Dirk throws avery under the bus, finally. :) - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dude1394 · 10-29-2007, 09:43 PM

All this points to Avery... I'm really glad that Avery brought in some coaching help because he needed it. He might have also needed to GSW fiasco, because the reason that the mavs were out of gas was a direct result of the general. And dirk's comment may not have been meant to be thrown at Avery, but it is directly pointed at him.
http://mavscourtsideview.blogspot.co...to-finish.html

Quote:

Monday, October 29, 2007
Back again but not to "finish"

The Mavs broke every huddle and ended every practice last season with the rallying cry “Finish.” Not so this time around.

It’s back to the basics for Avery Johnson’s crew.

“We’re not going with any more trick slogans like ‘Finish’ or anything,” he said. “Just want to try to stay stronger a little bit more than we did last year and learn from both of our years.”

The 2006 season ended with four straight losses in the NBA Finals. They exited in the first round in May.

“I thought we were a lot stronger the year before,” Johnson said. “Last year I didn’t see it as much. Mentally, I thought we wore down a little bit and we just didn’t have it, not even in the playoffs, but the last 10 or 15 games. We’ll try to stay strong and get back to playing that Mavericks defense like we can.”

Dirk Nowitzki agreed, saying the team did run out of gas.

“We won 67 games, but it didn’t really feel like it,” he said. “We kept stressing and kept the intensity so high and then once the playoffs came we really had no other step to go to, no other gear.

“Hopefully this year we can enjoy and really have fun with each other on and off the floor. And then it’s all about being ready in April and May. Last year when it came time for the playoffs, we weren’t on top of our game. All of us.”

Johnson is ready to get the season going Halloween Night at Cleveland.

“After our finish last year I think there was some that thought we weren’t going to show up this year,” he said, “but we’re back again and we’re excited to be here.”

mkat · 10-29-2007, 09:49 PM

that isn't throwing under the bus. throwing under the bus would be dirk saying it was all avery's fault. this is a non story.

dude1394 · 10-29-2007, 09:52 PM

That was dirk-speak for avery screwed up last year and he did. It's not meant to be a "story" just more insight into the team.

chumdawg · 10-29-2007, 10:05 PM

After all the not-so-subliminal words Avery has had about Dirk...it's about time the big German responds in kind.

dude1394 · 10-29-2007, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

After all the not-so-subliminal words Avery has had about Dirk...it's about time the big German responds in kind.

Here, here.

Jack.Kerr · 10-29-2007, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

That was dirk-speak for avery screwed up last year and he did. It's not meant to be a "story" just more insight into the team.

I've noticed that you take every opportunity to bash Avery Johnson. In fact, you even fabricate occasions to unfairly make him responsible for the last two years' playoff failures, such as this non-story below where you attempt to say that Dirk was attributing the failure to Avery. (I don't read Dirk's comments that way, btw, and I think he'd sooner take the responsibility himself than blame Avery.)

Clearly, for whatever reason, you didn't think Johnson was the right choice to succeed Nelson.

The question for you then is who you think should've coached the Mavericks after Nelson quit on the team--Donnie? Del? Who?

Just so we understand where you're coming from.

Tokey41 · 10-29-2007, 10:20 PM

Not too harsh of words... still, could have picked a better time than so close to opening night to take some 'jabs' (if you want to call them that) at his coach.

dude1394 · 10-29-2007, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

I've noticed that you take every opportunity to bash Avery Johnson. In fact, you even fabricate occasions to unfairly make him responsible for the last two years' playoff failures, such as this non-story below where you attempt to say that Dirk was attributing the failure to Avery. (I don't read Dirk's comments that way, btw, and I think he'd sooner take the responsibility himself than blame Avery.)

Clearly, for whatever reason, you didn't think Johnson was the right choice to succeed Nelson.

The question for you then is who you think should've coached the Mavericks after Nelson quit on the team--Donnie? Del? Who?

Just so we understand where you're coming from.

I don't take every opportunity, but I do believe that Avery was the reason we...got to the finals as well as lost the finals. Last years' GSW is all on him imo.

My problem is twofold:
1. Dirk takes the hit on everything that goes wrong on this team. He's a standup guy and will take it upon himself. And avery has let him and even added to it.
I don't believe that dirk was the biggest issue in the last couple of playoff problems. That's just my opinion.
2. Avery never took it upon himself until now. He's also done some really silly things in learning how to coach. Moving the players from their hotel room, the "finish" last year, wearing his team out during the regular season, throwing his star player under the bus many,many times. Citing their lack of leadership, lack of strength etc.
And it's true to a point. But he continued to miss the point that he got his butt out-coached twice.

With respect to another coach, no I don't want one. I've never advocated replacing avery, I don't think you can find a post saying that. He's young, inexperienced and he's been making bad mistakes on the big stage. I want to see evidence that he acknowledges it and does something about it. But he's gotten them there and he's changed the teams culture, that I like a lot. It will serve them well going forward.

Hiring Westphal to teach him somethings about offense seems a positive. Not having a slogan for the year is another.

But I still think I see obstinance in Avery that I hope doesn't bite us in the butt some more. I want to see him fix the zone problem and I want to see him make adjustments in the next playoffs that work. He did that in the San Antoinio series but he couldn't against Riley.

For the mavs to win a championship they have to have a coach who's also "coaching" at a championship level. I'm thinking Avery will get there, I'm just impatient to see it.

LonghornDub · 10-29-2007, 10:21 PM

Man, I think you guys read WAY too much into this stuff. Avery hasn't bashed Dirk. Dirk hasn't bashed Avery. Just because one of them says something about the other that is short of unqualified praise doesn't mean that there is "bashing" going on. Part of the professional world is constructive critique and commentary between colleagues.

WraithXx · 10-29-2007, 10:23 PM

in an attempt to bash Avery, as usual, you've painted your little Golden Boy Nowitzki to be the type of "team player" that would throw his coach under the bus - subtle or not.

rabbitproof · 10-29-2007, 10:27 PM

I also don't see Avery bashing here. A lot of that pressure was self-induced after the Finals loss. Recall the quotes. I think someone has it in their sig, something like "I'll never forget until I win it all."

Now maybe Avery should have been the one to reign them back as the head of the team but I think Dirk (as well as the rest of team, Avery included) is also realizing going full-tilt for 82 is not the way to go.

I just see growth here.

Flacolaco · 10-29-2007, 10:38 PM

Wow I dont know, I just don't see that as much of a jab. Maybe I'm not reading it right. The first part was Avery, and this was all Dirk said right?

Quote:

“We won 67 games, but it didn’t really feel like it,” he said. “We kept stressing and kept the intensity so high and then once the playoffs came we really had no other step to go to, no other gear.

“Hopefully this year we can enjoy and really have fun with each other on and off the floor. And then it’s all about being ready in April and May. Last year when it came time for the playoffs, we weren’t on top of our game. All of us.”

DirkFTW · 10-29-2007, 10:41 PM

Quote:

“We won 67 games, but it didn’t really feel like it,” he said. “We kept stressing and kept the intensity so high and then once the playoffs came we really had no other step to go to, no other gear.

“Hopefully this year we can enjoy and really have fun with each other on and off the floor. And then it’s all about being ready in April and May. Last year when it came time for the playoffs, we weren’t on top of our game. All of us.”

Wow, that's cold, Dirk...

LonghornDub · 10-29-2007, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirkFTW

Wow, that's cold, Dirk...

I cracked up. Great stuff. That's seriously the only way anyone could read this as "bashing".

dirno2000 · 10-29-2007, 10:43 PM

I don't buy any of it. We returned a team that crashed in the first round virtually intact so Avery and the players have to attribute the failure to something. Fatigue is the most convenient excuse. How can you be to tired too win a championship?

It would be different if the Warriors and then the Jazz stretched them to seven games and they burnt out against the Spurs. After the first have of game 1 against the Warriors you knew we were in trouble. Blame it on fatigue but they looked shell shocked to me.

nowhereman · 10-29-2007, 10:47 PM

wait - so dirk is using the line that everyone else on the mavs is using and how is this bashing in any way?

chumdawg · 10-29-2007, 11:04 PM

You can call it bashing or you can call it whatever you want. But Dirk is saying that the entire season was stressful and intense, to such an extent that they didn't feel they had anything left in reserve.

He is saying that they felt like they overachieved in the regular season.

He is at least hinting that last year they weren't having a lot of fun doing their jobs.

And he is telling you that they were not ready to begin the playoffs.

Now, how much of that is on the players and how much of that is on the coach?

Flacolaco · 10-29-2007, 11:07 PM

And how much of it would need saying if Damps shoulder wasn't killing him and forcing that weird rotation.

No more looking back. Let's look forward.

Go Mavs.

jthig32 · 10-29-2007, 11:08 PM

Bashing might be a bit strong, but who do guys think Dirk feels is responsible for the teams outlook last season?

If Dirk had been somewhat critical of the makeup of the roster last year (in a very nice, Dirk-ish way, like this is) do you not think people would read that as a bit of a shot, at least a small one, at Cubes/Donnie?

Of course they would, and they'd be right.

Not saying Dirk is unhappy with Avery or anything like that. But his displeasure with the outlook of last year's team points straight at Avery.

As to Dirno's point, I get where you're coming from, but I do think there's something to playing with playoffs intensity all season, and not having another gear to go to. Now one would think that their current gear would have beaten the Warriors, but I think there's something mentally there when you realize you don't have another level to go too.

dirno2000 · 10-29-2007, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

As to Dirno's point, I get where you're coming from, but I do think there's something to playing with playoffs intensity all season, and not having another gear to go to. Now one would think that their current gear would have beaten the Warriors, but I think there's something mentally there when you realize you don't have another level to go too.

I would dispute the fact that they played with playoff intensity the entire you. They went on cruise control after the east coast road trip. Conversely, the Warriors had to play the last month like every game was an elimination game. I don't think they took it up a level they just kept playing basketball.

The Bull went full throttle for two years straight. It's tough to use them as an example because there's always a Jordan exception. But it does prove that professional athletes are capable of maintaining focus for long periods of time.

Jack.Kerr · 10-30-2007, 12:26 AM

So what I'm hearing is that first Avery rode them too hard last year, in an attempt to win the division and gain homecourt advantage for a playoff matchup with the Spurs or the Suns. when everybody was yelling for him to let up, lose some games, screw 70-wins, forget defensive intensity, make sure they knew how to attack a zone, and be prepared to go small-ball.

Then he compounded his mistake by shutting the team down too early last year to try to get the players rested for the opening round matchup, and didn't have any way to re-focus the team and motivate them to compete hard against the Warriors, for whom he didn't have any counter-strategies. But when he smacked them in the face the year before against the Heat by moving them to a hotel where they could re-focus, that was the wrong move too, and his fault again.

And now Westphal is going to make the difference that Del Harris didn't.

Should be an interesting season.

G-Man · 10-30-2007, 02:46 AM

While some are quick to bash Avery, look at what he overcame last year. they brought in Anthony Johnson to help with some defense and leadership, and he was a totla bust. They brought in George and he was great until midseason, when he totally fizzled. Same with that big white stiff who's name has apparently been blocked from my mind.

AJ had to maneuver around all that, and ended up putting the weight back on the only guys who could deliver. He had to go back to Terry who delivered a lot of wins, but he was never a good defender, and in GS, was totally exposed, as was Stack, neither of whom was fast enough to defend the GS fast Break.

Was Avery outcoached? absolutly, but don't you think Nellie had a bit of an advantage, having spent six years with Dirk. His guys were totally drilled on how to defend the big German's every move. They matched up extremely well at every position, and no, starting Damp would not have made a dimes worth of difference. Yes Avery should have come up with a plan that worked. He didn't, and the Mavs lost.

Last year is over. Get over it. It took me until now to, and it still hurts. bad. so lets move on, shall we?

alby · 10-30-2007, 03:00 AM

dirkftw

MavsX · 10-30-2007, 07:00 AM

this is a non-story!

Bookit · 10-30-2007, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Hiring Westphal to teach him somethings about offense seems a positive. Not having a slogan for the year is another.

But I still think I see obstinance in Avery that I hope doesn't bite us in the butt some more. I want to see him fix the zone problem and I want to see him make adjustments in the next playoffs that work. He did that in the San Antoinio series but he couldn't against Riley.

For the mavs to win a championship they have to have a coach who's also "coaching" at a championship level. I'm thinking Avery will get there, I'm just impatient to see it.

Totally agree. Avery is very good agains man to man defenses. He sucks against the zone. The Mavs were lucky to play some teams (SA and PHX) in the playoffs that didn't really use the zone. The Mavs will never win a title until they can beat the zone imo. Hopefully Weasphal will help with that.

Silk Smoov · 10-30-2007, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

After all the not-so-subliminal words Avery has had about Dirk...it's about time the big German responds in kind.

Come on now, you two know you are fishing right now. If Dirk threw Avery under the bus, I would not give Dirk any respect, because we all know you dont throw your coach under the bus in the public. If this was Dirk's attempt at throwing Avery under the bus, then Dirk is no different than Kobe, or AK for that matter.

I think this is a non-story at best

Silk Smoov · 10-30-2007, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

While some are quick to bash Avery, look at what he overcame last year. they brought in Anthony Johnson to help with some defense and leadership, and he was a totla bust. They brought in George and he was great until midseason, when he totally fizzled. Same with that big white stiff who's name has apparently been blocked from my mind.

AJ had to maneuver around all that, and ended up putting the weight back on the only guys who could deliver. He had to go back to Terry who delivered a lot of wins, but he was never a good defender, and in GS, was totally exposed, as was Stack, neither of whom was fast enough to defend the GS fast Break.

Was Avery outcoached? absolutly, but don't you think Nellie had a bit of an advantage, having spent six years with Dirk. His guys were totally drilled on how to defend the big German's every move. They matched up extremely well at every position, and no, starting Damp would not have made a dimes worth of difference. Yes Avery should have come up with a plan that worked. He didn't, and the Mavs lost.

Last year is over. Get over it. It took me until now to, and it still hurts. bad. so lets move on, shall we?

If anything, this is another attempt by Dirk to deflect the blame away from him. Dirk should not have said anything about the slogan, knowing how poor he played in the series. Why is it that Dirk gets all the praise when we are winning, getting the MVP awards, all the talk is about how well Dirk is playing, but as soon as he tanks the blame goes to Avery and Terry?

Dirk should just shut his mouth, and look in the mirror and go to the Wizard of OZ and ask for a heart

Instead of crawling in a cave all summer long, he should have been working on the mental aspect of the game along with his inside scoring. This team needs a tough minded Superstar on this team. We dont really have to get another Superstar, we just need a Superstar with a refuse to lose heart. We have the rest of the pieces to win it all. If Howard and Harris improves a little and Terry plays good off the bench, then we are set. We just Dirk to take charge in the playoffs. Maybe Dirk should NOT focus on winning the MVP, and just cruise along saving energy for the playoff run. Maybe Dirk put out too much trying to win the MVP award?

Bookit · 10-30-2007, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Maybe Dirk should NOT focus on winning the MVP, and just cruise along saving energy for the playoff run. Maybe Dirk put out too much trying to win the MVP award?

Huh? Dirk didn't even want to win the MVP.

mary · 10-30-2007, 08:32 AM

The slogan comment is Avery's...at least that's how the article is written.

Quote:

Dirk should just shut his mouth

Yeah..Dirk should probably ignore beatwriters and reporters and not talk to anyone. That's effing great advice..

Quote:

Maybe Dirk should NOT focus on winning the MVP, and just cruise along saving energy for the playoff run. Maybe Dirk put out too much trying to win the MVP award?

If Dirk was focused on the MVP last year, he would've taken a HELL of lot more shots. You're talking about one of the most efficient players in the game.

Edited to be nicer.

92bDad · 10-30-2007, 08:57 AM

Bottom line... the Mavs suffered the same fate as the Rockies this year and the Colts a few years ago...TIME OFF before the playoffs.

It happens rather often in sports and it's the nature of having your switch on all year and then you get a break...it's difficult to flip it back on.

2 years ago, we were clearly taken out by some official powers and I will never back down from that belief. Last year, we beat ourselves by winning so much so fast that we took a break the final week or so before the playoffs. The intensity was GONE by the time GS came to town, and we simply were unable to match that intensity...not to mentiion, those guys shot lights out from nearly anywhere and any angle on the court.

We ran into a massive buzz saw!!!

We are still a great team and this year, they are as talented as anyone in the league and they are clearly one of the front runners to win it all.

Obviously we can't control what happened two years ago, and if Stern has his officials get in the way, then so be it...we can't do anything about that...but last year was a building year and this team will be ready come the post-season. Anything short of Stern meddling, this team will win the title!!!

Silk Smoov · 10-30-2007, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookit

Huh? Dirk didn't even want to win the MVP.

No, he did not want it after his performance in the playoffs. Dont think Dirk did NOT want it. Anyway, I was just giving examples of Dirk's faults as well. I dont really think the MVP is all he cared about, but just saying we could look at that as well, since Dirk wanted to point out the slogan stuff.

dude1394 · 10-30-2007, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Come on now, you two know you are fishing right now. If Dirk threw Avery under the bus, I would not give Dirk any respect, because we all know you dont throw your coach under the bus in the public. If this was Dirk's attempt at throwing Avery under the bus, then Dirk is no different than Kobe, or AK for that matter.

I think this is a non-story at best

But it's okay to throw your players under the bus?? come on, coach's are not above criticism. To dirk's credit he probably wasn't even consciously pointing at Avery..but that's where the round came down imo.

dude1394 · 10-30-2007, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

If anything, this is another attempt by Dirk to deflect the blame away from him. Dirk should not have said anything about the slogan, knowing how poor he played in the series. Why is it that Dirk gets all the praise when we are winning, getting the MVP awards, all the talk is about how well Dirk is playing, but as soon as he tanks the blame goes to Avery and Terry?

Dirk should just shut his mouth, and look in the mirror and go to the Wizard of OZ and ask for a heart

Instead of crawling in a cave all summer long, he should have been working on the mental aspect of the game along with his inside scoring. This team needs a tough minded Superstar on this team. We dont really have to get another Superstar, we just need a Superstar with a refuse to lose heart. We have the rest of the pieces to win it all. If Howard and Harris improves a little and Terry plays good off the bench, then we are set. We just Dirk to take charge in the playoffs. Maybe Dirk should NOT focus on winning the MVP, and just cruise along saving energy for the playoff run. Maybe Dirk put out too much trying to win the MVP award?

Show me once, once where dirk has not shouldered every single loss on his shoulders. Ridiculous.

So you are saying that dirk wore himself out by trying to win the MVP? If so show me the increase shot attempts in the last month that he used to clinch it.

Silk Smoov · 10-30-2007, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

But it's okay to throw your players under the bus?? come on, coach's are not above criticism. To dirk's credit he probably wasn't even consciously pointing at Avery..but that's where the round came down imo.

Its never OK to throw a player/coach under the bus. Avery NEVER threw Dirk under the bus. Now, a coach throwing a team under the bus is good at times, but as long as it is directed towards the whole team. Just like Avery saying his team lacks leadership. That is the truth and should hit home with EVERY player on the team.

dude1394 · 10-30-2007, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Its never OK to throw a player/coach under the bus. Avery NEVER threw Dirk under the bus. Now, a coach throwing a team under the bus is good at times, but as long as it is directed towards the whole team. Just like Avery saying his team lacks leadership. That is the truth and should hit home with EVERY player on the team.

Well I disagree, avery has questioned dirk's personal leadership and personal intensity multiple times in public. He directly questioned it in the GSW series, directly.

Silk Smoov · 10-30-2007, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Show me once, once where dirk has not shouldered every single loss on his shoulders. Ridiculous.

So you are saying that dirk wore himself out by trying to win the MVP? If so show me the increase shot attempts in the last month that he used to clinch it.

Show me examples of the slogan causing the Mavs to lose? Show me examples of Avery overcoaching and causing the Mavs to lose in the playoffs?

As far as Dirk shouldering loses, ANYONE can say the right things to the media, but the real thing is to take loses and improve upon it.

I am showing you where your assertions about Avery are ridiculous as well. I could go on and on about Dirk as well. It seems that Dirk has been babied by the media to where the blame was deflected on Avery and Terry. When in fact as the Superstar you are the one that is suppose to step up and take the blame for the ENTIRE team, especially knowing you did not give it your all.

Silk Smoov · 10-30-2007, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Well I disagree, avery has questioned dirk's personal leadership and personal intensity multiple times in public. He directly questioned it in the GSW series, directly.

Show me the direct link to this??????

So, you are saying that if Avery says the team lacks the right leadership, then he is talking ONLY about Dirk? But, if Dirk talks about the slogan being a problem, it is NOT talking about Avery? How is this consistent?

mary · 10-30-2007, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Monday, October 29, 2007
Back again but not to "finish"

The Mavs broke every huddle and ended every practice last season with the rallying cry “Finish.” Not so this time around.

It’s back to the basics for Avery Johnson’s crew.

“We’re not going with any more trick slogans like ‘Finish’ or anything,” he said. “Just want to try to stay stronger a little bit more than we did last year and learn from both of our years.”

The 2006 season ended with four straight losses in the NBA Finals. They exited in the first round in May.

“I thought we were a lot stronger the year before,” Johnson said. “Last year I didn’t see it as much. Mentally, I thought we wore down a little bit and we just didn’t have it, not even in the playoffs, but the last 10 or 15 games. We’ll try to stay strong and get back to playing that Mavericks defense like we can.”

Reading...its a tough thing.

jthig32 · 10-30-2007, 09:21 AM

Dude's saying he IS talking about Avery with the slogan comment. Which he is.

Flacolaco · 10-30-2007, 09:22 AM

Thank you mary, that's what I was trying to say last night (post #12)

I am missing the part where Dirk bashed anything.....