Kill Muqtada NOW!

[dude1394]

With all of the left nutso's saying dubya hitler, devil etc.... It continues to be his humanity that I think is causeing a lot of the political fallout from iraq and probably helping keep the chaos. The american people in general would feel much better if we were much more active and agressive in Iraq. Doing what we want to do and the consequences be damned.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10262006...ers.htm?page=0

October 26, 2006 -- IT WAS wrenching to listen to President Bush's news conference yesterday. He's struggling to do the right thing. But he's getting terrible advice.

He's still counting on a political solution in Iraq. Ain't going to happen. And you can take that to the blood bank.

Our famously loyal president has one grave flaw: He's a poor judge of character. He trusts the wrong people. Then he sticks by them.

Bush met Russia's Vladimir Putin, "looked into his soul" - and failed to recognize that the guy is an unreformed secret policeman. He stubbornly defends Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, the Pentagon's architect of failure. Now he's standing up for Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki - a man who has decided to back our enemies.

I lost faith in our engagement in Iraq last week. I can pinpoint the moment. It came when I heard that Maliki had demanded - successfully - that our military release a just-captured deputy of Muqtada al-Sadr who was running death squads.

As a former intelligence officer, that told me two things: First, Iraq's prime minister is betting on Muqtada to prevail, not us. Second, Muqtada, not the Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, is now the most powerful man in Iraq.

At his news conference, Bush was asked about another statement made by Maliki just hours before. Our troops had conducted a raid in Sadr City, Muqtada's Baghdad stronghold. The Iraqi PM quickly declared that "this will not happen again." He was signaling his allegiance to Muqtada. Publicly.

Oh, Maliki realizes his government wouldn't last a week if our troops withdrew. He doesn't want us to leave yet. But he's looking ahead.

For now, Maliki and his pals are using our troops to buy time while they pocket our money, amass power and build up arms. But they've written us off for the long term.

Does that mean we should leave?

Not yet. Iraq deserves one last chance. But to make that chance even remotely viable, we'll have to take desperate measures. We need to fight. And accept the consequences.

The first thing we need to do is to kill Muqtada al-Sadr, who's now a greater threat to our strategic goals than Osama bin Laden.

We should've killed him in 2003, when he first embarked upon his murder campaign. But our leaders were afraid of provoking riots.

Back then, the tumult might've lasted a week. Now we'll face a serious uprising. So be it. When you put off paying war's price, you pay compound interest in blood.

We must kill - not capture - Muqtada, then kill every gunman who comes out in the streets to avenge him.

Our policy of all-carrots-no-sticks has failed miserably. We delivered Iraq to zealots, gangsters and terrorists. Now our only hope is to prove that we mean business - that the era of peace, love and wasting American lives is over.

And after we've killed Muqtada and destroyed his Mahdi Army, we need to go after the Sunni insurgents. If we can't leave a democracy behind, we should at least leave the corpses of our enemies.

The holier-than-thou response to this proposal is predictable: "We can't kill our way out of this situation!" Well, boo-hoo. Friendly persuasion and billions of dollars haven't done the job. Give therapeutic violence a chance.

Our soldiers and Marines are dying to protect a government whose members are scrambling to ally themselves with sectarian militias and insurgent factions. President Bush needs to face reality. The Maliki government is a failure.

There's still a chance, if a slight one, that we can achieve a few of our goals in Iraq - if we let our troops make war, not love. But if our own leaders are unwilling to fight, it's time to leave and let Iraqis fight each other.

Our president owes Iraq's treacherous prime minister nothing. Get tough, or get out.

[AxdemxO]

Should have never gotten into this mess. Thats what greed gets you. No matter what happens Bush will end up a loser in History.

[capitalcity]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Should have never gotten into this mess. Thats what greed gets you. No matter what happens Bush will end up a loser in History.

Awesome. Just Awesome. If you're gonna spit out the 'blood for oil' line, then actually do it.

We sidetracked their "mess" into two mideast theaters. Rather than letting islamofacists "mess" things up 3000 civies at a time.


These aren't Halloween costumes.

[capitalcity]

62,040,610 votes = History.
0 domestic attacks since 9/11 = History.

Of course you probably skipped those chapters in Nutroot 501.

[AxdemxO]

Weather you guys like it or not this country mite be just slightly safer now then it was before. But all it takes is for the US to fall asleep again, and it will happen. Maybe not anytime soon, the US will fall asleep once again. Ill give it to Bush tht he has been able to keep the country on alert, but he has done it using lies and eventually people will get full of tht.

Ohh and we all know that the mess in Iraq was not even close to what it is now that the US is there.

[AxdemxO]

Originally Posted by capitalcity

62,040,610 votes = History.
0 domestic attacks since 9/11 = History.

Of course you probably skipped those chapters in Nutroot 501.

No attacks = good for US

56576566567556 votes bullshit, easy for you to sit here and say 4875475375874358374 voted OMG its history, but how many people lost their lives for no reason especially on the Iraqi side.

Is a 10,000 votes or 10,000 lives more important. To me its the lives.

[capitalcity]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Ohh and we all know that the mess in Iraq was not even close to what it is now that the US is there.

Q: What do you call a street littered with the nerve-gassed bodies of kurdish women and babies?

A: Tuesday in Saddam-run Iraq.

Get a clue - There is evil in this world that the United States of America is not responsible for, did not create and is now constrained to fight.

[AxdemxO]

Originally Posted by capitalcity

Q: What do you call a street littered with the nerve-gassed bodies of kurdish women and babies?

A: Tuesday in Saddam-run Iraq.

Get a clue - There is evil in this world that the United States of America is not responsible for, did not create and is now constrained to fight.

You call that genocide and put Saddam on trial.

But after that is done, what do you call tens of thousands dead Iraqis every year??

[capitalcity]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

...for no reason...

There it is again.

Just because you don't believe there are hundreds of thousands of people that would decapitate you if given the chance, doesn't mean there aren't hundreds of thousands of people that would decapitate you if given the chance.

Wise up Infidel.

[AxdemxO]

Originally Posted by capitalcity

There it is again.

Just because you don't believe there are hundreds of thousands of people that would decapitate you if given the chance, doesn't mean there aren't hundreds of thousands of people that would decapitate you if given the chance.

Wise up Infidel.

Sooooooooo what do you call tens of thousands of Iraqis dead every year after Saddam had been removed and is on trial.

[capitalcity]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

But after that is done, what do you call tens of thousands dead Iraqis every year??

Hard work our/their children's children will admire us for.

[AxdemxO]

Originally Posted by capitalcity

Hard work our/their children's children will admire us for.

Hhahah how ignorant. You think that the children that are left after all is done will admire the US for killing their fathers, uncles, brothers. This is just settin things up for generations to come.

[capitalcity]

vs.

[AxdemxO]

Hhahaha..even bigger Joke. If you think for a second that tht lil boy wont pik up a gun to help his brothers fight agains the enemy (US) ur kidding your self. Ant kid will be happy when they get a gift, but in a cup of years when they learn that their brothers and fathers were killed by the US or because of this war, no gifts in the world will replace the hatred they will feel.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

No attacks = good for US

56576566567556 votes bullshit, easy for you to sit here and say 4875475375874358374 voted OMG its history, but how many people lost their lives for no reason especially on the Iraqi side.

Is a 10,000 votes or 10,000 lives more important. To me its the lives.

So the iraqi's who are risking their lives to try and have self-determination and to not live under a dictator are just so many idiots? Their struggle is just pointless and useless. Yes they should just go back to being sheep.

You know standing up for freedom (yourselfs and others) isn't exactly a bloodless sport and I for one give the iraqis a hell of a lot more credit than you do.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

You call that genocide and put Saddam on trial.

But after that is done, what do you call tens of thousands dead Iraqis every year??

Patriots in a struggle to free themselves.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Hhahah how ignorant. You think that the children that are left after all is done will admire the US for killing their fathers, uncles, brothers. This is just settin things up for generations to come.

The US isn't killing all of those people, radical elements in their own country are killing those people to try and bring a theocracy to the country or just as revenge for all of the atrocities that have been committed against them.

The killing going on in Iraq is MOSTLY directed at each other and the Iraqi government now.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Hhahaha..even bigger Joke. If you think for a second that tht lil boy wont pik up a gun to help his brothers fight agains the enemy (US) ur kidding your self. Ant kid will be happy when they get a gift, but in a cup of years when they learn that their brothers and fathers were killed by the US or because of this war, no gifts in the world will replace the hatred they will feel.

History doesn't support you.

Japan. Germany.

I pulled a Reforger (Return of Forces to Germany) exercise in 1990 with the US Army. I met several older gentlemen who were around during WWII who thanked me and my country for what "we" did.

I wasn't alive during WWII, but two of my great uncles were, one of which was with the first unit of troops into Dachau. The other fought in the Pacific theatre and was permanently disabled on the island of Attu of the Aleutians.

These (countries) people were soundly defeated by the US. They were built back up, and they have gone on to become powerful nations (at least the West German side).

Why don't you think this could happen in Iraq? Too me, you just seem like a coward, but I tend to judge people by their statements which I know I shouldn't.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Hhahaha..even bigger Joke. If you think for a second that tht lil boy wont pik up a gun to help his brothers fight agains the enemy (US) ur kidding your self. Ant kid will be happy when they get a gift, but in a cup of years when they learn that their brothers and fathers were killed by the US or because of this war, no gifts in the world will replace the hatred they will feel.

Only in the middle east would countries that have had another one overthrow a despicable tyrant and protect them while they try to build their own country, would that country be hated. I don't know if that will be true, but only in that bizarro world would it even be possible.

[Mavdog]

it's disturbing to read the proclamation of "kill muqtada" while at the very same time there are comensurate proclamations of democracy and a new day in iraq.

guess what? a large number of iraqis voted for sadr. in many people's eyes (not mine mind you) the militia he heads is the only force protecting them as the government can't.

yes, I agree he is a problem as his message is anti-american.

killing him seems a lot like the type of action the guy we deposed would support....

[kg_veteran]

So what is your suggestion?

[Mavdog]

not to try and kill him for sure...

you're asking for what would be a solution to this mess.

I can agree (I think) with you that we cannot just leave at this point.

[kg_veteran]

I think al-Sadr has to be stripped of his power. That is going to cause more conflict, at least in the short term, but it is necessary. I think killing him (in combat, obviously) is probably the only way you're going to get him to surrender his power.

[dude1394]

The guy is openly combating the government? Just because he's elected doesn't change that.

[Mavdog]

it's not that simple dude. he isn't actually challenging or "combating" the government as you describe it.

from what I've read his militia is a part of the government as their daytime jobs.

here's what I see: as long as the militias are unchecked the government cannot control the situation. sadr, as well as the other militia leaders, must be convinced to allow the state to be the only armed force, and to become a member of the state rather than a parallel force.

if he and the others are not convinved to join in, there will continue to be civil insurrection, one militia pitted against the others as well as the state forces. a bit of anarchy.

that's civil war, and that is not good for us or the region.

yep, a mess-o-potania for sure.

[Usually Lurkin]

As a former intelligence officer, that told me two things: First, Iraq's prime minister is betting on Muqtada to prevail, not us.

Sounds like he's been watching the election polls here, and reading "cut n run."

[AxdemxO]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

History doesn't support you.

Japan. Germany.

I pulled a Reforger (Return of Forces to Germany) exercise in 1990 with the US Army. I met several older gentlemen who were around during WWII who thanked me and my country for what "we" did.

I wasn't alive during WWII, but two of my great uncles were, one of which was with the first unit of troops into Dachau. The other fought in the Pacific theatre and was permanently disabled on the island of Attu of the Aleutians.

These (countries) people were soundly defeated by the US. They were built back up, and they have gone on to become powerful nations (at least the West German side).

Why don't you think this could happen in Iraq? Too me, you just seem like a coward, but I tend to judge people by their statements which I know I shouldn't.

But we are not talking about Germany or Japan. But you are kiddin yourself if you think that Japanese and Germans dont hate the US. The whole world basically hates the US besides Great Britain. Most do it on the low though, but the countries in the middle east are open about it. and i am tellin you this will go on for generations.

[FishForLunch]

The solution is in the hands of Muslims in Iraq, once they decide to stop killing their own co-religionist, then they will be a political solution. Till then we have to hear the Arabs and their excuses why US is Satan and we are after their oil.

[AxdemxO]

Originally Posted by FishForLunch

The solution is in the hands of Muslims in Iraq, once they decide to stop killing their own co-religionist, then they will be a political solution. Till then we have to hear the Arabs and their excuses why US is Satan and we are after their oil.

I agree that the solution is there, but that solution would still not be a good one for the US. If they stop fighting each other then they unite to fight the US. The level of muslim against muslim violence was not anywhere close to what it is now after the US went in. Thats why they will keep blaming the US.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Kill the bastard. Sorry, but some people the world is just better off without, and Sadr is one of them.

[Rhylan]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Is a 10,000 votes or 10,000 lives more important. To me its the lives.

I sure am glad you weren't working in a decision making capacity in America ~230 years ago.

[AxdemxO]

Originally Posted by Rhylan

I sure am glad you weren't working in a decision making capacity in America ~230 years ago.

Well if 1 vote = 1 life to you than there is something wrong with you. The people of Iraq are losing their lives over a mess that the US made. It would be great if they voted and things improved. But they are dying by thousands while nothing has improved there and i dont see it improving anytime soon, cuz Bush is soo dumb, greety, and ignorant.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

cuz Bush is soo dumb, greety, and ignorant.

Wow... that's deep. You've convinced me.

[AxdemxO]

Read this and try again......

[AxdemxO]

Yee so what part of tht was wrong??

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

it's not that simple dude. he isn't actually challenging or "combating" the government as you describe it.

from what I've read his militia is a part of the government as their daytime jobs.

here's what I see: as long as the militias are unchecked the government cannot control the situation. sadr, as well as the other militia leaders, must be convinced to allow the state to be the only armed force, and to become a member of the state rather than a parallel force.

if he and the others are not convinved to join in, there will continue to be civil insurrection, one militia pitted against the others as well as the state forces. a bit of anarchy.

that's civil war, and that is not good for us or the region.

yep, a mess-o-potania for sure.

It's only not so simple if you think inside the box here. If the government and the US military decide that he needs to be taken out, they can take him out. Now there will be a whole lot of o' how can we do that from the left, but the people who are getting murdered by this guy will be glad.

Sure he's been elected, but he's openly killing citizens with his militia. If there was an elected politician in this country that had a gang killing a bunch of people there would be no problem with killing the dude. We wouldn't HAVE to do it here, but there it looks they might.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

I agree that the solution is there, but that solution would still not be a good one for the US. If they stop fighting each other then they unite to fight the US. The level of muslim against muslim violence was not anywhere close to what it is now after the US went in. Thats why they will keep blaming the US.

The iraqi people have continued to vote for and die for democracy. It's their inane tribalism that is causing most of the civil war at the moment. I don't see any indication that they will unite to fight the americans, in fact they continue to ask us to stay.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

But we are not talking about Germany or Japan. But you are kiddin yourself if you think that Japanese and Germans dont hate the US. The whole world basically hates the US besides Great Britain. Most do it on the low though, but the countries in the middle east are open about it. and i am tellin you this will go on for generations.

I would say this is more afraid of the big bad wolf than anything. It's more of a parental-love-hate than anything. (I'd also completely disagree with Japan, I haven't seen that at all).

They want someone to take care of them but resent it at the same time.

[AxdemxO]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Sure he's been elected, but he's openly killing citizens with his militia. If there was an elected politician in this country that had a gang killing a bunch of people there would be no problem with killing the dude. We wouldn't HAVE to do it here, but there it looks they might.

Iraq is not America. So you cant make that comparison.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Iraq is not America. So you cant make that comparison.

Well it's obvious that YOU can't make the comparison.