Askrabic Info from ESPN Insider - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dooby · 06-11-2002, 11:51 AM

Stole this post from LMF (emphasis is mine):

ESPN insider says the Mavs worked out Askrabic on Monday. He reportedly averaged 15.9 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 2.9 assists and shot an amazing 73% from the field for FMP Zeleznik last year.

The ever present anonymous "international scout" said he would be a high lottery pick if he was in this year's draft and would be a serious contender for rookie of the year. He was called a Peja Stojakovic clone.

The Mavs are reportedly willing to give a big portion of their mid-level exception, but that the Pistons, Spurs, Sixers, Lakers, Blazers and Bulls were also contenders.

That is some serious hype. Hopefully we will see him in the world championships, but I haven't seen any mention that he is on the Yugoslav national team.

Dooby · 06-11-2002, 11:55 AM

Worthwhile info:

1) The Mavs worked out Askrabic on Monday.

2) He would be a high lottery pick if he was in this year's draft.

3) serious contender for rookie of the year.

4) Peja Stojakovic clone.

5) The Mavs are reportedly willing to give a big portion of their mid-level exception.

Murphy3 · 06-11-2002, 11:57 AM

if he IS all of that, then yeah..bring the guy in
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FilthyFinMavs · 06-11-2002, 11:58 AM

Peja clone? Ive heard enough right there lets sign this guy as soon as possible. I dont see why he would go to Trailblazers or the Bulls I Think we are at the top of that list of getting him. Hopefully we can snag him. Damn 73%? Nice post Doobie.

Dooby · 06-11-2002, 12:02 PM

Murph, remember that rediculous discussion we had on this?

I still am not sure I like using 1/2 or all the mid-level exception on this guy. Effectively, we are buying a draft pick. I have no problem with that.

How much simpler would life have been if we had drafted him with one of our second rounders last year and left him in Euro-land to develope?

Murphy3 · 06-11-2002, 12:05 PM

i don't know dooby.. he sounds too good to be true...maybe it is too good to be true.
we won't know until he comes in.

maybe he can step in and play 15-20 minutes. i don't know enough about the guy right now. i'll leave it up to donnie.

however, if they sign the guy and he's the real deal, i still want the mavs to address their issues with interior defense

Dooby · 06-11-2002, 12:09 PM

<< maybe he can step in and play 15-20 minutes. i don't know enough about the guy right now. i'll leave it up to donnie.

however, if they sign the guy and he's the real deal, i still want the mavs to address their issues with interior defense >>

If all this is true, I suspect the Mavs plan on playing him more than that 15-20.

If we toss 1/2 the exception at Askrebic, there is no way that I see to improve the interior defense, other than trade. I still think a trade for quality big man help is unlikely.

Dooby · 06-11-2002, 12:11 PM

Looks to me like we are, yet again, adding "one more shooter". Near as I can tell he would take minutes away from Griff/Buck and NVE. Which makes a NVE trade more likely.

Murphy3 · 06-11-2002, 12:12 PM

if he can step in and play MORE than 15-20 minutes, i think it would make the possibility of the mavs making a trade to help their interior defense even more likely

Hoopsmeister · 06-11-2002, 12:43 PM

"if he is all that"--I can't figure out how he would go totally undrafted last year. A broken ankle doesn't seem to justify it.

OTOH--15.9ppg on 73% shooting!!!!

If he is 'all that' then he is our starting small forward. He takes minutes from Griffin/Buckner. And yes, he does take minutes from NVE--or maybe he takes them from Nash with Nellie using NVE to actually spell Nash and not simply to play small ball 2 pg-sets for half the game.

Dooby · 06-11-2002, 12:56 PM

<< "if he is all that"--I can't figure out how he would go totally undrafted last year. A broken ankle doesn't seem to justify it. >>

If he didn't get to work out for anybody, it makes some sense. I imagine last year that he dropped from a second round pick to undrafted. He is young. The thought of a second round pick jumping to lottery in one year based on potential and performance is not outrageous.

This part of the deal doesn't bother me.

Murphy3 · 06-11-2002, 01:04 PM

i find it difficult to believe that even a broken ankle would keep a guy from being drafted last year that would supposedly be drafted in the lottery this year.

but, i guess it COULD happen.

if that's the case with this guy and the mavs can sign him, good for the mavs
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TheKid · 06-11-2002, 01:05 PM

i don't know dooby.. he sounds too good to be true...maybe it is too good to be true.

My sentiments exactly... sounds TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE... This is what I want to know, with the exception of Detlef Shrempf, what international player has come into the NBA and made a HUGE impact their first year? I don't think Shrempf even did but I recall him being very good early on. Kukoc averaged 13 points but he didn't make a HUGE impact on the Bulls when he first came.

So I know how everyone is in love with some of these players from over season but people, atleast for this year and next we REALLY should be thinking of players that can impact NOW! I'm not saying it wouldn't be a bad thing to bring someone in who may be here in the long run but giving up our exception on a player who has YET to show he can adjust to the NBA.

Look at one of the best international players. Pedrovick who averaged 30 points in Europe, and his first season here, he didn't even average 10 points. NOW when he came around, he made a HUGE impact BUT it even took him time to adjust.

I say all of this to say, why are we spending so much time right now, bringing players over that won't be an impact for the Mavs for another two or three years. Also, we know how Nellie does, barring injury, Askrobic would NOT get much time this year other than garbage time or 10 minutes a game and we want to use our exception on that???

Dooby · 06-11-2002, 01:14 PM

<< This is what I want to know, with the exception of Detlef Shrempf, what international player has come into the NBA and made a HUGE impact their first year? >>

Well, Gasol was rookie of the year.

Tony Parker started for San Antonio this year.

I think Vlade was effective early.

I think your concern about the hype is valid. And I don't advocate this move. I just like the topic and try to keep the info out there.

But I answer your question this way: How many top 5 draft picks in the last few years or this upcoming year has made or will make a HUGE impact?

The NBA draft is all about potential these days. How is this any different. Except that we are trying to contend now, it isn't. But if the mid-level exception won't bring in anybody substantially better now or that has equal potential, I am not afraid to make this deal.

Dooby · 06-11-2002, 01:20 PM

Apparently, this little nugget was also in the Insider article: "The Mavs also took a look at 17-year-old phenom Darko Milicic, a 6-foot-11 center who international scouts are already calling the next great prospect from Europe."

Hoopsmeister · 06-11-2002, 01:27 PM

<< My sentiments exactly... sounds TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE... This is what I want to know, with the exception of Detlef Shrempf, what international player has come into the NBA and made a HUGE impact their first year? I don't think Shrempf even did but I recall him being very good early on. Kukoc averaged 13 points but he didn't make a HUGE impact on the Bulls when he first came. >>

Depends on what you mean by huge Kid. Gasol put up some very impressive numbers as ROY. And more to the point, Parker and Kirilenko were both significant contributors to playoff teams. The Mavs don't need someone to come in and be as good as the Big 3 (would be sweet though). They just need someone who can come in and be a competent starter like Parker and Kirilenko were for their teams.

<< I say all of this to say, why are we spending so much time right now, bringing players over that won't be an impact for the Mavs for another two or three years. Also, we know how Nellie does, barring injury, Askrobic would NOT get much time this year other than garbage time or 10 minutes a game and we want to use our exception on that??? >>

Dirk played 20 minutes a game as a 19-year old rookie. The way Nellie deals with American rookies is not necessarily a clear guide to what he will do with someone who has been playing professional ball in one of Europe's top leagues for 4 years.

FilthyFinMavs · 06-11-2002, 01:37 PM

Another thing that bothers me is that why does he only average 15 points a game under 73% shooting? I think someone would have drafted this guy even if he had a broken arm. He has to have a very bad weakness and its probaly his development or he doesent have very good handles. I want to hear more about him in the future hope u guyz post anything yall see on this guy.

Hoopsmeister · 06-11-2002, 01:40 PM

<< Another thing that bothers me is that why does he only average 15 points a game under 73% shooting? I think someone would have drafted this guy even if he had a broken arm. He has to have a very bad weakness and its probaly his development or he doesent have very good handles. I want to hear more about him in the future hope u guyz post anything yall see on this guy. >>

My initial assumption is that he must be a picky shooter. Given the other options on the Mavs, that would be a good thing on our team.

MavsFanFinley · 06-11-2002, 01:43 PM

Another thing that bothers me is that why does he only average 15 points a game under 73% shooting?

I'm only assuming on this, but I'd bet it has to do with the amount of shots he takes.

MavsFanFinley · 06-11-2002, 01:44 PM

Looks like I'm destined to be a minute too late behind Hoops all day.

*sigh*

Murphy3 · 06-11-2002, 01:44 PM

mavsfanfinley, i'm willing to bet that he doesn't average more points because of the amount of shots he takes..considering his fg%.

the question is, why didn'the shoot more?

TheKid · 06-11-2002, 01:58 PM

the question is, why didn'the shoot more?

That's a good question. Could it be because he may be like a Steve Kerr??? I don't know but yeah that does raise questions that he should 70% from the field and only averages 15 points a game???

Yeah I guess Gasol, Parker and Kirlenko were all impacts in my opinion however the one difference that they were able to get that they would probably not have gotten in Dallas is clock. All of those players averaged atleast 30 minutes a game. None of them (even though they're all extremely talented players) would not have gotten that time here in Dallas. (Well maybe Gasol would have gotten atleast 20 minutes a game)

That's my concern though, using your exception for 20 minutes or less a game. I mean we used it for Hardaway last year and it was so he could be Nash's primary back up and be utilized in small ball situations where he and Nash would be in the back court.

I don't know it kind of scares me. NOW if we could sign him for something like we signed Wang for, then I'm all for it actually I would applaud it, but to use our exception for someone that has been unproven.. For instance, I would feel more comfortable using the exception for someone like Oakley. He may not be the answer but he would help MORE in the area we need (toughness and interior defense) or a Malike Rose (which I understand wouldn't happen or couldn't happen under the CBA). However that's what I would like to use the exception on.

Dooby · 06-11-2002, 02:39 PM

Speaking of clock, what is the shot clock in euro-land? How many shots does the average star get in Euro-land per game?

Hoopsmeister · 06-11-2002, 02:40 PM

Well, Kid, first let's remember that unless Milos comes back by we are all talking about an essentially unknown.

I don't particularly care about any of the hype (though 73% shooting cannot be totally ignored). I am much more interested in the fact that Donnie apparently thinks he can contribute. And if Donnie thinks he can contribute enough to be worth the full exception, I am more than willing to give him a season to prove himself.

I think you are exagerating the minutes problem. Yes, Nellie doesn't play rookies much. But Dirk got 20 minutes a game. Webber got 30 minutes a game. Even Najera got plenty of time when he wasn't hurt last year. If Nellie believes a rookie is ready to contribute without making dumb mistakes, he will play him--and again, Askrabic is not some underclassmen come out early and drafted on pure potential. He has been playing professional ball in Yugoslavia for 5 years, i.e., at the highest level of basketball to be found outside the NBA.

So, yes, if Nellie spends half the exception on him and then brings him in and doesn't play him more than 10 minutes a game, I'll join you in howling to high heaven about it. But if they only think he's worth 10 minutes, I don't think Nellie and Donnie will spend that money on him. If they spend half the exception, I expect him to play 20 minutes a game at least.

I would hope we wouldn't waste any of the big exception on Oakley, though for the small exception he would be a nice pick-up. But Oakley is a one season band-aid. Askrabic is *potentially* the final piece to a permanent starting five that can play together for at least 3 or 4 years.

(And he's 6'9" with a seven-footers wingspan. Playing him, Dirk and Raef in a zone is a huge defensive improvement over all those small ball, 2 point guard sets of Nellies)

Nellie · 06-11-2002, 03:14 PM

Why is Askrabic listed under PF on eurobasket.com? We have been calling him a SF.

Hoopsmeister · 06-11-2002, 03:22 PM

<< Why is Askrabic listed under PF on eurobasket.com? We have been calling him a SF. >>

A few days ago, a poster named Milos who said he as from Serbia pointed out that Askrabic played PF in Yugoslavia. He also believed Askrabic was too slow to play the NBA 3.

Throw that in with all the other uncertainties about Askrabic--though, again, if Donnie tells me he's a small forward, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Nellie · 06-11-2002, 03:25 PM

<<

<< Why is Askrabic listed under PF on eurobasket.com? We have been calling him a SF. >>

A few days ago, a poster named Milos who said he as from Serbia pointed out that Askrabic played PF in Yugoslavia. He also believed Askrabic was too slow to play the NBA 3.

Throw that in with all the other uncertainties about Askrabic--though, again, if Donnie tells me he's a small forward, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. >>

Has Donnie said that or is just an educated guess on our part? I don't know, I'm just wanting to get caught up.

Hoopsmeister · 06-11-2002, 03:57 PM

<< Has Donnie said that or is just an educated guess on our part? I don't know, I'm just wanting to get caught up. >>

Not to my knowledge. Its all the NBA sites that list Askrabic as a sf which has people assuming.

Bayliss · 06-11-2002, 04:02 PM

[/i] >>

My initial assumption is that he must be a picky shooter. Given the other options on the Mavs, that would be a good thing on our team.[/i] >>

Can we stamp that on NVE's forehead?

And as far as Askrabic, he'll play small forward in the NBA (whichever team he gets signed by). He has the outside touch, wingspan, quickness, to play the 3... and while he's 6'9" (pretty average height for most 4's), he still would have to put on a lot of weight to play the 4 effectively.

(And I'm in the cornfield.... Annie? Did you hear that? "If you build it, he will come..." "Go the Distance.&quot

TheKid · 06-11-2002, 04:04 PM

Meister, I'm not really basing time off of whether these guys or Askrobic are talented enough or can warrant the minutes. I'm thinking more along the lines of the team and what our needs are and will he get enough minutes to show he can make an impact? This is the way I see it

Fin
Dirk
Steve
Will all play somewhere between 35-40 minutes a game

Raef (barring foul trouble)
Van Exel

Will play somewhere between 20-25 minutes a game. If they're on and causing major miss matches, they'll probably get more minutes.

Najera
Griffin
Buck

Will get somewhere between 15-20 minutes a game. With one of them probably get more because more than likely one of them will be in the starting lineup.

Wang
Bradley

Will get about 10 minutes or maybe not even that many.

Unless one of these guys go then I don't see exactly who would actually take a back seat to Ascrobic? Najera, Buck or Griff would probably get reduced minutes but those are our best defensive players so unless As.. is as good defensively would we really sit one of those guys down??? So the way I see it is he'll come here in replace of Manning or Newman and both of them gave us something when they played, but how much time did they really get? That's what I'm looking at.

Bayliss · 06-11-2002, 04:15 PM

Starting lineup:

Raef (30 minutes)
Dirk (40 minutes)
Griffin (20 minutes)
Finley (40 minutes)
Nash (30 minutes)

Now then, out of the 18 minutes at our center position we divide up between Wang, Esch, Bradley (whomever is more productive/available/whatever). With Dirk's 8 minutes you give to Najera. The 28 minutes for our small forward posisition should be 15-20 to Askrabic and 8-13 to Najera. Finley's 8 minutes should then go to Griffin. And the 18 minutes for Nash should go to the backup point guard.

Nellie · 06-11-2002, 04:15 PM

Unless all of our FA's (Najera, Buck, Wang, Raef) are back next year which I doubt, some minutes should be freed up for Askrabic.

Drbio · 06-11-2002, 04:26 PM

Askarabic will get minutes here regardless. He is the kind of guy Nellie loves.

Nellie · 06-11-2002, 04:28 PM

<< Askarabic will get minutes here regardless. He is the kind of guy Nellie loves. >>

Truth.

Nellie · 06-11-2002, 04:42 PM

I actualy agree with Murph's comments on the offseason. I agree, as do most in this thread, that Askrabic is intriguing. But if by offseason's end we have not improved interior defense, I will have a huge problem with having signed this guy.

Bayliss · 06-11-2002, 04:45 PM

Best interior defense is a good perimeter defense.

Nellie · 06-11-2002, 04:47 PM

<< Best interior defense is a good perimeter defense. >>

Are you suggesting that this will be Askrabic?

Bayliss · 06-11-2002, 04:52 PM

No.

What I am saying is that if we sure up our perimeter defense, and actually put pressure on the ballhandlers, whether it be shooting or passing into the post AND cut off penetration, then our interior defense won't be a problem.

Our interior defense is bad because they are constantly having to turn back 1s,2s, and 3s.

And like I said, the best interior defense is a good perimeter defense.

FilthyFinMavs · 06-11-2002, 05:13 PM

Buckner and Najera Griffen are also guys Nellie so anything can happen. I dont think he will ge over 15 minutes here especially with him being slow and plus if he cant play defense i doubt even 15 minutes. But if we are gonna sign Askrabic then what is the use of even devolping Wang? Because if Askrabic gets the minutes that you guys are suggesting Wang will have about 5 minutes per game. I feel to much hype over Askrabic already but if he is a Peja clone hope he signs here because Peja is probaly the best shooter in the NBA.

Hoopsmeister · 06-11-2002, 05:21 PM

Fin, Dirk, Steve
Will all play somewhere between 35-40 minutes a game

Agreed. It would be nice to cut all of them by a few minutes a game to keep them fresher, but they are going to take 110-120 of the available minutes between them. Call it 120.

Raef (barring foul trouble), Van Exel
Will play somewhere between 20-25 minutes a game. If they're on and causing major miss matches, they'll probably get more minutes.

Agreed. Though I think if Askrabic is our starting 3 that will reduce the 2 point guard sets. But we are probably still looking at 50 minutes/game minimum between them.

So that is 170 minutes accounted for, leaving 70 minutes. And this is where we diverge. You look at Najera, Griffin and Buck's minutes and then wonder where Askrabic gets minutes. But I am assuming that Askrabic is better than Najera, Griffin, and Buckner. If he is not better than 3 2nd round picks, at least in the Nelson's minds, then the effort the Mavs have already apparently put into pursuing him (including Donnie's visit to Yugoslavia right in the midst of our stretch run) makes absolutely no sense. So I think you prioritize Askrabic and say he gets 20-25 minutes along with Raef and NVE. That leaves 45 minutes which for the rest of the bench to split between them:

Probably Najera-15 minutes
Buckner/Griffin-15 minutes going to whichever is healthiest at the start of the season and switching when one gets hurt
Wang/Bradley/Esch/free agent banger pickup-15 minutes

Najera, Griffin, Buckner
Will get somewhere between 15-20 minutes a game. With one of them probably get more because more than likely one of them will be in the starting lineup.

As I say, the Nelsons have to think that Askrabic is better than any of them or they wouldn't have gone to this trouble in the first place.

Unless one of these guys go then I don't see exactly who would actually take a back seat to Ascrobic? Najera, Buck or Griff would probably get reduced minutes but those are our best defensive players so unless As.. is as good defensively would we really sit one of those guys down??? So the way I see it is he'll come here in replace of Manning or Newman and both of them gave us something when they played, but how much time did they really get? That's what I'm looking at.

Would Nellie sit those guys down for an athletic guy who is 6'9", has a 7-footers wingspan, and can shoot 73% (and I don't care if that's against European defense, that is still an incredible percentage)? Kid, have you paid *any* attention to Nellie's substitution patterns? I'm kidding you, because I know you do, but still.

Of course, this analysis rests completely on some assumptions about how good the Nelsons think Askrabic is--and the assumption that Askrabic turns out to be as good as the Nelsons think he will be. But if those assumptions are correct, the defense we lose in Eduardo Griffner's reduction in minutes gets adjusted for by playing big instead of small with 3 long-armed guys guarding the paint in a variety of zone defenses.