Quote from a Matt Barnes article - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dirk Diggler · 07-12-2007, 10:51 AM

After a solid performance in the playoffs for Golden State, small forward Matt Barnes entered free agency hoping to get a full mid-level exception (five years, $32 million) or more, and in some years, he might have. But this year, with the league's salary cap bumping up by just $3.5 million, Barnes is the kind of player who will have to settle for a lot less. Interest from the three teams comfortably under the cap -- Milwaukee, Orlando and Charlotte -- was nonexistent, and the Warriors have no interest in a sign-and-trade. That meant, from the beginning, that Barnes was looking at no more than the mid-level.

One team that was definitely interested in Barnes, a source says, was Dallas. But contrary to reports, the Mavericks do not have their full mid-level exception. When they re-signed small forward Devean George for one year and $2.5 million, that did, in fact, come out of their mid-level exception -- George had only been in Dallas for one year, and thus was not eligible to be signed with a "Larry Bird" exception or even an "Early Bird" exception. That money for George, then, had to come out of the midlevel.

So what is a realistic financial goal for Barnes? "In this market," one general manager says, "with things as tight as they are, I would expect he'll get something like three years and about $12 million. But that is only if he acts fast. He won't like it, but that's probably how it will be."

Can someone please explain this? I thought the George signing would take none of the MLE. If george eats up half of our MLE then I don't want him resigned. Does this writer know what he's talking about.

jthig32 · 07-12-2007, 10:54 AM

I was not aware of anyway they could resign him without using the mid-level, and I haven't seen an explanation how they could have.

If we burned part of the mid-level on Geoarge that becomes a terrible, terrible signing.

Randall The Great · 07-12-2007, 10:56 AM

Please kill me.

alby · 07-12-2007, 11:12 AM

I read that George didn't count towards are MLE.

alby · 07-12-2007, 11:15 AM

ahh found it

"Today will likely pass without the Mavericks opening the checkbook, Nelson said, other than to re-sign Jerry Stackhouse and Devean George, their two key free agents. Both players will be signed under provisions of what is known as "Larry Bird" exceptions. Each team can re-sign its own free agents with at least three years of service with the team to any amount up to the NBA maximum, which was Stackhouse's case. In George's case, an "Early Bird" provision allowed him to re-sign."

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showth...highlight=bird

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...s.381c911.html

mary · 07-12-2007, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

ahh found it

"Today will likely pass without the Mavericks opening the checkbook, Nelson said, other than to re-sign Jerry Stackhouse and Devean George, their two key free agents. Both players will be signed under provisions of what is known as "Larry Bird" exceptions. Each team can re-sign its own free agents with at least three years of service with the team to any amount up to the NBA maximum, which was Stackhouse's case. In George's case, an "Early Bird" provision allowed him to re-sign."

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showth...highlight=bird

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...s.381c911.html

I hope that article is correct, but doesn't George have to play another year to qualify for Early Bird?

greensborohill · 07-12-2007, 11:21 AM

It doesn't count against the MLE. George opted out in order to get a 20% raise that has nothing to do w/ the MLE. That article is wrong.

jthig32 · 07-12-2007, 11:21 AM

Ok, I did some digging.

George does NOT qualify for Early Bird rights, like the papers have said.

But it looks like he does qualify for the Non-Bird Exception, and it looks like we gave him a salary that would fall within those guidelines.

Link

NON-BIRD EXCEPTION -- This is also a component of the Veteran Free Agent exception. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Non-Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA. They are veteran free agents who are neither Qualifying Veteran Free Agents nor Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agents, either because they haven't met the criteria, or because they are Early Bird free agents following the second season of their rookie scale contract and whose team renounced the Early-Bird exception. This exception allows a team to re-sign its own free agent to a salary starting at 120% of the player's salary in the previous season, 120% of the minimum salary, or the amount needed to tender a qualifying offer (if the player is a restricted free agent -- see question number 36), whichever is greater. Raises are limited to 8% of the salary in the first year of the contract, and contracts are limited to five seasons when this exception is used.

This is what Dirno was referencing in the other thread where I raised this question, I just hadn't seen it sourced anywhere. Not that I don't believe Dirno, I was just looking for some confirmation.

greensborohill · 07-12-2007, 11:23 AM

CATEGORY ...# of years (since being waived or signing a contract through free agency)

Non-Qualifying ...1 ... 20% raise over yr 1
Early Bird ..........2 ... ability to offer MLE-sized deal without using MLE
(full) Bird ..........3+ ...ability to offer longer deal, bigger raises, max contract

That's how it works according to DLord from db.com

mary · 07-12-2007, 11:26 AM

So both articles were incorrect?

Yay for journalism!

alby · 07-12-2007, 11:28 AM

so does he or does he not count towards the Mavericks' MLE

jthig32 · 07-12-2007, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

so does he or does he not count towards the Mavericks' MLE

He does not.

FineCubanCigar · 07-12-2007, 11:31 AM

he does count against the MLE, that writer didn't know what he was talking about.

jthig32 · 07-12-2007, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FineCubanCigar

he does count against the MLE, that writer didn't know what he was talking about.

No, he doesn't.

mary · 07-12-2007, 11:32 AM

Why? Did George get more than a 20% raise?

jthig's explanation makes sense.

FineCubanCigar · 07-12-2007, 11:34 AM

D-Lord is correct.

NON-BIRD EXCEPTION -- This is also a component of the Veteran Free Agent exception. Players who qualify for this exception are called "Non-Qualifying Veteran Free Agents" in the CBA. They are veteran free agents who are neither Qualifying Veteran Free Agents nor Early Qualifying Veteran Free Agents, either because they haven't met the criteria, or because they are Early Bird free agents following the second season of their rookie scale contract and whose team renounced the Early-Bird exception. This exception allows a team to re-sign its own free agent to a salary starting at 120% of the player's salary in the previous season, 120% of the minimum salary, or the amount needed to tender a qualifying offer (if the player is a restricted free agent -- see question number 36), whichever is greater. Raises are limited to 8% of the salary in the first year of the contract, and contracts are limited to five seasons when this exception is used.

Starting January 10 of each season, this exception begins to reduce in value. See question number 20 for details.

alby · 07-12-2007, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FineCubanCigar

he does count against the MLE, that writer didn't know what he was talking about.

how does he count?

jthig32 · 07-12-2007, 11:35 AM

Is there an echo in here?

FineCubanCigar · 07-12-2007, 11:36 AM

The article said we used the early bird exemption when infact we did not, we used the one above, which added to the confusion.

FineCubanCigar · 07-12-2007, 11:39 AM

at least that article suggests that barnes is solidly in our price range.

Dirk Diggler · 07-12-2007, 11:45 AM

thanks god....I was going to blow if he did.

I'm still hoping we can come away with a couple of guys that can be good contributers off the bench.

It would be nice to have Barnes and Webber to add the bench....stay away from Francis.

Silk Smoov · 07-12-2007, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

how does he count?

I am too confused about which exception that George will fall under, either way, it is not the MLE. Which sounds good to me..Is it the Early Bird or Non-Bird? I guess one way to find out is to see for how many years he signs. I have seen reports that it is for only one year. If that is so, we can assume Non-Bird.

jthig32 · 07-12-2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

I am too confused about which exception that George will fall under, either way, it is not the MLE. Which sounds good to me..Is it the Early Bird or Non-Bird? I guess one way to find out is to see for how many years he signs. I have seen reports that it is for only one year. If that is so, we can assume Non-Bird.

If you'll read the whole thread you'll get your answer.

BGMaverick9 · 07-12-2007, 06:41 PM

It's obvious that Dallas was interested in him, probably still is.

The real question is: Is HE interested in coming here?

MavsX · 07-12-2007, 09:00 PM

this thread was a train wreck

EricaLubarsky · 07-12-2007, 10:53 PM

I don't see the Mavs in that pic

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-13-2007, 02:18 AM

Aw little Barnsy is complaining now about his lack of offers. Gee I wonder why? Maybe cause noone wants to spend their midlevel on a role player who can pretty much easily be replaced. There are a plethora of mediocre small forwards who can hit an open 3. The Mavs should pass without thinking twice.

alby · 07-13-2007, 02:27 AM

where were you when I was getting double teamed by male26 and chum? lol =p

Barnes is a good player, but not full MLE-caliber IMO.

chumdawg · 07-13-2007, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

There are a plethora of mediocre small forwards who can hit an open 3.

If Barnes is mediocre, then God bless our little mavericks--even more!--for being ousted by such a mediocre foe.

But still and all, why don't you go ahead and list for us all the small forwards who can hit a three who are available on this open market. I'll look forward to comparing your list to mine.

EricaLubarsky · 07-13-2007, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If Barnes is mediocre, then God bless our little mavericks--even more!--for being ousted by such a mediocre foe.

....

92bDad · 07-13-2007, 07:05 AM

Will there be a test over this?

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-13-2007, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

If Barnes is mediocre, then God bless our little mavericks--even more!--for being ousted by such a mediocre foe.

But still and all, why don't you go ahead and list for us all the small forwards who can hit a three who are available on this open market. I'll look forward to comparing your list to mine.

Who cares about the open market? We have three of them on our team, Greg Buckner, Devean George and Reyshawn Terry.

And the open market still provides:

James Posey
Mickael Pietrus

Those two aren't worth the full midlevel, either. I can't say necessarily that Barnes is better than either of them. He had an ok season and a good playoffs. Sf's who perform like that don't get full midlevels. If you look at his previous seasons before that, you can tell that he was playing for a contract.

EricaLubarsky · 07-13-2007, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 92bDad

Will there be a test over this?

yes and it will not be an open-book quiz.

vashjan · 07-13-2007, 10:45 AM

No worries mate..Mavs did not dip into the MLE..read on.

There is some misinformation on the Internet stating that the Mavericks had to dip into their mid-level exception to re-sign Devean George. That's not the case, however, as George signed a one-year deal Thursday at a 20 percent increase of last year's salary. His pay for next season will be about $2.336 million. Dallas Morning News

Read More from Eddie Sefko's article which mentions the misinformation of the mid-level
Stackhouse wants to see Mavs' mettle

01:16 AM CDT on Friday, July 13, 2007

By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News
esefko@dallasnews.com

FORT WORTH – Jerry Stackhouse is coming back to the Mavericks to get answers.

Oh, sure, the money's nice, too. The three-year contract he is scheduled to sign this morning will pay him handsomely, roughly $21 million over the life of the deal.
Mavericks/NBA

Blog: Mavericks

Cuban makes pitch for Cubs

Stackhouse wants to see Mavs' mettle

More Mavericks

But as Stackhouse took part in a Mavericks' Summer Hoop Camp at Country Day School on Thursday, he took time to make sure everybody understands why he wanted to come back to the Mavericks after three productive seasons in the sixth-man role. More than cash, he wants to find out what the real Mavericks are capable of.

"These last two years, one of them was a fluke," Stackhouse said. "It remains to be seen which one. Let's line up and see if [this season] was a fluke or if it was for real. We feel it was a fluke and, hopefully, we can come back and bounce back strong."

The Mavericks' season ended with a stunning first-round upset in the playoffs. In 2005-06, they made the NBA Finals, losing to Miami. Either the Mavericks are championship material or they're not. Stackhouse wants to know.

So he's back to fill a role that the team desperately needs – somebody with scoring punch off the bench and attitude to offset the slow-to-die perception that the Mavericks remain too soft.

Stackhouse reaffirmed his desire to continue coming off the bench, and coach Avery Johnson has said he wants Stackhouse and other key players fresh for the playoffs.
Dallas' Jerry Stackhouse says he's happy to keep coming off the bench for the Mavericks.
VERNON BRYANT / DMN
"These last two years, one of them was a fluke," says Jerry Stackhouse (left). "It remains to be seen which one."

"We feel we have great young players in our lineup and guys who can come off the bench and contribute," Stackhouse said. "That's where I come in. And how much my teammates appreciate that made it an easy decision."

Stackhouse said there were other options for him on the free-agent market, but none that presented the combination of having a chance to win a title along with maintaining a salary above the mid-level exception.

Stackhouse had just returned from an NBA-sponsored Basketball Without Borders trip to the Philippines, and after trying to get over some serious jet lag, said he was thrilled to be back in Texas. He had about 300 kids at Country Day School that hung on his every word at the clinic, presented by Academy Sports & Outdoors, as he talked about values and basketball.

"The clinics are fun for me because I'm able to show the kids a little about the game of basketball and share my experiences," he said. "And the best part is answering the questions. You get some of the craziest stuff from 8-year-olds."

Clearing the air: There is some misinformation on the Internet stating that the Mavericks had to dip into their mid-level exception to re-sign Devean George.

That's not the case, however, as George signed a one-year deal Thursday at a 20 percent increase of last year's salary. His pay for next season will be about $2.336 million.

Had it been for more than a 20 percent increase, it would have come out of the mid-level. But the Mavericks still have the full $5.3 million to work with, as well as their $1.8 million exception that teams get every other year.

Stamp of approval: Stackhouse is confident in president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson, owner Mark Cuban and coach Avery Johnson in assessing the free-agent market. But Stackhouse believes a couple of the names he's hearing – Chris Webber and Steve Francis – are worth exploring.

"Whenever you have a chance to add that kind of talent, you do it," he said of Francis.

"So there's a number of guys who have popped up that could help us. Chris Webber, I hear we're on his short list. To add players of that level, it could take us to another level and maybe that level is a championship."

The Mavericks have been interested in Webber since February, when he was waived by Philadelphia.

In Francis' situation, the Mavericks have to consider his poor health over the last couple of seasons and some occasional attitude problems.

alby · 07-13-2007, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Who cares about the open market? We have three of them on our team, Greg Buckner, Devean George and Reyshawn Terry.

And the open market still provides:

James Posey
Mickael Pietrus

Those two aren't worth the full midlevel, either. I can't say necessarily that Barnes is better than either of them. He had an ok season and a good playoffs. Sf's who perform like that don't get full midlevels. If you look at his previous seasons before that, you can tell that he was playing for a contract.

seriously where were you that night?? I was getting murdered haha.

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showthread.php?t=30681

alby · 07-13-2007, 11:18 AM

Can teams combine the 5.3 million and 1.8 million? Probably not huh

DevinHarriswillstart · 07-13-2007, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alby

seriously where were you that night?? I was getting murdered haha.

http://www.dallas-mavs.com/vb/showthread.php?t=30681

Haha sorry, too many threads to keep up with. Things changed when we re-signed george I think. We no longer are in need of a defensive sf who can nail a three. Doesn't mean we won't add one but certainly not interest enough for the full midlevel