Deron & Dwight & Carmelo Appreciation Thread - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

sefant77 · 01-05-2015, 10:39 PM

Thank you guys. I really want to thank you. Your decisions made this happen!

Im really loving this team and im so confident that this is the starting five for Dirks final years of contending.

So much talent and the really important thing: Its a freaking team. No egos, no divas, no bullshit. Dallas Mavs aka die Mannschaft

Thank you again! I hope you are enjoying your stays in Brooklyn, New York and Houston...

Vinsanity · 01-05-2015, 10:44 PM

lol yes. We really owe those guys. What a great team this front office has assembled. We should all be grateful, especially Dirk.

Underdog · 01-05-2015, 10:49 PM

Plan Powder FTW.

howdoesmydirktaste · 01-05-2015, 10:53 PM

I agree. Our perceived "whiff" on all of those translated to this roster. There were times that I started to lose faith in plan powder. It got frustrating, but this squad has the talent and the coach to do something special. It may not happen this year, but I feel it's only a matter of time. Does anyone feel like Cuban isn't going to go over the cap to re-sign these guys? I think he's going to go over the cap in a heartbeat.

dude1394 · 01-05-2015, 11:35 PM

I love this thread!

mqywaaah · 01-06-2015, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I love this thread!

I second

j0Shi · 01-06-2015, 09:32 AM

Like it! Rep+

BUT to be honest, I would've taken Deron and Dwight back then. Not Carmelo though.

dude1394 · 01-06-2015, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j0Shi

Like it! Rep+

BUT to be honest, I would've taken Deron and Dwight back then. Not Carmelo though.

So would the mbt, it was "the plan". That is why this is such a great thread.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-06-2015, 10:06 AM

Don't forget to add in Danny Ainge and Phil Jackson. Swell guys...just swell.

Skywalker · 01-06-2015, 10:16 AM

Not sure if this point has ever been brought up around here but perhaps we shouldn't have dismantled the title team...

Melonhead · 01-06-2015, 10:20 AM

At the time, really wanted Deron. Didnt think he was the best PG, but I thought he was the best PG at the time within grasp. Never wanted Dwight or Carmelo in Dallas, and nice to see they didnt want Dallas either.

jthig32 · 01-06-2015, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skywalker

Not sure if this point has ever been brought up around here but perhaps we shouldn't have dismantled the title team...

Well you wouldn't have this team, or anything close to it if you hadn't. So...

GhostFace · 01-06-2015, 11:16 AM

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to sefant77 again.

Skywalker · 01-06-2015, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well you wouldn't have this team, or anything close to it if you hadn't. So...

Scoobay · 01-06-2015, 11:43 AM

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to sefant77 again.

jthig32 · 01-06-2015, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skywalker

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-06-2015, 12:01 PM

I still have to pinch myself when I look at the box score and see who the starters are.

dude1394 · 01-06-2015, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well you wouldn't have this team, or anything close to it if you hadn't. So...

possibly true but you may have had another one of those bright shiny things that cuban likes to whizz with.

endrity · 01-06-2015, 12:17 PM

Chandler was the big mistake, he wanted to stay too and a reasonable contract would have kept him here. With him and Dirk we were set, filling the rest of the roster would have been easy. Still, glad to see Dirk be part of the 4th elite team by my count - the 03 team, the 06-07 teams, the 10-11 teams, and this. Everytime I think Cuban screwed up he and Donnie have always managed to reload around Dirk within a year or two, usually by replacing pretty much everybody.

sefant77 · 01-06-2015, 12:24 PM

Reasonable contract? He asked and wanted his 15m. He also declined one year 20m because he wanted the big money

So there is no way he was going to stay on a "reasonable" contract. Barea was a minimum guy, him getting 3/15 somewhere was a jackpot for him. Butler got a three year contract and wasnt worth it after a year. Same goes a year later with Terry...

Dirkadirkastan · 01-06-2015, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I still have to pinch myself when I look at the box score and see who the starters are.

Almost makes up for Devin coming off the bench, right?

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-06-2015, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Almost makes up for Devin coming off the bench, right?

Almost...

Rondo is a obviously worthy starter...Jameer wasn't.

endrity · 01-06-2015, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Reasonable contract? He asked and wanted his 15m. He also declined one year 20m because he wantes the big money

So there is no way he was going to stay on a "reasonable" contract. Barea was a minimum guy, him getting 3/15 somewhere was a jackpot for him. Butler got a three year contract and wasnt worth it after a year. Same goes a year later with Terry...

That's what we are paying him now, in the last year of his contract. Seems to me like he is well worth it. Probably would have been more so in the 3 years he didn't even play here and during which he was also younger.

Reference http://hoopshype.com/salaries/dallas.htm

hayth.james.g · 01-06-2015, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endrity

That's what we are paying him now, in the last year of his contract. Seems to me like he is well worth it. Probably would have been more so in the 3 years he didn't even play here and during which he was also younger.

Reference http://hoopshype.com/salaries/dallas.htm

I'm in agreement. The 1 for 20 was offered b/c Cuban had questions (rightfully so at the time) on what the new CA would do. We knew there would be a much harsher and restrictive luxury tax. In hindsight I think everyone would of preferred Tyson to stay even at 15 per. The reality is Cuban took the safer, more flexible route. In the long run it has paid off, but on the point of Tyson it was a misstep.

Either way I'm thankful to be in the position we are in. Early bird rights on Ellis, full rights on Rondo and Chandler, and Parsons nailed down for at least one more year.

LSMF · 01-06-2015, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I still have to pinch myself when I look at the box score and see who the starters are.

Donnie Nelson for NBA Executive of The Year? Or would that be a stretch?

Underdog · 01-06-2015, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSMF

Donnie Nelson for NBA Executive of The Year? Or would that be a stretch?

Calderon/Harris/Mekel/Larkin
Ellis/Carter/Ellington
Marion/Crowder/Ledo
Dirk/Blair
Dalembert/Wright/James

Rondo/Harris/Felton
Ellis/Barea/Ledo
Parsons/Jefferson
Dirk/Aminu/Villanueva
Chandler/Smith/Powell

And he probably has another move or two up his sleeve...

sefant77 · 01-06-2015, 02:45 PM

Additional he just gave up one future 1st. Thats huge too in such a roster transformation. Billy King gave up three to aquire PP and KG...

mac222b · 01-06-2015, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSMF

Donnie Nelson for NBA Executive of The Year? Or would that be a stretch?

No stretch at all. Amazing roster transformation

Day1MavsFan · 01-06-2015, 03:16 PM

I have to weigh in here. If the championship team would have been kept together the odds of winning another ring would have been greater than they are now.
I understood at the time what Cuban was thinking, i.e., that he could have his cake and eat it too. He thought that after winning the championship that any and all free agents would want to come here and that Dwight and Darren coming would be a no-brainer for them. What he didn't count on was Dwight stupidly opting in for that last year in Orlando. My thought back then was that Cuban had earned the right to do whatever he wanted and that those free agents probably would come here.
In hindsight, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, and that is what he should have realized. Bringing everybody back on four year deals, except Jason Kidd, would've made for a very formidable roster that would have competed for a championship the past four years. Sure they would've been over the cap, but we also would've been able to acquire players at the veteran minimum. It's very likely that we would've gotten Devin Harris and why wouldn't Ray Allen have wanted to come here, instead of Miami? I realize that Shawn Marion and Jason Terry would have not been the same, but they still would've been pretty useful in 2012 and 2013. A healthy Caron Butler would have also helped. The main difference is that you would've had prime Dirk instead of aging Dirk.
So, now we have a really good roster with some youth and players in their prime (Parsons, Rondo, Monta), but our superstar is well past his prime. Who knows what will happen. Maybe we can win again this year or next, but I don't think the odds of that are as good as winning one in 2012 or 2013 would have been under the above scenario. More importantly, we could've had plan powder for next year. And, after having been so competitive for so many years, perhaps those free agents we've been coveting for so long, would be more enticed to join a perennial champion/contender in 2015. Who is to say that we couldn't have acquired Rondo in free agency this summer? In my mind, we'd then only be a year or two behind on plan powder.
So, even if we didn't win another championship in the last four years, but we were in the Western Conference finals or NBA finals every year, then the Mavericks brand/reputation/following would be so much greater than it is now. An opportunity was lost to really elevate this franchise in peoples minds across the world. A more popular, recognized, accomplished franchise attracts more free agents in the future. That's the real crime of breaking up the championship team, in my mind. While I derive no less pleasure from it, it is really the forgotten championship from a non-local perspective.
Just thought I'd go on record before we see what happens with this new group. If they win two championships in the next two or three years, only then do I think we could say that plan powder was definitively a success.

howdoesmydirktaste · 01-06-2015, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day1MavsFan

I have to weigh in here. If the championship team would have been kept together the odds of winning another ring would have been greater than they are now.
I understood at the time what Cuban was thinking, i.e., that he could have his cake and eat it too. He thought that after winning the championship that any and all free agents would want to come here and that Dwight and Darren coming would be a no-brainer for them. What he didn't count on was Dwight stupidly opting in for that last year in Orlando. My thought back then was that Cuban had earned the right to do whatever he wanted and that those free agents probably would come here.
In hindsight, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, and that is what he should have realized. Bringing everybody back on four year deals, except Jason Kidd, would've made for a very formidable roster that would have competed for a championship the past four years. Sure they would've been over the cap, but we also would've been able to acquire players at the veteran minimum. It's very likely that we would've gotten Devin Harris and why wouldn't Ray Allen have wanted to come here, instead of Miami? I realize that Shawn Marion and Jason Terry would have not been the same, but they still would've been pretty useful in 2012 and 2013. A healthy Caron Butler would have also helped. The main difference is that you would've had prime Dirk instead of aging Dirk.
So, now we have a really good roster with some youth and players in their prime (Parsons, Rondo, Monta), but our superstar is well past his prime. Who knows what will happen. Maybe we can win again this year or next, but I don't think the odds of that are as good as winning one in 2012 or 2013 would have been under the above scenario. More importantly, we could've had plan powder for next year. And, after having been so competitive for so many years, perhaps those free agents we've been coveting for so long, would be more enticed to join a perennial champion/contender in 2015. Who is to say that we couldn't have acquired Rondo in free agency this summer? In my mind, we'd then only be a year or two behind on plan powder.
So, even if we didn't win another championship in the last four years, but we were in the Western Conference finals or NBA finals every year, then the Mavericks brand/reputation/following would be so much greater than it is now. An opportunity was lost to really elevate this franchise in peoples minds across the world. A more popular, recognized, accomplished franchise attracts more free agents in the future. That's the real crime of breaking up the championship team, in my mind. While I derive no less pleasure from it, it is really the forgotten championship from a non-local perspective.
Just thought I'd go on record before we see what happens with this new group. If they win two championships in the next two or three years, only then do I think we could say that plan powder was definitively a success.

We'll never know if we would have repeated. It's a worthy debate though . . . . that has been beaten to death several times on this site.

I'm really excited about this squad. We may not win a championship with it because the West is much more difficult than I've ever seen it. And had we not "struck out" on our FA targets, this team would have never come together.

Since the Rondo trade our offensive and defensive numbers are much more in line with what our championship team was. Although our championship team was ranked 10. This team since the trade is rated 6th. Should be a fun season.

hayth.james.g · 01-06-2015, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day1MavsFan

I have to weigh in here. If the championship team would have been kept together the odds of winning another ring would have been greater than they are now.
I understood at the time what Cuban was thinking, i.e., that he could have his cake and eat it too. He thought that after winning the championship that any and all free agents would want to come here and that Dwight and Darren coming would be a no-brainer for them. What he didn't count on was Dwight stupidly opting in for that last year in Orlando. My thought back then was that Cuban had earned the right to do whatever he wanted and that those free agents probably would come here.
In hindsight, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, and that is what he should have realized. Bringing everybody back on four year deals, except Jason Kidd, would've made for a very formidable roster that would have competed for a championship the past four years. Sure they would've been over the cap, but we also would've been able to acquire players at the veteran minimum. It's very likely that we would've gotten Devin Harris and why wouldn't Ray Allen have wanted to come here, instead of Miami? I realize that Shawn Marion and Jason Terry would have not been the same, but they still would've been pretty useful in 2012 and 2013. A healthy Caron Butler would have also helped. The main difference is that you would've had prime Dirk instead of aging Dirk.
So, now we have a really good roster with some youth and players in their prime (Parsons, Rondo, Monta), but our superstar is well past his prime. Who knows what will happen. Maybe we can win again this year or next, but I don't think the odds of that are as good as winning one in 2012 or 2013 would have been under the above scenario. More importantly, we could've had plan powder for next year. And, after having been so competitive for so many years, perhaps those free agents we've been coveting for so long, would be more enticed to join a perennial champion/contender in 2015. Who is to say that we couldn't have acquired Rondo in free agency this summer? In my mind, we'd then only be a year or two behind on plan powder.
So, even if we didn't win another championship in the last four years, but we were in the Western Conference finals or NBA finals every year, then the Mavericks brand/reputation/following would be so much greater than it is now. An opportunity was lost to really elevate this franchise in peoples minds across the world. A more popular, recognized, accomplished franchise attracts more free agents in the future. That's the real crime of breaking up the championship team, in my mind. While I derive no less pleasure from it, it is really the forgotten championship from a non-local perspective.
Just thought I'd go on record before we see what happens with this new group. If they win two championships in the next two or three years, only then do I think we could say that plan powder was definitively a success.

I don't think we could of signed Rondo this summer. Not enough space without giving up Ellis or Tyson Chandler. These players still have cap holds even though we have their bird rights (unless we decline those rights). Because of the trade we can keep Rondo + Ellis + Parsons + Dirk + Chandler. What a thing of beaut.

Also, I don't know what world you live if you think Dallas championship is the forgotten championship. We had almost the entire nation pulling for Lebron to lose. Dirk's entire legacy was cemented with that ring. No idea where you drew that conclusion.

As far as the rest it all kind of makes sense to me. I don't agree necessarily with everything, but to each their own. As HowDoesMyDirkTaste, its a conversation that has gone round and round. There is merit to both sides perspective. I don't think Cuban was necessarily thinking we were the "prime" destination for superstars, he just had a vision of what NBA free agency would look like in the post new CBA world. I think many people forgot the uncertainty of what that off season felt like going in. Either way I'm going to avoid staying on that topic as its just too beaten to death at this point. +1 for the OP tho.

lonestar6 · 01-06-2015, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day1MavsFan

I have to weigh in here. If the championship team would have been kept together the odds of winning another ring would have been greater than they are now.

The odds would have been greater, but it doesn't necessarily mean they would have been good. Dirk's level did drop a bit the following 2 seasons (where he missed over a half a season's worth of games in total) because of his knee issues, and that would have happened irregardless of what the Mavs did with the roster. Combined with the aging roster, compressed schedule in the 2011/2012 hangover season, and stronger competition I don't think it was likely they would have found that same edge again. Letting Tyson go was a big mistake, but I'm not going to go as far as to say that cost the Mavs another championship.

Anyway, I'm now happy with the way the roster turned out (am a huge fan of Rondo's game...I'm still stunned the Mavs were able to get him). Maybe it wasn't "planned" with all the big name whiffs, but I think in this league you sometimes need a bit of good luck in addition to solid strategy. If Mark is willing to go over the cap to keep everyone, this roster should be serious contenders for the duration of Dirk's (probably) last contract.

howdoesmydirktaste · 01-06-2015, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonestar6

The odds would have been greater, but it doesn't necessarily mean they would have been good. Dirk's level did drop a bit the following 2 seasons (where he missed over a half a season's worth of games in total) because of his knee issues, and that would have happened irregardless of what the Mavs did with the roster. Combined with the aging roster, compressed schedule in the 2011/2012 hangover season, and stronger competition I don't think it was likely they would have found that same edge again. Letting Tyson go was a big mistake, but I'm not going to go as far as to say that cost the Mavs another championship.

Anyway, I'm now happy with the way the roster turned out (am a huge fan of Rondo's game...I'm still stunned the Mavs were able to get him). Maybe it wasn't "planned" with all the big name whiffs, but I think in this league you sometimes need a bit of good luck in addition to solid strategy. If Mark is willing to go over the cap to keep everyone, this roster should be serious contenders for the duration of Dirk's (probably) last contract.

I think that's a good assessment.

dude1394 · 01-06-2015, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Reasonable contract? He asked and wanted his 15m. He also declined one year 20m because he wanted the big money

So there is no way he was going to stay on a "reasonable" contract. Barea was a minimum guy, him getting 3/15 somewhere was a jackpot for him. Butler got a three year contract and wasnt worth it after a year. Same goes a year later with Terry...

Which he was worth, but plan powder and deron williams was too much to pass up.

I also would like to state for the record that i did not start this stuff.

dude1394 · 01-06-2015, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonestar6

The odds would have been greater, but it doesn't necessarily mean they would have been good. Dirk's level did drop a bit the following 2 seasons (where he missed over a half a season's worth of games in total) because of his knee issues, and that would have happened irregardless of what the Mavs did with the roster. Combined with the aging roster, compressed schedule in the 2011/2012 hangover season, and stronger competition I don't think it was likely they would have found that same edge again. Letting Tyson go was a big mistake, but I'm not going to go as far as to say that cost the Mavs another championship.

Anyway, I'm now happy with the way the roster turned out (am a huge fan of Rondo's game...I'm still stunned the Mavs were able to get him). Maybe it wasn't "planned" with all the big name whiffs, but I think in this league you sometimes need a bit of good luck in addition to solid strategy. If Mark is willing to go over the cap to keep everyone, this roster should be serious contenders for the duration of Dirk's (probably) last contract.

I dont see how/why the odds wouldnt have been excellent. I think we take oklahoma and i dont recall who else was so much stronger. We would have been able to sit dirk more with a decent team instead of just trying to make the playoffs.

I still am amazed that the best team in the world is given so little respect when it comes to defending.

THAT is why some people feel the championship team gets so little respect, even our owner thought we were just lucky.

OKC beat US, Lakers and Spurs to get there. I cannot believe that we would have been competitive with any of those teams.

endrity · 01-07-2015, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I dont see how/why the odds wouldnt have been excellent. I think we take oklahoma and i dont recall who else was so much stronger. We would have been able to sit dirk more with a decent team instead of just trying to make the playoffs.

I still am amazed that the best team in the world is given so little respect when it comes to defending.

THAT is why some people feel the championship team gets so little respect, even our owner thought we were just lucky.

OKC beat US, Lakers and Spurs to get there. I cannot believe that we would have been competitive with any of those teams.

My thinking throughout the 2011 Playoffs was that we did catch a bit of a lightning in a bottle with that team. Dirk was just playing amazing bball at the time and it lifted the whole team. But I was absolutely sure we'd lose to the Lakers and the Heat before those series began.

On the other hand, the team at the beginning of the season, with a healthy Caron and Haywood was amazing. That team was arguably the best we ever had, and I was feeling very confident that the team would make some serious noise in the playoffs. I was often asked if losing Caron proved to be an addition by substraction to the team and I always said no, with him we'd have been even more dominant. I remember us destroying the Heat when the season began in what seemed to be a signal game.

To make a long story short, I felt that the roster that began the 2010-11 season definetely deserved a second shot because when fully healthy it was truly great.

howdoesmydirktaste · 01-07-2015, 10:29 AM

It would have been cool to see what would have happened with that squad, but I also think that our odds of repeating weren't amazing. Not sure how the impact of keeping Chandler would have impacted the rest of the roster.

Like it was mentioned earlier, for better or worse, Cuban was trying to make moves to counter the new CBA. You can debate which ever side you choose, but the one thing that I will give Cuban credit for is that he's currently putting us in an amazing position to not have a big 3, but a big 5 (Rondo, Ellis, Parsons, Dirk, Chandler). I'm not sure how an owner could do any better than that in the new CBA (on paper). All he has to do is agree to go into the luxury tax. I think he will. How will that be long term? We will have to find out.

dude1394 · 01-07-2015, 01:15 PM

Just saying. For the record i agree with holger.

"Geschwindner: Forsure it made sense for Dirk to leave a few Dollars on the table to build a team that doesn’t stumble around hopelessly. The title in 2011 was very special because they had such great chemistry in the locker room which is not a common thing in the NBA. Tyson and JJ certainly would have liked to stay, but went to New York and Minnesota for different reasons. They’ve experienced how other organizations work. Now they're back and we all can sense, what might have been possible during the years following the championship. However, this ship has sailed. We do attack from scratch. "