Should the Mavs try to get another big body?

[Simon2]

With Dirk and Fortson out, Bradley is the only guy taller than 6'10. Should the Mavs get someone to shore up the middle? If you can live with a lot of small ball, this lineup is ok I guess. I guess this lineup gives Howard and Jamison a lot of minutes and that is a good thing. On the other hand, the Mavs will have a problem rebounding the ball. Another big guy, provides insurance. I'm on the fence with this topic. Wang maybe? Just for fouls?

[sike]

Wang maybe? Just for fouls?

no, not even for fouls.....

and just so you know, this mavericks team is the fourth best rebounding team in the league....yes they still get out boarded, but this team is not last year's...this one has a whole new set of problems...like winning on the road!

Dirk will be back soon as will Fortson, no need to make a deal for in the mean time....they will be back soon....I'd be more worried with getting these guys to gel than finding a fill in rebounder!

[Simon2]

Originally posted by: sike

no, not even for fouls.....

and just so you know, this mavericks team is the fourth best rebounding team in the league....yes they still get out boarded, but this team is not last year's...this one has a whole new set of problems...like winning on the road!

Dirk will be back soon as will Fortson, no need to make a deal for in the mean time....they will be back soon....I'd be more worried with getting these guys to gel than finding a fill in rebounder!

I agree with you now. The "gelling" part is very important. My worry is if something like this happens in the playoffs. Do the Mavs really want to play with the Western conference powerhouses with Bradley as their only legitimate center?

[XERXES]

TextWith Dirk and Fortson out, Bradley is the only guy taller than 6'10.

Fortson is 6'8...but I get your point.

The Mavs will be making (and taking) calls between now and the trade deadline...if a really good big man comes available (most likely b/c some team is out of the playoff race and trying to dump salary) for the "right price" the Mavs will jump on it. If not, they're content to ride out the season with what they have - which ain't too shabby.

[sike]

Originally posted by: Simon2

I agree with you now. The "gelling" part is very important. My worry is if something like this happens in the playoffs. Do the Mavs really want to play with the Western conference powerhouses with Bradley as their only legitimate center?

OHHHHHHHH, S2, did you mean for the trade deadline????cuz if that is what you meant..then absolutley they should be looking....I misundrstood you to mean for the moment(because Dirk is out and Fort is suspended)....no rash moves, but sure they should be looking for a servicible big man for the playoffs....but that is pretty far down the road.....who they will or should trade has been a topic of much discussion, but they just might want to make a deal around the deadline....but not before!

[dude1394]

The short answer is yes they could really use one. The question is whether you can really get another big guy that will be playing at all after fortson/dirk get back.

I actually think that fortson/bradley/dirk(at the end) is not a bad plan. Especially with the way that walker is rebounding and if jamison can keep up the efforts. Josh may get a LOT more playing time the way he's offensive boarding as well.

But unless shawn can get in better shape that's going to be a pretty low-minute group.

[u2sarajevo]

Originally posted by: dude1394
The short answer is yes they could really use one. The question is whether you can really get another big guy that will be playing at all after fortson/dirk get back.

I actually think that fortson/bradley/dirk(at the end) is not a bad plan. Especially with the way that walker is rebounding and if jamison can keep up the efforts. Josh may get a LOT more playing time the way he's offensive boarding as well.

But unless shawn can get in better shape that's going to be a pretty low-minute group.

I think they >could< if the price was right. The question is are we willing to pay the price. I think it is doubtful that we could get a big man without giving up a key role player AND Fortson (or Bradley, but I would refuse to do that deal).

[Simon2]

Originally posted by: sike

OHHHHHHHH, S2, did you mean for the trade deadline????cuz if that is what you meant..then absolutley they should be looking....I misundrstood you to mean for the moment(because Dirk is out and Fort is suspended)....no rash moves, but sure they should be looking for a servicible big man for the playoffs....but that is pretty far down the road.....who they will or should trade has been a topic of much discussion, but they just might want to make a deal around the deadline....but not before!

Then again, if you are going to deal at the trade deadline, that leaves less time for the new people to get acquainted with the system.

[dude1394]

Well I think we would have to look at giving up fortson or bradley for another big man that could combine a lot of what they do.

Right now the mavs bigs are really one-dimensional. If bradley had more wind then I still think he can be effective for about 25 minutes which is about right.

[EricaLubarsky]

do we need another big man? yes.

Will anyone want Fortson? probably not

Should we shop Bradley? Heck no! He is playing some incredible basketball and he is a vital part of our system.

[Psychedelic Fuzz]

Another big body would be nice, the rationale that we need another in case Dirk gets hurt and Fort gets suspended simultaneously in the playoffs is a little flawed. I wouldn't make any deal unless it is another no-brainer, and wouldn't sign another big just to be signing one.

[LRB]

The Mavs need another big NBA center body. We definitely should not consider giving up Bradley unless we're A) getting a serious upgrade, i.e. a legitimate elite team starting center or B) getting at least 2 very high quality backup centers. I don't mind giving up Fort's 6'8"* to get a 6'11"+ NBA center sized player with decent skills. The potato is strong and has a lot of weight to throw around, but his lack of height kills us when he tries to provide help defense from the center position. Right now Shawn and Dirk are our only two legitimate shot blockers and players who can provide good or better help defense from the center position. I think we need a third.








* the asterick denotes that this is noly in platform high tops.

[Shaq Attack2]

It doesn't have to be a center, just a big man period. A couple 26-30 year old PF/Cs with good jump shots would be great for the Mavs.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Shaq Attack2
It doesn't have to be a center, just a big man period. A couple 26-30 year old PF/Cs with good jump shots would be great for the Mavs.

SA2, I don't care if people call him a PG if he's 6'11" + and a solid 240lbs +. And we don't necessarily need a great or even decent postup game. A jump shot game would work OK now that Tawn and Toine to help with low post scoring. What we need is a defensive help defender with at least a decent shot blocking prescense.

[sike]

I love the Davis boys....big, atheletic, defensive minded and full of tude......give one of them and that'll be just fine....

[LRB]

Sike with the recent Toronto/Chicargo trade that leaves only one that league rules will allow us to get in the near future. But I don't see Portland doing a trade to help a contender in their conference. Our best bet are unsigned FA's or a trade with someone in the east. Next would be a lottery headed team in the west.

Remember we don't need anyone as good as Dale Davis, although that would be nice. We just need someone who can make a difference defensively with help defense and shot blocking and clogging up the middle for 10 or 15 minutes a game.

[sike]

if were going to do a deal.....it might as well be for someone of value.....we dont need a worhtless big,....we need a skill big man..someone who would be good enough to make Bradley a role player and Fortson a memory....we need talent...yeah that would be nice.

[LRB]

While that would be nice Sike, it's hardly the most realistic outlook. And we can get by with a lot less. What we need is a role player, pure and simple. Someone who can come in a fill the center spot for a few minutes.

Look at the bulls during their championship runs. There centers, even Cartwright who as the best by far, were nothing more than role players. Some Wennington, Long, Longley, Purdue, Williams, etc. were nothing more than career roleplayers. Others Salley, Parish, Cartwright, Edwards, etc. had had at one time filled more staring roles on teams in the past. But the Bulls just needed roleplayers good enough to keep from getting abused in the middle by so much to overshadow their considerable talent at other positions.

The Mavs have stupendous talent at postions 1 - 4. All we need is some good role players to fill in at the 5. We have Bradley, and he is a great roleplayer, but he's not enough. Najera and Fortson are too undersized to be used extensively and still hope to get the job done. And we sure as hell don't want to reduce our best player to a role player by forcing Dirk to play extensive minutes at the 5.

No all we need is just some big bodies with just enough talent to fill the role. The Bulls are the perfect example of a champion who did this. Another example, but at the 4 spot was what the Lakers did with Rambis and later AC Green. The Sixers did it with Ivaroni.

We need a role player because getting a star, unless we can convince Sabonis to join us out of free agency, is just going to cost too much or isn't realistic to obtain no matter what.

[EricaLubarsky]

*cough* Chris Mihm *cough*

[MikeB]

The answer to the question is unabashedly, "YES!". I don't believe we need to trade for anybody...the only people we are really willing to trade--nobody else wants either....so unless Atlanta calls and asks if we want Ratliff or Mohammed for Abdul-Wahad and Fortson I don't think we will be trading for a big man.
What we need to do is the same thing that other teams seem to do so well....find a big body in the NBDL or overseas(No..not a slim 6'7 SF from France). Denver went and got Ellson and while he is not a star player he does fill that role. What we secretly all know is that Nellie doesn't want and wouldn't play a guy like Ellson because of his love of uptempo small ball so we will continue to want what Nellie will not give us. The 15th spot is still available for that very need...hopefully we can pick up some more size who if nothing else can take up space defensively and get some defensive rebounds,

[LRB]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
*cough* Chris Mihm *cough*

Yes I'd like Mihm, so long as we don't have to give up too much to get him. Actually I think that we could get by with less talent than Mihm.

[Five-ofan]

Ive always thought that keon clark would fit the mavs perfectly. Just not sure that we could get him. I think that a first rd pick would have gotten him but we have already traded ours. However, an athletic 6-11 guy with long arms and a decent 18 ft jumper is exactly what I think you guys are talking about.

[LRB]

Keon only looks good when playing against the Mavs and then only sometimes. Playing with them, all his faults would readily be exposed. He's just not big enough weight wise. He gets pushed around too easily. He does have a better offensive game than a lot of the big men out there, but offense is not what we need most.

[u2sarajevo]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
*cough* Chris Mihm *cough*

I would love to get Mihm.... and I promise it has little (*crosses fingers behind back*) to do with my Longhorn ties.

If he could learn from Bradley(how to stay out of the Nellie doghouse), that would be quite awesome I think.

[Five-ofan]

Ive always thought that keon clark would fit the mavs perfectly. Just not sure that we could get him. I think that a first rd pick would have gotten him but we have already traded ours. However, an athletic 6-11 guy with long arms and a decent 18 ft jumper is exactly what I think you guys are talking about.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Five-ofan
Ive always thought that keon clark would fit the mavs perfectly. Just not sure that we could get him. I think that a first rd pick would have gotten him but we have already traded ours. However, an athletic 6-11 guy with long arms and a decent 18 ft jumper is exactly what I think you guys are talking about.

Is it just me or is there a 38 minute delayed echo in here? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

[Maringa]

I pushed for Pedrag Drobnjak over the summer. It's too late now, we could have signed him cheaply. He has a decent outside shot...40% on 3 pointers ( although a shade under 40% overall shooting). He's a good free throw shooter, and is averaging over 11 pts/game in 27 minutes. He would have been serviceable, and would have provided us a cushion for when one center goes down or gets suspended. Does anyone know if we are going to be without Fortson for the Lakers game next week? It's going to be tough without Dirk and Fortson....

[dude1394]

[i] What we secretly all know is that Nellie doesn't want and wouldn't play a guy like Ellson because of his love of uptempo small ball so we will continue to want what Nellie will not give us. The 15th spot is still available for that very need...hopefully we can pick up some more size who if nothing else can take up space defensively and get some defensive rebounds,

Pretty unfair criticism isn't it? I don't think bradley/fortson are exactly gazelles out there.

[LRB]

Pretty unfair criticism isn't it? I don't think bradley/fortson are exactly gazelles out there.

LOL. Funny image comes to mind.


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[sike]

seriously, what does Mihm bring that we don't already have????

[LRB]

Originally posted by: sike
seriously, what does Mihm bring that we don't already have????

4" more than anybody that we have to play center that doesn't have a German citizenship.

[sike]

4" and soft stiff...great, we need more stiffs.....(no not stiffies).....[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[LRB]

Try this on for size then. Mihm is averaging over 1.5 rebounds more per game than Fortson and 2.9 rebounds more per game while still averaging better than 1 rebound every 3 minutes the golden standard of rebounders. Fortson averages slight more per minute but plays much less minutes.

Is averaging over 50% and scoring 8.3 points per game. Over 3 times what the potato is scoring and more than Eddie and the potato combined. Fortson shoots a higher percentage but rarely takes a shot farther than 2 feet from the basket.

Shoots over 70% from the FT line. 21.1 % better than Eddie and and 12.8% better than the potato.

Has gone to the line 38 times, 8 more than Fortson(12) and Eddie(18) combined.

Averages 1.09 blocked shots per game in just over 18 minutes of playing time. Over twice as much as either Eddie or the Potato and would place him 2nd to only Dirk on the Mavs. Bradley is averaging just 1.07 blocks in 11.2 minutes per game.

So we would get an excellent rebounder with enough offense for Nellie to leave on the court and good enough FT shooting to leave on the court in the closing minutes and not get killed if the other team fouled him. We get another shot blocker. Very good size, 7' 265lbs.

Of course Cleveland would be complete idiots to let us have him for any combination of the guys that we can trade who aren't members of the Big 5 or Bradley.

[sike]

so in other words LRB, we would be getting a totally average player......sorry, not interested. When I think of what they need, names like Eddie and FOrtson to not come up as players I want to use as comparisons....
they need someone who will have an impact...
I guess maybe what I'm saying is I am willing to trade Walker or Jamison if that would get an a big who would make a difference... an impact player....not an All Star, but more than Eddie, Fort, or Mihm or Bradley...if a trade of one of those two or a package will get that here then I am all for that!.....not a Mihm hater, but looking for more....

[Maringa]

I like the idea of Mihm as some have mentioned. But to not be laughed off the board....After reading a few articles, it seems that Darko Milicic is struggling with his new surroundings. He does not fit an immediate need, but since his current value is low, wouldn't it be interesting if we could get him on the cheap? Larry Brown is annihilating the kid's self esteem. I think surrounding Milicic with Nellie, Donnie, and with Dirk/Nash, etc. this kid could pay dividends in the future. It may be impossible to get this kid (2nd pick in the draft), but wouldn't it be interesting? I haven't speculated what it would take to get him, perhap's Cuban's first born?

[grndmstr_c]

I haven't speculated what it would take to get him, perhap's Cuban's first born?

And all of the inheritance that that impiles.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[LRB]

Originally posted by: sike
so in other words LRB, we would be getting a totally average player......sorry, not interested. When I think of what they need, names like Eddie and FOrtson to not come up as players I want to use as comparisons....
they need someone who will have an impact...
I guess maybe what I'm saying is I am willing to trade Walker or Jamison if that would get an a big who would make a difference... an impact player....not an All Star, but more than Eddie, Fort, or Mihm or Bradley...if a trade of one of those two or a package will get that here then I am all for that!.....not a Mihm hater, but looking for more....

I would hardly call Mihm average. While he's definitely not star quality, he's above average for a center. And I wouldn't give up any of the Big 5 or Bradley to get Mihm. Anyone else that we can trade is fair game. Remember that excludes our rookies, we can't trade them by NBA and collective bargaining fiat.

If we could take our spares and get just an average center, it would be a great deal. I don't see it happening. FA is our best place to look. Again, we're not going to get someone that good. But we don't need someone that good. Look back at some of the stats for the Bulls centers during their 6 years of titles. Nobody really stands out, but they were good enough to get the job done. They were tall, decent sized (ie not skinny), but were either career spares or washed up stars. That's all we need. Think about it would you rather have a 6'8" spare in the middle or a 7'0" spare?

[madape]

I wouldn't be suprised if a certain hall of fame center joined the team for a playoff run.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: madape
I wouldn't be suprised if a certain hall of fame center joined the team for a playoff run.

Just so long as it isn't Wes Unseld. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[bogey]

Hakeem?