Josh Doesn't Care Anymore

[darkwitzki]

What's with Josh right now? Based on the threads i've read, the bandwagon is getting longer about JHo losing it, he seems lost out there. Seldom he passed to an open team mate, errr maybe Carlisle does not have plays built for him.. Is he jealous of Dirk? Is it enough to convince FO to push a trade?

[Willstar]

he just forget that he should care.

[alby]

He may either be too high or too f'ing dumb to care.

[Itachi]

Hopefully he wasn't high...

[mac222b]

I'm sure the FO has caught on and is quietly shopping him. We all noticed(Josh included)how well they played w/out him. On some level he's got to realize he's odd man out. His blase attitude and lack of hustle coupled w/ this latest temper tantrum could be a prelude to bigger things. Worse things. We need to move him before it reaches that point and he loses anymore value. Any trade that would bring back a quality starter at any position other than PF should be done yesterday. Ideally Kaman, Redd, Wallace, Marion, VC... but S-Jax and a young prospect(not named Marcus Williams)would work. Nocioni and Tyrus Thomas or Sefolosha. All of these trades(except for Marion)would limit our flexibility in '10 but we can't afford to wait that long anyway. And even if we do take on another contract we should still be under w/ only Dirk, Diop, Jet and whoever we get for J-ho. His contract w/ '10 option should make him easier to move. That he no longer does most of the things which made him valuable makes it harder- but if he did i guess we wouldn't be talking about trading him!

[Zki41]

Better trade him before its too late (not that it isn't already).

[dude1394]

So I just re-watched the josh tossing. I didn't see any bench player react a lot to it. It was more like a "what do you expect...it's josh being an idiot again, thanks a lot". Hmmm.....

So someone reminded me that we could have had Gasol for Josh....If so a shockingly bad decision by the front-office.

[alby]

I'm sure Josh Howard understands that he has lost his team and his teammates.

[mac222b]

Checked the trade machine and S-jax/Azubuike for J-ho works as does Nocioni and Hughes for J-ho/Stack. Bulls would do this in a heartbeat. Not sure we want Nocioni's contract. Yuck. Hughes' comes off in '10. Also Salmons and Mikki Moore(who played well with Kidd) works.
None is ideal but getting any of the big names available is a long shot. Except for Jackson's contract and age i kind of like the GS deal. Not sure they or Sacramento would even do it. That's how far Josh's stock has fallen. Salmons and Azubuike, better values both, may be more valuable to their teams than Josh at this point...

[MaVs 41 BaLler]

Lol and too think someone made a "Dirk doesn't care anymore" thread.

[fluid.forty.one]

Its obvious that we play better without him. I would be fine with trading him for someone who is less talented (deep down josh is very talented) but has more heart.

I've noticed this scenario more than once since he's been back. Josh has the ball and dirk is 5 feet away, wide open and clapping for the ball. Josh looks at him and walks/dribbles the other way and dirk kinda shakes his head and throws his hands up like "there goes josh being josh". That kinda crap added with josh's unemotional flagrant/ejection shows just how disconnected he really is.

[Sportstudi]

Originally Posted by alby

I'm sure Josh Howard understands that he has lost his team and his teammates.

But that's his own fault

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by dude1394

So I just re-watched the josh tossing. I didn't see any bench player react a lot to it. It was more like a "what do you expect...it's josh being an idiot again, thanks a lot". Hmmm.....

So someone reminded me that we could have had Gasol for Josh....If so a shockingly bad decision by the front-office.

We could have also probably had Artest if we kept Harris....

The FO is basically bi-polar in how they work. They are near-incredible when it comes to finding young talent for cheap. Whether drafting, finding undrafted players or even trades, they seem to do very well in this aspect.

As far as medium-major trades and free agency go in the past four years.....well it speaks for itself. Even excluding the Kidd trade.

[Janett_Reno]

The scarry thing with Howard is it could be another Harris on talent. If Josh Howard wants to be one of the better players in all the nba on offense and defense he can be and will but only if he want's to and will. When he plays like Scottie Pippen and plays smart he is very good and not many players in the nba can play both offense and defense.

Something has happened to him or in his life and he can care less about the Mavs or basketball it seems. So he turns it on and other times is now lazy and has decided he wants to be Ron Artest and Rasheed Wallace. He want's to get attention and bring it on himself. In bad way's. Something has happened in his life to bring this on and in return, no he doesn't care anymore. It is ashame to be this talented and not care. Harris does care and want's to do good.

The only time i see Howard now get motivated is if a player like Roy shows up and uses Howard on a play, like beat him or dunk on him, then it lights a fire under Howard that the very next time he will make a point to either dunk on Roy or if something bad happens, he will start to push and want to fight or get physical. Most of the time he will let his talent take over and just go down and dunk on the person.

What is so sad is it looks like we must get rid of Howard because if we do not he will lose stock everyday because he has made his mind up, he is the knew Artest on throwing fits and wanting to show, i am unhappy and i am going to cause disruption. Again i ask why? What has caused this or is he doing this to say, i want out of Dallas. So i think he is gone and it will hurt our defense unless we get talent back and we should. We should get very good for him and when he is gone, he can turn into a Harris talent and be very good or he can decide he want's to get in more and more trouble and even try to get himself kicked out of the nba. His choice.

It will be very interesting if we get a Ak-47 type player for him, G Wallace or who but i feel we get good talent in return. Howard has had many chances but he is getting worse and trying to say in his actions, i don't care, do something to me.

[LonghornDub]

The only reason Howard has lasted on the team this long is because he is a phenomenal talent. The guy has the physical potential to be a perennial all-star, and I'm not talking about some technicality like when he made it in 2007.

That said, it's really a damn shame that he plays with so little heart (and so little brain) these days. Every now and then, I'll fire up some of my old '06 playoff videos for a few minutes and remind myself about what he used to play like before Avery decided that he needed to be turned into "scoring option B" for this team.

[BGMaverick9]

It seems like something happened (time unknown) where he felt like he was taken down a severe notch in the eyes of the organization. Something along the lines where his opinion felt less important or he didn't get the attention he felt like he deserved. During the later stages of the summer it sounded like he had to be coddled very heavily to keep him on the reservation.

This is why I felt all along that try to get the best you can in return of Howard, even if it's a "lateral move" on a basketball viewpoint...if the personality and IQ and style are better, that's where it will pay off more dividends.

[alby]

Originally Posted by mac222b

Checked the trade machine and S-jax/Azubuike for J-ho works as does Nocioni and Hughes for J-ho/Stack. Bulls would do this in a heartbeat. Not sure we want Nocioni's contract. Yuck. Hughes' comes off in '10. Also Salmons and Mikki Moore(who played well with Kidd) works.
None is ideal but getting any of the big names available is a long shot. Except for Jackson's contract and age i kind of like the GS deal. Not sure they or Sacramento would even do it. That's how far Josh's stock has fallen. Salmons and Azubuike, better values both, may be more valuable to their teams than Josh at this point...

all those scenarios are unlikely IMHO, Howard no longer has that kind of stock.

[Tokey41]

AK-47 would still be a great fit for this team (if Josh were dealt). In fact he would be a great fit on any team with Dirk on it. It would definitely solve the post presence problem. I'm convinced that all the guy needs it space to operate... and since he would be our only post presence he would have that here.

Now that I think about it, if we weren't able to move Diop or Damp in a trade then trying to get AK would make more sense than a trade for Kaman. Whatever it is we do it's clear that Josh needs to go, even if he gets rejuvenated by a change of scenario and we look like idiots... maybe we'll get fair value.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by alby

all those scenarios are unlikely IMHO, Howard no longer has that kind of stock.

I thought about this on the way home (shows how much I think about the Mavs...)
We lay the hammer down pretty hard on these guys because we see them and read about them day in and day out. Now I know GMs around the league do their due diligence (sometimes not), but I don't think they would see Josh in the same light as well do, obviously because they don't have as much perspective as we do. The point is, I think his stock is down, but it's not rock bottom. I still think people would take him with some hesitation but it's not dollar for dollar. I doubt it'll ever get to that point...so we might as well get while the getting is "decent." He isn't going to pull himself up.

[alby]

The worst thing about the latest Josh Howard episode is that he'll probably have a game where he'll score 30 tonight and he'll trick the FO and so many people on this board that he's back again.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by alby

The worst thing about the latest Josh Howard episode is that he'll probably have a game where he'll score 30 tonight and he'll trick the FO and so many people on this board that he's back again.

Not everyone...
The ship has sailed for me long, long ago...

[alby]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I thought about this on the way home (shows how much I think about the Mavs...)
We lay the hammer down pretty hard on these guys because we see them and read about them day in and day out. Now I know GMs around the league do their due diligence (sometimes not), but I don't think they would see Josh in the same light as well do, obviously because they don't have as much perspective as we do. The point is, I think his stock is down, but it's not rock bottom. I still think people would take him with some hesitation but it's not dollar for dollar. I doubt it'll ever get to that point...so we might as well get while the getting is "decent." He isn't going to pull himself up.

Without a doubt, Josh Howard is viewed at a much inferior light around the league than the one the Mavs' FO is currently seeing.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by alby

Without a doubt, Josh Howard is viewed at a much inferior light around the league than the one the Mavs' FO is currently seeing.

I agree with that, and it disappoints me highly that they've held him up so high and mighty and held firm with not letting him go to this point. But I don't think he's useless to another team. I would clearly take a "lateral move" at this point as long as the guy coming back to us "gets it."
I'll take it and run.

[horse900703]

that was stupid~

[esoteric562]

i still believe in josh....... but we do need a good center....

[Folterkammer]

i am pretty sure that if we deal josh he will become another steve or another devin..
seems like every ex mavs player gets really motivated after getting traded or not getting signed and becomes more mature..

[fluid.forty.one]

If Howard is traded to a team where he's a number one option, the change of scenery and roles could very well push him to be the player we all know he can. Because of this, a lot of people will say it was a dumb move after the fact because he could very well put up crazy numbers.. but we can't forget that he hasn't, and probably wont, here... so it doesn't make the trade bad.

[Murphy3]

Wow... I think you've gone a bit overboard there fluidfortyone.

[fluid.forty.one]

??

It's the same, except hopefully not as extreme, as the DH trade. Harris is putting up crazy numbers now because he has a situation that fits him better. His current play doesn't mean that he would have performed the same this year had we kept him.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by alby

The worst thing about the latest Josh Howard episode is that he'll probably have a game where he'll score 30 tonight and he'll trick the FO and so many people on this board that he's back again.

Well regardless of how much a lot of people hate him, I'd rather him do that then not do that.

We're stuck with Howard for now so it's best that he plays at his highest level possible.

Carlisle said as much that he needs Howard to be that versatile guy, but it's not happening. You really just can't have any guy on the team who blatently won't pass it to your best player. No front office loyalty will surpass that because Dirk is the man. If Dirk wants Howard gone, he's gone.

[fluid.forty.one]

If I were Dirk, I would want him gone... but I can't see Dirk requesting that. I *could* see him giving a thumbs up to a proposed trade, but not coming out and saying "I want Howard gone".

[DubOverdose]

Originally Posted by alby

all those scenarios are unlikely IMHO, Howard no longer has that kind of stock.

Haha, Howard is worth more than all of those players mentioned, easily. His value has dropped, but he's worth far more than guys that will sit around as FAs when their contracts are up.

[jamyoa]

Don't worry my friends, Josh will be traded soon! I said Avery would be fired at the end of 2008 season, and he was. I smell a poss. trade Shawn Marion for Howard coming. I'm usually pretty good at these guessing trades. Did u know that the Mavs. could've traded J. Howard for Pau Gasol? The Mavs. turned that dwn. Mark should know that if u ever have the chance to get a superstar for a star, Then u go for it. Look what Pau has done for the Lakers. What can u expect? Mark still says that the Kidd for Howard trade was for the best, and that he would do it again. Yeah right!
If I was the G.M. I would have traded Howard for Pau in a heartbeat. Can u just imagine having this lineup-Nowitzki, Dampier, P.Gasol, Harris,Terry. The Mavs would be a top 3 team. No ? about it. Maybe it's time to replace Donnie Nelson, and Mark C. needs to quit trading all these good pt. guards. Let's see, I guess when J.J.B. starts playing as good as Harris He too will be traded.

[Sportstudi]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

If I were Dirk, I would want him gone... but I can't see Dirk requesting that. I *could* see him giving a thumbs up to a proposed trade, but not coming out and saying "I want Howard gone".

I agree. Dirk is not that kind of a person. He's a low-key and humble guy, but nobody who would request the FO to move one player away.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by fluid.forty.one

If Howard is traded to a team where he's a number one option, the change of scenery and roles could very well push him to be the player we all know he can. Because of this, a lot of people will say it was a dumb move after the fact because he could very well put up crazy numbers.. but we can't forget that he hasn't, and probably wont, here... so it doesn't make the trade bad.

I figure this is the case as long as he goes to a terrible team with no real options. Where he is the "Dirk" of the team. A situation like that or one where he doesn't have to defer to anyone and the offense runs through him.

It wouldn't necessarily push him, but it'd just give him the automatic green light. "Hey we stink, and you're the best way to get us competitive in a game or get us points, so go." The numbers would be bloated for him and it would cast him in a great light, and make us look bad. But honestly, we know what the situation is.

[vRookie]

Every single player on the Mavs is unselfish except for JHo. So when he plays, he sticks out like a sore thumb. Even if he returns to his "normal" play, he would be just putting up good individual numbers but team wouldn't be any better. I say, unless he can change his play style and be a team player, he should be traded for a player who doesnt have IQ of a ten year old. Lets hope the FO see it that way

[alby]

Originally Posted by DubOverdose

Haha, Howard is worth more than all of those players mentioned, easily. His value has dropped, but he's worth far more than guys that will sit around as FAs when their contracts are up.

Jackson/Azui, Nocioni/Hughes, and Moore/Salmons are all upgrades over Howard.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I'm really worried about the playoffs because that is where his selfish play will really stick out. We're not going fo go far with him just playing his own game.

[ty]

Josh is done.

[MaVs 41 BaLler]

Damn.....

I wanted Artest.