Poll: Do the Mavs need to drastically reduce their 3pt Attmpts?

[LRB]

Currently the Mavas re shooting a comparatively good 43.7 FG% which places them at 11th. Down from previous years, but still one of the top in the NBA. Sacaramento is leading everyone at 47.1% but the 2nd place is the Fakers at 45.2 %. So comparatively speaking the Mavs are doing pretty good here. Last year Dallas finished the season at 7th in the league at 45.5% and Utah was #1 at 46.8%.

Now if you look at Adjusted FG%, [(PTS - FTM)/FGA]/2, the Mavs are doing better shooting 47.1% which places them 7th. The Queens are tops at 50.9% followed by Seatlle at 49.9%. Last year the Mavs finished the season at 49.8% and 3rd. Milwaukee was 1st last year with 50.0%. So we're down even more % wise in our in this category over last years than in FG%.

Now lets look at 3pt%, the mavs are a horrible 21st at 31.8%. The Queens lead at 41.8%. Last year we finished 3rd at 38.1% and Milwaukee was 1st at 38.3%.

Next Dallas is 4th in the league at flinging 3pt bombs with 18.6 attempted per game. The Hornets lead at 22.6 attempts per game. An interesting not is that the Queens are only attempting 15.0 per game. Last year Dallas was #2 in 3pt attempts at 20.3 per game behind only Boston's 26.3 per game. We have cut back some already from last year. We're only attempting 92% of last year's total. Also note that we are only taking 1.5 shots per game more than Sacramento and are only shooting 0.3 more FT's per game less.

Dallas is currently 11th in the league at 1.16 points per shot. The Fakers are #1 at 1.24 ponters per shot. Last year Dallas finished 4th in the NBA at 1.21 points per shot and Utah was #1 at 1.25 points per shot.

Dallas is currently 14th in FT's attempted per game at 23.5 with the Fakers at 34.0 per game and then Philly at #2 at 29.3 per game. Last year Dallas was 26th in the league at 21.9 and GS was #1 at 29.0.

Dallas is currently at 10th in FTM per game at 18.3 with the Fakers leading with 23.4 FTM per game. Last year Dallas was 18th in FTM per game at 18.1 with the GS being #1 at 22.6.

Dallas is currently 4th in scoring at 98.6 points per game while the Queens lead the league with 103.4 points per game. Last year Dallas let the league with 103.0 points per game and GS was #2 at 102.4 points per game.

Dallas is currently 9th in offensive rebounding % at 30.2% with Utah at #1 at 36.0 %. Last year Dallas was 27th in the league at 25.3% with GS being #1 at 34.9%.

Dallas is currently 3rd in the league in FGA per game at 85.3 with the Clips being #1 at 87.8. Last year Dallas was #2 at 85.1 FGA per game and the Queens were #1 at 85.2 per game.


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Now IMO Dallas is much more of a team fitted for scoring inside the 3pt line. This gives us even better chances to get to line and get offensive rebounds on misses, and we've greatly improved on each of those areas since last year. But right now Dallas is a horrid 3pt shooting team. There is absolutely no justification to shoot as many as we do since we're having such great success inside the arc.

We're highly effective in 2pt % 47.3% which is only down 0.1% from last year's 2pt %. But our 3pt% is down 6.3%.

We need to go inside more and cut out a lot of the 3pters at least until our shot returns.


Also per 100 3pters attempted we schore 95.4 points while per 100 2pters attempted we score 94.6 going on shooting % alone. 0.8 points per 100 shots does not seem like much of a reward. Especially when it means drawing less fouls and less offensive rebounding opportunites. We do need to take enough 3pters to keep the defense honest, but not near as many as we do take.

[Fah Q]

I voted for No, were fine

We are a good 3 point shooting team. I just think we are in a slump right now, the shot will eventually go in.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Fah Q
I voted for No, were fine

We are a good 3 point shooting team. I just think we are in a slump right now, the shot will eventually go in.

Then why not cut back until the shot starts going?

[kingrex]

I voted Yes, but only a few.

I want us to explore our other options inside. Like our high-low post with Dirk and Walker. I also like it when our guys takes it strong to the hole. The open lanes are open because of the 3pt shooters, so take advantage of that, and if they shut them down then kick out to the 3pt shooter.

[Murphy3]

yes, but only a few..and mostly only from walker
I want to see more of him in the post with only a couple of three point attempts from him a game.

[Fah Q]

Originally posted by: LRB

Then why not cut back until the shot starts going?

I've always thought that they way you get out of a slump is to shoot your way out.

[mercury_rev]

Nash and Dirk (and maybe Fin) should keep shooting the same number of threes. But Walker doesn't need to shoot so many. His game is much better suited to slashing or posting up.

(I.e. what Murph just said.....)

[Fah Q]

I will say one thing though, I don't want the mavs to take 3's when they are trying to maintain a lead down the stretch like they did last night.

[jacktruth]

I nearly voted for more because Dirk's attempts are so far down from last year, which is not helping his percentage. But the profile of this team is so different than last year, we won't need to rely so much on 3-pt shooting, so I voted to keep it the same. Thier % will eventually increase.

[ReDIRKulous]

I voted that we need to take a lot more threes to shoot our way out of the slump. When we can hit our outside shots it will open our inside game up dramatically. We still aren't one of the strongest inside teams. We have been living on the threat of threes quite a bit as it is. But if the MAvs aren't hitting their threes then teams just essentially zone us... and since we don't have a Duncan or Shaq that can just power the ball inside we struggle offensively (on the road at least).

We need to get through this 3 point funk. We could even decrease our threes after we are through it. But we need to get confident from there.

[grndmstr_c]

I feel pretty comfortable with the number of three point attempts we've been taking. Why? Because most of them have been open looks. I'm not happy that we aren't making them, but I really think that will come with time. Finley's career % is 35.6, Dirk's is 37.4, and Steve's is 41.9. Those translate into effective 3pt%'s of 53.4, 56.1, and 62.85, which are good enough to justify the number of shots taken. Even Walker hovers around 50% effectively for his career. What I would like to see change, however, is who is taking the bulk of the three point attempts. Walker's taken 57, but Steve has taken only 34. We need to find a way to turn some of Walker's attempts into attempts for Steve. I think part of this is probably that teams are far more willing to let AW take those shots (rightly so), but if that's what they're doing then we need Walker to draw and kick more often. Hopefully this is something that will come with time.

[Jamisonite]

I think we need to cut back on the 3 point shots that arent that good of looks when we still have like 18-20 seconds on the shot clock

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Fah Q

I've always thought that they way you get out of a slump is to shoot your way out.

But aren't there others like getting to the line? Getting easy baskets? And do you have to keep shooting the same volume?

And if this is a slump how long do you keep shooting without seeing significant improvement? 12 more games. 20 more games? 50 more games? The rest of the regular season? All year including post season? 2 years? Forever?

If we're having great success doing other things, why not do more of the things where we're finding great success?

[Fah Q]

Originally posted by: LRB

But aren't there others like getting to the line? Getting easy baskets? And do you have to keep shooting the same volume?

And if this is a slump how long do you keep shooting without seeing significant improvement? 12 more games. 20 more games? 50 more games? The rest of the regular season? All year including post season? 2 years? Forever?

If we're having great success doing other things, why not do more of the things where we're finding great success?

OK, I get your point.

All I'm saying is that if Dirk is open for a three do you want him to take it? I would.

I agree that we shouldn't be taking three's that aren't open, but for the most part this year the Mavs have been open, but they just aren't hitting the shot.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Fah Q

OK, I get your point.

All I'm saying is that if Dirk is open for a three do you want him to take it? I would.

I agree that we shouldn't be taking three's that aren't open, but for the most part this year the Mavs have been open, but they just aren't hitting the shot.

Fah Q I'm not so much arguing with you as trying to get you to elaborate on why you feel that way and asnwer what you think on the question. There are certainly many sides off thought on this, and not necessarily a right or wrong.

As for Dirk having an open 3, Yes I'd want him to take it, but at the same time, I want him standing out at the 3pt line less which should reduce his chances of getting an open 3pter.

Also, unless times running out and we need 3pts to keep from losing the game, I'd rather any shooter we have pass to an open man under the basket than take a wide open 3pter. An open 3pter might be better than a highly contested 10 footer, but an open dunk or layup is much better than an open 3pter.

[bogey]

No. We are fine. We just need to start hitting the dang shots we are taking.

[Chiwas]

No.

Dallas need to brake the slump as some said before. The only way is trying and trying, not avoiding it.

I think Dirk is looking more and more comfortable with the threes as used to be last seasons. Not there yet, but better.

Though, I'll put Walker to practice them more in training days; if only he could make a couple more per game!

[Fidel]

Dallas is currently 11th in the league at 1.16 points per shot. The Fakers are #1 at 1.24 ponters per shot. Last year Dallas finished 4th in the NBA at 1.21 points per shot and Utah was #1 at 1.25 points per shot.

Well it would certainly help if the player with the third lowest PPS average on the team wouldn´t take the second most shots.

But hey it´s Antoine Walkers team now.

[Murphy3]

let's hope you're not right Fidel..but, nellie has his point forward.

I like what Walker brings to the team but I hope nellie doesn't allow him to go overboard

[Psychedelic Fuzz]

I'm fine with the amount of shots we're taking, and I think Walker and the rest will eventually start hitting more. With time, Walker will learn to take less and less of the high risk, hand in his face type shots.

[dallas_esq]

I've thought this team needed to shoot fewer 3's last year too. They rely too much on outside shooting. Get in the paint, that's what the teams who have won do. Live by the 3, die by the 3.

[chumdawg]

Well, I don't know of much else that gives me as big a thrill as the little Mavs hitting, say, three treys in four trips down the floor. When it's on, it's absolutely unbeatable.

But yes, it's all about timing, and making sure the looks are good. Wait, I just thought of one more thing that gives me as big a thrill. Nashty running the break and then pulling up and hitting a cold-blooded three. Does that ever drive a dagger...

[dude1394]

I'm absolutely fine with them. they come in the offense and in general have been wide open. I believe they will start to go down and we'll be the living heck out of most teams.

But we've also improved greatly our rebounding and defense. We are also getting many,many more layups, cuts to the baskets and that's one of the reasons our 2pt percentage is up.

Just think if they had been hitting their normal percentage, game over against the spurs. They have shot 223 to the spurs 184. So that's about 40 more or 4 more per game. That seems certainly fine.

[LRB]

But we've also improved greatly our rebounding and defense. We are also getting many,many more layups, cuts to the baskets and that's one of the reasons our 2pt percentage is up.

Actually our 2pt% is down 0.1% from last year. Just since our 3pt% is so far down and the 2pt% has remained relatively constant, it looks portportionally better.

[dude1394]

The mavs are a high-octane push it up and take the open shot when it's open. Especially in the flow of the game. They tighten up when they have to and that's fine. I see no reason to mess with a formula that was 1 game and 1 quarter away from winning the NBA championship last year.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: LRB

Actually our 2pt% is down 0.1% from last year. Just since our 3pt% is so far down and the 2pt% has remained relatively constant, it looks portportionally better.

My bad, but they do seem to be getting closer shots. Maybe they just aren't going in, they seem to have missed a lot of close ones. But that's probably just my imagination.

[LRB]

Dude I think that they are getting more layups and closer shots. Long distance missed 2pters are dropping the overall 2pt% down or it would be up much over last year.

[bernardos70]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
yes, but only a few..and mostly only from walker
I want to see more of him in the post with only a couple of three point attempts from him a game.

Ditto. We should take less IMO, but we should never give up on them. That's an excellent weapon for our offense, that's one of the factors that made us so successful last year IMO. You couldn't leave the big three +lafrentz open for three before, and now there are times you can't even let anyone open for three due to our new player acquisitions. But we have that shot, so it's a good thing it isn't falling now so we develop some sort of inside game. It'll come to us eventually.

[mavsfanforever]

I am not against mavs taking the three point attempts. The only thing I am against is mavs should have a high percentage shooter taking them. I do not mind Dirk/Nash taking the threes.

The only thing I am worried about is when Dirk gets double and triple teamed in the playoffs , is there a high percentage shooter beyond the arc like steve kerr who can make people pay for those double teams. If Walker is hitting 20-30% of long range shots, teams would happily take that risk and double team Dirk. Remember, Game 6 WCF when Kerr made us pay for the double teams on Duncan.

[Simon2]

I voted for "No". The 3 point shot is a great weapon. In two shots, it can cut a 12 point lead into 6. That's demoralizing for the other team. Also, the Mavs can hit the three so why stop them from shooting. "You miss all the shots your don't take"

[LRB]

Also, the Mavs can hit the three so why stop them from shooting. "You miss all the shots your don't take"

Because the Mavs hit much better on the 2pt shot. So why take a shot that you currently suck at, when you can take a shot that you're currently doing great at. Shaq can hit the 3pter, so whay shouldn't he shoot them instead of posting up? Because he makes a ton more on the postups than on the 3pt shot.

And it's not stop shooting the 3pter, it whether to keep shooting at a pace that is 4th most in the NBA when you're shooting accuracy is 21st in the NBA. Why not shoot at apace that say is maybe 12th in the NBA until you 3pt accuracy returns? Especially if you're finding great success playing inside.

[mavsfanforever]

Originally posted by: LRB

Because the Mavs hit much better on the 2pt shot. So why take a shot that you currently suck at, when you can take a shot that you're currently doing great at. Shaq can hit the 3pter, so whay shouldn't he shoot them instead of posting up? Because he makes a ton more on the postups than on the 3pt shot.

And it's not stop shooting the 3pter, it whether to keep shooting at a pace that is 4th most in the NBA when you're shooting accuracy is 21st in the NBA. Why not shoot at apace that say is maybe 12th in the NBA until you 3pt accuracy returns? Especially if you're finding great success playing inside.

LRB, to open up the inside lanes mavs do have to show three point threat and thus they have to take threes. However, I am against low percentage shooters taking those threes. As I said, Dirk/Nash taking threes is something I can live with. But I think we do need a high percentage three point shooter on this team. As I said someone like Steve Kerr.

[dude1394]

But the 3ptr is part of who they are. It would be against their personality to not shoot them open. It's just part of the flow of the offense and slowing it down (i.e. waiting for 20 seconds to get a good shot) doesn't fit their personality/culture.


I love watch the mavs being willing to pull up, shot a 3ptr. When dirk does it the crowd absolutley goes NUTS!!! I don't know if that is because he shoots it so high that we have time to build up a good yell or not. Probalby just that we all think dirk will hit everything.


When he does hit it, it's quite electric. Sort of like that one last game against the spurs. That COULD have been a two-pointer, but the 3 just fires up the team and crowd. I think the other team also goes, oh no, they are about to go nuts and blow us out of here. ;^)

[Murphy3]

I really don't want to see anyone reduce their 3pt attempts other than Walker..
so, I'd only like to see a slight decrease in 3pt attempts per game.

Walker is so much more dangerous down on the post than he is on the perimeter...there's no reason for him to shoot more than 2-3 3-pointers a game

[LRB]

LRB, to open up the inside lanes mavs do have to show three point threat and thus they have to take threes. However, I am against low percentage shooters taking those threes. As I said, Dirk/Nash taking threes is something I can live with. But I think we do need a high percentage three point shooter on this team. As I said someone like Steve Kerr.

I don't question that you need the 3 to open the lanes up, but how many 3's do you need. I still think if we're shooting at least 12 or 13 a game we can keep the lanes open and most definitely should be able to do it with 15. The key being is if you're having great succes inside, and the Mavs are, keep doing it until the defense stops it. Then go back outside, and you'll have even better looks. The mavs problems is that they tend to congregate around the 3pt line and give themselves precious little chance for an inside shot. When you suck shooting 3's and long distance jumpers, and the Mavs currently suck at this, the defense isn't going to strongly defend those shots as long as you keep missing. We're doing precious little to open the lanes up with the extrat shots and just making it easier for opposing defenses.

But the 3ptr is part of who they are. It would be against their personality to not shoot them open. It's just part of the flow of the offense and slowing it down (i.e. waiting for 20 seconds to get a good shot) doesn't fit their personality/culture.

This is a different team than last years. Only 5 players on the active roster were here last year. And only 3 are 3pt shooters, who have yet to consistently find the range in 3pt land this year. On the other hand the mavs are having tons more success in the pint. And there is no reason at all to wait 20 seconds to take a shot. We can take a quick shot close in as well as one long range.

And while the 3 may fire the crowd up, so does building 20 point leads by consistently scoring instead of only hitting a 3pter once in a blue moon. And the crowd doesn't get fired up over mav 3pters at all on the road.

[Mavs Rule]

I am in complete agreement with Murph this time. The only cutting that needs to be made is Walker's 3 point attempts. When Nellie first said that Walker needed to up his 3pt attempts I couldn't believe it. He was averaging four at the time and it was insanity for him to take more. Other than the first game against the lakers, his three point shooting has not been very good.

Its not just the percentage this year or last year that bothers me. It is the choices that he makes regarding the three. He is not like Fin, Nash, or Dirk, who all show excellent judgement in their attempts. He sometimes throws up ill timed shots that literally have no chance of going in. Whether it is a defender who is in his face, or the fact that the team looks like it is set up to go inside, or when an extra pass to an open player is called for, Walker does not make good decisions on threes. I challenge you to look for successful fast breaks for the other team off of a Walker attempt and see how much more it happens with him as opposed to the big three. Not only does this happen often, it often happens at critical times in a game! It happened the other night when we had a huge run going only to stop our momentum and allow the Spurs to come back. Only if he would concentrate on getting to the bucket more, and hold the threes to 4 or less attempts a game. Why should anyone in their right mind want Walker taking more threes than ANY OF THE BIG THREE.