy that the lakers have the only pg in the league who's slower than kidd and billups speed isn't his strength...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfanforlife09

In addition, Kidd has had game saving defensive plays all year...most recent I can think of would be Atlanta. Yes, he's definitely lost a FEW steps in his man-to-man coverage, and yes he has issues with the super quick ones, but he's still a huge asset on defense.

i've never said that he's a bad defender, his anticipation is the best in the league and he certainly has the strongest hands in the league...
cya 41N

aurelino9 · 03-03-2010, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Did all of Collison's points come against the 30 minutes Kidd was in the game?

No. He had 11 against Kidd in the first quarter, zero in the third and 10 in the 4th (of which one was a fastbreak layup so technically, it wasn't one-on-one defense of Kidd that conceded the points) and Terry was on Collison for at least a couple of made shots, I think. So maybe 17 out of his 35 were against Kidd.

tcat075 · 03-03-2010, 06:22 PM

What I like is Kidd's willingness in recent weeks to take two point shots. That's really adding a good dimension to the team, having Kidd drill a 17 footer or actually finish on a fast break.

BGMaverick9 · 03-03-2010, 06:50 PM

He reminds me a lot of what Ariza did last year for the Lakers, he just flat out makes you pay. There is too much talent on the court and they feel the need to double so who is the guy that is ALWAYS open, Kidd. If he gets his feet set and has time, I have no problems with him taking a shot.

He has that Ariza role, but he has to QB the offense as well.

LonghornDub · 03-03-2010, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

He pretty much switched from defense to offense. He can't guard anyone anymore but at least he can make you pay if you leave him.

What in the world are you talking about?

rabbitproof · 03-03-2010, 07:08 PM

The only thing left for Kidd to add to his arsenal is a 360 windmill.

Fo sho.

Lor20 · 03-03-2010, 07:26 PM

as much as i am impressed by his threes... he hasnt had a toe on the line the last month or two - that used to drive me bananas.... we lost a few games because of that and he seems more aware of his feet now.

CadBane · 03-03-2010, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I have seen plenty of nba guards not make threes even when open. Devin Harris comes to mind for example. Josh, Stack, Marquis and many others. Dirk has gotten many,many of our shooters open 3s but they haven't hit them nearly at this rate. So to me it makes sense to give him the props he deserves.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

CadBane · 03-03-2010, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

My point is this: Last year, and for most of Kidd's career, he shot a three when he was so open that it would be embarrassing not to shoot it. And even then a lot of times he would shot fake and try to get a defender to fly at him so he could try to pass or drive.

This year, if he's open, just plain old open, he shoots it. And that's different.

I absolutely agree with that. Like I said, this year (esp. Post ASG) he doesn't hesitate at all which is fantastic.

mavsfan1000 · 03-03-2010, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

What in the world are you talking about?

His shooting improved but his defense got weaker. I thought it was common sense that Kidd is poor on man-to-man defense nowadays due to his lack of lateral mobility. At least he has offense. Barea has nothing.

CadBane · 03-03-2010, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Remember the Kidd vs. Bibby shootout? There was no "3-5 seconds" bullsh!t; those guys were taking the same amount of time to get the shots off. Kidd brings the ball to his waist first but doesn't waste any time releasing the shot like last year.

My video replay > Your memory.

I still have the game on my DVR too big guy. Kidd's threes WERE wide open. So were Bibbys bc of the ball rotation (J Smoove drawing help and kicking it to Bibby). Any shooter will tell you both guys were shooting open shots there. Doesn't mean it wasn't impressive though. I'll concede the last 3 was slightly contested, but get real on the other 2.

nowhereman · 03-03-2010, 08:04 PM

Kidd's defense has dropped off, sure, but I believe it's in large part because he has to conserve energy for the 40+ minutes he's giving us.

Just wanted to chime in and say, the shooting:

1. has been in some very clutch moments (e.g. ATL game, LA game), and

2. Provides a lot to the offense because it allows Dirk to operate. If Dirk is in the low block, Kidd is always in a position to be the first pass out, and if Dirk is at the elbow, Kiss is almost always the second pass out. His shooting allows us to really open the floor up for Nowitzki.