Dirk to Mark: Keep chillin Cubes!

[ReDIRKulous]

Fox blurb


Nowitzki to Cuban: Relax
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GREG BEACHAM / Associated Press
Posted: 2 hours ago
LOS ANGELES (AP) — German NBA star Dirk Nowitzki thinks his Dallas Mavericks boss Mark Cuban worries too much.

Cuban made headlines last weekend after trading jabs with U.S. coach Larry Brown over NBA players' involvement in the Olympics and other international tournaments.
Cuban would prefer to keep his high-priced players out of international events to safeguard their health, though he hasn't yet made an ultimatum to international regulars Nowitzki, Steve Nash of Canada and Eduardo Najera of Mexico.

Nowitzki, a Western Conference reserve for the NBA All-Star game on Sunday, was the Most Valuable Player of the 2002 world championships. He also participated in the European Championships last summer, and he doesn't think any of it has affected his play for the Mavericks - quite the contrary, in fact.

"The whole thing is a little overrated," Nowitzki said. "I'm 25 years old. I can take it. If I wasn't playing there, I'd be playing pickup every night. It's just not a big deal.

"When I'm in competition, I'm getting better. You can really improve your game if you're working at it all the time. I don't think it's something to worry about."

[ddh33]

Again, I agree with both parties. Cuban is a great business man because he does't take high risks when the reward is not great for him. Dirk is a great player for wanting to play, and a god guy for wanting to represent his country. This whole thing has really been blown out of proportion.

I do completely agree with Dirk about playing international competition not being a big deal. I mean, don't these guys play for hours every single day? Wouldn't they play rough and tough pickup games all summer anyway? It shouldn't be the excuse that it is. But somehow, guys who play during the summer in these competitions struggle when the season rolls around. I can't explain it.

[ReDIRKulous]

I just think it is too much. 82 games... plus the post season... plus feeling like they have to carry their countries teams. I know that Dirk cares more aobut carrying his team to the olympics than he would care about winning a pick up game. The players aren't going to back out of the international competition either. Their home countries would resent them for it. You basically have to protect the players from themselves in this situation.

The NBA season is just too grueling to add the international competition to it.

[twelli]

I don't think pick-up games and international competition are the same pair of shoes. If you play with your buddies without anyone watching you can work on various aspects of your game without caring about the outcome of the game. You can adjust the intensity of the game according to your physical fitness and prevent injuries by avoiding certain moves etc. In international competition there a millions of people watching, expecting you to play the best you can, you travel more, you have interviews, and a lot of added stress to compensate. And there are a lot of non-NBA player who will play you extra hard to show that they belong in the NBA as well. Not very healthy, indeed. As I said in the Cuban vs. Brown thread, fix it in the contracts. Let players decide before signing a contract if they need the right to play for their countries. I think the international games should be non-NBA players only. If you want to see the best players playing each other, you can watch them in the NBA for 7~8 months anyway.

[twelli]

another thought:

why not ask the players to pay for taking part in international competition or at least pay for the insurance? if dirk plays for Germany, the TV ratings in his home country go up and he as a lot of opportunities to make endorsement deals. Yao, who has probably no other choice than playing for China, can surely make some extra China money in the off season...

[mavsman]

Originally posted by: twelli
another thought:

why not ask the players to pay for taking part in international competition or at least pay for the insurance?

Actually they did just that two years ago, when Dirk paid the larger part of the $ 200.000 for the insurance to be able to play in the 2002 Worlds.
Link

[dude1394]

Well nellie for one said that dirk did NOT improve his game last year. Playing pickup is not the same as focused workouts on a specific part of your game. And again it's easy for dirk to say all of this junk, he's not paying the bills. If he gets hurt, so what, no skin off his teeth.

[mavsman]

But Nellie also said that Dirk did improve from season to season since he joined the league and he did play in international competition almost every summer.
Of the things Dirk says, what especially is it you think is "junk"? The fact that he just likes to play and would do it anyhow, international competition or not? I like that and more power to him for not gaining 30 lbs during the summer while being glued to the playstation or going to Vegas getting wasted every night. Besides, as Kobe proved, household accidents are the most likely cause for injuries.

[Chiwas]

I think we have lost a key point on this:

though he hasn't yet made an ultimatum to international regulars Nowitzki, Steve Nash of Canada and Eduardo Najera of Mexico.

Even in the contracts or not, Cuban could ask for it, but he hasn't done it. All, TAW included, have played a lot not Mavs games, above all during last summer.

Cuban is only making a point, not forcing things. I feel he wants to get a consensus which speaks well about him, cause again: he could require it.

Although I like those players playing with their national teams, I wonder how many injuries could be avoided during the season if they could rest the whole summer, and if this is worth compared to what Dirk says about getting their level improved playing constantly.

[dude1394]

This is the junk:

"The whole thing is a little overrated," Nowitzki said. "I'm 25 years old. I can take it. If I wasn't playing there, I'd be playing pickup every night. It's just not a big deal.

"When I'm in competition, I'm getting better. You can really improve your game if you're working at it all the time. I don't think it's something to worry about."

Pretty much everything he said. He CAN'T take it. He got another ankle turn this summer that kept him from working out i'm sure. He's NOT as sharp this year as last. I do not believe that he gets better in competition when his team just expects him to fill it up predominantly from the outside. That's NOT his weak points.

He says that this competition improves his game, I don't buy it. I can see him taking a lot more time in the weight room, working on low-post moves with a trainer. I can see for example michael finley spending the whole summer working on his handles, seems like an obvious deal to me.

Look at how malone works in the off-season. Doesn't touch a basketball at all. All he does is work-out, get stronger and more physically ready to play. Again as mark told brown, dirk doesn't know what he's talking about her.

[mavsman]

Originally posted by: dude1394
Again as mark told brown, dirk doesn't know what he's talking about her.

So you really think that Dirk doesn't know what he's talking about when he's talking about his own body? That's at least an interesting opinion. But why don't we look at the facts:

1999: Played for Germany in the Euro Championships, the following season was voted 2nd MIP.
2001: Played for Germany in the Euro Championships where he was the top-scorer, the following season became an All-Star for the first time.
2002: Played for Germany in the World Championships where he was the MVP, the following season became an All-Star once again, increased his production yet again.

Working on his weak points is what he does anyways every year, regardless if there's a two-week-long international tournament or not. The NBA summer is long.
Also, I'm sorry, using Malone's preparation as an example doesn't really fly this year.

[ReDIRKulous]

It is obvious that International competition is damaging the quality of play of the players that participate... especially those that play through out the post season. Almost every person that particiapted in the international competition this year and last either struggled or had an injury early in the season. There is no doubt it affects players... it is just a matter of how much.

I am guessing that the biggest problem Cuban has is that the NBA has no control over how the international competition is officiated. The Mavs stars had a huge target on them and they had a ton of physical play directed at them and the international refs did nothing to protect them. If I was Cuban... or one of the players... that would be my biggest concern.

[SeriousSummer]

From the time I was in Junior High School until after I turned 40, I played ball every day. EVERY DAY. Until I was in my late twenties, I usually played at least 3 or 4 hours each day--more on weekends. Lots of games where the winning shot--to stay on the court--had to come from outside because anybody taking the ball to the hoop was going to get knocked down hard. Games outside when it was over 100, games when we had to sweep the snow off the court, games of twenty-one with thirty guys on the court at once, games in inner city courts where I was the only white guy, games in barns where they'd run you into the posts, games where you had to be willing to fight to make a foul call stand up.

If you love to play--like Dirk obviously does--then you're going to play. I've read stories about NBA players driving around the city trying to find a pick-up game. I've played in games where some NBA guy was 100 times better than anybody in the competition, and they still wanted to play. And those guys might stay outside launching 30 footers all night, unless they were in danger of losing. Then they'd take it to the hoop and you better get out of their way.

Real ballers, guys (and gals) who love the game are going to find a place to play. Dirk's probably safer in organized, international games then he would be in pick-up games where every 6'4" and bigger guy is going to try to dunk on him or block him.

The other thing is, if Dirk didn't love to play that much, he wouldn't be half the player he is.

[MavsFanFinley]

And again it's easy for dirk to say all of this junk, he's not paying the bills. If he gets hurt, so what, no skin off his teeth.

Exactly Dude. If Dirk sprains his ankle(s) again or blows out a knee, he's still going to get paid. But, the Mavs will be screwed and that's what Cuban is talking about.

Pickup games and working out are to be expected just to keep in shape and to keep their games flowing, but it's a different forum when you're talking about International play.

I hope they pass over Finley if Kobe has to skip the Olympics.

[LRB]

Also, I'm sorry, using Malone's preparation as an example doesn't really fly this year.

Actually I think it does. That Malone can even play at a high level at his age is a tremendous accomplishment. Malone is out, not with some injury incurred over the summer, but because of a freak accident that couldn't have been avoided. While Dirk has suffered all season practically from recurring ankle injuries that started last season. Also Dirk has started the last 2 seasons very slowly and has had to take longer than most players to get up to speed.

I don't think that the international competition is even keeping Dirk in form, much less helping him improve. He comes back more passive at the start of the year and has to gradually work up his agressiveness. Also, international competition is far more likely to have dirty plays than pickup games because the stakes are so much higher. I've played with the same groups of guys in league games and in pickup games, and I can tell you that the intensity and the fouls are much harder in league games.

Dirk would be much better playing some pickup games against NBA caliber opponents than participating in international competition where only a few players on the opposing team are NBA caliber. The reward versus risk is much higher for pickup games than for international play.

[mavsman]

I don't think that the international competition is even keeping Dirk in form, much less helping him improve.

He says it does. And I'm willing to believe him, because except for this season [where, as you already said, he had to endure injuries that started last season (NOT during International Competition)], it's hard to ignore the facts that he actually improved from season to season while playing for Germany during the summer.

Dirk would be much better playing some pickup games against NBA caliber opponents than participating in international competition where only a few players on the opposing team are NBA caliber.

If that was true, I'm sure Team USA consisting of 9 All-Stars and three NBA veterans would've finished better than sixth in the last World Championships. The opposite is true, amateurs in pickup games take every chance to dunk on the NBA-guy. Much higher risk there.

[Murphy3]

I'm thankful that Dirk has played in international competition throughout the years. I doubt he'd be nearly as far along as he currently is if he had not participated in the competition. Perhaps Cuban just wants the players to participate in the competition until they get to a certain stage in their career when they become to valuable. It sounds as if he wants the best of both worlds. In Cuban's mind...'International basketball, thank you for helping to develop one of the best NBA basketball players in the game. But, screw you, he doesn't need it anymore. It's too big of a risk.'

[LRB]

If that was true, I'm sure Team USA consisting of 9 All-Stars and three NBA veterans would've finished better than sixth in the last World Championships. The opposite is true, amateurs in pickup games take every chance to dunk on the NBA-guy. Much higher risk there.

Team USA finished so low because of poor play as a team, not because of lack of inidividual talent. However Dirk is not going to perfect his post moves, passing, and defense playing against inferior talent in international competition. Dirk's biggest improvement as a pro came after he played in the Mavs summer league. The style of play in international competition as well as the rules are much different than the NBA. And what works well defensively in international play may get you butt kicked in the NBA.

As for amateurs in pickup games trying to dunk on NBA guys. You can find pickup games which are almost exclusively NBA guys with few exceptions. In international play there are tons of amateurs. And they have much more incentive to play dirty than the guys in pickup games.

[Chiwas]

Wasn't Dirk injured just before the European Pre-Olympics? Didn't he play bad that tournament? He had the proper conclussion before his eyes and told a different meaning in the report.

Najera said, "I'm paying now for what I did wrong" (sort of).

Has this season been better for Nash compared to last three years? I don't think so.

Where is TAW now? Still in the IL without being injured, with two rookies playing his position.

I think the past summer -the pre-Olympics summer- did not any good for the involved Mavs.

[twelli]

here is another solution:

why not set an age limit, say only NBA-players younger than 25 are eligible for playing in international competition? That would make everyone happy.

Young players: Chance to represent their countries. Chance to get some more playoff-type experience. If injured, recovery time shorter.

Old players: Get some more rest in the off-season. No obligations and pressure to play for national teams. Give younger players a chance to play.

Owners: Less worries about losing a major player to injury.

National teams, of course, would have to live without their best and often only older super star players...

I am not quite sure how NBA players find players for pickup games. Can anyone tell me? They aren't really driving aroud at night and playing with ANYONE, are they? I can't image Dirk picks some 7-foot super thugs to play with...

[ProudAmerican]

Dirk needs to re-watch the way he played at the begining of the year and re think what he said.

I agree with Mark. He pays these guys a lot of money. He is the one who will have to answer to his paying customers (us the fans) if anything went wrong. Dirk would still get his money either way.

They need to run the NBA with out guarentee contracts. You wouldn't see so many injuries if a player didn't get paid for sitting out a game.

[Chiwas]

Sure, an insurance contract can cover Dirk's future salary if he gets badly hurt...BUT...no insurance coverage can give us another Dirk in the lineup...and that's the REAl problem.

Great point.

The Olympics are far too big a market for the NBA to be ignored, we won't be seeing "amateurs only" there ever again.

I'm affraid you're right, and it is congruent with Brown's last comments against Cuban.

[dude1394]

I edited out a portion that was so derogatory to bayliss [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img], but accidently edited out a suggestion.

Unfortunately it doesn't solve cubes problem but it does solve the us's problem and therefore tought beans. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] So we make the US team only be made up of NBA players who did not make the playoffs. They should be competitive I would imagine and it wouldn't add the wear and tear on the players.

cubes is messed over however because he has dirk,stevie,najera to contend with.

[Bayliss]

I guess you are right bayliss. Nellie is so stupid that he's not allowing the next kareem abdul jabbar to spend time in the post. I guess watching him in practice doesn't count for much. Dirk's low-post game is pretty much the same as last year and in fact it's been a struggle to keep him from launching either a fall-away or a 3pointer. I didn't see the last two games but I have seen all of .........2 hook shots taken by dirk this year. Big addition to his game. I also watch him take them in warmups and quite frankly he stinks at them. He may have been practicing them, but if he has it's been a pretty poor training regimen.

Well, I've only see him shoot it 4 times this year. 2 were in the same game.... 2 were in separate games. 2 went in... 2 did not. But at the end of last year Dirk was in the post a lot. In fact when Dirk went on his scoring binge the last 1/4 of the season he was routinely in the post. Can you say the same for this year? And he was effective in the post last year. So why not put him there more often this year?

You cannot deny the fact that Dirk is efficient is down low. Whether it looks pretty is beside the point. He gets the job done. So when Nellie says Dirk hasn't improved in the post, is hogwash. And the reason it is hogwash is because Nellie hasn't put him in the post enough this year to evaluate that. And only through repetition will a player become great in the post.

As for his defense... he might not improved that much but Nellie is playing him at a difdferent position for the first half. Did Dirk know he was going to be our center for 90% of the first half? I seriously doubt he did. And trying to learn a new position on the fly the player will struggle for awhile. But I gaurantee you this:

Dirk will not be playing center next year for the majority of minutes.

And if that is true then that means Dirk lost a year of defensive maturity because of the coach... not the player.

As far as international play, if my investment is spending an extra quarter season playing when I have to pay him and risk the consequences I'm going to gripe as well. Again the guy paying the bills has the right to gripe and the guys GETTING the money have a responsibility to listen to the guy PAYING the bills.

I agree.

[dude1394]

Well, I've only see him shoot it 4 times this year. 2 were in the same game.... 2 were in separate games. 2 went in... 2 did not. But at the end of last year Dirk was in the post a lot. In fact when Dirk went on his scoring binge the last 1/4 of the season he was routinely in the post. Can you say the same for this year? And he was effective in the post last year. So why not put him there more often this year?

I would AGREE that dirk and stevie played a lot of high pick and roll. That doesn't mean post to me. In fact dirks post game still lacks quite a bit IMHO. It's one of the reasons he gets his rear-end handed to him so much in there.

You cannot deny the fact that Dirk is efficient is down low. Whether it looks pretty is beside the point. He gets the job done. So when Nellie says Dirk hasn't improved in the post, is hogwash. And the reason it is hogwash is because Nellie hasn't put him in the post enough this year to evaluate that. And only through repetition will a player become great in the post.

See above. Dirk will NEVER be a great low-post player until he becomes heavier and stronger. He does not get position worth a durn down there. If there is a bigger guy on him instead of steve's guy who is switched, he's pretty much useless. In that case he's better out on the perimeter.

As for his defense... he might not improved that much but Nellie is playing him at a difdferent position for the first half. Did Dirk know he was going to be our center for 90% of the first half? I seriously doubt he did. And trying to learn a new position on the fly the player will struggle for awhile. But I gaurantee you this:

Dirk will not be playing center next year for the majority of minutes.

So that was because??? Raef was traded right? What's your point, should nellie have been throwing out najera (as he did) fortson (as he did) and losing games? I don't like dirk playing there either. But if you were on-board trading raef for walker then what do you have to gripe about?

[quote]
And if that is true then that means Dirk lost a year of defensive maturity because of the coach... not the player.[q/]
Good grief, dirk played two years ago predominantly as center. He currently plays whoever he matches up with better. Poor,poor dirk. His defensive (lack of) is also nellie's fault. Not his own desire, I guess.

[Bayliss]

I would AGREE that dirk and stevie played a lot of high pick and roll. That doesn't mean post to me. In fact dirks post game still lacks quite a bit IMHO. It's one of the reasons he gets his rear-end handed to him so much in there.

And he played a lot in the post. As for him getting his rear end handed to him so much... we'll disagree.

See above. Dirk will NEVER be a great low-post player until he becomes heavier and stronger. He does not get position worth a durn down there. If there is a bigger guy on him instead of steve's guy who is switched, he's pretty much useless. In that case he's better out on the perimeter.

Weight has nothing to do with it. McHale never had weight and was the best low post player ever.

So that was because??? Raef was traded right? What's your point, should nellie have been throwing out najera (as he did) fortson (as he did) and losing games? I don't like dirk playing there either. But if you were on-board trading raef for walker then what do you have to gripe about?

Good grief, dirk played two years ago predominantly as center. He currently plays whoever he matches up with better. Poor,poor dirk. His defensive (lack of) is also nellie's fault. Not his own desire, I guess.

Actually I've saying Dirk should play the power forward position for the whole year. And yes if that means playing Fortson more at center and using Bradley more then so be it. And now that we have Williams there is no reason why Dirk should play center.

As for Dirk playing center 2 years ago. He never did. Bradley/Booth was our combination when Howard was here. Dirk was a forward for that time. And when Raef came Dirk was the center. Dirk has never played center until this year.

And yes, when the coach constantly changes your position then it's a little unfair to critize the players defensive productivity. Nellie is the main reason why the Mavs do not play much defense. Because Nellie wants matchups so much that he forgets to play players where they are most comfortable. Najera struggles at center. Hmmm... is that Najera's fault? NVE struggled at shooting guard last year... is that NVE's fault? Dirk's struggled at center this year... hmmm... it couldn't be the coach asking the player to defend a position he has never defended before.

[dude1394]

And he played a lot in the post. As for him getting his rear end handed to him so much... we'll disagree.

I think I didn't make myself clear. When I say handed to him I mean hammered when he has to try and always drive to the basket because he doesn't have little shots and he doesn't get it in the post low enough. He almost always has to put it on the floor, go to the hoop and that gives the offside player a chance to hammer him. ergo "getting his rear end handed to him so much". Not getting outplayed. Sorry if this was misunderstood.

Weight has nothing to do with it. McHale never had weight and was the best low post player ever.

Are you sure about that Bayliss?? McHale looked pretty stout in there comparatively. No not shaq/malone/duncan size (today) but he looker as big as parish for example. Also your point isn't made when you pull out an outlier like mchale and his gorilla arms. In GENERAL guys who don't have bulk cannot get low-post position against stronger players. Heck that's why players DO get position against dirk/bradley for example.

So why DOESN'T he get low-post position like duncan, divac, etc.?? Nellie again??

Actually I've saying Dirk should play the power forward position for the whole year. And yes if that means playing Fortson more at center and using Bradley more then so be it. And now that we have Williams there is no reason why Dirk should play center.

As for Dirk playing center 2 years ago. He never did. Bradley/Booth was our combination when Howard was here. Dirk was a forward for that time. And when Raef came Dirk was the center. Dirk has never played center until this year.

I agree with you about dirk playing power forward. But bradley was hurt earlier and fortson was such a knucklehead that he couldn't remember what to do half of the time. But you are probably right, nellie should have played fortson even though he didn't knokw what he was doing, then dirk wouldn't have had to be so setback. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Last year dirk didn't play a lot of center. But the year before he played a LOT of center. In fact made the all-star team AS a center.

And yes, when the coach constantly changes your position then it's a little unfair to critize the players defensive productivity.

Why?? Why are basketball players different than football players who have to play multiple positions? The first think Williams said when he got here was how much he was going to have to study to learn Del's defensive playbook? I don't see why they even bothered since they don't give a crap about defense.

Najera struggles at center. Hmmm... is that Najera's fault?

No it's raef not being here and bradley being hurt and no scott williams. Even nellie admits he can't play center but it was either Fortson or Dirk (WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN TERRIBLY STUNTED) or najera. Nellie has said with the addition williams najera won't play any center. Feel better?

NVE struggled at shooting guard last year... is that NVE's fault?

Again what's your point? Did you not want nve to play at the end of games with stevie last year? Nellie just put in his best 5 players and let 'em play. Sure nick was a liability at shooting guard but so was the opponents covering him. Also there seemed to be at least one other team (kings) who have been pretty successful with two point guards. [/quote]

I know you hate nellie but at least try to understand that he doesn't have one of those cartoon jars with new players in it that he just adds water too. He has to play with who he has.

And so far he's exceeded expectations every year. Boy he sucks.

[mavsman]

Again the guy paying the bills has the right to gripe and the guys GETTING the money have a responsibility to listen to the guy PAYING the bills.

In theory, I agree as well. However, in the real world, it's more like when you're a world-class-employee, like e.g. some top-manager, marketing-guru, recording-artist or an all-star baller, you can pick where you want to work. And - equal pay provided - you might wanna work where they give you the most incentives.
I'm afraid Cuban is putting himself in a not so favorable position here when it comes to signing or re-signing international players.

[ReDIRKulous]

I'm afraid Cuban is putting himself in a not so favorable position here when it comes to signing or re-signing international players.

I was thinking of the other side of that coin... a lot of teams might not consider drafting European players because it is too risky to have to many of them... especially when they are such valuable picks. If Dirk gets hurt from all the waer and tear of the Euro games... will people look back and say that the MAvs should have picked Paul Pierce? Will Steve Nash's career be cut short by all the wear and tear? Najera may already be done.

[dude1394]

Agreed cubes is probably putting himself in a bad light. But he's not prohibiting anyone from playing, nor is nellie. I think cubes is looking however for some NBA direction here. At the very LEAST to be able to get out of luxury cap if someone goes down playing internationally.

If for example the NBA decided (just to entertaion my current theory) that only players who did not make the playoffs could play in international games unless X occurred then cubes would be off the hook..

[OutletPass]

This may be a discussion that's a bit "before it's time", actually.

I don't see things changing anytime soon....does anyone else think that it will ?

[ReDIRKulous]

The NBA is too slow to act... and they only do things when they have to. They are rarely proactive. It will take someone getting really hurt in a the international games and their career ending before that happens. The tricky part is that they would have to be injured in the international games for it to make that impact... it is much more likely they will get injured during the NBA season... but the reason for the injury will be caused by the strain of playing year round competition for multiple years.

[dude1394]

Okay... I thought you were being lazy. Let's take a team like the spurs....Here is their last game and the lineups played. San Antonio versus Houston:
Lineups:
Bowen, Parker, Nesterovic,Turkoglu, Duncan...
Ginobli comes in for Turkoglu (ok ginobli is the small forward right? or Pf? I thought Bowen was SF? I'm confused.)
Then Horry comes in for Nesterovic!! Duncan to center, horry to power forward.
Then parker goes out for charlie ward (pg I assume)
Then it's Ward, Horry, Ginobli, Turkoglu, Duncan?? I'm confused again what is turkoglu, ginoblie, Horry. I guess horry, duncan are set as pf and CENTER??
Then it's Horry, Bowen, Parker, Nestoveric, Tukoglu. Hmmm..Parker/Nesterovic are solid. But what is bowen/turkoglu/horry??
Then Bowen, Parker, Nestoveric, Tukoglu, Duncan.
Then they finish the half with Bowen, Ginobli, Parker, Nestoveric, Duncan. I'm getting really confused I thought Ginobli was a small forward not a power forward....but then Bowen alwasy plays the 3 so I guess turkoglu is the PF and ginobli is the SF, but in the first quarter he came in for turkoglu...

I'm just so confused and I don't think your theory holds water.


http://www.popcornmachine.net/cgi-bi...09&game=SASHOU

And this is the first half.

[mary]

But the same holds true if they get hurt in a car or a motorcycle accident, yet they are not forbidden to drive. The difference is: Riding a motorcycle does not improve your play, playing in international competition does. Playing in Pickups (without refs?) doesn't sound any better at all.

Yes...well when I was in Junior High my biology teacher told me I could get pregnant if I swam in a pond naked.

Lets stop pretending like playing in pick up games entails the same amount of risk as international play. Did you happen to watch any of the international competition this year? I certainly did - and it was brutal. The refs simply do a poor job officiating the game. If I recall correctly, Nash himself complained in the press last summer that the games were too physical and that the officiating was subpar.

Again, I'm not opposed to players participating in the Olympics, I just don't believe their contracts should be guaranteed. If this rule were changed, would there be owners out there willing to use it as a bargaining chip? I highly doubt it. Individual owners benefit very little from the Olympics even if, as you claim, it boosts international jersey sales.

Yes, this issue obviously breeds a bone of contention between Cuban and his international players, specifically Dirk. I think Dirk is an amazing human being and basketball player, and I hope he is in a Mavericks uniform until the day he retires. As our franchise player, I hope he's always happy playing in Dallas..... but my "fandome" for Dirk doesn't change what I believe is the right thing to do.

[mavsman]

Did you happen to watch any of the international competition this year? I certainly did - and it was brutal. The refs simply do a poor job officiating the game.

No, I didn't see any international competition this year, there hasn't been any involving national teams in Europe this far. But I sure have seen a few hundreds of games in the stands in the last couple of years and I can assure you that I've never seen anything like a Malone-elbow-to-the-face in any of that games. There's a reason they call those Europeans "soft" and "finesse". You don't see much of the brutality you see in pickup games involving amateurs or in NBA games.

[mary]

Originally posted by: mavsman

No, I didn't see any international competition this year, there hasn't been any involving national teams in Europe this far. But I sure have seen a few hundreds of games in the stands in the last couple of years and I can assure you that I've never seen anything like a Malone-elbow-to-the-face in any of that games. There's a reason they call those Europeans "soft" and "finesse". You don't see much of the brutality you see in pickup games involving amateurs or in NBA games.

Sorry, what I meant was last summer during the Americas or Euro tournaments. I can't speak for the EURO games, but the Americas tournament was absolutely physical - no question about it.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: mary



Again, I'm not opposed to players participating in the Olympics, I just don't believe their contracts should be guaranteed. If this rule were changed, would there be owners out there willing to use it as a bargaining chip? I highly doubt it. Individual owners benefit very little from the Olympics even if, as you claim, it boosts international jersey sales.

You mean make getting hurt in the Olympics should be like getting hurt riding a motorcycle or skydiving or other activities currently prohibited in most standard NBA contracts? I certainly agree that this would be a big motivator for players not to play international ball. If you stood to lose, say 50 million dollars if you got hurt, how likely would you be to play international games? Even counting the extra dollars from Tshirt sales, you would still come out a big loser.

[mary]

Yes, LRB that is pretty much what I'm saying.

I don't think playing in the Olympics should be explicitly prohibited (like motorcycles, sky diving, etc.), but I believe if an athelete gets injured during international play, the outcome should be the same.

If that were the case, I believe all countries involved would have a hard time stocking their teams with NBA professionals.

[Murphy3]

I could definitely live with that.