S.A. sportscaster observation about the Suns... - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Big Shot Rob · 01-27-2007, 12:33 AM

In the Spurs postgame report tonight, one of the broadcasters says he examined the Suns win/loss ratio by looking only how they did against the following teams:

1. Mavs
2. Spurs
3. Rockets
4. Utah
5. Lakers

(Might be another--can't remember right now.)

He says when you use these teams as the benchmark, the Suns only have a 2-7 record.

He admits he only did this with respect to the Suns because so many national broadcasters are falling all over the Suns because of their win/loss record. Still--he could not see how the Suns would be favored over the Mavs, who are playing the best basketball thus far this season.

Big Shot Rob · 01-27-2007, 12:35 AM

Sorry--I just now saw the Phoenix v. Mavs thread--

Mods-- please merge

Dirkadirkastan · 01-27-2007, 02:39 AM

Suns vs.

Clippers: 1-1
Jazz: 0-2
Lakers: 0-1
Mavs: 0-2
Spurs: 0-1
Wizards: 1-1

Suns own the Rockets (2-0), but everyone else in the top of the West is their daddy.

WayOutWest · 01-27-2007, 10:51 AM

The Suns will show everyone durring the playoffs what they really are....

A great REGULAR season team.

dirt_dobber · 01-27-2007, 12:59 PM

another interesting note about the suns I saw posted over at Dallasbasketball.com
================================================== ================

Suns luck out again.........

posted by TXBamanut

""""..not for winning the game, but for getting yet another team MINUS the team's best player...

No Michael Redd for the Bucks tonight...amazing. Has ANY other team in history ever gotten off so easy as the Suns? They've missed KG and Ricky Davis, Marbury, Redd, etc...the list for January just goes on and on...amazing.

January

Bulls - no Hinrich
Toronto - No TJ Ford
Miami - no Wade, Shaq, Walker or Posey
GS - no Jason Richardson
Seattle - no Rashard Lewis
Houston - No Yao, McGrady, Sura
Twolves - No KG, Ricky Davis
NYK - No Marbury, Francis
Bucks - No Redd, Mo Williams, Bobby Simmons

I don't want to fault them, because they just play the schedule they have, but this has got to be a record or something for hitting just about every team without 1,2, and sometimes 3 of their best players in one month. Amazing."""""""
================================================== =====================

.

Big Shot Rob · 01-27-2007, 07:43 PM

And they will face the Spurs without Matt Bonner!

rakesh.s · 01-27-2007, 08:11 PM

and miami sucked against all the best teams last year.

don't mean a thing come playoff time..

DarenG · 01-27-2007, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WayOutWest

The Suns will show everyone durring the playoffs what they really are....

A great REGULAR season team.

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't they make it all the way to the WCF 2 years in a row? That's not a great playoff team?What if they make it to the WCF for the 3rd straight year against us? Does that mean their now a great playoff team? I guess that depends on your idea of a good playoff team. Even if they don't make it to us, going to the WCF 2 out of the last 3 years is pretty dang good.

I do agree though that they shouldn't be ranked ahead of us not so much for the early season losses (because they were not healthy) but because I think our schedule has been tougher and we delivered.

nashtymavsfan13 · 01-27-2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarenG

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't they make it all the way to the WCF 2 years in a row? That's not a great playoff team?What if they make it to the WCF for the 3rd straight year against us? Does that mean their now a great playoff team? I guess that depends on your idea of a good playoff team.

Then they can go home for the 3rd straight year.

DarenG · 01-27-2007, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

Then they can go home for the 3rd straight year.

True. lol. I just don't get the statement that their not a good playoff team.

Tokey41 · 01-27-2007, 08:49 PM

They arent a good playoff team based on the fact that their win loss record is crap against the elite in the West. If they have to play the Spurs or Jazz before us i'm wondering if they will even make it to the WCF (their record versus those teams says no). The win/loss record is definitely deceiving and it's crazy how many teams have injured stars when the Suns come to town... but as we can see from this factual evidence it will likely be disproved come playoff time when they face quality teams that are hopefully at full capacity.

Big Shot Rob · 01-27-2007, 09:04 PM

If the Suns had played either San Antonio or the Mavs in the semi-finals, there is no way they would have been in the WCF.

I am sorry--their streak is fools gold. When the Suns played the Spurs in 2005 WCF, Amare was on fire--but the Spurs beat them with better defense.

AVery has the Mavs playing the same tenacious defense--Mavs would kick their ass in a seven game series.

V2M · 01-27-2007, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rakesh.s

and miami sucked against all the best teams last year.

don't mean a thing come playoff time..

Good point.

DarenG · 01-28-2007, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V2M

Good point.

No great point.

bcrav4 · 01-28-2007, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarenG

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't they make it all the way to the WCF 2 years in a row? That's not a great playoff team?What if they make it to the WCF for the 3rd straight year against us? Does that mean their now a great playoff team? I guess that depends on your idea of a good playoff team. Even if they don't make it to us, going to the WCF 2 out of the last 3 years is pretty dang good.

I do agree though that they shouldn't be ranked ahead of us not so much for the early season losses (because they were not healthy) but because I think our schedule has been tougher and we delivered.

They also have to take nearly EVERY series to 7 games. If they are such a good playoff team, they would be able to do a better job of closing out series early. The longer the series lasts the more it seems like luck (hence many Mavs fan's fear of facing San Antonio again the playoffs).

Dirkadirkastan · 01-28-2007, 02:31 AM

In 2005, the Suns beat the Grizzlies and the Mavericks. In case nobody remembers, the 2005 Mavs were in transition. They had a new coach and a lack of identity. Not an elite team by any means.

In 2006, the Suns beat the Lakers and Clippers. Neither team was elite, and it still took the Suns seven games.

Until Phoenix beats someone respectable out of the playoffs, I will still see them as just a regular season team.

DarenG · 01-28-2007, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

In 2005, the Suns beat the Grizzlies and the Mavericks. In case nobody remembers, the 2005 Mavs were in transition. They had a new coach and a lack of identity. Not an elite team by any means.

In 2006, the Suns beat the Lakers and Clippers. Neither team was elite, and it still took the Suns seven games.

Until Phoenix beats someone respectable out of the playoffs, I will still see them as just a regular season team.

In 2005 they went most of the way without Joe Johnson who was a starter and still made it to the WCF. The following year they did that again without a major piece in Amare and a key role player in Kurt. Not to mention Raja (another starter) had a pulled calf muscle since the Lakers series. They still got to the WCF 2 years in a row despite being without major starters both years. You give credit to the Mavs for being in transition but not to the Suns getting as far as they did as a wounded duck? That team hasn't had a healthy playoff run in 2 years.

So if you don't consider the Suns a good playoff team, then considering we played the Grizz in round 1, then the only good playoff team we played was the Spurs. The year before that we played the Rockets who were hugely inconsistant the entire year. So can you call us a good playoff team for beating 1 quality team in 2 playoff seasons then losing to the Heat who had the worst record against the East and West elite out of all the playoff teams?

Thespiralgoeson · 01-28-2007, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarenG

In 2005 they went most of the way without Joe Johnson who was a starter and still made it to the WCF. The following year they did that again without a major piece in Amare and a key role player in Kurt. Not to mention Raja (another starter) had a pulled calf muscle since the Lakers series. They still got to the WCF 2 years in a row despite being without major starters both years. You give credit to the Mavs for being in transition but not to the Suns getting as far as they did as a wounded duck? That team hasn't had a healthy playoff run in 2 years.

So if you don't consider the Suns a good playoff team, then considering we played the Grizz in round 1, then the only good playoff team we played was the Spurs. The year before that we played the Rockets who were hugely inconsistant the entire year. So can you call us a good playoff team for beating 1 quality team in 2 playoff seasons then losing to the Heat who had the worst record against the East and West elite out of all the playoff teams?

Here's how I see it; the 05 WCF appearance was legit, and last year's wasn't. The only reason they got there last year was because of the stupid rule awarding the top 3 seeds to division leaders. They played the Clippers in the second round, while the Spurs and the Mavs, the teams with the two best records in the West, played eachother. The Mavs/Spurs series last year was the WCF. The Mavs/Suns series was just a formality.

Grammaton Cleric · 01-28-2007, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Here's how I see it; the 05 WCF appearance was legit, and last year's wasn't. The only reason they got there last year was because of the stupid rule awarding the top 3 seeds to division leaders. They played the Clippers in the second round, while the Spurs and the Mavs, the teams with the two best records in the West, played eachother. The Mavs/Spurs series last year was the WCF. The Mavs/Suns series was just a formality.

And the Mavericks have done any better? The ridiculous lengths people go to around here to poo-poo the Suns' accomplishments borders on insane. Why do you guys even care???

If the Mavericks are the better team, it'll be proven soon enough.

rmacomic · 01-28-2007, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammaton Cleric

And the Mavericks have done any better? The ridiculous lengths people go to around here to poo-poo the Suns' accomplishments borders on insane. Why do you guys even care???

If the Mavericks are the better team, it'll be proven soon enough.

Well so far this season we're 2-0 against them so...We're better.

dmavs1980 · 01-28-2007, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammaton Cleric

And the Mavericks have done any better? The ridiculous lengths people go to around here to poo-poo the Suns' accomplishments borders on insane. Why do you guys even care???

If the Mavericks are the better team, it'll be proven soon enough.

Lol,I think we already have

Tokey41 · 01-28-2007, 11:30 PM

I don't know how people can ignore their terrible record against GOOD teams, you know the teams that they need to beat in the playoffs? This little factual tidbit is gold. To be honest they weren't even that impressive versus the Cavs despite their big three all scoring in the 20's and Lebron and company aren't even that great of a team. But I won't be surprised if they beat SA coming off a back to back (against another elite team no less) but lets be realistic, if you have a losing record against elite teams you shouldn't be considered elite yourself despite a winning record.

I don't care about previous years performance in the playoffs or other teams performances who had losing records versus the elite until the playoffs (especially Miami, you know Dwade did the same thing to Detroit that he did to us right? Let's not even debate how they became champions, it's not worth it) let's focus on the Phoenix Suns team we see now and what we have seen is that they cant beat who they need to beat.

Thespiralgoeson · 01-29-2007, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammaton Cleric

And the Mavericks have done any better? The ridiculous lengths people go to around here to poo-poo the Suns' accomplishments borders on insane. Why do you guys even care???

If the Mavericks are the better team, it'll be proven soon enough.

Son, what are you talking about?

Have the Mavericks done better? Well, if you're talking about how deep each team has gotten into the playoffs, then yes, the Mavs have done better.

And I'm not going to any lengths at all to "poo poo" the Suns' accomplishments. The fact is, last year the Mavs had the 4th seed when they should've had the 2nd, or at least the 3rd. San Antonio should've played the Clippers in the 2nd round, and the Suns and Mavs should've played eachother.

Not legit.

DarenG · 01-29-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammaton Cleric

And the Mavericks have done any better? The ridiculous lengths people go to around here to poo-poo the Suns' accomplishments borders on insane. Why do you guys even care???

If the Mavericks are the better team, it'll be proven soon enough.

Ridiculous is right. It's a defense mechanism.

The Suns will be beat soon enough by the Mavs. Having said that Miami had a horrible record against elite East and West teams so even when the Mavs beat the Suns it won't mean jack until the playoffs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Son, what are you talking about?

You everybody's dad?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Have the Mavericks done better? Well, if you're talking about how deep each team has gotten into the playoffs, then yes, the Mavs have done better.

He' probably looking at overall playoff record the last 2 years in which case he is right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

And I'm not going to any lengths at all to "poo poo" the Suns' accomplishments. The fact is, last year the Mavs had the 4th seed when they should've had the 2nd, or at least the 3rd. San Antonio should've played the Clippers in the 2nd round, and the Suns and Mavs should've played eachother.

Coulda woulda shoulda. You play the cards your delt. We should have played better in the finals but we didn't. We shouldn't have lost against the Bulls the other night but we did. What the Suns are doing is remarkable. What the Mavs are doing is remarkable. Heck in any other season the Spurs record would be considered great.

MFFL · 01-29-2007, 10:39 AM

3 top, and 4 of the top 5 threads in this section are about the Suns.

I thought I had logged onto the wrong board.

Drbio · 01-29-2007, 10:43 AM

Be careful MFFL....you might offend a Suns fan or a Suns nuthugger and get moderated.

DarenG · 01-29-2007, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drbio

Be careful MFFL....you might offend a Suns fan or a Suns nuthugger and get moderated.

Wait until I start some Spurs threads. Then things will get really heated.

Grammaton Cleric · 01-29-2007, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Son, what are you talking about?

I ain't yer son...Jack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Have the Mavericks done better? Well, if you're talking about how deep each team has gotten into the playoffs, then yes, the Mavs have done better.

You beat the Suns last year, then didn't win a title. The Suns beat you the year before and then didn't win a title.

"Oh but that was a DIFFERENT TEAM," you say. "THIS Mavs squad is a vast improvement over that one." But yet the Suns are still judged based on what they've DONE as opposed to what they're DOING and that's ok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

And I'm not going to any lengths at all to "poo poo" the Suns' accomplishments. The fact is, last year the Mavs had the 4th seed when they should've had the 2nd, or at least the 3rd.

Yeah, but it wasn't a HUGE issue for anyone until last year for some reason. It's been that way since the realignment. Where was the outcry in '05 when the Sonics were seeded ahead of the Mavericks despite having 6 fewer wins?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

San Antonio should've played the Clippers in the 2nd round, and the Suns and Mavs should've played eachother.

And who knows what would have happened against a fresher Suns team that had only played seven games up to that point as opposed to FOURTEEN? I could understand the complaining by Mavs fans had you actually LOST to the Spurs. You didn't, so what's the big freaking deal?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Not legit.

Who? The Suns?

Whatever...

Nash2STAT · 01-29-2007, 12:31 PM

Keep doubting the Suns. I love it.

rmacomic · 01-29-2007, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammaton Cleric

I ain't yer son...Jack.

You beat the Suns last year, then didn't win a title. The Suns beat you the year before and then didn't win a title.

"Oh but that was a DIFFERENT TEAM," you say. "THIS Mavs squad is a vast improvement over that one." But yet the Suns are still judged based on what they've DONE as opposed to what they're DOING and that's ok.

Ok lets talk about this year. What's the Sun's record against the Mav's? Oh yeah 0-2.

Windmill360 · 01-29-2007, 01:36 PM

SeattleMavsFan · 01-29-2007, 02:25 PM

lol this arguing is ridiculous. both are great teams. this is a new year. Yes, so far the Mavs have had the tougher schedule and the Suns have gotten "lucky". they also haven't taken care of "elite" teams like the mavs. All this will even out by the end of the reason. And all this really doesn't matter anyway. Regular season is regular season. The Suns could win every game and lose in the first round. The mavs could lose every game and win the whole thing. Nobody knows. Come playoff time, everybody steps up. For the suns lack of defense, they still are a fantastic team. that said though, i do not think they can beat the Mavs in a 7 game series come playoff time.

Flacolaco · 01-29-2007, 02:30 PM

I heart trolls.

Grammaton Cleric · 01-29-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I heart trolls.

I "heart" people who label every opposing opinion as a "troll".

SeattleMavsFan · 01-29-2007, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

I heart trolls.

you talking about me? If so, you are sadly mistaken...

Nash2STAT · 01-29-2007, 07:38 PM

The Suns have not lost by double digits all season. Since November 10th the Suns have lost 3 games by a total of 10 points. Two of those games went into overtime, 3OTs at Utah, and OT against Washington when the Suns arrived back into Phoenix merely 3 hours before tip-off after being snowed-in in Denver for a few days. The most recent loss I think you can all remember, and if you do you would probably agree that game could have gone either way, as is the usual case when the Suns and Mavs meet.

I respect the Mavs, they are a good team, and other fans shouldn't jump to the first bit of evidence that could support their case without observing the entire situation. All I'm saying is, know your facts before you form an opinion. Or else you come across as just a blatant homer, in which case your opinion is irrelevant.

Respect the game, and respect the opposition. We all want to win, but those who are too shortsighted are probably the ones who've never won a thing.

Drbio · 01-29-2007, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windmill360°

Nice.