Interesting... - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Rick41 · 12-30-2009, 01:21 PM

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=2398

Quote:

And they're off!
The race for payroll reduction via a mid-season trade began a week ago with Utah sending Eric Maynor to OKC for nothing more than cap/tax savings for the Jazz, and it continued this week with a Minnesota-Phoenix trade done purely to trim the Suns' budget.
Of more interest is the trade that didn't go down. Originally Minnesota tried to do the same deal with New Orleans, but technicalities (a no-trade option that was used by Devin Brown, just like Devean George with the Kidd trade two years ago) got in the way, and the Hornets were left high and dry as the Wolves went elsewhere.
What also emerged was the revelation that despite the setback, the Hornets seem absolutely determined to find a way to keep from paying tax this season. Because they are $3-4M over the line right now, that's a very challenging task to accomplish via mid-season trades that typically need similar salary going both ways.
But a trade that includes Drew Gooden's vanishing contract could do exactly that for them.
So what should the Mavs do? What would we do, if we were Donnie and Cuban?
Call and ask for Chris Paul and they hang up the phone. They probably prefer not to talk about David West either, but they probably listen and ask for something back in assets as well as savings. But is anyone else on that team going to be off-limits? Doubt it.
So is there a deal here worth chasing for the Mavs? Eight things to keep in mind as we play Amateur GM:

1. West is a 6-9 power forward. Could he fit in Dallas in some sort of three-headed rotation with Dirk and Damp, in essence supplanting Gooden?
2. Or are there opportunities with West going to a third team in a three-way swap, one that would bring something the Mavs would want more?
3. Sacramento is said to be looking for a forward who plays like West, and is thought to have the ability to trade shooting guard Kevin Martin due to the emergence of rookie Tyreke Evans in the backcourt while Martin has been hurt. Would a deal that sends West to Sacramento and brings Martin to Dallas be worth exploring? And if so what talent would New Orleans demand along with the savings? And who would have to supply it?
4. What other teams besides Sacramento might have a scorer the Mavs might want … while also desirous of gaining West in trade?
5. The simpler approach to all of the above would be to see who the Mavs could use directly from the Hornets' roster. But is there anyone else really worth having?
6. Also, keep in mind that the financial pressure on that Hornets franchise has greatly hampered their hopes to build a contender, so if you are Dallas and you make them viable again by helping them add affordable pieces around Chris Paul, you have suffered a “hidden cost.’’
7. If the Mavs trade Gooden but want to get him back after he's waived, even if he wants to come back the rules would require them to wait a month. (As with what we called “The Boomerang Buyout’’ as it applied to Jerry Stackhouse’s inclusion in the original proposal to the Nets in the Kidd acquisition.) A month of games. … that's a lot of games to play in the interim with only Dampier available at center. Would Humphries and Singleton (assuming neither was included in the trade) be able to fill the role well enough to take the chance?
8. Since they are in the same division, would New Orleans even be open to trading with Dallas, even if the Mavs have the best solution for their need? Or vice versa?

The deadline -- if the Mavs want to make such a deal with Gooden -- is only about a week away. (Review those facts and figures here.) But now we definitely know the name of one possible partner who would dearly love such a dollars-saving deal: New Orleans. Will they be the answer? Will it be someone else instead? Or no one?

We'll know in a week or less.

kg_veteran · 12-30-2009, 01:49 PM

I'd be shocked to see the Hornets just dump West, but even if they were inclined to do so I think they'd want more back than Dallas is willing to give. Also, I don't know why Sacramento would want David West when they already have Jason Thompson at PF, unless they plan on moving Thompson to C.

A Gooden/Barea/S. Williams package would make a 3-way with Martin coming to Dallas work. I'd do that, but I don't see why New Orleans would.

badfish22 · 12-30-2009, 02:30 PM

I don't want David West on the Dallas Mavericks one bit.

me770706 · 12-30-2009, 02:54 PM

a trio of Jet, Josh, and West would be the strongest bench in the league.

SMC0007 · 12-30-2009, 03:05 PM

Martin is pretty damn close to what we need here at SG. Not sure who we gotta give up...and I'm not so sure we can afford to lose JJB and Gooden tho.

cinemablend · 12-30-2009, 03:26 PM

Why has everyone given up on the notion of Josh Howard as SG already? Before the season everyone was on board with it, now everyone seems to think it's a horrible idea... even though WE STILL HAVEN'T seen it.

Before we start making radical trades to other teams to get yet another SG on our already SG loaded roster... maybe Carlisle should actually try Josh at the 2 for a bit?

LSMF · 12-30-2009, 03:55 PM

Kevin Martin would be the legit second scorer we have needed for years to take some pressure off Dirk, I doubt that the Hornets or Kings would want any part of this deal though.

Flacolaco · 12-30-2009, 04:00 PM

Descriptive thread title. Very informative.

Rick41 · 12-30-2009, 04:04 PM

All you have to do is click and scroll?

SMC0007 · 12-30-2009, 04:26 PM

I read it in the actual article on the "other" site but I couldn't resist the ol' click and scroll in this thread, to find out what was so interesting. Thats why I typically always get Rick Roll'd. Now that I have said that, I probably will in this very thread now.

DubOverdose · 12-30-2009, 04:58 PM

I'd be all for Martin, but I don't see any way of getting him here while keeping the core in tact.

Bayliss · 12-30-2009, 05:28 PM

Martin is made out of paper mache. The dude couldn't stay healthy if he was playing in a non contact infant league.

Nowitzki4President · 12-30-2009, 05:35 PM

My worry about Martin isn't necessarily the chances of him getting injured again, everyone has the same chance of getting hurt on every given night. Just look at Ron Artest... The dude fell down the stairs.

If we're able to get him by moving Gooden, who we'd get back in a month, and expirings, I'm all for it. But if we're talking about moving JHo or even JJB, then I'd step back and think about it for a second. If JJB was included, I may still do it.

Btw, as far as I know, Martin has only had a groin injury, and the injury he has right now, right? That's not too injury prone, and none of them have been severe season ending injuries.

Bayliss · 12-30-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Btw, as far as I know, Martin has only had a groin injury, and the injury he has right now, right? That's not too injury prone, and none of them have been severe season ending injuries.

Well, he has played 70+ games 2 out of his 6 year career. He hasn't played in 70+ games since the 06-07 season.

He is very injury prone.

Nowitzki4President · 12-30-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Well, he has played 70+ games 2 out of his 6 year career. He hasn't played in 70+ games since the 06-07 season.

He is very injury prone.

But his first years, he was on the bench just due to being a rookie. I mean, look at us with Roddy, he was selected in the same time in the draft as Martin (The low to mid 20's), and he's not getting many games. But people in the future won't look at this in retrospect and say "Roddy played barely any games in his first two years, he's injury prone".

I'm researching Martin right now, trying to solidify us Mavs fans statements that he's injury prone, but at the moment, I've only found 2 injuries, including his current one. Maybe I'm just doing poor research and haven't found the said numerous amounts of injuries that we are referencing.

I will keep looking, but so far I haven't found much. If you could link me to info about any other injuries other than the two we've mentioned, I'd appreciate it.

EricaLubarsky · 12-30-2009, 05:54 PM

I'd take Martin in a heartbeat for expirings. Of course any trade that I'd do in a heartbeat is probably extremely unlikely.

As for the injury question: count the number of games he's missed because of injury. Counting how many games he played of all possible is deceptive and does nothing to show how injury prone he is. For instance Martin only played 45 games in his rookie season averaging 10mpg. Is that because of injury? I dont see a single report of injury that kept him out of a game. He missed 37 games because he was an inconsistent rookie.

LSMF · 12-30-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Martin is made out of paper mache. The dude couldn't stay healthy if he was playing in a non contact infant league.

I respect Kevin Martin. He's only 185 pounds yet he isn't afraid to take it to the rack on players bigger than him. The problem is that because of his skinny frame he tends to get hurt quite a bit. He'd still be a great player here if we didn't have to give up to much for him. He's already a proven 20+ Point scorer, but what I like about him is his efficiency. This guy takes good shots, and consistently tries his best to get to the FT line. If he was here in Dallas I think he'd be an all-star. He'd be getting good looks from Kidd, he'd get good looks from the attention placed on Dirk, and he's a good ball handler and we don't have a lot of those on our team.

Nowitzki4President · 12-30-2009, 06:03 PM

Exactly what I was trying to say, Erica, if I can call you that. You just said it in a more intellectual way than I did. The guy wasn't missing games early on due to injury, but due to inexperience and it being his rookie year after all.

I just don't want this "Gooden Chip" thing to be blown out of proportion and have nothing come from it. I still have blue balls from the Buck Shot disappointment

Thomas86 · 12-30-2009, 07:34 PM

I'm not sure about trading JJB yet since Roddy doesn't look like he's ready to be a full time back up yet and I'm not even thinking about Terry trying to play full time back up PG, as for Kevin Martin....if the Mavs have a chance to get him they NEED to do because the guy would take some much pressure off Dirk.

mavsfan1000 · 12-30-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas86

I'm not sure about trading JJB yet since Roddy doesn't look like he's ready to be a full time back up yet and I'm not even thinking about Terry trying to play full time back up PG, as for Kevin Martin....if the Mavs have a chance to get him they NEED to do because the guy would take some much pressure off Dirk.

You gotta be kidding me. Barea that much better than Terry? Kevin Martin could handle the ball some in the backup anyways when Terry is in the game. I think we gotta do it. Roddy needs some opportunities as well.

badfish22 · 12-31-2009, 12:23 AM

I wonder how much Dlord really thinks Martin would help the Mavs. I have heard mixed reviews.
If we can somehow get that deal off maybe then trade Josh for Camby.

Kidd/JJ
Martin/Jet
Marion/TT
Dirk/Gooded(after he gets waived)
Camby/Damp

StackAttack · 12-31-2009, 12:38 AM

Just scrolled through the thread real fast so sorry if this was posted already, but a completely unrelated report today also saying that the Hornets may be forced to part with West, whether they like it or not:

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archiv...to_move_west/#

Thomas86 · 12-31-2009, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavsfan1000

You gotta be kidding me. Barea that much better than Terry? Kevin Martin could handle the ball some in the backup anyways when Terry is in the game. I think we gotta do it. Roddy needs some opportunities as well.

There's a reason why Terry was moved to SG and not PG anymore, Terry role on the Mavs is to add instant offense coming off the bench with JJB doing all the play calling duties, if the Mavs trade JJB then Terry is gonna go back to trying to play PG when he play's better a SG that's why I wouldn't trade JJB just yet, Roddy was looking great in the minutes he was giving but Rick Carlisle sent him back to the bench without even knowing if he can be Kidd's back up yet.

quietsavant · 12-31-2009, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

I wonder how much Dlord really thinks Martin would help the Mavs. I have heard mixed reviews.
If we can somehow get that deal off maybe then trade Josh for Camby.

Kidd/JJ
Martin/Jet
Marion/TT
Dirk/Gooded(after he gets waived)
Camby/Damp

I still have zero appeal for camby and am shocked everytime I here someone mention him as a potential target. Isn't this guy always hurt? I'm not attacking you, just curious as to what about him appeals to you? he's not the shot blocker he once was, and i think damp right now has more offense than the guy

badfish22 · 12-31-2009, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

I still have zero appeal for camby and am shocked everytime I here someone mention him as a potential target. Isn't this guy always hurt? I'm not attacking you, just curious as to what about him appeals to you? he's not the shot blocker he once was, and i think damp right now has more offense than the guy

There are two things I think the Mavs need in order to win a ring:
1. A consistent #2 scorer to go along with Dirk. Pau Gasol and Kevin Garnett compliment their stars as they have shown they can be a #1 option on a team. Dirk doesn't have someone that could do that. Could Kevin Martin?
2. Another 7 foot guy we can throw out there to go against the Lakers big man rotation. Marcus Camby sounds like a good fit here. Hes played in 29 games this year and has been playing well.
Plus Camby has an expiring contract.

dirno2000 · 12-31-2009, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

I still have zero appeal for camby and am shocked everytime I here someone mention him as a potential target. Isn't this guy always hurt? I'm not attacking you, just curious as to what about him appeals to you? he's not the shot blocker he once was, and i think damp right now has more offense than the guy

He may not be the shot blocker he once was but as for today he's 5th in the league in blocked shots and 4th in rebounding. Plus he's long, intimidating and can knock down the open mid range jump shot probably better than any center we have. Camby would be my dream move for this team. He was the reason I was hoping we could save our MLE. So we could money whip him if he ended up getting released. In retrospect Gooden was a decent use of it and kept us afloat when Damp went down. Still, I'd love to see Camby here this year if the opportunity presents itself.

mac222b · 12-31-2009, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

There are two things I think the Mavs need in order to win a ring:
1. A consistent #2 scorer to go along with Dirk. Pau Gasol and Kevin Garnett compliment their stars as they have shown they can be a #1 option on a team. Dirk doesn't have someone that could do that. Could Kevin Martin?
2. Another 7 foot guy we can throw out there to go against the Lakers big man rotation. Marcus Camby sounds like a good fit here. Hes played in 29 games this year and has been playing well.
Plus Camby has an expiring contract.

this ^

quietsavant · 12-31-2009, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badfish22

There are two things I think the Mavs need in order to win a ring:
1. A consistent #2 scorer to go along with Dirk. Pau Gasol and Kevin Garnett compliment their stars as they have shown they can be a #1 option on a team. Dirk doesn't have someone that could do that. Could Kevin Martin?
2. Another 7 foot guy we can throw out there to go against the Lakers big man rotation. Marcus Camby sounds like a good fit here. Hes played in 29 games this year and has been playing well.
Plus Camby has an expiring contract.

point taken. very nice explanation. thanks dirno also

badfish22 · 12-31-2009, 03:27 AM

But it also looks like nothing will happen as Donnie is once again saying things like "we're looking to go with this group."

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...e.3ed2250.html

Maybe its for the best.....

jthig32 · 12-31-2009, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

He may not be the shot blocker he once was but as for today he's 5th in the league in blocked shots and 4th in rebounding. Plus he's long, intimidating and can knock down the open mid range jump shot probably better than any center we have. Camby would be my dream move for this team. He was the reason I was hoping we could save our MLE. So we could money whip him if he ended up getting released. In retrospect Gooden was a decent use of it and kept us afloat when Damp went down. Still, I'd love to see Camby here this year if the opportunity presents itself.

Yup. A Damp/Camby rotation would be unreal.

Honestly though I think people need to come to grips with the idea that Gooden is probably not going to get moved at this point. Maybe towards the deadline as a regular expiring contract.

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-31-2009, 10:25 AM

Well Gooden has earned a get out of jail free card after that Denver win imo. He did exactly what he was acquired to do. He and Damp destroyed them. I think his main flaw is the moronic double teaming. I'm not sure what is going through his head when he does that, but it costs points for sure. But man, when he gets groovin' it might just be worth keeping. Hard to give up on tough nosed players who give decent effort.

quietsavant · 12-31-2009, 12:51 PM

I dream of a west/nowitzki frontcourt

Kante · 12-31-2009, 02:26 PM

Yeah, with their great D...Dirk needs someone good on D next to him!

nowhereman · 12-31-2009, 03:39 PM

A 42% volume shooter that takes more than 55% of his shots from >16 feet away, and doesn't play defense, and has a bad contract, and is injury prone?

WHERE DO I SIGN UP!?!

jthig32 · 12-31-2009, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nowhereman

A 42% volume shooter that takes more than 55% of his shots from >16 feet away, and doesn't play defense, and has a bad contract, and is injury prone?

WHERE DO I SIGN UP!?!

Say what?

Are you talking about Kevin Martin here? Volume shooter? I'm confused.

particleman · 12-31-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

I dream of a west/nowitzki frontcourt

That's a nightmare for me. I hate David West with all my heart.

LonghornDub · 12-31-2009, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Say what?

Are you talking about Kevin Martin here? Volume shooter? I'm confused.

Was he talking about West? That doesn't sound one bit like Kevin Martin.

mavsfan1000 · 12-31-2009, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas86

There's a reason why Terry was moved to SG and not PG anymore, Terry role on the Mavs is to add instant offense coming off the bench with JJB doing all the play calling duties, if the Mavs trade JJB then Terry is gonna go back to trying to play PG when he play's better a SG that's why I wouldn't trade JJB just yet, Roddy was looking great in the minutes he was giving but Rick Carlisle sent him back to the bench without even knowing if he can be Kidd's back up yet.

Having a quality 2 guard is worth moving Terry to the point guard off the bench. Terry as a 2 guard is slightly better for our offense but we lose size on defense due to it. And Kevin Martin can help out Terry in the ball handling area when he is in the game. I think having a quality 2 is what we've been missing. We got the pure point guard, athletic SF, and great shooting power forward that spreads out the defense, and a paint clogging center. All we need is a versatile 2 that can hit 3's and score. And Roddy showed no sign of struggling when he was in the game. It had more to due with too many point guards.