Observations about the Mavs (from germany)

[Fidel]

Yeah I know this is my first post, but I´ve been reading for a while, there were problems with the mail server so I couldn´t join earlier.

About the whole Fin and Dirk situation: Now you others realise and start to rip Howard. In my opinion the Howard trade was bad for the Mavs (I said that on NBATalk). It totally ruined their chemistry. For the last few weeks the Mavs were a team of Howard and Finley on one side and Dirk and Nash on the other.

I´m from germany but I´m not a Mavs fan because of Dirk, I became a Mavs fan because they played teamball. I like those game loving, gym-rat type of guys that Nash and Dirk are.
Everyone respected each other. From Leattner to Buckner to Najera to Davis to the starters. Not any more.
The Howard trade destroyed the chemistry big time. I´m saying that even if we win the Jazz series (which is not likely).
The Mavs were about fun and sharing, about team spirit. Now the last few weeks it was only a Finley Howard lovefest. They were icing Dirk in particular a lot. Fin would only pass to Dirk if he was in trouble and Dirk would often have to take bad, hesitated shots. Sometimes he was the fourth option and Nash the third, way behind Howard, and thats not a good thing.
I don´t know why Finley would do this but it seems to be very important to him that the Mavs are "his" team.
Unfortunatly there is no chance he will keep up with Dirk because Dirk is one of the most tallented guys in the league IMO and will get significanntly better while Finley is peaking right now.
Now the Mavs organisation should be concerned about this IMO, because if Dirk doesn´t like it in Dallas any more he´ll walk away next summer.
People in Würzburg think the same (I´ve discussed a lot with them on german boards and I can tell you that Dirk still talks with them a lot and listens to them. And no! I don´t say I know Dirk I will tell him to leave or any bullshit like that. I´m just sayin what other people told me who know him from his times in Würzburg.)

So I wish the Mavs would get this straight pretty soon and start to play team ball again. Also I wish they would tell Finley to relax and tell Howard who he is: an overpaid average PF who should be a sidekick and not the main guys. Also they should tell him: go rebound!

Hmmm thats alot, but like I said I couldn´t post for a while so I had to write it all at once...

One other thing. If you say: He´s from germany how would he know anything about the NBA or hoops. I´d say I´m playin hoops now for about 15 years, and I´m following the NBA since the late 80´s. Also I´m on pay-tv here so I´m able to watch alot of NBA games. I think they were showing around 30 Mavs games this year (because of Dirk, obviously).
Also sorry for my english, but like I said I´m german.

Teamball!!! Go Mavs!!!

[Evilmav2]

Excellent points Fidel. I still think that the Howard trade was a good one, but I have to agree with you about his effects upon the established roles of our scorers. My primary concern after the aquisition of Howard was that it would take away some of Dirks' offensive looks, and might hamper his continuing development of a low post game. I have long thought that the only thing preventing him becoming one of the top three or four players in the game is his current partial lack of ability to abuse smaller defenders on the block. If Dirk can get to the point of being able to go around or shoot over bigger defenders (which he currently can do), and post up smaller defenders he will be very difficult to stop indeed... The development of that latter ability will probably be hampered by the aquistion of a low post scorer like Howard, but then again, we will probably be a better team next year (after Howard goes through training camp and the preseason) than we would have bee without his aquisition...

Also, where do you live in Germany? I only ask because I lived in Celle (Niedersachsen) for a little over five years, and my family knows quite a few members of the German community in Dallas...

[Fidel]

Thanks Evilmav,
I´m from the Frankfurt area (Mainz do be exact).
Hmm you may be right about Howard, we´ll see. But the Mavs should be concerned about the situation or there is a chance they will blow up next summer.
I really would like Nash and Dirk to be more demanding. I like them because they are different from all those thug-playing-bboy-posin-gangstas. It´s about sport not about jewels etc. To make that clear: It´s not about black or white. I.e.: I also like Kevin Garnett alot, for his love of the game and his dedication.

[Fidel]

Oh and I know you root for Shawn Bradley.
So I have to include him. Some people on this board say he should concentrade more etc. but I think he works as hard as possible to get better. I know he looks ugly sometimes but thats not his fault. He´s just 7.6 and can´t gain any weight. But he makes the best of it, and that´s what I like.

Teamball!!! Go Mavs!!!

[giostar]

I dont know that it was such a bad trade. The Mavs werent getting any presence down low, and probably coulnt get anyone else to bite on a trade for a decent (I said decent, not great) PF. I mean he isnt doing much better than what we had, but if we had the other players before who would have guarded Malone? I dont think L8 was the answer. I dont think juwan is the answer either, but at least it was something.

[Fidel]

In our first win at Utah Leattner did a good job on Malone, holding him to 13 pts. with 4/14 shooting. Generally I think Leattner was a better defender than Howard. But I´m not so much concerned about the quality of Howard. I´m concerned about the chemistry of the Mavs. I think the trade hurt our chemistry alot. And because chemistry is always developing the way it goes right now isn´t good I think.
This is no team anymore. Dirk and Nash seem to be irritated, unsecure.
IMO it was a little too much of Finley to Howard to Finley to Howard... the last few weeks.
Nash should be the leader of the team (in terms of on court play) and Dirk should be at least the second offensive option (which he isn´t right now).
Finley is a great all around player. And if he is the heart and soul of this team than he must act like that. That could also mean not taking the most shots (which he almost always does right now). If you are a leader and you feel like it you don´t need statistic proof. Ron Harper IMO is the leader (or one of the leaders with Phil and Shaq) of the Lakers and he was on IR almost the whole year.

I guess Finley realises the tremendous talent Dirk has, and he feels unsure about his role on the team, he seems to be unsecure. IMO that carries over on the team. So I think Finley should relax and let Dirk take over at times.
He will only profit from Dirk´s developement. He should let it flow. When you are a true leader you know it even without all-star-game appearences or statistic proof. Others know too, so the respect will be there, even when you don´t ask for it or try to push the thing (like Finley does right now)

Teamball!!! Go Mavs!!!

[Bookit]

Fidel_Castro, actually the Howard trade has worked great! He has played a major role in all of the Mavs major road wins. The offense has averaged more points with him in the lineup. He just has a hard time with Karl Malone. Its a bad matchup for him. He is afraid of getting the ball stripped so he loses his aggressiveness against Malone. Look how he played against Chris Webber. If we were playing the Kings in the playoffs Juwan would likely be a hero. Also, Buckner being hurt has really hurt the Mavs. I predict the Mavs go deep into the playoffs next year and Juwan Howard will be a major contributor.

[Fidel]

Bookit,
as I said it´s not about Howard. I know he had some good games for the Mavs. He won´t be enough though against the Spurs or Lakers.
My main concern, as I said in the posts above, is team chemistry, the way the Mavs play ball right now and what I think about Finley/Dirk.

[LAM0015]

I've often shared alot of the same sentiments Fidel...and it's actually caused many heated debates.
Yes, finley is the better player right now, but he's at his peak. Dirk is almost as good of a player but he has a tremendous upside. Dirk may end up being one of the truly outstanding players in the NBA in a couple of years.

I have noticed several times since the acquisition of howard that dirk will often be "frozen" out of the offense for long stretches. Several games, i actually kept up with the # of passes from finley to dirk. There were several times where it was under 10...some even under 5 times in an entire game. It seems as if finley and howard are on a team of their own on the offensive side at times. I do believe that nash has done a good job of getting the ball to dirk, finley and howard though.

I don't know if the howard deal was a good one or not. yes, i think it might have been a good deal for this year..but what about long term? does howard have a dominating enough of an inside game to be a tremendous asset to the mavs? i guess we'll see on the offensive side. but the answer is a definite "NO" on the defensive side (especially rebounding). Howard should be the #3 or #4 scoring option. Yes, i realize that there will be games when he's hot and needs the ball, but in general, he should be the #3 or #4 scoring option.
welcome to the board.
Let's hope that juwan is a good acquistion....but let's hope that the signing of juwan doesn't restrict us from bringing in a truly dominant inside presence.

[LAM0015]

this team has to establish dirk and finley as the primary scorers next year. The mavs cannot afford to lose either player...both of them must remain happy.
obviously, the chemistry seem to be ok in the playoffs,...but there's alot of factors that could run together that could ruin the chemistry.....
1)the mark cuban factor...yes, he's a good owner, but how much of his antics are the players willing to put up with?
2)the juwan howard factor...he himself is not a problem...but his impact on the team could be a problem if it messes up chemistry and takes away from the flow of the offense (i don't think this will happen).
3)the mike finley factor...how will he handle dirk possibly becoming the better player?(fine, i'm sure..mike will still be a very, very necessary part of the team..and he'll handle it with class).
4)the money factor...will the players continue to have the same positive attitude towards some of the grossly overpaid players on the team?(i don't see this as a problem, but stranger things will happen)


truthfully, I've seen the combination of howard and finley turn into a selfish duo at times this year. However, I think that finley has been a true leader over the last few games of the regular season and into the playoffs. With Finley, I'm sure that it'll continue.

[dallaslaker]

Couldn't agree more about the Finley/Dirk stuff. Currently, this is Finley's team, but a close #2 option has GOT to be Dirk. Also, Dirk's low-post moves have to significantly increase if he is going to become the super-star that we see in him. I would like to Nellie sit down with Howard and tell him point blank that our goal is get Dirk posted up. That means you on the other side looking to get the board if/when it comes off. Howard doesn't have the strength of some PFs, but he is pretty quick. Plus, all rebounding is positioning and timing for when the ball comes off the rim. Hell, Barkley was one of the greatest rebounders and he is only 6'6" and grossly overweight.

[LAM0015]

my problem with howard had nothing to do with his size.... it's his inability and/or unwillingness to rebound and play defense on a semi-consistent basis.
i think he has the physical ability to play some defense and rebound, but will he?

[LAM0015]

howard has never averaged more than 8.4 rebounds per game..and that was in his rookie season when he averaged 8.4.
for a guy that plays the power forward position and gets as many minutes as he does....it is unacceptable

[Fidel]

Lam,
i think Cuban will calm down. He is so concerned about his team that he will tone it down when he notices his antics distract the team.
Howard IMO is just soft. And he already hurt team chemistry. The Mavs are no longer that close group they were. It´s not Howards fault. I think it´s just natural cause Fin and Howard are such good friends. They´d like to see each other excel rather than Dirk or Nash.
To Dallaslaker: that was one of my main concerns with the Howard trade. Dirk needs to develop his post up game and he doesn´t have the opportunity if every ball down low goes into Howard. (But I think there will be less 1 on 1 in the low post next year because of the zone so perhaps this could be less important then).
With Finley I´m a little confused. I always thought he was a true warrior with hart and spirit. But the way he approaches this new situation now I´m not so sure.
I know you had a debate whether Finley was a great player or not. I think he can prove it now. I realy believe MJ or Magic didn´t care at all for all this individual stuff. MJ just wanted the Bulls to win, he wanted rings.
He knew he was the best player in the world, but if necessary he would let John Paxon or Steve Kerr take the last shot in a ballgame.
That´s what made him great IMO. To make his teammates better by trusting in them (I don´t think Kerr would have hit that shot if Michael wasn´t there).
MJ always thought team first. When he scored 50 but the Bulls lost he wouldn´t speak about the 50 but only about the loss.

So now Finley could prove that he is a great player. By not securing himself and his position, but by putting trust into his teammates, by realising that you only win if all is one.

Teamball!!! Go Mavs!!!

[LAM0015]

i think it is howard's fault to an extent...yes, i know they want to see each other succeed...but how about juwan learning to pass out of a double team or at least attempting to rebound and play defense. that would be a nice start.
i'm not sure why finley went through the extended stretch where he almost refused to dish the ball to dirk... i guess he does want howard to succeed because they are friends...but dirk has to be the #1 or #2 option on this team. howard just doesn't have the ability to be the #2 option on the mavs.

i think cuban will learn....i just hope it's soon rather than later
truthfully, if i was an owner..i don't think i would be as restrained as he has been (which isn't very)

i honestly think that finley has played really good basketball in the playoffs...but one playoff series isn't enough to prove much
mj and magic did it over an extended period of time...and they both often carried their teams on their shoulders to victory.
finley has a long ways to go to even be mentioned in magic's and mj's class. i'm sure he'll never get there..no offense to fin, but it's not very likely

[Fidel]

Yeah Finley played good so far. But it´s also a mental thing. I don´t think he has the inner strenght right now to make his teammates better.
Of course Finley can not reach MJ or Magic. He won´t even come close. He´s a good all around player but McGrady or a healthy Hill or Jason Kidd are better. I just wanted to express what I consider great players to be like (mentally). And of course did MJ carry the team all by himself a lot of times. But he could do that, cause he was a great player, Finley can´t and he shouldn´t try or the Mavs will explode.
MJ could carry the team by himself because because his teammates would let him. They respected him because he respected them. No one would ever think of MJ as beeing selfish, everyone would say he does what he does because he wants the Bulls to win. With alot of players in the league (and I think Finley is one of them right now, not as obviously as others though) it´s the other way around. They do what they do because they want to be considered as great players. And like I said: That´s just the wrong approach.
From sheer potential: Kobe is the only one who could be almost as great as MJ. But he has to learn alot, he has to get his head straight, make a 180 degree turnaround mentally.(I´m sure Phil is working on that one. Interessting to see who wins...)

[LAM0015]

well, the thing about players that carry their teams to victories season after season..they are usually head and shoulders better than everyone else on their team.
was their any doubt that mj was the best player on his team? was their any doubt who would carry them?

yes, finley can carry the mavs for short periods of time...but so can dirk.
their's plenty of doubt to who the best player is...right now, it's probably finley..but just barely.
finley and dirk have to co-exist...
the thing about mj is that as soon as he won the crown, the selfish tag went away from him because people realized that he did whatever he needed to do to win the championship....

if the mavs get in a position to win a championship the next few years, it will not be solely on the shoulders of finley...it won't be his grit and determination that gets them there....if it's any one player's..it'll be dirk's, by that time, he'll be established as the top player on the mavs team (with very little doubt). but, it'll probably be a team effort...without one player standing head and shoulders above the rest based on performance. yes, dirk will be the best player but with a tremendous supporting cast around him (finley, nash, howard, and whoever else).

[Fidel]

Hey Lam, (and the others too)
read the article "Baron takes over" on espn.com. The way Wesley reacted and handeled the whole situation. IMO that´s just how Finley should handle it if Dirk emerges like it seems he will.

[LAM0015]

couldn't find it
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

[Fidel]

It´s here:
Baron takes over

Yes!! Dirk and Nash also took over today
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
Howard and Bradley with good games.

Mavs in 5 !!!

[LAM0015]

i don't see finley ever doing something like that

[LAM0015]

where have you been hiding fidel?

[Fidel]

I´m here,
mostly reading cause I´m a bit short of time right now.
great game last night from everyone.
but I think those 2 games made it pretty clear that the mavs go
as Dirk and Nash go.
I´m not saying Fin is not important too, it´s just that when the game goes
the way Nash and Dirk play it, then it´s a team game.

As I said before:
Mavs in 5 !!!

[Murphy3]

i pretty much agree that the mavs have tended to go as steve and dirk go.
but, finley's still the MVP of this team, but this is probably the last year that he'll be the MVP. dirk and nash are stepping up to finley's level (which is what the mavs need)