Learning From The Master - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

MavsFanFinley · 12-07-2003, 11:20 PM

Learning from the master (12/8)
Clippers' Dunleavy among coaches influenced by Nelson

Sunday, December 7, 2003
By CHUCK CARLTON / The Dallas Morning News

Mike Dunleavy's background screams basketball lifer, the hard-working New York gym rat who moved into a successful coaching career.

Without prodding from Mavericks coach Don Nelson, Dunleavy could be checking the bond futures on Wall Street today instead of trying to lead the Los Angeles Clippers to respectability.

In the process, Dunleavy became part of the unofficial Nellie alumni, a group that either played for Nelson or worked under him before gaining prominence.

The group also includes San Antonio coach Gregg Popovich, who has won two NBA titles; Houston's Jeff Van Gundy; and successful college coach Rick Majerus of Utah.

Popovich said coaching under Nelson is a great learning experience for a young coach. Nelson is one victory behind Pat Riley (1,110) for second place on the all-time coaching wins list, and is nearing 3,000 games combined as a player and a coach at 2,996.

"Nellie is a consummate manipulator of the game," Popovich said. "He understands the rules, he understands pro athletes, he knows how to mix and match these guys, he knows how to take advantage of things.

"And he's a heck of a lot of fun to be around at the same time. In the two years I was with him, I loved it. We had a great time."

Van Gundy, who replaced Nelson with the New York Knicks, remembers Nelson letting him run the defense as an assistant and never pointing fingers after losses.

"Nellie is very complimentary," Van Gundy said. "On those nights we couldn't stop anybody, he never said it was me. So I appreciate the compliment. I learned more from him than he did from me."

Dunleavy learned that he wanted to stay in basketball, after a period of uncertainty.

He retired following a 10-year playing career in 1985 because of a back injury and went to work in New York's financial industry.

But he kept in touch with Nelson, his coach the final two seasons in Milwaukee. Dunleavy still followed the game. The two would talk regularly, and Dunleavy would see Nelson when the Bucks came to town.

"He told me, 'You're wasting your time on Wall Street. You ought to coach. Why don't you come work for me?' "

Dunleavy hesitated. He worried about his back, and about travel. Two years later, the Bucks were playing in New Jersey, and he went out to dinner with Nelson and assistant coach Del Harris.

"Look, let me know if you have another opening," Dunleavy told Nelson. "I might do it this time."

Nelson responded that Majerus was leaving as an assistant to take the head coaching job at Ball State.

A coaching career was born, with a twist.

Dunleavy came on the scene, ironically, just as Nelson was leaving Milwaukee.

When Harris became the head coach in 1987, Dunleavy continued as an assistant and was eventually named coach of the Los Angeles Lakers in 1990.

When he faces Nelson and Dallas on Wednesday in Los Angeles, the connection will remain.

"He kept throwing the bait out there trying to reel me in," Dunleavy said, smiling. "Finally, I jumped in the boat – and he jumped out."

EricaLubarsky · 12-07-2003, 11:45 PM

*sigh* these pro-Nelson articles make you respect a guy who is going to eaily pull 35 games ahead of Riley for second most wins in NBA history this season. He's taught other up and comers and he has inspired young guys like Musselman. The only criticism you can have of Nelson is that, well...

he's often the bridesmaid and has yet to be the bride...he's figured out the NBA game, but he has yet to figure out how to win a championship.

ReDIRKulous · 12-07-2003, 11:58 PM

I believe Nellie is TOO good of a coach. He was able to make bad teams play good which never allowed him to get that big man in the draft he always needed. People might say that he had his oppurtunity with Ewing... but Van Gundy couldn't win the championship with Ewing playing conventionally... who knows what might have happend if Ewing had tried to adapt to Nellie's system?

EricaLubarsky · 12-08-2003, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: ReDIRKulous
I believe Nellie is TOO good of a coach. He was able to make bad teams play good which never allowed him to get that big man in the draft he always needed. People might say that he had his oppurtunity with Ewing... but Van Gundy couldn't win the championship with Ewing playing conventionally... who knows what might have happend if Ewing had tried to adapt to Nellie's system?

He knows how to rebuild, and to keep up a winning record, but he has yet to show that he can take it all.

Im happy with a winning team that is competitive and fun to watch but if you are looking for a championship, he has yet to prove that he has what it takes to make an elite team THE best. He has not yet taken a team out of the finals.

ReDIRKulous · 12-08-2003, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Im happy with a winning team that is competitive and fun to watch but if you are looking for a championship, he has yet to prove that he has what it takes to make an elite team THE best. He has not yet taken a team out of the finals.

That is dangerous logic you are using though. By that logic you can only replace Nellie with someone that has won a championship. But just because someone has won a championship doesn't mean they will win another one. Pat Riley is a perfect example of this.

BTW... It hought he made an elite team the best last season... the only problem is that the rules and the style of play encouraged by the NBA don't cater to the best besketball imo.

MavKikiNYC · 12-08-2003, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: ReDIRKulous
I believe Nellie is TOO good of a coach. He was able to make bad teams play good which never allowed him to get that big man in the draft he always needed. People might say that he had his oppurtunity with Ewing... but Van Gundy couldn't win the championship with Ewing playing conventionally...

Actually JVG's NYKs lost the championship to the Spurs with an aged Ewing on the bench due to an Achilles injury.

Quote:

...who knows what might have happend if Ewing had tried to adapt to Nellie's system?

Speculation: Ewing might've faded into oblivion 4-5 years sooner.

kingrex · 12-08-2003, 10:23 AM

I'm with Erica on this. The facts can never lie. He has rebuilt many teams, and have built them to the point of being strong playoff teams, but he has yet to find the key to winning a championship. I'm not sure why he hasn't, but some theories include:

1) He doesn't motivate his guys. Some have said that when it comes to big games his guys aren't properly motivated. They tend to back-off against tougher teams. One example was last year when NVE expressed his now famous "f'em" statement, it took him to light a fire under the team to show some fight.

2) His methods are too unconventional. Some have also criticized Nelson for doing too much tinkering with his line-up. He can't seem to help but come up with the most unorthodox line-ups just for the sake of innovation. An example of this is his obsession with "small ball". This was the case in Golden State and it is oftenly used in Dallas now.

3) He is obsessed with the big white center. If it wasnt' for Dirk, it seems that Nelson's love for tall white players would have proven to be his hubris. From Bradley to Bruno Sundov to Chris Antsey, Nelson seems too enamored with bringing a tall white center to this team.

I'm not sure what exactly it is, but Nelson's "greatness" as a coach will always be debated unless he wins the big one.

FreshJive · 12-08-2003, 03:02 PM

It takes more than just a good coach to win a championship. You have to also have the best players and usually this means having THE best player. To my knowledge Nellie has never had the best squad in the NBA. He had some great teams in Milwaukee, but He had to go through Bird and Magic to win a championship. No big surprise that he wasn't able to. No one can actually tell me they think that Chris Mullin should have lead GS to a title and Nellie just screwed it up. Phil Jackson had MJ and now Shaq. Riley had Magic Johnson and since then he hasn't done jacksh*& without him. Most NBA coaches are good enough to win a championship if they have the best player in the league on thier team.

FreshJive · 12-08-2003, 03:17 PM

Quote:

) He is obsessed with the big white center. If it wasnt' for Dirk, it seems that Nelson's love for tall white players would have proven to be his hubris. From Bradley to Bruno Sundov to Chris Antsey, Nelson seems too enamored with bringing a tall white center to this team.

This is BS. It just shows Nellie's obsession with untapped resources. Bradley was Nellie's second attempt to harness the power of the freakishly tall oddity that no one else was intertested in. His first attempt was Manut Bol who was in fact a very dark black man. The rest of the guys you mention fall into Nellie's obsession of tapping the foreign talent base which at the time was virtually unexplored. Now that the rest of the league has caught on and are drafting the foreign players early (high school as well), Nellie decided to look to the college players to find our newest rookie and it seems to have been a good strategy.

dude1394 · 12-08-2003, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Actually JVG's NYKs lost the championship to the Spurs with an aged Ewing on the bench due to an Achilles injury.

Wow pretty much the same thing happened last year to nellie didn't it. since the spurs/mavs was the championship.

MavKikiNYC · 12-08-2003, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394

Quote:

Actually JVG's NYKs lost the championship to the Spurs with an aged Ewing on the bench due to an Achilles injury.

Wow pretty much the same thing happened last year to nellie didn't it. since the spurs/mavs was the championship.

Well, no. Not really anything like it. ReDirkulous's (or somesuch's) contention was that JVG couldn't win a championship with Ewing playing conventionally. The NYKs lined up against the Spurs without any possibility of Ewing's being available at all because he was injured.

And to go a little further, the NYKs lost that series against the Spurs playing a Nelliesque style of uptempo, racehorse style of ball, with Gumby Camby at C and Sprewell at SF due to the injury to Ewing.

So, not only is the contention that the NYKs didn't win playing a conventional style of ball inaccurate, it denies the fact that they LOST playing a version of Nellie-ball.

And finally, it's beyond tiresome to whine that the WCF is the real championship. It ain't. The Mavericks would still have had to beat the Nets last year if they'd beaten the Spurs, a proposition which may've been a lot less certain than most people around would like to believe.

dude1394 · 12-08-2003, 09:08 PM

Quote:

he's often the bridesmaid and has yet to be the bride...he's figured out the NBA game, but he has yet to figure out how to win a championship.

PPPSSSSTTTT... I'll give you a hint. Have the best player... That'll do it.

Evilmav2 · 12-09-2003, 03:10 AM

Big Don says: I Am The Master...

FreshJive · 12-09-2003, 03:30 AM

Did Mavs Kiki just say the Bills had a legitimate shot at winning a Super Bowl? Ha
The Nets had no chance.

I'm curious Mavs Kiki which Nellie team you think ought to have won a championship.

FreshJive · 12-09-2003, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Evilmav2

Big Don says: I Am The Master...

Nellie looks like a homosexual dominatrix with the 'stache and the Vader costume, not to mention the look on his face.

MavKikiNYC · 12-09-2003, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FreshJive

Quote:

Originally posted by: Evilmav2

Big Don says: I Am The Master...

Nellie looks like a homosexual dominatrix with the 'stache and the Vader costume, not to mention the look on his face.

Isn't a dominatrix, by definition, a woman? So Nellie looks like a lesbian leather mama? Maybe a little. With them moustache.

But he mainly looks like a garden-variety skeezy hetero perv, who won't coach defense.

FreshJive · 12-09-2003, 03:57 PM

Yeah well I'm really not up on all the proper lingo and definitions of the different sexual deviants. I think since gay people refer to each other as queens then the term dominatrix should be able to be applied androgenously without confusion. Leave it to Mavs Kiki to make sure us rednecks down here in Texas don't offend anyone with are ignorance of the whips and chains crowd.

Evilmav2 · 12-09-2003, 03:51 AM

Nelson has never had the big guns to win a championship (although the aborted Webber/Sprewell/Mullin/Hardaway/Gatling/Seikaly/Owens Warriors might have eventually provided that shot), but he has become the third winningest coach in NBA history- he'll be tied for the two spot after this Wednesday- by getting the most out of the moderate to good talent on his past teams. Big Don is due for another ring, and this Mavs team will end up being his last, and very best shot at aquiring that piece of coaching jewelry...

Evilmav2 · 12-09-2003, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Nellie looks like a homosexual dominatrix with the 'stache and the Vader costume, not to mention the look on his face.

Big Don says: I'm glad you appreciate my costume so much, Mr. FreshJive...

FreshJive · 12-09-2003, 04:35 AM

Maybe I missed the original intent of I am the Master. I think I may have dryly explained your very creative joke with my redundant post.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]

Evilmav2 · 12-09-2003, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FreshJive
Maybe I missed the original intent of I am the Master. I think I may have dryly explained your very creative joke with my redundant post.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img]

Nah, the real intent was signified by my being amused by the title of this thread, while I was fooling around and learning to use Adobe Photoshop 7...

The Fiercesome Wang-Baboon Knows No Master!

Simon2 · 12-09-2003, 08:44 AM

"Nellie is very complimentary," Van Gundy said. "On those nights we couldn't stop anybody, he never said it was me. So I appreciate the compliment. I learned more from him than he did from me."

Nellie didn't get mad because defense wasn't/isn't his concern.