What Cuban Said About Avery... - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

sike · 05-14-2008, 04:20 PM

Mark Cuban in the Post Welcome Carlisle interview with The Hardline when asked by Rhines...

Q: What do you say to the people who say you said you just hired Avery 2.0

A: They don't know him then...I didn't hear him (Rick) use the word "Me" the entire time....

This says so much about how Avery was viewed by Mark. Completely "Me" centered.

While I think Avery is probably a good man, husband, father, friend, etc....I do think he tended to point the arrow at himself...and that usually comes from insecurity/ego.

I can't believe Mark said this, but it reveals volumes.

Mavsfan4ever · 05-14-2008, 04:30 PM

I knew things went to smoothly when Avery was let go.

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-14-2008, 04:54 PM

Once (if) Avery is hired, then Cuban will be absolved of his contract and then can fire back a little more. As for now, he has to be careful and just take what the cockroach has to say.

Caseman · 05-14-2008, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Once (if) Avery is hired, then Cuban will be absolved of his contract and then can fire back a little more. As for now, he has to be careful and just take what the cockroach has to say.

Exactly. Cuban helps him by pumping his resume and downplaying his flaws, while Avery is to get hired as hella fast as he can. I just feel sorry for any team that falls for it.

purplefrog · 05-14-2008, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

Exactly. Cuban helps him by pumping his resume and downplaying his flaws, while Avery is to get hired as hella fast as he can. I just feel sorry for any team that falls for it.

I don't think Avery finds a job this year. Give it some time and then GMs/owners will be lured by his on-paper list of accomplishments.

sike · 05-14-2008, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseman

Exactly. Cuban helps him by pumping his resume and downplaying his flaws, while Avery is to get hired as hella fast as he can. I just feel sorry for any team that falls for it.

He could be very successful building a young team that is ready to be molded to the image of its coach...but I think he will have a career of burning out teams after a few years...either that or he will mature/grow in regards to his coaching style...which do not believe is unreasonable to expect from such a young coach.

Usually Lurkin · 05-14-2008, 05:46 PM

why is every thread an avery bash? Wasn't Cuban in on whatever pact they had not to say bad things about each other?

ty · 05-14-2008, 05:49 PM

Unless your GM is Tim Legler, you're probably not gonna hire Avery as your head coach.

sike · 05-14-2008, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

why is every thread an avery bash? Wasn't Cuban in on whatever pact they had not to say bad things about each other?

this thread is not an "Avery bash"...this is just reporting something very worthwhile that was surprisingly said on air.

I am shocked that Cuban would respond so honestly if not brashly and unprofessionally.

But at least we know how he feels.

Usually Lurkin · 05-14-2008, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

this thread is not an "Avery bash"...this is just reporting something very worthwhile that was surprisingly said on air.

I am shocked that Cuban would respond so honestly if not brashly and unprofessionally.

But at least we know how he feels.

By the 2nd reply, we were wading deep into the only thought we are able to cough up as a collection of Mavs fans. By the 8th, 50% of the posts were non-substantial Avery digs. Are we Mavtalk?

LonghornDub · 05-14-2008, 06:06 PM

It speaks volumes, and I love me some Cubes, but I wish he hadn't said that. I'd just as soon Cuban take the higher road and let Avery be his egotistical self on his own.

sike · 05-14-2008, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

By the 2nd reply, we were wading deep into the only thought we are able to cough up as a collection of Mavs fans. By the 8th, 50% of the posts were non-substantial Avery digs. Are we Mavtalk?

by the time of your post (#7) there was only one post that had anything negative to say about Avery. The one where he is called a "cockroach" is the only blatantly negative thing said about Avery...the ONLY thing that could be considered any kind of "bashing" as you claimed.

No reason to feel the need to continue arguing a false claim. This thread is not "Avery bashing".

it is Avery/Cuban-centric...

sike · 05-14-2008, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

I wish he hadn't said that.

me too...but it IS very revealing none the less.

Caseman · 05-14-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

why is every thread an avery bash? Wasn't Cuban in on whatever pact they had not to say bad things about each other?

I was neutral on Avery until I heard his post-coach comments.

horse900703 · 05-14-2008, 06:49 PM

i thought he will say: AJ is a great coach or what ever~

ghazi · 05-14-2008, 06:50 PM

dammit horse.

horse900703 · 05-14-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghazi

dammit horse.

dammit ghazi.

mavsgirl4134 · 05-14-2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horse900703

i thought he will say: AJ is a great coach or what ever~

HAHA.. thanks for making me laugh. You da bomb!~~~~

Usually Lurkin · 05-14-2008, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sike

this thread is not an "Avery bash"...this is just reporting something very worthwhile that was surprisingly said on air.

I am shocked that Cuban would respond so honestly if not brashly and unprofessionally.

But at least we know how he feels.

cockroach; feel sorry for any team that falls for it; avery won't get hired (teams have to be lured); nobody but Legler would hire Avery.

All avery bashing that would fit just as well, if not better, in any number of avery bashing threads on the first page. Folks like to jump on 92Dad (or whatever his name is) for suggesting things like having one big Mavs thread, but if you can transplant half the posts in any given thread into almost any other thread without disrupting the topic, then you might as well collapse them all into a single thread.

You're turning a blind eye if you think this board hasn't gone overboard with the anti-avery stuff lately.

Thespiralgoeson · 05-14-2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

cockroach; feel sorry for any team that falls for it; avery won't get hired (teams have to be lured); nobody but Legler would hire Avery.

All avery bashing that would fit just as well, if not better, in any number of avery bashing threads on the first page. Folks like to jump on 92Dad (or whatever his name is) for suggesting things like having one big Mavs thread, but if you can transplant half the posts in any given thread into almost any other thread without disrupting the topic, then you might as well collapse them all into a single thread.

You're turning a blind eye if you think this board hasn't gone overboard with the anti-avery stuff lately.

No, I don't think it's gone overboard, because the fact is, the team just lost in the first round for the second straight year, and the future doesn't look bright. That, IMHO, is more Avery's fault than anyone else's. The only reason the team isn't in complete disarray is because they were so quick to bring in Carlisle.

The fact that Avery sucks really can't be over-stated. I think once we start making trades and looking towards next season, you'll see the Avery-hate subside. But right now, it's just too fresh in our minds. I mean, the guy was fired, what, two weeks ago? Give it time. We're still angry.

endrity · 05-14-2008, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

No, I don't it's gone overboard, because the fact is, the team just lost in the first round for the second straight year, and the future doesn't look bright. That, IMHO, is more Avery's fault than anyone else's. The only reason the team isn't in complete disarray is because they were so quick to bring in Carlisle.

The fact that Avery sucks really can't be over-stated. I think once we start making trades and looking towards next season, you'll see the Avery-hate subside. But right now, it's just too fresh in our minds. I mean, the guy was fired, what, two weeks ago? Give it time. We're still angry.

+1

People in here were really really cautios on jumping on Avery, but the fact remains that he might have set this franchise back in a way that two years ago it was unthinkable. I don't think that this critisicm of him is not merited. And he hasn't said anything since getting fired that makes me think that.

Never has this board reacted so angrily to one guy in specific. There has to be a reason.

Robillion · 05-14-2008, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horse900703

dammit ghazi.

I cant believe it.. I just +repped horse.
God forgive me.
I laughed though

Thespiralgoeson · 05-14-2008, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endrity

+1

People in here were really really cautios on jumping on Avery, but the fact remains that he might have set this franchise back in a way that two years ago it was unthinkable. I don't think that this critisicm of him is not merited. And he hasn't said anything since getting fired that makes me think that.

Never has this board reacted so angrily to one guy in specific. There has to be a reason.

Exactly. You can debate what was his fault and what wasn't. But I personally am of the opinion that the Mavs had both the 06 and 07 championships in the bag, and blew both opportunities because of horrible coaching. I don't know that I'll ever stop ranting about that.

dirno2000 · 05-14-2008, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Never has this board reacted so angrily to one guy in specific. There has to be a reason.

Convenience? I mean in one fell swoop we got rid of the thing that was responsible for roughly 90% of our problems. It doesn't get much cleaner than that.

There's also the fact that he has a big ego. That rubs a lot of people the wrong way but has nothing to do with his ability to coach basketball.

rmacomic · 05-14-2008, 10:21 PM

I honestly gave up on Avery after last years playoffs.
I mean you take a team that won 67 games tell the MVP to play a different position and then throw the guy under the bus for not succeeding at your game plan (one that went completely against what worked for you), and see how well you are received.

BGMaverick9 · 05-14-2008, 10:22 PM

If there is a gag order, then yeah both sides need to be quiet. But if there isn't one, it would be NICE to turn the other cheek and just shrug off the comments, but he's not required to.

nikeball · 05-14-2008, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by horse900703

dammit ghazi.

MavsX = haX?

chumdawg · 05-14-2008, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

Exactly. You can debate what was his fault and what wasn't. But I personally am of the opinion that the Mavs had both the 06 and 07 championships in the bag, and blew both opportunities because of horrible coaching. I don't know that I'll ever stop ranting about that.

endrity's point is spot-on, in that when we look back on the Avery era we will realize how he indeed "set this franchise back" with his crazy brand of cracker-jack coaching.

You mention '06 and '07 as prime years. I stand by my assertion that '05 was every bit the opportunity that either of those years were. Yet we had Avery manufacturing a way to get behind 0-2 to Houston, literally falling on his ass during the game, losing his composure in press conferences, and completely losing control of himself and his team in crunch time against Phoenix. Sigh.

foglemann · 05-14-2008, 10:29 PM

Avery is the suck!!!

chumdawg · 05-14-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Convenience? I mean in one fell swoop we got rid of the thing that was responsible for roughly 90% of our problems. It doesn't get much cleaner than that.

There's also the fact that he has a big ego. That rubs a lot of people the wrong way but has nothing to do with his ability to coach basketball.

If you want a microcosm of Avery's tenure here, you need look no further than the San Antonio game when he benched Kidd in the last minute. That wasn't one of those deals where you find a prime opportunity to grind an ax. Rather, that was the kind of deal that slaps you upside the head with its message, whether you liked Avery or not. There's no getting away from something like that.

What it did was reveal to everyone (who didn't already know it) that in Avery's mind he was responsible for not just 90% of our play, as you suggest, but fully 100%. In the position he was in, that kind of attitude is very definitely going to manifest itself in the entire team play.

He wasn't responsible for 90% of our problems, but the one problem that he was 100% responsible for (siezes all the power, yet wields it to our own detriment) was a problem that we were NEVER going to get around as long as he was still here.

BGMaverick9 · 05-14-2008, 10:38 PM

Until Avery fixes his ego and let's other people's voices be heard, he's going to have a hard time really breaking through. Thinking everyone would work around him, AND be the team's psychiatrist...it's a bit much for him. He was in over his head. Like PDub said before, his greatest strength is his greatest weakness.

Evilmav2 · 05-14-2008, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

his [Avery's] crazy brand of cracker-jack coaching.

"Crazy Brand of Cracker-Jack Coaching"... Hahaha... That's a brilliant phrase, CD. Deserves to be darned well copyrighted is what I'd say

...

“But we are trying to figure out how to take the next step. We've got a System in place now, and we're trying to plug in the Right Pieces!!!!!"

chumdawg · 05-14-2008, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilmav2

“But we are trying to figure out how to take the next step. We've got a System in place now, and we're trying to plug in the Right Pieces!!!!!

We need to hit the weight room. We need to finish stronger. That's our rallying cry this year. Hit the weights and finish stronger!

AxdemxO · 05-14-2008, 11:06 PM

What Dirk said :

"So I'm looking forward to communicating a lot," Nowitzki said. "I think that's what Avery was missing a little bit, the communication with the players individually. I think that's the way to go -- not only find your way as a coach, but find out what the players like, where they like to catch the ball, what sets they like. Because it's still a player's league, it's not a league of coaches. You've got to find the way to get the best out of players."

sike · 05-14-2008, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

What Dirk said :

"So I'm looking forward to communicating a lot," Nowitzki said. "I think that's what Avery was missing a little bit, the communication with the players individually. I think that's the way to go -- not only find your way as a coach, but find out what the players like, where they like to catch the ball, what sets they like. Because it's still a player's league, it's not a league of coaches. You've got to find the way to get the best out of players."

dang.

thats a lot, coming from Dirk.

link?

BGMaverick9 · 05-14-2008, 11:23 PM

Avery always said "communication is never a problem. I always have communication with the players."

Maybe he did, but he didn't let the players speak back or it was just one ear and out the other.

I've only see the tail end of that quote, didn't see that first part...so thanks for that.
-----------------
This is from DMoore:
Q: I see where Avery was fired with "three years left on his contract worth about $12 million." What did Avery get in terms of a buy-out of those terms?

RO, Dallas

MOORE: If he sits out three years he receives the full $12 million. If you know anything about Johnson, you know he's physically incapable of being away from the game that long. Once he signs with another team, Cuban will be off the hook for the remainder of the contract.

Wow, I didn't know that was actually the case or if that is common in buy-outs. I figure Cuban should be off the hook in a few weeks or only have to pay for one more year.

AxdemxO · 05-14-2008, 11:43 PM

Its the article on ESPN...about our new coach and thats what Dirk had to say

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3396239

AxdemxO · 05-14-2008, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Avery always said "communication is never a problem. I always have communication with the players."

Maybe he did, but he didn't let the players speak back or it was just one ear and out the other.

I've only see the tail end of that quote, didn't see that first part...so thanks for that.
-----------------
This is from DMoore:
Q: I see where Avery was fired with "three years left on his contract worth about $12 million." What did Avery get in terms of a buy-out of those terms?

RO, Dallas

MOORE: If he sits out three years he receives the full $12 million. If you know anything about Johnson, you know he's physically incapable of being away from the game that long. Once he signs with another team, Cuban will be off the hook for the remainder of the contract.

Wow, I didn't know that was actually the case or if that is common in buy-outs. I figure Cuban should be off the hook in a few weeks or only have to pay for one more year.

WOOOOW thats some messed up shit...he could do nothing for 3 years and get 12 million...wow how can it work like that

BGMaverick9 · 05-14-2008, 11:48 PM

It is...but like Moore said, it's going to be hard for Avery to sit for THREE years. I'm sure 3 weeks will be killing him. I fully expect Cuban to be off the hook after one year at the latest.

sike · 05-14-2008, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Its the article on ESPN...about our new coach and thats what Dirk had to say

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3396239

here is the Dirk-centric part...

""Having said all that about the offensive end, we've got to be passionate and vigilant about preserving what Avery did here in establishing the defensive end," Carlisle said. "This team didn't get to the championship round until they really made a commitment defensively."

Sitting near the back of the room, Nowitzki loved what he was hearing.

"That's cool," he whispered.

Truth is, Carlisle and Nowitzki hit it off the first time they met, a few days into the coaching search. Carlisle was the first and only candidate interviewed and within days he was going through a second round of meetings with team owner Mark Cuban and Donnie Nelson, the team's president of basketball operations. After getting together in Indianapolis, they met in Dallas and invited Nowitzki to join them at Cuban's house.

Nowitzki figured he'd be there an hour. He stayed more than four, starving because he'd skipped lunch, but thrilled with everything he heard.

"He was great, just a great guy. Somebody you can talk to that's easygoing," Nowitzki said. "What I liked about it the most was he asked me, `What do I like? What do I want to improve on going forward?"

Carlisle even gave Nowitzki some pointers, tips he'd gleaned from his days playing and coaching with Larry Bird.

"We got up in the living room and he already started teaching me some stuff that Larry used to do to get easier looks and get himself going if there where nights when his jumper wasn't going," Nowitzki said.

Nowitzki seemed surprised when he was told Carlisle didn't exactly have a reputation for being a player's coach. He noted that Carlisle sent him several text messages during the week lawyers spent wrangling over the contract and called him the night it was done. Carlisle also is planning on going to Germany for a few days this summer to continue bonding with his best player.

"So I'm looking forward to communicating a lot," Nowitzki said. "I think that's what Avery was missing a little bit, the communication with the players individually. I think that's the way to go -- not only find your way as a coach, but find out what the players like, where they like to catch the ball, what sets they like. Because it's still a player's league, it's not a league of coaches. You've got to find the way to get the best out of players."