When West and Haywood come back...

[mavs777]

Mavs will obviously have a ton more options I love Rick but it's time to stop using the Kidd/VC backcourt it doesn't work on either end. Evertime VC is on the floor (whether at 2 or 3) I think West or Roddy have to be, also would be nice if he stops shooting so jump shots. Haywood is going to be such an added pressence if you have been focusing on center defense (as I have) you can tell Ian has been beyond bad defensivly when penetration is headed his way. Also no more Odom/Dirk lineups and hopefully when they return much less Odom on the floor.

Ideal rotation
PG: Kidd 28/West 14/ Jet 6
SG: West 16/Jet 20/Roddy 12
SF: Marion 32/Vince 16
PF: Dirk 36/ Lamar 12
C: Haywood 32/Mahinmi/Wright 16

[Kante]

Like i said, most of the struggling is because West is injured. Brought so much to the table, damn.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by Kante

Like i said, most of the struggling is because West is injured. Brought so much to the table, damn.

No he didn't. Thing is, our offense sucks all year long, no matter who plays. That's the sad reality about our offense. We were able to win games thanks to our defense, which went to absolute s**t, once Haywood was out. Our offense won't improve, unless numerous players starts to play better, and Haywood can be a more effective screener.

If you guys really think West will be a difference maker, that tells me 2 things, you didn't watch our games carefully enough when he was playing, and/or we're in a really sad state.

The guy had a handful of good games this year, and has basically the same scoring numbers (on volume, and effectiveness as well) as Roddy, virtually giving out the same assist per game PER36, with slightly more turnovers. I would also argue that Roddy played better defense this year. Now don't get me wrong, i'm not saying Roddy was great, what i'm saying West is basically giving us the same painfully average production from the guard spot, even as a PG. If you really think we're gonna be a much better team because of Delonte freakin' West, well, as i said, we're really in a sad state at the moment.

[Kante]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

No he didn't. Thing is, our offense sucks all year long, no matter who plays. That's the sad reality about our offense. We were able to win games thanks to our defense, which went to absolute s**t, once Haywood was out. Our offense won't improve, unless numerous players starts to play better, and Haywood can be a more effective screener.

If you guys really think West will be a difference maker, that tells me 2 things, you didn't watch our games carefully enough when he was playing, and/or we're in a really sad state.

The guy had a handful of good games this year, and has basically the same scoring numbers (on volume, and effectiveness as well) as Roddy, virtually giving out the same assist per game PER36, with slightly more turnovers. I would also argue that Roddy played better defense this year. Now don't get me wrong, i'm not saying Roddy was great, what i'm saying West is basically giving us the same painfully average production from the guard spot, even as a PG. If you really think we're gonna be a much better team because of Delonte freakin' West, well, as i said, we're really in a sad state at the moment.

The rotations were better. He coverd the quick PG's = Marion does not have to = More energy on offense. He did score the ball pretty well, assuming the overall offense is/was not the best.

He started and allowed Carter to back up Marion, so yes, i think the Mavs really need him!

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

No he didn't. Thing is, our offense sucks all year long, no matter who plays.

West was OK, but Dirk played really bad, that's why we sucked on offense. Now Dirk is finally "Dirk".

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

If you guys really think West will be a difference maker, that tells me 2 things, you didn't watch our games carefully enough when he was playing, and/or we're in a really sad state.

We're 4-9 since Delonte (our ONLY PG aside from Kidd) went down with his injury...

Define "difference-maker."

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by Underdog

We're 4-9 since Delonte (our ONLY PG aside from Kidd) went down with his injury...

Define "difference-maker."

You're obviously not saying we lost those games, because Delonte wasn't playing, do you? Also, i would be careful about that PG-label. Delonte West is a PG-sized combo guard. If he's a point guard, then Roddy, and JET are point guards as well. Just look at West's PER36 assist numbers in his career, and his pedestrian assist per turnover ratio.

Delonte is as combo, as a player can be. JET actually had seasons where he averaged 8 assists. Stats say West is combo, eye test says the same. But let's forget that for a moment, what i wanna ask, why do you think he's such a difference maker for us? You certainly don't think Roddy is a difference maker, because he's not. Yet, he gives us virtually the same production than West, almost the same assist numbers, same scoring efficiency, while scoring a little more, with a little less turnovers.

And i could argue, he's playing better defense, and has probably a higher PER. Again, this is not so much about Roddy, but the fact that you guys are waiting for West like he's some kind of savior, when in reality, he doesn't give us anything this year Roddy or JET can't give. Which is... Pretty average. Our rotations can improve, yes, we get back our depth, but individually, West aren't gonna make us better. Haywood is just so much more important for this team.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

You're obviously not saying we lost those games, because Delonte wasn't playing, do you? Also, i would be careful about that PG-label. Delonte West is a PG-sized combo guard. If he's a point guard, then Roddy, and JET are point guards as well. Just look at West's PER36 assist numbers in his career, and his pedestrian assist per turnover ratio.

In this case, PG = "guy who can run an offense." Terry can't, Roddy can't, DoJo can't. West is the only guy aside from Kidd who can, and that's become painfully obvious with our lack of ball movement in the last couple weeks.

Also, there's the issue of rotations that jOShi brings up in the above post.

If you don't think West is a difference-maker on this team, then explain to me why we went from 19-11 with him to an overall record of 23-20 without him...

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

No he didn't. Thing is, our offense sucks all year long, no matter who plays. That's the sad reality about our offense. We were able to win games thanks to our defense, which went to absolute s**t, once Haywood was out. Our offense won't improve, unless numerous players starts to play better, and Haywood can be a more effective screener.

If you guys really think West will be a difference maker, that tells me 2 things, you didn't watch our games carefully enough when he was playing, and/or we're in a really sad state.

The guy had a handful of good games this year, and has basically the same scoring numbers (on volume, and effectiveness as well) as Roddy, virtually giving out the same assist per game PER36, with slightly more turnovers. I would also argue that Roddy played better defense this year. Now don't get me wrong, i'm not saying Roddy was great, what i'm saying West is basically giving us the same painfully average production from the guard spot, even as a PG. If you really think we're gonna be a much better team because of Delonte freakin' West, well, as i said, we're really in a sad state at the moment.

Great point. If everyone in the locker room is waiting on Delonte West to bring them some wins, we are definitely in a sad state. Yeah he's an extra consistent body, but he wasnt doing anything off the charts.

We're riding this ship all the way til the end. 36-30 to end the season. Hopefully thats a seed in the playoffs.

[j0Shi]

Funny how things turn out over a season. Haywood is underappreciated all the way, because you always think of Tyson in the back of your head. West not only has played well, but allows the Mavs to use much more lineups that are favorable. Move Carter to the backup 3, relieve him and Marion of big minutes and stuff.

I disagree on JET as point though. West should entirely backup Kidd and then you have the option to adjust playing times between Terry and Roddy depending on who's playing better.

[markus1234]

Haywood is great but his health is very shaky. Minor things can stop him for days and weeks An ankle sprain, lower back, knee issue...and he might be done for a whole playoff series. Like last year vs. MIA.

He is not a quick healer, that's for sure.


ps:

Ideal rotation
PG: Kidd 20/West 24/ Jet 4
SG: West 10/Jet 28/Roddy 10
SF: Marion 32/Vince 16
PF: Dirk 36/ Wright 12
C: Haywood 32/Mahinmi/Wright 16

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Haywood is great but his health is very shaky. Minor things can stop him for days and weeks An ankle sprain, lower back, knee issue...and he might be done for a whole playoff series. Like last year vs. MIA.

He is not a quick healer, that's for sure.


ps:

Ideal rotation
PG: Kidd 20/West 24/ Jet 4
SG: West 10/Jet 28/Roddy 10
SF: Marion 32/Vince 16
PF: Dirk 36/ Wright 12
C: Haywood 32/Mahinmi/Wright 16

He's not a quick much of anything. See the lack of jump balls won. I don't know when was the last time I've seen dirk ask to touch the ball after a tip. I wonder if he will still ask for it if we win a tip, it's been so long.

[LSMF]

Originally Posted by dude1394

He's not a quick much of anything. See the lack of jump balls won. I don't know when was the last time I've seen dirk ask to touch the ball after a tip. I wonder if he will still ask for it if we win a tip, it's been so long.

Have we even won a jump ball this season? I really don't think we have.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by LSMF

Have we even won a jump ball this season? I really don't think we have.

I pay pretty close attention. I remember one in the arena. Our little section actually raised a cheer.

[j0Shi]

I consider West one of these role-players from which two should have a good game per night to make us competitive. Of course that requires the core (Dirk, Terry, Kidd, Marion, Haywood) to have a good game every night. And that's not the case either.

But I think West has matched my requirements better than anyone.

[j0Shi]

The point about West is clearly that he allows them to play lineups that have worked well so far this season. He changes the whole dynamic of the rotation for the better.

The discussions are always the same. Take JJB, Roddy, West, who have always and will always be criticized, because they can't run the team like a true point (on this board, it's pretty much summed up with "nobody besides Kidd can get the ball to Dirk").

But we had success with a score-first backup last year, so what? We don't need a "true" backup point.

[adonis]

West and Haywood's main contributions are defense. Our defense has been atrocious without the two and that's the reason we're 2-8.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by adonis

West and Haywood's main contributions are defense. Our defense has been atrocious without the two and that's the reason we're 2-8.

No, Haywood's missing presence what made our defense fold (and team chemistry+schedule) anything West does on the defensive end, Roddy can do just as well, joshi keep giving you guys the proof of that, if your eyes wouldn't tell you that. Roddy is great on defense this year.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

No, Haywood's missing presence what made our defense fold (and team chemistry+schedule) anything West does on the defensive end, Roddy can do just as well, joshi keep giving you guys the proof of that, if your eyes wouldn't tell you that. Roddy is great on defense this year.

Without West more minutes go to VC, Jet, Kidd, and Dojo who are all not as good defenders as west are.

[markus1234]

Opponents respect/fear D.West. Guys like Dojo or Roddy look like kids in a man's game. Too much softness and inexperience.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Opponents respect/fear D.West. Guys like Dojo or Roddy look like kids in a man's game. Too much softness and inexperience.

1) They are kids

2) Dojo isn't soft, inexperienced clearly... but not soft. I think he has talent, he just needs to lern to shoot the 3 ball better.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

1) They are kids

2) Dojo isn't soft, inexperienced clearly... but not soft. I think he has talent, he just needs to lern to shoot the ball better.

second part is fixed

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

1) They are ? kids

2) Dojo isn't soft, inexperienced clearly... but not soft. I think he has talent, he just needs to lern to shoot the 3 ball better.

1st part fixed.

Roddy Beaubois 24. February 1988

Russell Westbrook 12. November 1988

Kevin Wesley Love 7. September 1988

...and so on...and so on.

ps: and yes, DoJo is soft. A big soft baby. Opponents could not care less about him. Softness is also lack of consistency, low BBIQ and average skills. It is not only about muscles... Do Jo reminds me of Brandon Bass...



You do not win anything with those type of players...

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by markus1234

1st part fixed.

Roddy Beaubois 24. February 1988

Russell Westbrook 12. November 1988

Kevin Wesley Love 7. September 1988

...and so on...and so on.

ps: and yes, DoJo is soft. A big soft baby. Opponents could not care less about him. Softness is also lack of consistency, low BBIQ and average skills. It is not only about muscles... Do Jo reminds me of Brandon Bass...



You do not win anything with those type of players...

I don't think you can be more clueless about basketball.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by mavs777

I don't think you can be more clueless about basketball.

I do not think you can make more pointless comments.

[b_o_r]

LOL @ BG How you going to make an edit and not correct his spelling?


West, Haywood, Brandan are sorely missed, but there will have to be additional issues that will have to be addressed to get the boat righted.

1. Terry needs to get it together. He is playing as an individual right now. I know he is worried about his contract but Tyson and JJB played with uncertain futures last year and they had career years. It wasn't like the Mavs didn't make some sort of offer to those two. Right now, he is playing himself out of the Mavs even offering him a contract.

2. Carter is bench material. He more productive as a spot up shooter and anchoring the 2nd team.

3. Marion's offense is sorely needed at this point but its being wasted guarding speedy PG's. DJ/Roddy/West have to start at the SG.

4. Does the team want Lamar Odom on the court?

[CadBane]

Underdog bringing the goods.

West is so crucial to this team for a litany of reasons.

1. Only guy that can and will consistently get to the rim, particularly off the Dirk screen. (No, Roddy can't/won't).

2. Our best perimeter defender. Allows Kidd to stay off of quick PGs (like Isaiah Thomas...)

3. A respectable three-point shooter so the spacing isn't shit and opposing teams won't pack the paint so hard.

4. It cuts into Terry and Roddy's minutes at the 1, where Delonte is the better option.

5. Arguably our best ball-handler.

6. It cuts into Roddy's minutes period. (Yes, I consider this a good thing.)

7. It should put VC back on the bench where he might actually make a shot again.

So yeah, I can't wait to have West back.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by CadBane

1. Only guy that can and will consistently get to the rim, particularly off the Dirk screen. (No, Roddy can't/won't).

Delonte West attempts at the rim in 2011/12 : 57 attempts 33 made field goals, 57% completion rate.

Roddy attempts at the rim in 2011/2012 : 53 attempts, 37 made field goals, 69% completion rate.

They're almost the same in minutes. The truth is, both shooting much more jumpers than they should. Can we finally put this myth to rest?

Originally Posted by CadBane

2. Our best perimeter defender. Allows Kidd to stay off of quick PGs (like Isaiah Thomas...)

Well, he is a good defender, if i remember correctly though, Roddy's defensive stats are even better this year, including pick&roll defense, but yes, West can certainly help in that department.

Originally Posted by CadBane

3. A respectable three-point shooter so the spacing isn't shit and opposing teams won't pack the paint so hard.

West is shooting 32% from deep this year. That's really average, he's right there with Terry, and Roddy in that department this year, so why are they gonna suddenly pressure him? Why are we going to play better with him because of his 3-point shot, when he's putting up the same average numbers from deep, like every other guards on the roster?

Originally Posted by CadBane

4. It cuts into Terry and Roddy's minutes at the 1, where Delonte is the better option.

Again, he's virtually putting up the same assist/to ratio than Roddy, very pedestrian numbers from both, they're not really PG's. Which isn't a problem imo, but you expect them to play pure point. They're both combo guards. They won't do it. You know Roddy won't, you should expect the same thing from West.

Originally Posted by CadBane

5. Arguably our best ball-handler.

Doesn't really do anything with it, even if true, as proved above, doesn't really attack the rim much, doesn't really assist much from penetration plays, inconsistent pull-up shooter, again, what will he give us on the attack? In reality, not science-fiction, guys.

Originally Posted by CadBane

6. It cuts into Roddy's minutes period. (Yes, I consider this a good thing.)

You consider that a good thing, because you overrate West's season, and clearly have no idea what you're talking about in this subject. In reality, West is just as average this year, as Roddy, and JET.

Originally Posted by CadBane

7. It should put VC back on the bench where he might actually make a shot again.

Why do we have to wait for him to come back to do that?

Originally Posted by CadBane

So yeah, I can't wait to have West back.

So no, you're wrong.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

Delonte West attempts at the rim in 2011/12 : 57 attempts 33 made field goals, 57% completion rate.

Roddy attempts at the rim in 2011/2012 : 53 attempts, 37 made field goals, 69% completion rate.

They're almost the same in minutes. The truth is, both shooting much more jumpers than they should. Can we finally put this myth to rest?



Well, he is a good defender, if i remember correctly though, Roddy's defensive stats are even better this year, including pick&roll defense, but yes, West can certainly help in that department.



West is shooting 32% from deep this year. That's really average, he's right there with Terry, and Roddy in that department this year, so why are they gonna suddenly pressure him? Why are we going to play better with him because of his 3-point shot, when he's putting up the same average numbers from deep, like every other guards on the roster?



Again, he's virtually putting up the same assist/to ratio than Roddy, very pedestrian numbers from both, they're not really PG's. Which isn't a problem imo, but you expect them to play pure point. They're both combo guards. They won't do it. You know Roddy won't, you should expect the same thing from West.



Doesn't really do anything with it, even if true, as proved above, doesn't really attack the rim much, doesn't really assist much from penetration plays, inconsistent pull-up shooter, again, what will he give us on the attack? In reality, not science-fiction, guys.



You consider that a good thing, because you overrate West's season, and clearly have no idea what you're talking about in this subject. In reality, West is just as average this year, as Roddy, and JET.



Why do we have to wait for him to come back to do that?



So no, you're wrong.

1. You can't just look at raw "attempts at the rim" without contextualizing it. Roddy has played a lot of garbage time minutes. Moreover, despite those numbers, watching the game, West is clearly the better of the two at attacking.

Actually, lets go even further. West takes it inside MORE than Roddy as well.

Per 82games.com, West is taking 24% of his shots from Close. Roddy only 19%.

More importantly, West actually ATTACKS off of the Dirk PnR whereas Roddy just does nothing or jacks up a jumper. Roddy is entirely too indecisive on the PnR, and if you can't see that West runs it better, than you're blinded by your French love.

2. West is a much better defender and it isn't even close. The Mavs give up .7 more PP100 with Roddy on the bench. They give up a whopping 4.4 more PP100 with West on the bench. So again, YOU'RE wrong. Not to mention Roddy's defense has gone to hell recently.

3. You know how I know you have a biased agenda? You gave it away right here. West is shooting 32.7% from three, yet you rounded it down to 32%. Opps. Maybe they do math differently in Budapest...

Moreover, West is a career 37% three-point shooter, so he's a constant threat and helps spacing. It helps because he is on the floor for other reasons where he's better than Roddy, but can also hit the three. Teams have been GIVING Roddy the jumper lately, btw.

4. West is a much, much better PG and it isn't even close. Again, you're just wrong. West has an ASST% of 26% vs. Roddy's 21%. Big difference. Not to mention the simple eye-test. Roddy CANNOT run the offense. Everyone knows it. He just can't. Doesn't have a clue. It's not just about stats. West can, and has experience, running an offense.

You don't seem to know much about what's going on on the basketball court. You rely on stats, which you cherry pick, as most of them don't back your "argument". There's a reason the Mavs have looked awful without West and Roddy getting significant PG minutes.

Thank you, come again.

[mavs777]

Think you mean west is the better pg

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by mavs777

Think you mean west is the better pg

Lol, yes.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by CadBane

1. You can't just look at raw "attempts at the rim" without contextualizing it. Roddy has played a lot of garbage time minutes. Moreover, despite those numbers, watching the game, West is clearly the better of the two at attacking.

No, he didn't. You probably read this above, and thought you're gonna use it, because there are no player garbage time stats out there to search during the season. (or is there?) When are those garbage times happened? First of all, we played lots of close games this year, and when everybody was healthy, Roddy had even some dnp, i remember some poster asking why he's not playing when he could in the 4th, on those handful of games where blew out some team. Where are those magical garbage times? I looked up our wins and losses, and as i said, overall only handful of games can even come to play here. You're surely wrong on this one.

Originally Posted by CadBane

Actually, lets go even further. West takes it inside MORE than Roddy as well.

Per 82games.com, West is taking 24% of his shots from Close. Roddy only 19%.

More importantly, West actually ATTACKS off of the Dirk PnR whereas Roddy just does nothing or jacks up a jumper. Roddy is entirely too indecisive on the PnR, and if you can't see that West runs it better, than you're blinded by your French love.

You might be right about the pick&roll attacking, overall though, West doesn't really takes it much to the rim. Again, my point was not that Roddy is attacking the rim that much, my point neither does! Both are taking more jumpers. They have like 2 attempts at the rim, per game! How West is attacking the rim on the Dirk pick&roll when he has 2 attempts per game at the rim? Tell me.

Originally Posted by CadBane

2. West is a much better defender and it isn't even close. The Mavs give up .7 more PP100 with Roddy on the bench. They give up a whopping 4.4 more PP100 with West on the bench. So again, YOU'RE wrong. Not to mention Roddy's defense has gone to hell recently.

No s**t, we give up more points without Marion and Haywood on the floor? I'm shocked. West is a more versatile defender, better this year though? I don't think so. Both are very good on defense this year, that's not where our problem is anyway, it's pointless to argue about that.

Originally Posted by CadBane

3. You know how I know you have a biased agenda? You gave it away right here. West is shooting 32.7% from three, yet you rounded it down to 32%. Opps. Maybe they do math differently in Budapest...

You got it all wrong. I'm not campaigning for Roddy here. My point was they're both average this year. They're giving up the same average production! The rounding down thing was an honest mistake. What you implying didn't even cross my mind.

Moreover, West is a career 37% three-point shooter, so he's a constant threat and helps spacing. It helps because he is on the floor for other reasons where he's better than Roddy, but can also hit the three. Teams have been GIVING Roddy the jumper lately, btw.

Originally Posted by CadBane

4. West is a much, much better PG and it isn't even close. Again, you're just wrong. West has an ASST% of 26% vs. Roddy's 21%. Big difference. Not to mention the simple eye-test. Roddy CANNOT run the offense. Everyone knows it. He just can't. Doesn't have a clue. It's not just about stats. West can, and has experience, running an offense.

West is NOT a PG. He was never a true PG. His assist % maybe slightly better than Roddy's, but he was always a spot-up shooter on offense, and a lockdown defender on the other end, that's his thing. Again, it's not about the comparison, it's just a sideway, shouldn't even have mention Roddy. West never actually run an offense.

Which offense did he run? In Boston, they always ran it through Pierce when he was there, in Cleveland, it was obviously Lebron. Maybe his one year in Seattle? Don't remember that one.

You don't seem to know much about what's going on on the basketball court. You rely on stats, which you cherry pick, as most of them don't back your "argument". There's a reason the Mavs have looked awful without West and Roddy getting significant PG minutes.

The other thing, i know West is a better, more consistent 3-point shooter, but again, i was talking about the actual production he gave us, which was right there with Roddy's especially if you factor in Roddy's much bigger volume, and again, my point is, they're both painfully average this year, from 3. Waiting for a better production, because of that, is not a realistic goal imo. I do anticipate a raise in production level, but it will be a collective thing, if it will happen. Waiting for West like he's a savior, is just stupid imo.

Originally Posted by CadBane

Thank you, come again.

You're so cute, when you get all serious. Also, arguing with you... Man, it's pointless! You're never gonna admit if you're wrong about something. I hate arguing with posters like you. I have no problem admitting if i'm wrong about something, and you can actually show me, but since i post here, i've never seen you do it, in any case. You think you're never wrong.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

No, he didn't. You probably read this above, and thought you're gonna use it, because there are no player garbage time stats out there to search during the season. (or is there?) When are those garbage times happened?

some examples...about 25min garbage time.

11:12 63-85 Rodrigue Beaubois makes 1-foot two point shot (Jason Terry assists)
10:53 63-87 Rodrigue Beaubois makes driving layup
10:41 63-87 Rodrigue Beaubois defensive rebound

6:20 69-92 Rodrigue Beaubois enters the game for Lamar Odom
3:02 71-99 Rodrigue Beaubois defensive rebound
2:19 71-99 Rodrigue Beaubois defensive rebound

6:47 Rodrigue Beaubois enters the game for Jason Terry 103-81
6:20 Rodrigue Beaubois defensive rebound 105-81
1:27 Rodrigue Beaubois defensive rebound 119-96
0:29 Rodrigue Beaubois makes two point shot (Dominique Jones assists) 122-96

5:33 Rodrigue Beaubois enters the game for Jason Terry 77-97
2:59 Rodrigue Beaubois makes free throw 1 of 2 80-103
2:59 Rodrigue Beaubois makes free throw 2 of 2 81-103

Here you can find more of them....

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelo...rigue-beaubois

[markus1234]

West plays against starters, Roddy played lots of garbage time this season where he could pad his stats. Makes no sense to compare their numbers. Roddy ain't that good, really.

Of course West is far from perfect. He needs to learn how to pass the ball to Dirk and he should take high % shots only. There is too much A.Iverson in his game for my taste...

Ball movement made us strong last year, and this year (older guys) we need it even more.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by markus1234

West plays against starters, Roddy played lots of garbage time this season where he could pad his stats. Makes no sense to compare their numbers. Roddy ain't that good, really.

Of course West is far from perfect. He needs to learn how to pass the ball to Dirk and he should take high % shots only. There is too much A.Iverson in his game for my taste...

It's astonishing how many dumb things you said this weekend, you are on fire. Needless to say, you're wrong. first of all, West started 9 games on the bench this year, on top of that Roddy comes in against starters in first quarter around the 8 minute mark, and again, plays mostly against starters in the beginning of the second half, barely plays in the fourth, when everyone healthy, we also didn't really blew out much team this year, when would he pad his stats?

Also, if those are his padded (?) stats, that's really sad. Again, my argument is not about Roddy being better than West. My question, why would you think he's gonna make a difference for us, when he's just as average as Roddy this year? They're not horrible, but they're pretty average. Our improvement won't come from either, but it certainly won't come from West. If it will happen, it will be a team effort, JET improving, West improving, Roddy improving, Ian getting back to form, Haywood comes back, and producing (that's the most important, actually).

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

My question, why would you think he's gonna make a difference for us, when he's just as average as Roddy this year? They're not horrible, but they're pretty average.

West simply is not as average as Roddy. If you do not get it, your problem.

Without West our whole PG/SG/SF rotation does not work. And Marion is probably the biggest "victim" of West' absence.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by markus1234

West simply is not as average as Roddy. If you do not get it, your problem.

Without West our whole PG/SG/SF rotation does not work. And Marion is probably the biggest "victim" of West' absence.

You didn't even try to make a point, why do you think that. It's pretty useless to argue with you.

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

You didn't even try to make a point, why do you think that. It's pretty useless to argue with you.

What do you want to hear ?

Delonte West is

- consistent on both ends
- plays agressive
- is experienced
- opponents respect him
- attacks the basket
- guards elite PG's
- draws fouls
- takes charges

Roddy is

- inconsistent on both ends
- plays out of control
- in inexperienced
- opponents do not respect/fear him
- attacks the basket only in fast breaks ..because -->
- has bad ball handling skills and low BBIQ, no dribble penetration in half court
- can't guard elite PG's (Marion is forced to chase them)
- soft on D

- Roddy is a better shot blocker...usually after his own turnover (but we do not need it. What we need are PG skills)

[markus1234]

Originally Posted by Budapest Maverick

It's astonishing how many dumb things you said this weekend, you are on fire. Needless to say, you're wrong. first of all, West started 9 games on the bench this year, on top of that Roddy comes in against starters in first quarter around the 8 minute mark, and again, plays mostly against starters in the beginning of the second half, barely plays in the fourth, when everyone healthy, we also didn't really blew out much team this year, when would he pad his stats?

Also, if those are his padded (?) stats, that's really sad. Again, my argument is not about Roddy being better than West. My question, why would you think he's gonna make a difference for us, when he's just as average as Roddy this year? They're not horrible, but they're pretty average. Our improvement won't come from either, but it certainly won't come from West. If it will happen, it will be a team effort, JET improving, West improving, Roddy improving, Ian getting back to form, Haywood comes back, and producing (that's the most important, actually).

Time to bump it.

[Budapest Maverick]

Originally Posted by markus1234

Time to bump it.

You are so childish. First of all, Roddy played really well in the last 3 weeks or so, and had a couple games just as good as West had last night. Of course you weren't bumping anything then. One (certainly) good game from West, and you're bumping suddenly. You're pathetic. The other thing. The post you bumped, was actually not at all a reply to how West is horrible, or anything like that.

It was a post that highlighted with facts many of the dumb things you said, like how West attacks the basket more, and how Roddy padded his stats in garbage time, both been refuted with facts, needless to say, you didn't respond to any of them. You are a horrible, horrible poster.