02-26-2009, 10:00 AM
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#1
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Guru
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Posts: 40,410
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What should the dirkster do about players crowding him?
I was talking about this the other day with a friend of mine. I expect I've elicited this conversation before also...but....I forget...
So we've again seen players just get right up into dirk this year. Right up in his grill and in fact they've been able to draw flopping offensive foul calls because of it. I never realized that you could not pivot in basketball or turn your body...but that's another story.
How to deal with it? I'm inclined to see him take some fines and elbow the crap out of those guys and be done with it. Of course that might/might not work. They could bring in a scrub, still do it and get dirk out of the game.
I don't see anyone doing that to duncan out on the wing for example. I do see it happen to kobe sometimes I seem to recall.
What shold dirks basketball move be in that case? Does he immediately just drive to the side and go around the guy...that sort of seems like what duncan does. He would have to just power it through since I don't think he's quick enough ala kobe to just go around them.
Thought I would get the boards thoughts on it.
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Last edited by dude1394; 02-26-2009 at 10:40 AM.
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02-26-2009, 10:17 AM
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#2
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Moderator
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The title of this thread is is a lot better now...
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These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 02-26-2009 at 12:14 PM.
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02-26-2009, 10:18 AM
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#3
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I still think the solution is more ball movement - don't give your opponent time to take advantage of the way Dirk is reffed...
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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02-26-2009, 10:56 AM
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#4
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
I still think the solution is more ball movement - don't give your opponent time to take advantage of the way Dirk is reffed...
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Agreed. No one else in the NBA can be as manhandled as Dirk on the perimeter without a foul. It is baffling to me.
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02-26-2009, 11:11 AM
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#5
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 6,655
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Quick move to the basket. Pull up or drive all the way. Hope the ref's having a good day and decides to call a foul as he'll invariably get hammered. It gives me a tired head.
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Let's go Mavs!
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02-26-2009, 11:42 AM
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#6
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,249
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Dribble backwards and take the three!!!
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Is this ghost ball??
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02-26-2009, 11:57 AM
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#7
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Platinum Member
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I tend to agree with dude. Dirk needs to inflict some physical pain on the defender. One way to accomplish this is for the FO to make a trade this offseason for Bruce Bowen. No one in the NBA is more creative on how to injure an opponent than Bruce. He could be an excellent mentor. In all seriousness, I think the fear of an elbow to the face would go along way to solving the problem.
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"Truth is incontrovertible. Panic may resent it. Ignorance may deride it. Malice may distort it. But there it is." - Winston Churchill
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02-26-2009, 12:06 PM
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#8
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
I was talking about this the other day with a friend of mine. I expect I've elicited this conversation before also...but....I forget...
So we've again seen players just get right up into dirk this year. Right up in his grill and in fact they've been able to draw flopping offensive foul calls because of it. I never realized that you could not pivot in basketball or turn your body...but that's another story.
How to deal with it? I'm inclined to see him take some fines and elbow the crap out of those guys and be done with it. Of course that might/might not work. They could bring in a scrub, still do it and get dirk out of the game.
I don't see anyone doing that to duncan out on the wing for example. I do see it happen to kobe sometimes I seem to recall.
What shold dirks basketball move be in that case? Does he immediately just drive to the side and go around the guy...that sort of seems like what duncan does. He would have to just power it through since I don't think he's quick enough ala kobe to just go around them.
Thought I would get the boards thoughts on it.
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I think Dirk could benefit greatly from watching some Duncan tapes. When guys crowd him like that he uses it to BAIT them into a reching foul. He does it by basically pulling the ball up under their arms and creating contact on his shot. There is a big difference tho in where Duncan and Dirk operate. Also Duncan turns his side to the defender while Dirk faces them up more, it's much easier to back them down or go against the defenders front foot on a drive with the defender on their hip. He doesn't have to blow them off the drive all he has to do is get his body in front of them on the first step and then use his body to fend them off and force them to foul.
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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02-26-2009, 12:07 PM
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#9
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purplefrog
I tend to agree with dude. Dirk needs to inflict some physical pain on the defender. One way to accomplish this is for the FO to make a trade this offseason for Bruce Bowen. No one in the NBA is more creative on how to injure an opponent than Bruce. He could be an excellent mentor. In all seriousness, I think the fear of an elbow to the face would go along way to solving the problem.
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I'd take DWhistle, BDiddy, CP3, or almost anybody else, but if Bowen is on this team, I quit being a Mavs fan.
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Dirk - "We should be ready to go to war."
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02-26-2009, 12:44 PM
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#10
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Golden Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,296
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So easy.
Basketball 101.
give and go.
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02-26-2009, 12:48 PM
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#11
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidDaMonkey
I'd take DWhistle, BDiddy, CP3, or almost anybody else, but if Bowen is on this team, I quit being a Mavs fan.
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Why? The Mavs actually go after a shut down defender? Probably the smartest defender in the league? I don't even care if he gets any pt i'd just love to have him at practice guarding Josh and Dirk. To see that daily at practice would be tremendous for those guys.
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02-26-2009, 12:50 PM
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#12
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,241
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Isn't Bowen like 40 now?
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02-26-2009, 12:55 PM
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#13
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Guru
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Location: sport
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This isn't the first time that this has happened. Dirk goes through short funks and works his way out of it.
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02-26-2009, 02:54 PM
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#14
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,305
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Swinging the elbows. If Dirk should be watching anyone it's Karl Malone, no one wanted to crowd that guy.
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02-26-2009, 03:02 PM
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#15
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Diamond Member
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SMC, I've seen Duncan do that on the block, when he has his back to the basket he basically brings his arms up from the side making sure the defender has his arms out so his arms get tangled up with the defender's. I don't remember seeing him do that while he's at the elbow. I'll see if I can spot him doing that.
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Let's go Mavs!
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02-26-2009, 03:20 PM
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#16
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bernardos70
SMC, I've seen Duncan do that on the block, when he has his back to the basket he basically brings his arms up from the side making sure the defender has his arms out so his arms get tangled up with the defender's. I don't remember seeing him do that while he's at the elbow. I'll see if I can spot him doing that.
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Yeah exactly the move I'm talking about.. I have seen him do it some on the elbow, it's not near as often as he does on the block. I couldn't find many of either on youtube unfortunately :/ But dang ol' I think that is a great way for him to get more calls on bs way the officials allow him to be guarded. I'm not that big on making excuses but he does get ripped on calls more than anyone else in the league besides Shaq (in the day).
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
Last edited by SMC0007; 02-26-2009 at 03:23 PM.
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02-26-2009, 05:48 PM
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#17
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,751
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Post up and use that sexy fade away.
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02-26-2009, 05:51 PM
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#18
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC0007
I think Dirk could benefit greatly from watching some Duncan tapes. When guys crowd him like that he uses it to BAIT them into a reching foul. He does it by basically pulling the ball up under their arms and creating contact on his shot. There is a big difference tho in where Duncan and Dirk operate. Also Duncan turns his side to the defender while Dirk faces them up more, it's much easier to back them down or go against the defenders front foot on a drive with the defender on their hip. He doesn't have to blow them off the drive all he has to do is get his body in front of them on the first step and then use his body to fend them off and force them to foul.
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excellent analysis
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02-26-2009, 06:12 PM
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#19
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,250
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Dirk needs to keep the ball in front of him or on his side. When he puts it up behind his head, which is what he does. People get clos4e to him and now he cant shoot and isnt quik enough to dribble it around. So either shoot it quik or dont put it behind his head
__________________
"It feels disrespectful when you watch these shows, TNT, ESPN, and they're talking, 'Walk through the Mavericks, that's who you want to play," Terry said. "OK. We'll see if that's who you want to play."
........GO MAVS
Last edited by AxdemxO; 02-26-2009 at 06:14 PM.
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02-26-2009, 06:25 PM
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#20
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AxdemxO
Dirk needs to keep the ball in front of him or on his side. When he puts it up behind his head, which is what he does. People get clos4e to him and now he cant shoot and isnt quik enough to dribble it around. So either shoot it quik or dont put it behind his head
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yes, I'm sure you know more about what kind of basketball technique works better for Dirk than Dirk does.
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02-26-2009, 06:57 PM
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#21
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,082
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The answer is obvious...
Uppercut them with the ball.
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02-26-2009, 07:03 PM
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#22
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Where Deustchland Happens
Posts: 878
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Jesus said take it to the hole
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The good Ol days : Click
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02-26-2009, 08:16 PM
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#23
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one
yes, I'm sure you know more about what kind of basketball technique works better for Dirk than Dirk does.
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uhh some one is irritated ...soo F off my mann ; )
The question was asking what Dirk should do?? Soo I gave my opinion, soo hopp off
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"It feels disrespectful when you watch these shows, TNT, ESPN, and they're talking, 'Walk through the Mavericks, that's who you want to play," Terry said. "OK. We'll see if that's who you want to play."
........GO MAVS
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02-26-2009, 08:20 PM
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#24
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19,413
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Why do you always add extraaa letterrrs to worrdss?
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02-26-2009, 08:25 PM
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#25
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Golden Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,296
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seriously, give and go. it will keep the defender honest.
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The Legendary Mavericks:
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- Tom Cruise
- Jason Kidd
- Mel Gibson
- Michael Finley
- Dirk Nowitzki
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- who's next?
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02-26-2009, 08:25 PM
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#26
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one
Why do you always add extraaa letterrrs to worrdss?
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Idk must be just to bother you, since you like to get on peoples case for no reason or without actually understanding what they are trying to say. I mean you think you are the know it all, and anytime someone else posts an opinion, you are quik to jump at them. sooooo Idk
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"It feels disrespectful when you watch these shows, TNT, ESPN, and they're talking, 'Walk through the Mavericks, that's who you want to play," Terry said. "OK. We'll see if that's who you want to play."
........GO MAVS
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02-26-2009, 08:30 PM
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#27
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Golden Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,296
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round 1. fight!
__________________
The Legendary Mavericks:
- Mark Aguirre
- Rolando Blackman
- Tom Cruise
- Jason Kidd
- Mel Gibson
- Michael Finley
- Dirk Nowitzki
- Jason Kidd (again)
- who's next?
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02-26-2009, 08:45 PM
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#28
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19,413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AxdemxO
Idk must be just to bother you, since you like to get on peoples case for no reason or without actually understanding what they are trying to say.
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logic
leap
Quote:
Originally Posted by AxdemxO
I mean you think you are the know it all, and anytime someone else posts an opinion, you are quik to jump at them. sooooo Idk
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There are a lot of opinions that I disagree with on here, but I don't jump on them when they state their opinions in a clear, intelligent manner.
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02-26-2009, 08:46 PM
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#29
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,113
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Mavs fan disunity!
Stay united
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02-26-2009, 08:47 PM
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#30
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 19,413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMaverick
round 1. fight!
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simila' to the thrilla' in manilla
Anyway, I agree that that passing would be the way to beat the double/triple teams. The problem is that Dirk doesn't (shouldn't?) trust a lot of the guys to finish, even when he puts them in a perfect position. Also, even when passing is usually the best option, Dirk still needs to be Dirk. We aren't going to win many games with Dirk being held down. I doubt we'll win *any* that way in the playoffs.
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02-26-2009, 09:01 PM
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#31
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one
logic
leap
There are a lot of opinions that I disagree with on here, but I don't jump on them when they state their opinions in a clear, intelligent manner.
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Soo there you go with you stupidity again. Who are you again to judge what is intelligent on here?? Ohh yee nobody...soo stick to you basketball opinions budd ; )
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"It feels disrespectful when you watch these shows, TNT, ESPN, and they're talking, 'Walk through the Mavericks, that's who you want to play," Terry said. "OK. We'll see if that's who you want to play."
........GO MAVS
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02-26-2009, 09:03 PM
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#32
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one
There are a lot of opinions that I disagree with on here, but I don't jump on them when they state their opinions in a clear, intelligent manner.
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Here you just proved my point AGAIN
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"It feels disrespectful when you watch these shows, TNT, ESPN, and they're talking, 'Walk through the Mavericks, that's who you want to play," Terry said. "OK. We'll see if that's who you want to play."
........GO MAVS
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02-26-2009, 09:26 PM
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#33
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Posts: 4,627
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Place your bets, people!!
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02-26-2009, 10:59 PM
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#34
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AxdemxO
Dirk needs to keep the ball in front of him or on his side. When he puts it up behind his head, which is what he does. People get clos4e to him and now he cant shoot and isnt quik enough to dribble it around. So either shoot it quik or dont put it behind his head
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I think you have a good point...First it doesn't allow him to hit the dude "inadvertantly". when he puts it behind his head...his options seem to be limited and the guy really crowds him then.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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02-27-2009, 11:29 AM
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#35
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,250
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Thank you...a person that actually takes time to read and understand
** someone above could learn a few things
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"It feels disrespectful when you watch these shows, TNT, ESPN, and they're talking, 'Walk through the Mavericks, that's who you want to play," Terry said. "OK. We'll see if that's who you want to play."
........GO MAVS
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02-28-2009, 12:44 AM
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#36
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 86
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Well, basketball 101 says for Dirk to drive past the crowding defender.
Unfortunately
1) Opponents play second line defense. Dirk is not fast enough to get past them and the supporting cast doesn't make them pay enough for this.
2) Dirk often doesn't get a call on his drives.
It was exposed by Nellie.. remember Stephen Jackson or Jason Richardson being up in Dirk's grill...
Last edited by catsil; 02-28-2009 at 12:47 AM.
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02-28-2009, 01:52 AM
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#37
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Something happened tonight to JJB that I think dirk should do some of. JJB was crowding his man and the guy went up for a shot and smacked JJB in the mouth with an elbow.
That sounds like a decent play. Go up for a shot when the guy is right up on you....smack him in the face with it and draw the foul.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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02-28-2009, 06:18 AM
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#38
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Golden Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,050
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dirk is so good.
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02-28-2009, 11:17 AM
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#39
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AxdemxO
Dirk needs to keep the ball in front of him or on his side. When he puts it up behind his head, which is what he does. People get clos4e to him and now he cant shoot and isnt quik enough to dribble it around. So either shoot it quik or dont put it behind his head
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Am just saying
__________________
"It feels disrespectful when you watch these shows, TNT, ESPN, and they're talking, 'Walk through the Mavericks, that's who you want to play," Terry said. "OK. We'll see if that's who you want to play."
........GO MAVS
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02-28-2009, 11:59 AM
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#40
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinylstar
Agreed. No one else in the NBA can be as manhandled as Dirk on the perimeter without a foul. It is baffling to me.
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i don't think that's really true. i think most bigs get reffed that way on the perimeter. the difference is that most bigs out there will be looking for the mismatch elsewhere (i.e. if there is a smaller/quicker guy crowding them, there is a bigger/slower player guarding someone else on the floor).
a small on Dirk is already a mismatch so he's still looking to score.
i think the ideal way to beat it is for dirk to give the ball up, then post the player up and get the ball back before the defense has an opportunity to switch.
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