new direction viewed as right move

[dirt_dobber]

Going new direction viewed as right move for Mavericks
08:37 PM CDT on Saturday, September 20, 2008
By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning New

In nine days, the Mavericks will convene for the 2008-09 season, and if you're wondering what they have learned since the commotion that engulfed the team four months ago, it can be summed up easily.

Change is good.

They are referring to new coach Rick Carlisle. But they also believe the transition from Avery Johnson will show an earlier change – trading for Jason Kidd – was a smart move.

The fresh, upbeat atmosphere will be a theme as the Mavericks prepare for training camp, which will be held at SMU's new training facility.

And one of the team's leaders insists the attitude has, indeed, changed.

"Automatically," Jason Terry said. "It's obvious, if we come back and play the way we played the last two years, the system wasn't bad, but now you've changed the roster. So we needed to go in a different direction."

Owner Mark Cuban and president of basketball operations Donnie Nelson made sure they did. Now it's up to Carlisle to make sure the excitement is embraced by the players.

Carlisle has three assistants who were not with the Mavericks last season: Terry Stotts, Dwane Casey and Tom Sterner. He also has Mario Elie, a holdover from Johnson's staff.

"It's going to be really important to keep the fresh approach," Casey said. "Avery did a great job of tightening the ship, and he and Nellie [previous coach Don Nelson] were so different. We want to keep it simple

"One thing that Rick wants to do now is give guys more freedom and run – and have a secondary break that doesn't have a lot of pre-ordained moves."

Their job will start with Kidd, the trade-deadline addition who was supposed to take the Mavericks deep into the Western Conference playoffs.

But Kidd and Johnson never meshed. Johnson's offense was a poor fit for Kidd's skills.

That has to change.

"You look at Jason Kidd, and we had him for two months," Terry said. "This is one of the greatest point guards to ever play the game. And two months is really cheating us.

"Now we're going to have him through training camp, and he's going to put his stamp on this team."

With relatively few additions other than the coach, is that enough to fuel optimism among the players?

"You can't go into the season if you feel like, 'Aw, we don't have a shot,' " Terry said. "You've got to stay positive. The city is ready. With what we've been through – all the core guys have been through a disappointing time – we're looking for some excitement and to go out and prove a point.

"We still have high expectations of ourselves, but nobody else does and that's the thing that keeps us motivated. We're out to prove a point."

It starts with proving it to Carlisle, who is opening camp with a clean slate. He has no biases when it comes to analyzing players. Starting spots – some of them, at least – are up for grabs. It will be up to the players to prove themselves. They know they will get a level playing field.

"The encouraging part is, we've got a new coach coming in and guys are going to try to impress him and play as hard as they possibly can, especially the way we've ended the last couple of years," Terry said. "I think everyone on this team has something to prove."
.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Getting rid of Avery was the right move? Stop the presses...

[jthig32]

"You can't go into the season if you feel like, 'Aw, we don't have a shot,' " Terry said. "You've got to stay positive. The city is ready. With what we've been through – all the core guys have been through a disappointing time – we're looking for some excitement and to go out and prove a point.

So he's positive because he has to be....not because there's any real reason to be. That's what I get out of that quote.

Ladies and gentlemen, you're '08-'09 Mavs!

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by jthig32

So he's positive because he has to be....not because there's any real reason to be. That's what I get out of that quote.

Ladies and gentlemen, you're '08-'09 Mavs!

No kidding. I really don't remember the last time I had less hope for the upcoming season.

[AxdemxO]

Go Mavs

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

No kidding. I really don't remember the last time I had less hope for the upcoming season.

I'm not ready to go that far, I just think it says something about othe overall tone of the fan base and maybe even the team right now.

[alby]

"One thing that Rick wants to do now is give guys more freedom and run – and have a secondary break that doesn't have a lot of pre-ordained moves."

you gotta hate Avery.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by jthig32

So he's positive because he has to be....not because there's any real reason to be. That's what I get out of that quote.

I count at least two separate reasons why he's happy, both of which are explicitly mentioned in the article. Just saying.

[Murphy3]

I quickly soured on AJ..during his first season as coach. I just couldn't see why it took the rest of y'all to do the same.

[fluid.forty.one]

Originally Posted by alby

you gotta hate Avery.

rep cause I hate avery as much as you do

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I'm not ready to go that far, I just think it says something about othe overall tone of the fan base and maybe even the team right now.

I'm afraid I am going that far. Other than 03-04, there really hasn't been one year until the in the Dirk era that I didn't think that the Mavs had a real shot. This year I really don't think they have a shot. I'm still hoping against hope that they'll make a big move that nobody saw coming. But it's not gonna happen. Anybody who could've really helped our chances this year has already been locked up by other teams.

[92bDad]

I attended a business conference recently and one of the topics was evaluating your company status and being real with where it is in order to increase the opportunity for long-term success.

In it you had 4 stages of a business:

1) Start-up...which you are only in once...the rest are in a circular format and it is key for the management to determine where they are in order to make the right decisions to get to the main phase called Success Sustainment
2)Success Sustainment - these are the good times, when the results are exceeding the goals/expectations and wants. - the biggest problem is that Management is trying to convince everyone that they are here all the time, often times being positive just to save their own skin. I fear that the Mavs are hear...kinda like the Ranger for many years, afraid to be real in order to create a PR view with fans that things are okay...but they fail to realize that the fans are rather astute to what is going on, and given reality, they will continue to support the team if they see the right kind of change taking place.
3) is Realignment - I see the Mavs realistically in this position - They still have a good product, however it is on the downside of the cycle and it is going to take some fairly drasting decision making from the Management on down. They still have a shot to do something special, but management needs to take a big picture look in order to bring success at the highest level back within the season or the next couple of seasons.
4) Turnaround - I don't believe this team is quite to this stage, but if they have a Non-Playoff season, it will be time to batten down the hatches and go into full blown re-build mode. When you reach this point...many folks in leadership are afraid to cut ties with the past...for example a Dirk trade or something on that level. Emotion run high, but the best leaders are able to make changes and essentially start building from scratch all over again and thus increase the odds that within 5 years a team is back at the top of the league.

The trick is that when an organization is in the realignment phase they have to make decisions to get them back in Success mode, and often times when things don't go well, they take to long to realize and admit that they are in turnaround mode.

We are an old team with high-salaries which put us way above the salary cap. Sure we have some of the best talent...but it is declining while the competition is younger, faster, sharper and cheaper...this is a recipe for disaster and I'm afraid the Mark Cuban and company are going to try and milk the fans for everything they can before truly committing to the long term success of tomorrow.

Hey Mark, thanks for the past few years, it's been a fun ride...but I and other fans have already paid for those seasons...we live in a what have you done for me today society and so far, it's aint lookin pretty.

[The Franchise]

Rick Carlisle is the same type of coach as Avery Johnson. Don't expect much of a change in anything except the teams attitude.

[sike]

This article needed to be written?

[Mavsfan4ever]

I will say this much it was an interesting read.

[craggmac]

I actually think that the coaching change and having Kidd here for training camp is going to be enough to bring the Mavs back. GO MAVS!

[AxdemxO]

Originally Posted by craggmac

I actually think that the coaching change and having Kidd here for training camp is going to be enough to bring the Mavs back. GO MAVS!

There we go...come on people...Go Mavs

[rmacomic]

Originally Posted by craggmac

I actually think that the coaching change and having Kidd here for training camp is going to be enough to bring the Mavs back. GO MAVS!

your sig makes the mavs look downright EPIC....I love it.

[craggmac]

Originally Posted by rmacomic

your sig makes the mavs look downright EPIC....I love it.

Thanks man!
It's the least I can do.

[rmacomic]

I can't wait for the season.

1 I am a Cubs fan and as long as I have been distracted from them this year they are kicking ass. (superstitious baseball fan, that's new) So some Mavs news will help me in that vein.

2 The way this forum has devolved into a political free for all, just booooores me.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by The Franchise

Rick Carlisle is the same type of coach as Avery Johnson. Don't expect much of a change in anything except the teams attitude.

Ridiculous. I'm sick of people comparing the two coaches because they both emphasize defense. Avery's so-called defensive mindset wasn't his problem. The problem was that he was just plain incompetent. They are NOT the same type of coach. Carlisle is a capable coach. Avery is a shitty one.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by craggmac

I actually think that the coaching change and having Kidd here for training camp is going to be enough to bring the Mavs back. GO MAVS!

Meanwhile who's our starting shooting guard? Terry? Ugh...

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by craggmac

Thanks man!
It's the least I can do.

It's awesome craggmac...nice job!

[AxdemxO]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Meanwhile who's our starting shooting guard? Terry? Ugh...

I dotn have a problem with that one bit. If we find someone else or one of the young guys Green/Wright steps up then fine. If not then I am willing to go to war with Jet..because as much as people get on him he can still light it up and help carry this team.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

I dotn have a problem with that one bit. If we find someone else or one of the young guys Green/Wright steps up then fine. If not then I am willing to go to war with Jet..because as much as people get on him he can still light it up and help carry this team.

And Terry is still as inconsistent as anyone else on this team, not to mention he's undersized, weak on defense, and can't get to the rim. I love Jet, but he's a liability at starting 2.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

And Terry is still as inconsistent as anyone else on this team, not to mention he's undersized, weak on defense, and can't get to the rim. I love Jet, but he's a liability at starting 2.

The 06/07 Mavs were +12 per 48 with JET at the 2, and last year's Mavs were +10.6 per 48. His PER at SG has been 20.2 and 20.4 in those seasons according to 82games, and his opponent's PER at the position was at 14.5 and 16.3, respectively. That's far from a liability.

Seriously, I doubt there's anyone who's ignorant of the reasons he's not a perfect basketball player, but what's with the determination to completely ignore the good things he brings to the table?

[alby]

best about this thread is that there's a new signature to look at.

[Caseman]

Originally Posted by alby

best about this thread is that there's a new signature to look at.

I was actually thinking the same thing. Cragg has got a HD signature going on.

Oh, and go Stars.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

The 06/07 Mavs were +12 per 48 with JET at the 2, and last year's Mavs were +10.6 per 48. His PER at SG has been 20.2 and 20.4 in those seasons according to 82games, and his opponent's PER at the position was at 14.5 and 16.3, respectively. That's far from a liability.

Seriously, I doubt there's anyone who's ignorant of the reasons he's not a perfect basketball player, but what's with the determination to completely ignore the good things he brings to the table?

I'm not at all ignoring the good things he brings to the table, let alone am I "determined" to do so. But I've felt for years now that the 2 was our weakest position. The fact is we don't have one player on this team who can get to the rim consistently. That's typically something you absolutely must have from at least one of your guards.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I'm not at all ignoring the good things he brings to the table, let alone am I "determined" to do so. But I've felt for years now that the 2 was our weakest position. The fact is we don't have one player on this team who can get to the rim consistently. That's typically something you absolutely must have from at least one of your guards.

A weakness in a player's game does not, of that player, a liability make. It's a short jump from making that kind of generalization about JET to the argument that Dirk's a liability because he's doesn't have a better post-up game. Critics of Dirk are wrong to come to that conclusion and the logic isn't any more sound when it comes to Terry.

I will say, though, that this team does have at least one established player on the wing who I think is good at getting to the rim. The team just needs to get him to start featuring that part of his game again.

Whether this team can be truly successful on offense, though, is really going to come down to how crisp their off-the-ball movement and passing is. Dallas has at least four guys who can get a high-percentage shot off if they can catch the ball with some space, and another one who's very good at getting the ball to guys so that they have some space. They just need another 3 or 4 guys to show up and not be actual liabilities and they'll have a shot.

[AxdemxO]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

The 06/07 Mavs were +12 per 48 with JET at the 2, and last year's Mavs were +10.6 per 48. His PER at SG has been 20.2 and 20.4 in those seasons according to 82games, and his opponent's PER at the position was at 14.5 and 16.3, respectively. That's far from a liability.

Seriously, I doubt there's anyone who's ignorant of the reasons he's not a perfect basketball player, but what's with the determination to completely ignore the good things he brings to the table?

what he said..

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

A weakness in a player's game does not, of that player, a liability make. It's a short jump from making that kind of generalization about JET to the argument that Dirk's a liability because he's doesn't have a better post-up game. Critics of Dirk are wrong to come to that conclusion and the logic isn't any more sound when it comes to Terry.

I will say, though, that this team does have at least one established player on the wing who I think is good at getting to the rim. The team just needs to get him to start featuring that part of his game again.

Whether this team can be truly successful on offense, though, is really going to come down to how crisp their off-the-ball movement and passing is. Dallas has at least four guys who can get a high-percentage shot off if they can catch the ball with some space, and another one who's very good at getting the ball to guys so that they have some space. They just need another 3 or 4 guys to show up and not be actual liabilities and they'll have a shot.

It's the job of the coach to put players in areas of strength to succeed. Looking back on the first Nets team with Kidd. I mean, Kidd-Kittles, KVH, KMart, Todd MacCulloch won't scare many teams, if any at all, but when they were together in the right system, watch out. None of the 4 players outside of Kidd needs the rock to be successful, Kidd can hit them quick and given the system, they were in position to succeed, whether it be an open 3 pointer for KVH or a 15 footer for Kittles, or an alley oop to KMart, the system suited them. I think given the system and the ability of the group to mesh quickly, especially the top 7-8 guys in the rotation will tell us how deep we will get.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

A weakness in a player's game does not, of that player, a liability make. It's a short jump from making that kind of generalization about JET to the argument that Dirk's a liability because he's doesn't have a better post-up game. Critics of Dirk are wrong to come to that conclusion and the logic isn't any more sound when it comes to Terry.

I think you're just mincing words here. Perhaps "liability" was a bit harsh. What I mean is, I don't like our chances when we have a streaky shooter under 6'3 at our starting 2. Then I again I also don't like having a center who can't score, and a point guard who can't get into the paint or shoot, so what do I know? I'm also not sure the Dirk/Terry comparison is valid. Dirk isn't playing out of position most of the time. His PER numbers while playing at center probably aren't that bad, but if he were our starting center, I would call that a liablity.

I will say, though, that this team does have at least one established player on the wing who I think is good at getting to the rim. The team just needs to get him to start featuring that part of his game again.

I assume you mean Howard? I'll believe it when I see it.

Whether this team can be truly successful on offense, though, is really going to come down to how crisp their off-the-ball movement and passing is. Dallas has at least four guys who can get a high-percentage shot off if they can catch the ball with some space, and another one who's very good at getting the ball to guys so that they have some space. They just need another 3 or 4 guys to show up and not be actual liabilities and they'll have a shot.

If Carlisle can get the absolute best out of these guys every night, maybe I'll feel better. But the bottom line is there are several teams in the western conference that are much better put together than this team is. I firmly believe the Western conference has passed us by.

[AxdemxO]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I think you're just mincing words here. Perhaps "liability" was a bit harsh. What I mean is, I don't like our chances when we have a streaky shooter under 6'3 at our starting 2. Then I again I also don't like having a center who can't score, and a point guard who can't get into the paint or shoot, so what do I know?



I assume you mean Howard? I'll believe it when I see it.



If Carlisle can get the absolute best out of these guys every night, maybe I'll feel better. But the bottom line is there are several teams in the western conference that our much better put together than this team is.

Like who?? The only team that doesnt have questions surrounding it now is the Lakers and maybe Hornets. I was gonna put Utah here as well, but they starting to have some questions as well..soo who are these teams. Everything is such un unknown, and I can see us finishing anywhere between 2 and 7..well wait and see

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Like who?? The only team that doesnt have questions surrounding it now is the Lakers and maybe Hornets. I was gonna put Utah here as well, but they starting to have some questions as well..soo who are these teams. Everything is such un unknown, and I can see us finishing anywhere between 2 and 7..well wait and see

Exactly, the Lakers and Hornets... Yes, Utah as well. Three teams isn't enough? Good lord, did we not finish seventh last year? Yes, everything is unknown. You say that like it's a good thing. Maybe it is. Frankly, I liked it better when I knew, absolutely 100% knew that the Mavs were one of the two or three best teams in the league. Now I think we're middle of the pack at best.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I think you're just mincing words here. Perhaps "liability" was a bit harsh. What I mean is, I don't like our chances when we have a streaky shooter under 6'3 at our starting 2.

Well, I'd like our chances better if we had Redd as our starting 2, but you make due with what you've got, and what we've got in JET is a guy who's had quite a bit of success playing SG in the NBA. I should point out as we're talking about this, though, that my money's on JET coming off the bench.

I'm also not sure the Dirk/Terry comparison is valid. Dirk isn't playing out of position most of the time. His PER numbers while playing at center probably aren't that bad, but if he were our starting center, I would call that a liablity.

I'll stand by the analogy (Dirk's kind of out-of-position no matter where you play him - dude's just unique), though obviously there are differences in the specifics. As for Dirk at center, though, whether or not that works depends on why you're playing him there. If you're sitting an effective center in favor of Croshere or a very inexperienced Brandon Bass it's hard to justify. For a healthy KVH or Antawn Jamison it's a different story. But that's probably taking us too far afield of the thread topic.

I assume you mean Howard? I'll believe it when I see it.

Yes. And to some extent I feel the same way. Just saying that the team isn't quite so devoid of take-it-to-the-rim talent as you were arguing.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Well, I'd like our chances better if we had Redd as our starting 2, but you make due with what you've got, and what we've got in JET is a guy who's had quite a bit of success playing SG in the NBA. I should point out as we're talking about this, though, that my money's on JET coming off the bench.

You think Stack's going to start, but Jet will get "starter minutes"?

If not who do you see starting?

[SMC0007]

Starting Stack is a horrible idea, Regardless of the mins he plays.

[grndmstr_c]

I think the odds are against Stack. There's been too much evidence of decline in his game for too long, and his inability to stay healthy is a problem when you're talking about featuring a guy in a major role like starter (or sixth man).

As for JET, yes, I think it makes almost too much sense for him to get starter minutes off the bench...if you can find a capable fill in at the starting spot. To begin off with, he's good enough to deserve 30+ minutes on this team. Beyond that, though, in a bench role he gives you the secondary offensive option coming in at the 6-minute mark that you like to have available, and he can play either with or behind Kidd, so he's a first choice in most matchups for two positions, which means the rotations go more smoothly if JET's a bench player. I think that's worth something for helping everybody find a way to contribute. And then there's the bullet you dodge by not having JET at starting 2, namely those 2 or 3 matchups that present extra problems for a small backcourt.

As to who will get that starting spot, I don't really know. I'm making my guess about JET more on the basis of the fact that the Mavs have a number of guys who at least have a shot at giving the team enough of what it needs at that fifth starting spot to justify bringing JET off the bench. That is, I don't see any one guy who's a favorite, but add up the odds on each and I think they total slightly better than 1:1 in favor of somebody other than JET getting the nod.

[Kidd Karma]

Terry's going to need to relieve Kidd about 16 minutes a night. I think allowing George to play 3 alongside Terry/Stack would help in balancing the offensive side. If all things go perfectly, Green/Wright should start alongside Kidd, being on the receiving end of Kidd passes on the break.