Question for Cuban haters... - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Hitman · 08-29-2005, 04:07 PM

1. Who would you rather have as the owner of this team?

2. Do you really think they wouldn't have cut Finley?

seelenjaeger · 08-29-2005, 04:13 PM

It´s still not about Finley, and it never was.

Drbio · 08-29-2005, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: seelenjaeger
It´s still not about Finley, and it never was.

Exactly. Everyone is trying to make this a Finley issue. It isn't. I am thankful that he injected payroll into this team and that he is willing to overspend....it is one of many reasons that the Mavs no longer suck. However, he has portrayed himself in a totally classless manner over the years and it makes our beloved franchise the butt of jokes, the target of ridicule and it makes him look like a complete and utter fool. I just wish he would tone down and sit in the background. It's great that he is a fan, but he isn't one of the boys no matter how hard he tries and that attempt is usually what inspires all of the tomfoolery.

Evilmav2 · 08-29-2005, 04:54 PM

I'm not a Cuban hater so I don't know if I should answer your questions, but what the heck:

1. Nobody

2. I do not believe that any rational owner would not have cut Finley, if he owned a Mavericks team that was subjected to precisely the same salary cap situation that Cuban was this Summer. However, that's not to say that I think that Cuban and the braintrust haven't made some pretty severe mistakes in handling the contract situations of Nash, Fin, and many other Mavs over the last few years. Specifically, I'll say that a good year before Nash left us, I argued on this forum and elsewhere that the Mavs should have at least considered trading the Canadian traitor rather than allowing him to enter unrestricted free agency (according to the Indy Star he and unspecified others might have netted us Brad Miller and possibly Ron Artest), and I've always firmly believed that we grossly overpayed the spot-shooting, defensively-challenged Finley when we signed him to that ill-fated, maximum contract of his...

dalmations202 · 08-29-2005, 04:54 PM

Quote:

1. Who would you rather have as the owner of this team?

KG_vet, Grand_c, and Erica .... they tend to think things through, and express them well.

Quote:

2. Do you really think they wouldn't have cut Finley?

who knows, but at least they could tell you without having the board go off because they "did something" or "didn't do something", and then "can" you as the moderator if you didn't agree with them............LOL

madape · 08-29-2005, 04:59 PM

Hey, I loved Cuban's free spending ways. But that money is gone. Cuban has admitted giving up trying to spend his way to a championship (and some may argue, given up trying to win a championship altogether).

So now, what good is he?

Answer... not much. There are 29 NBA general managers who make better basketball decisions than this pathetic dot-com dropout.

chumdawg · 08-29-2005, 05:01 PM

1) Todd Wagner.

2) Probably not relevant. But I think there's a damn fine chance he wouldn't have lost Nash. Or broke up a Western Conference Finalist before they had a chance to make another run at it.

u2sarajevo · 08-29-2005, 05:08 PM

Todd Wagner is an owner of the Mavericks. Not the majority obviously, but an owner nonetheless.

edit: To add a link to a story about the above claim.

DevinHarriswillstart · 08-29-2005, 05:47 PM

What a dumb post. I don't think anyone is out on a witch hunt for Mark Cuban. There is a little bit of difference in thinking he is a bit goofy versus hating him. Try posting the question in a less black and white manner.

Hitman · 08-29-2005, 07:02 PM

Thanks for adding to the thread Devin. Kudos.

Anyway.

There has been alot of Cuban hating around here. The guy who has the second highest payroll in the entire league has all these posters hating him. 90% of the owners in the league would never consider stretching their wallets to this level. The bottom line is that if you are not happy with Mark Cuban owning your team, then you would not be happy with ANY owner. These people are billionaires and MULTI - millinaires who did not reach the level that they are at by being stupid, or being "standard." To be that successful, you have to be a bit "different"than you average poster on D-M.com.

Criticize Cuban if you want for letting Nash go (though, in all honesty, at that point in time -- it was the right decision -- and still really was) but for all this stuff about losing Finley, it is just silly. He had to do it. And though paying Damp all that money might have been a mistake, the Mavs with him are better than the Mavs without him.

dude1394 · 08-29-2005, 07:03 PM

I'm okay with cuban. But imo the last few years have been STUPID. I have felt like a schmuck evertime I re-upped my season tickets. I never knew since 02-03 who the **** was going to be on the team and it has teed me off for the last 3 years.

Finley was just the last straw. Since it seems that cubes himself has acknowledged that he's been a complete imbecile the last 3 years, I'm okay with a do-over. As I've mentioned many times I like cubes, he makes me laugh and I think he really does want to win.

BUT he took a team that I loved and blew the hell out of it for no good reason or plan, none. He's flat out admitted it so I'm ready to go on. Finley's release was the last straw in his stupidity, I'm glad it's hopefully over. But I do think he blew a tremendous opportunity to have a championship team. I know that many do not and you can make a case for it, but I do not agree with it, so I've been pissed at cubes. Hell don/donnie also for that matter if they bought into it.

madape · 08-29-2005, 07:05 PM

Again. I don't know how many times I have to say it.

Cuban USED to spend a lot of money. Those days are over. Now all we're left with is another cheapskate owner, just like 90% of the league.

Only THIS cheapskate owner likes to make basketball decisions on his own, decisions that more often than not hurt the team.

dude1394 · 08-29-2005, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Hitman
Thanks for adding to the thread Devin. Kudos.

Anyway.

There has been alot of Cuban hating around here. The guy who has the second highest payroll in the entire league has all these posters hating him. 90% of the owners in the league would never consider stretching their wallets to this level. The bottom line is that if you are not happy with Mark Cuban owning your team, then you would not be happy with ANY owner. These people are billionaires and MULTI - millinaires who did not reach the level that they are at by being stupid, or being "standard." To be that successful, you have to be a bit "different"than you average poster on D-M.com.

Criticize Cuban if you want for letting Nash go (though, in all honesty, at that point in time -- it was the right decision -- and still really was) but for all this stuff about losing Finley, it is just silly. He had to do it. And though paying Damp all that money might have been a mistake, the Mavs with him are better than the Mavs without him.

Hitman this is JUST NOT TRUE. The value of an owner is not JUST how much money he spends. That's a part of it, but there is also an effect of having such a drastic roster turnover every year which is really what most people are bitching about. Seeing nash, finley go like this for absolutely nothing is a pisser.

Drbio · 08-29-2005, 07:07 PM

Hitman- I'm not sure how much more clear I can be. It sems like everyone is ignoring the theme of my posts and trying to make this a Nash, Finley thing. I don't hate Mark, I just hate when he acts like a total dipwad on national television. I appreciate that he is willing to pony up the bucks for payroll, etc. I think he gets too much credit for personnel moves which he likely doesn't make, but I am grateful for his wallet. If he could shut his pie hole and not make the Mavs the ridicule of the league 10-15 times a year I would probably love the guy. In the past I have staunchly defended the guy, but this is not an issue of Nash or Finley or even payroll. It's an issue fo an owner refusing to show a little class. That is very unfortunate, very discouraging to many and he needs to stop doing it.

Drbio · 08-29-2005, 07:09 PM

BTW...the Nash and Finley leaving for nothing issues are real issues. But no one I am trying to inject into this topic.

Hitman · 08-29-2005, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394
I'm okay with cuban. But imo the last few years have been STUPID. I have felt like a schmuck evertime I re-upped my season tickets. I never knew since 02-03 who the **** was going to be on the team and it has teed me off for the last 3 years.

Finley was just the last straw. Since it seems that cubes himself has acknowledged that he's been a complete imbecile the last 3 years, I'm okay with a do-over. As I've mentioned many times I like cubes, he makes me laugh and I think he really does want to win.

BUT he took a team that I loved and blew the hell out of it for no good reason or plan, none. He's flat out admitted it so I'm ready to go on. Finley's release was the last straw in his stupidity, I'm glad it's hopefully over. But I do think he blew a tremendous opportunity to have a championship team. I know that many do not and you can make a case for it, but I do not agree with it, so I've been pissed at cubes. Hell don/donnie also for that matter if they bought into it.

Dude -- what team did you love that he shouldn't have blown up? Do you really think a team of Steve, Fin, Najera, Dirk and Bradley with Nick as the sixth man would be a good team NOW? No. You have to retool. If you are not good enough to win it all (or even if you are, sometimes) you have to get better. He went and got Antoine and Antawn. It didn't work out. By the way, those were Nellie decisions. He wanted them. Cuban gave the ok to get it, for the betterment of the team.

Last years team won 58 games. They were two wins from the WCF's. They have a great nucleus and have a chance to win it all in 06. They have the 2nd highest payroll in the leauge.

What else do you want? Donald Sterling? James Dolan? Ed Snider? 95% of the owners in pro sports are worse than Cuban.

Hitman · 08-29-2005, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Drbio
Hitman- I'm not sure how much more clear I can be. It sems like everyone is ignoring the theme of my posts and trying to make this a Nash, Finley thing. I don't hate Mark, I just hate when he acts like a total dipwad on national television. I appreciate that he is willing to pony up the bucks for payroll, etc. I think he gets too much credit for personnel moves which he likely doesn't make, but I am grateful for his wallet. If he could shut his pie hole and not make the Mavs the ridicule of the league 10-15 times a year I would probably love the guy. In the past I have staunchly defended the guy, but this is not an issue of Nash or Finley or even payroll. It's an issue fo an owner refusing to show a little class. That is very unfortunate, very discouraging to many and he needs to stop doing it.

What has Cuban done in the past 2 years to look like a total dipwad on national television?

Cuban has expressed his opinions, which I would think someone like yourself would appreciate.

Quetzalcoatl · 08-29-2005, 07:17 PM

I'm with Cuban.

Quetzalcoatl · 08-29-2005, 07:17 PM

I'm with Cuban.

Quetzalcoatl · 08-29-2005, 07:19 PM

Sorry, double post. I didn't want...

Drbio · 08-29-2005, 07:19 PM

The sloppy seconds comments, the stupid Dairy Queen comments, the idiotic staged fight with a fake referee....three really good examples. Also, I am not the face of a major sports franchise asking for your dollars. With that comes a responsibility to professionally represent your team, players and fans. Cuban is unable to do that. He has recovered nicely on a couple things, but his unprofessional conduct and lame commentary has grow old and has pissed off a significant number of fans.

dude1394 · 08-29-2005, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Hitman

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394
I'm okay with cuban. But imo the last few years have been STUPID. I have felt like a schmuck evertime I re-upped my season tickets. I never knew since 02-03 who the **** was going to be on the team and it has teed me off for the last 3 years.

Finley was just the last straw. Since it seems that cubes himself has acknowledged that he's been a complete imbecile the last 3 years, I'm okay with a do-over. As I've mentioned many times I like cubes, he makes me laugh and I think he really does want to win.

BUT he took a team that I loved and blew the hell out of it for no good reason or plan, none. He's flat out admitted it so I'm ready to go on. Finley's release was the last straw in his stupidity, I'm glad it's hopefully over. But I do think he blew a tremendous opportunity to have a championship team. I know that many do not and you can make a case for it, but I do not agree with it, so I've been pissed at cubes. Hell don/donnie also for that matter if they bought into it.

Dude -- what team did you love that he shouldn't have blown up? Do you really think a team of Steve, Fin, Najera, Dirk and Bradley with Nick as the sixth man would be a good team NOW? No. You have to retool. If you are not good enough to win it all (or even if you are, sometimes) you have to get better. He went and got Antoine and Antawn. It didn't work out. By the way, those were Nellie decisions. He wanted them. Cuban gave the ok to get it, for the betterment of the team.

Last years team won 58 games. They were two wins from the WCF's. They have a great nucleus and have a chance to win it all in 06. They have the 2nd highest payroll in the leauge.

What else do you want? Donald Sterling? James Dolan? Ed Snider? 95% of the owners in pro sports are worse than Cuban.

You know what team it was that I loved. It WAS that team that you mentioned. That team had heart, guts and could flat out ball. It's so unfair to think that they would be exactly the same team and I'm not advocating that. Nick would surely be winding down, najera would have been replaced, josh, marquis would still be here and probably raef and a center of some sort. Surely walt, griffin, ???, ??? wouldn't be back. But I wouldn't have had to suffer through the ridiculous year after and this year when dirk had to carry this team single-handedly. A team which was probably just as close to missing the playoffs as making any noise in them. We beat houston but the suns kicked our fanny.

That team was rewarded by being blown to hell. As Avery just got through saying, the players came back and didn't know who the hell was on the roster. Then next year, same damn thing. If you ONLY go by championship runs this team went from 1game+1quarter from the NBA championship to getting knocked out in the first round, to getting knocked out in the second. All the while seeing the complete roster turnover such that the only player left is dirk.

I thought it was dumb, I still think it was dumb. We are pretty much right where we could have been without blowing that team up. You say it was time to blow it up, I do not. No one can "win" this argument because it was blown up. I hated it, still hate it and am finally glad that cubes has seen that he was a stupid-ass for doing it. Maybe I can keep a stinking bobble-head more than one season without the player getting traded.

And I don't give a crap if it was "nellies" decision or "cubes". Cubes was right there with him, figuring he'd blow it up every year, get new players and see what would happen. Cubes was and IS THE STINKING OWNER and he calls the shots. He doesn't get to blame it on donnie or nelson. If he weren't on the floor and in every decision made he might get some slack there, but not the way he plays the game.

When you throw out other owners names (the dregs of the league by the way, how about the suns, denver, seattle, etc.) you just aren't really listening to me. I don't have an issue with cubes perse, but his management the last three years imo has stunk it up. I've hated it. Still hate it. It seems that he's finally realised how stupid it was as well, that's good. Loyalty does count, having trust in management as well as knowing that the players besides you aren't just mercenaries but are brothers does count. It is not just fantasy basketball, which is what cubes has been playing for three years now, I'm glad he's put away his nintendo.

dirno2000 · 08-29-2005, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Again. I don't know how many times I have to say it.

Cuban USED to spend a lot of money. Those days are over. Now all we're left with is another cheapskate owner, just like 90% of the league.

You might have a point if he didn't use the MLE this summer...I don't agree with the way he allocated it but if it was all about the money, that's $10MM he could have saved.

Hitman · 08-29-2005, 08:27 PM

Bingo dirno.

People around here don't realize how many owners around the league REFUSE to use the MLE.

Hitman · 08-29-2005, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Drbio
The sloppy seconds comments, the stupid Dairy Queen comments, the idiotic staged fight with a fake referee....three really good examples. Also, I am not the face of a major sports franchise asking for your dollars. With that comes a responsibility to professionally represent your team, players and fans. Cuban is unable to do that. He has recovered nicely on a couple things, but his unprofessional conduct and lame commentary has grow old and has pissed off a significant number of fans.

So I assume if you somehow struck it rich and were magically allowed to buy the Mavs, you would never voice the opinions that you do on this message board to the broader audience?

Murphy3 · 08-29-2005, 08:33 PM

I don't hate Cuban. I do dislike him. However, that does not mean that I want a different owner. I believe that he is financially willing to do what it takes to put a winner on the field. Off the field, Cuban is an embarrassment.

Hitman · 08-29-2005, 08:38 PM

Murph - I agree that he is financially willing to put a winner on the field.

However....

Off the field --

he is outspoken, yes.

i disagree with him often, yes.

However, again -- you seem to be someone that likes to speak your mind. If you are owning the Mavs, are you clambing up and succumbing to the typical corportate "no comment" mindset or are you remaing true to yourself and you beliefs. Are you suddenly becoming a George Steinbrenner/ Jerry Jones corporate "stiff"? Or do you remain the outspoken person you are and speak your mind, even if others vehehemently disagree?

Drbio · 08-29-2005, 08:41 PM

When you are the point person and primary representative of a company you have the obligation to listen first and speak little if any at all. Your actions reflect the organization and Cuban's actions are an embarassment. Sorry you feel the need to be obtuse on this clear issue.

Murphy3 · 08-29-2005, 08:44 PM

When you're a major dork and you own a professional team, it is embarrassing when you're outspoken. Cuban comes off as a 12 year old boy that wants so badly to fit in with everyone else...but what he doesn't know is that everyone else is laughing at him behind his back...unless you are also a dork and then you think he's cool.

Thespiralgoeson · 08-29-2005, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394

You know what team it was that I loved. It WAS that team that you mentioned. That team had heart, guts and could flat out ball. It's so unfair to think that they would be exactly the same team and I'm not advocating that. Nick would surely be winding down, najera would have been replaced, josh, marquis would still be here and probably raef and a center of some sort. Surely walt, griffin, ???, ??? wouldn't be back.

Dude, I know we're digressing to a very old, worn out debate, and that you didn't mean to steer the thread that way, but I think it's relevant. When you look at the 03 team and I look at it, we see two completely different teams. You see a team that won 60 games, was two games away from the finals, and was on the verge of winning a championship. However, I see a team that blew a 3-0 lead in the first round to an inconsequential, second-tier Portland team. I see a team that won 60 by beating up on the bottom feeders of the league, but got the shit kicked out of them by the real contenders and were dismissed and even laughed at by the Lakers. Yes, Cuban (and Nellie) made the wrong moves, but I think serious moves definitely needed to be made. And yes, that team had heart and could flat-out ball, but I think the same can be said of the Kings, and look what happened to them. And again, you keep talking about this core that was so great. As I've stated in the past, I think that team's core consisted of the Big 3 and Van Exel. Van Exel was about to drop off anyway, so that leaves Dirk, Mike, and Nash; I never EVER saw Najera, Raef, Bell or anyone else as part of that "core." So now, Fin and Nash are gone, and we're all sad about that. But we needed a center desperately, or we would undoubtedly suffer the same fate in the postseason as we had in the past. If we could've gotten a decent center while retaining Nash, I would've been all for it, but alas, Cuban's spending had caught up with him and bit us all in the ass. I don't blame Cuban for not re-signing Nash. I wouldn't do it either with that payroll. However, I do blame Cuban for letting that payroll get so bloated in the first place. That's something that hurt this team significantly, but he's accepted the blame for it, so I've moved on.

Quote:

But I wouldn't have had to suffer through the ridiculous year after and this year when dirk had to carry this team single-handedly. A team which was probably just as close to missing the playoffs as making any noise in them. We beat houston but the suns kicked our fanny.

The 03-04 season was indeed ridiculous, but I think you are being a bit harsh to this year's team. Yes, Dirk did carry the team single-handledly for most of the season, but this was still a very deep team. Jet, Josh, Stack, Damp, KVH, Fin... That's a pretty strong supporting cast, and the team finished the regular season on a hot-streak. And yes, we did get beat by the Suns, but there are any number of reasons you can blame for this. And also, while some disagree, I don't see the Suns being anywhere near as strong next season as they were this past season, so I don't expect the Mavs to lose to them again.

birdsanctuary · 08-29-2005, 08:50 PM

Cuban will just be some dopey rich guy with money up the yin-yang until he wins a championship. There is nothing Cuban can do to gain peoples respect. When he wins a championship the way people will think of changes.

The guy's a good businessman, and I'll take 50 win seasons over lottery picks anyday. Cubes had the balls to bring in Nellie to build the foundation, and as long as Donnie's here this team will continue to stockpile young talent.

Drbio · 08-29-2005, 08:53 PM

Birdy- he is agreat businessman. He was lucky with Nellie whose coattails he rode...granted he paid for the right, but lucky nonetheless. However, even if he wins a championship, until he understands that his dumbass routines and comments adversely affect the franchise, he will always be a classless tool. I hope he wins numerous championships, but he will always be a dork.

Hitman · 08-29-2005, 08:55 PM

"When yo (you) uare (are) the point person and primary representative of a company you have the obligation to listen first and speak littel (little) if any at all. Your actions reflect the organization and Cuban's actions are an embarassment."

Sorry, but you don't understand how people come to be in these positions of power. It is by exerting their will and standing up for their beliefs. (whether or not people that post on a message board agree with you.)
Yes, you have to listen to the public -- when you are dealing with consumer consumption. Mark Cuban has no problems in that business. His arena is sold out every night.

I can( by your words) determine that you are not a primary representative of a company, nor in a position of power.

You don't come to power by being a puppet. If you ever become a multi-millionaire (doubtful), you would still be the same guy you are today.

Drbio · 08-29-2005, 09:05 PM

And your assumption, like most of your opinions would be wrong. Go figure.

Hitman · 08-29-2005, 09:09 PM

Ha.

My opinions are wrong.

Go figure, indeed.

Name a few of them, why don't you? I dare you.

Drbio · 08-29-2005, 09:12 PM

Basically most of them, but why drudge all those up huh? Typical.

Anyways...the fact remains...a lot of us don't hate Cuban, but we rather hate his childish classless commentary and the poor way he represents this team publically. It's great to have an owner who will open up the wallet but there is more to it than that and if you can't understand that it is your shortsightedness.

Hitman · 08-29-2005, 09:20 PM

Yes...typical.

you say -- "most of your opinions would be wrong."

and I say -- "name a few of them."

and you say -- "basically most of them."

and once again I say...name them.

Tell which ones are wrong.

Or maybe it is just you who is wrong.

Drbio · 08-29-2005, 09:37 PM

No...it is certainly you. But thanks for asking. And don't ignore the point....the fact remains...a lot of us don't hate Cuban, but we rather hate his childish classless commentary and the poor way he represents this team publically. It's great to have an owner who will open up the wallet but there is more to it than that and if you can't understand that it is your shortsightedness. You had a chubby to start up an argument wiht those who don't approve of Cubans' actions and had hoped that someone would try to make it a Finley based issue which it is not and when a reasonable reason was provided you couldn't stand it. Yes...typical.

Lukano · 08-29-2005, 09:44 PM

Drbio;

What has gotten into you?! You used to have some common sense, the rest of the herd, well, it's understandable but you?. What's the world come to? Hitman just smacked some sense into you LISTEN! DAMIT! Have a nice day

Drbio · 08-29-2005, 09:55 PM

Lukano - thanks for ignoring the facts. Many people do not care for Cuban's antics but are glad to have him paying the bills. Is that so freaking hard to understand? Are you two both so hardheaded that you cannot acknoweldge that? Mark Cuban is often an embarassment to this franchise. This is not rocket science here.