11-06-2012, 02:53 PM
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#1
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,255
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Darren Collison discussion thread
I certainly wasn't going to extend the life after Collison thread so I thought I'd start this.
8 to 1 a/to ratio so far. Yummy. He really paces himself well. Uses his quickness wisely versus all of the time. Very sneaky scorer.
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
Last edited by DevinHarriswillstart; 11-06-2012 at 02:54 PM.
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11-06-2012, 03:09 PM
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#2
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Moderator
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Two double-doubles in a row just four games into the season...
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These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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11-06-2012, 03:19 PM
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#3
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lazytown
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He's by far the biggest reason I'm tuning into games right now.
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11-06-2012, 03:46 PM
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#4
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
He's by far the biggest reason I'm tuning into games right now.
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So the Mavs playing a game aren't enough of a reason, eh?
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ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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11-06-2012, 03:52 PM
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#5
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Platinum Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,675
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Simply brilliant.
All we need to improve is our defense and rebounding. Once we get better in those areas...watch out.
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11-06-2012, 04:41 PM
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#6
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus1234
All we need to improve is our defense and rebounding.
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I have a feeling that this sentiment will be a familiar tune by season's end...
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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11-06-2012, 08:00 PM
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#7
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus1234
Simply brilliant.
All we need to improve is our defense and rebounding. Once we get better in those areas...watch out.
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I think we're 7th so far when it comes to defensive rebounding, and like 10th in defensive rating? Or something like that, couldn't find the stats, point is, we're actually decent. Then again, small sample size, and that 3rd quarter against the Jazz was just absolutely brutal. So yeah, we are obviously capable of playing much worse than the average we showed so far, both offensively, and defensively. Gotta stay consistent, that's always the biggest thing for every team.
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11-06-2012, 05:07 PM
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#8
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Platinum Member
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(I hope) Dirk will help us a lot here.
Guy does not jump "anymore", but he creates space for our team to rebound the ball. There was a great analysis about Dirk's (very underrated) impact on rebounding compared to Kevin Love. Too bad i can't find it.
Defense is a different story though. Do not count on Dirk here, lol.
Last edited by markus1234; 11-06-2012 at 05:16 PM.
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11-06-2012, 07:52 PM
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#9
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Platinum Member
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He's by far better than anything i was expecting, but it's a very small sample size. Hopefully he can keep this up. Same with Mayo. With Dirk back, they'll have even more space to create for others, and themselves.
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11-06-2012, 10:35 PM
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#10
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus1234
(I hope) Dirk will help us a lot here.
Guy does not jump "anymore", but he creates space for our team to rebound the ball. There was a great analysis about Dirk's (very underrated) impact on rebounding compared to Kevin Love. Too bad i can't find it.
Defense is a different story though. Do not count on Dirk here, lol.
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Which is weird, because to me, Dirk is a much less talented rebounder but miles ahead of Love as a defensive player.
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11-06-2012, 09:47 PM
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#11
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Guru
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He is going against Calderon tomorrow, Lowry had an ugly injury and should be out a few weeks
http://twitpic.com/baz115
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11-06-2012, 11:52 PM
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#12
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Especially when guarding his man straight up.. I don't have issue with Dirk's defense.
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11-16-2012, 09:54 PM
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#13
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
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DC looks lost out there right now. He just isn't making enough plays for his teammates.
Add to that he has stopped attacking the rim with the all out abandon that marked the first few games of the season.
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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11-16-2012, 10:04 PM
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#14
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Golden Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Never Never Land
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike
DC looks lost out there right now. He just isn't making enough plays for his teammates.
Add to that he has stopped attacking the rim with the all out abandon that marked the first few games of the season.
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He better snap out of whatever his problem is or he will just confirm why he was replaced then traded by the very team that kicked our aces tonight
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We ran like a simple play, and usually the ball doesn’t come get me until later. So I just trotted through the play and I looked to the ball, and it was already right there in my face. … He sees the floor so well and sometimes he throws the ball and we don’t see it. He’s liable to really throw anything.” Dirk
Kidd to Dirk is the present day Stockton to Malone.
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11-16-2012, 09:55 PM
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#15
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Is he tired?
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"Dirk Nowitzki is now a household name in every locker room in this world.
You say it in Brazil, you say Dirk, they know Nowitzki. You say it in China,
they know Nowitzki. Kobe, Michael, DIRK." - Jeff Van Gundy
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11-16-2012, 10:03 PM
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#16
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Guru
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Teams scout and take away what works. How was he being aggressive? The team got stops and that allowed them to run. He's a league leader for FB points. If you don't defend, you can't run like you want to.
You also have to remember he's only 25 and still working to learn the point guard position. He's like Roddy, but a little more developed. It's going to take work and time.
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11-16-2012, 10:05 PM
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#17
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Guru
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^Yeah a better Roddy is exactly what I see. Still those mental lapses though. Uncle Ricky gots some workin' to do.
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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11-16-2012, 10:11 PM
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#18
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Platinum Member
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It is a vicious circle. Collison needs stops and fast break situations, but his (and MAVS) defense is not good enough.
Last edited by markus1234; 11-16-2012 at 10:12 PM.
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11-16-2012, 10:12 PM
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#19
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The losing streak and the stupid losses killed his confidence
Entire offense is a mess with several guys in shooting slumps
And well, it was clear he wouldnt keep the level of play of his first games
We just have to wait for Dirk. Then its an entire new team anyway and Collison/Mayo are the guys that gonna profit the most. I think it will be also really good for Collison to have a late shotclock/broken play bailout option in Dirk..
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11-16-2012, 10:18 PM
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#20
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefant77
The losing streak and the stupid losses killed his confidence..
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I'm not saying that "I know" that's right, but it sure does seem like he is playing tentatively...and that is NO way to be a successful PG in the Big Leagues.
Obviously, his game will be helped tremendously when #41 returns, but I have been disappointed by his play these last 5 games or so.
I thought he was a young "leader" type...but he just looks deflated.
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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11-17-2012, 01:16 PM
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#21
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 75
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I imagine if Kidd stayed and Collison was a option for your bench... we just won the Knicks yesterday and Kidd show some flashs of his brilliance. The guy can defend so well, is a great passer and can make those 3s... just a vet savvy player. He could be the difference between be a contender or just make the playoffs and some wins there.
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11-17-2012, 05:05 PM
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#22
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Guru
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Its not 2011 anymore.
And sample size
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11-17-2012, 05:43 PM
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#23
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Austin
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Once chris Paul is locked in long term as a Clipper, I hope the Mavs can find a way to get Eric Bledsoe next summer as their PG of the future. Collison is a decent player. He is probably nothing more than a borderline starter/rotation player on a good NBA team.
Last edited by sig; 11-17-2012 at 05:45 PM.
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11-17-2012, 08:24 PM
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#24
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 378
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DoJo looks like the best PG option right now even though he should be called Do-O...
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11-19-2012, 11:38 PM
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#25
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
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So It's starting to look like Darren Collison can't defend.
*Which is a serious problem with all the scoring PGs in the West.
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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11-19-2012, 11:39 PM
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#26
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
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I hope I never have to say this again, but I wish we'd stuck with Dojo tonight.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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11-19-2012, 11:41 PM
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#27
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
I hope I never have to say this again, but I wish we'd stuck with Dojo tonight.
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Dojo was getting punked by Curry as well though, no?
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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11-19-2012, 11:44 PM
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#28
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike
Dojo was getting punked by Curry as well though, no?
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Yeah, but he was playing with more intensity and seemed to be a lot more effective on offense. Collison couldn't get anything going tonight.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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11-19-2012, 11:46 PM
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#29
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
Yeah, but he was playing with more intensity and seemed to be a lot more effective on offense. Collison couldn't get anything going for most of the last 2 weeks.
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fixed
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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11-19-2012, 11:50 PM
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#30
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike
fixed
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Yeah, I don't know why he's been in such a funk lately, but he needs to snap out of it double-quick.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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11-20-2012, 10:43 AM
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#31
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
I hope I never have to say this again, but I wish we'd stuck with Dojo tonight.
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I get that you mean you don't want Collison to suck, but I don't care for anyone to toss any gas on Dojo for playing well. He earned the right to finish the game but got pulled for more trash play from Collison. He is not the player he was the first few games of the season. He can't run a simple pick n roll, although unfortunately most of the picks are poor. He can't set his man up very well in that situation. I still hold a little hope for him when Dirk gets back but he needs to be playing a lot better regardless.
Dojo on the other hand is gaining confidence and showing much better point guard skills. I still believe that his shooting will improve with his confidence.
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11-20-2012, 10:34 AM
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#32
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Collison and his ball(lately)
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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11-20-2012, 10:59 AM
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#33
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Lazy Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Let's take it easy on Dojo showing "much better PG skills". He was terrible in the first half. He was an absolute bright spot in the second half, no doubt. But I think it's easy to overstate the comparison when one player is a starter playing disappointingly, and one is a scrub that we expected absolutely nothing from, who is now contributing here and there at times. The natural inclination is to want more and more from the surprising player, but it's easy to overexpose them.
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11-20-2012, 11:45 AM
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#34
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
Let's take it easy on Dojo showing "much better PG skills". He was terrible in the first half. He was an absolute bright spot in the second half, no doubt. But I think it's easy to overstate the comparison when one player is a starter playing disappointingly, and one is a scrub that we expected absolutely nothing from, who is now contributing here and there at times. The natural inclination is to want more and more from the surprising player, but it's easy to overexpose them.
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You don't think Dojo has been showing "much better PG skills" than he has in the past? He is actually playing well more often than not, when previously he hasn't even really been usable.
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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11-20-2012, 11:51 AM
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#35
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Lazy Moderator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC0007
You don't think Dojo has been showing "much better PG skills" than he has in the past? He is actually playing well more often than not, when previously he hasn't even really been usable.
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Ah, I thought you meant "much better" in comparison to Collison, not to Dojo on the past. Yes, I would say Dojo has looked better. I don't know that I agree with "playing well more often than not", as even last night he had a really rough first half before playing well the second half.
I'm glad that Dojo is starting to look like he might belong on an NBA roster, in some capacity. But I'm not ever going to call for him to finish games or Collison. Collison is still young (he's only a year older than Dojo) and needs those experiences to learn. This isn't a title contender that should be fighting and clawing for every win. Our main goal this season is to figure out who from this temporary core can be built upon long term. Part of that process is allowing Collison to fail and see if he improves.
Last edited by jthig32; 11-20-2012 at 11:52 AM.
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11-20-2012, 12:37 PM
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#36
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jthig32
Ah, I thought you meant "much better" in comparison to Collison, not to Dojo on the past. Yes, I would say Dojo has looked better. I don't know that I agree with "playing well more often than not", as even last night he had a really rough first half before playing well the second half.
I'm glad that Dojo is starting to look like he might belong on an NBA roster, in some capacity. But I'm not ever going to call for him to finish games or Collison. Collison is still young (he's only a year older than Dojo) and needs those experiences to learn. This isn't a title contender that should be fighting and clawing for every win. Our main goal this season is to figure out who from this temporary core can be built upon long term. Part of that process is allowing Collison to fail and see if he improves.
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Well I personally agree that this isn't a title contender, but as long as Dirk is here we need to be clawing for every win to stay in the playoff picture and see what shakes out in the end. If not, why is he here?
I also agree that we need to figure out who can be build upon going forward and that failure along the way is part of the process, but I don't think the first priority is to figure out who is a staple at the cost of losses in tight games.
Get the wins you can even if you have to scratch and claw, and learn the best way to do so until our superhero comes back. If you present RC with, 'if you leave Dojo in the game we finish with a win', he takes that 10/10 times and worries about what Collison learned from it later. (Not saying that would have been the case.)
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11-20-2012, 11:10 AM
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#37
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I would be very interested to know how much work on his shot dojo has been doing. I would wager not as much as he should. It's been three years now and he still cannot shoot a lick.
He'll be out of the league next year I expect. Roddy also probably.
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11-20-2012, 12:25 PM
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#38
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Guru
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Still stick with it: Collison is a more developed and healthier Roddy. That being said, there are major growing pains DC has to go through. He's having to be the point guard of a team that has major playoff implications and has one elite weapon. There will be two additional weapons that can be effective. It's a lot of responsibility for him and he's going to struggle along the way.
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11-20-2012, 03:45 PM
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#39
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 5,502
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Collison annoyed me last night. This is the NBA, and everyone has a bad game. If you're 6'1 and you can't hit a jumper then you should be trying to use your speed and get to the rim. Or you should be trying to get to the line. And don't even get me started with his atrocious defense on Steph Curry. Yes, Steph is a beast but Collison played him so softly it was only a matter of time before Steph got hot and lit us up. That kid has a lot of work to do, it's sad that now Dojo can come into the game and outplay him.
What I want to see from Collison is intensity. I want to see that he's giving his all out there. Work hard to create for yourself and others. Make the right passes. Attack the rim when it's there. And I want to see decisiveness from him. I hate watching him dribble for 8 seconds, get a screen, go away from the screen, and then pass the ball to another teammate. That shxt has no purpose. I know what he's capable of and so does he, so he needs to get his mind right.
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11-20-2012, 08:52 PM
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#40
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Golden Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Never Never Land
Posts: 1,056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSMF
Collison annoyed me last night. This is the NBA, and everyone has a bad game. If you're 6'1 and you can't hit a jumper then you should be trying to use your speed and get to the rim. Or you should be trying to get to the line. And don't even get me started with his atrocious defense on Steph Curry. Yes, Steph is a beast but Collison played him so softly it was only a matter of time before Steph got hot and lit us up. That kid has a lot of work to do, it's sad that now Dojo can come into the game and outplay him.
What I want to see from Collison is intensity. I want to see that he's giving his all out there. Work hard to create for yourself and others. Make the right passes. Attack the rim when it's there. And I want to see decisiveness from him. I hate watching him dribble for 8 seconds, get a screen, go away from the screen, and then pass the ball to another teammate. That shxt has no purpose. I know what he's capable of and so does he, so he needs to get his mind right.
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+rep...well said
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We ran like a simple play, and usually the ball doesn’t come get me until later. So I just trotted through the play and I looked to the ball, and it was already right there in my face. … He sees the floor so well and sometimes he throws the ball and we don’t see it. He’s liable to really throw anything.” Dirk
Kidd to Dirk is the present day Stockton to Malone.
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