Bradley seen dancing in the streets? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 03-19-2005, 08:44 PM

Will Bradley find his way out of the doghouse now?

ocelot_ark · 03-19-2005, 08:51 PM

It sure looks like the big guy is glad Nellie is gone. Shawn's playing great so far tonight.

Murphy3 · 03-19-2005, 08:56 PM

Nellie's a class guy...But, His handling of Bradley with regards to playing time and with regards to the way he spoke about him in the press was one of the few instances to where Nellie wasn't himself. Some people don't respond well to being treated like crap.

chumdawg · 03-19-2005, 09:01 PM

The early exit polls say yes.

The Miles · 03-19-2005, 09:40 PM

Sounds good to me!

seelenjaeger · 03-19-2005, 09:50 PM

Well, I think Nellie was just disappointed that his high hopes of Bradley were never fulfilled (which only tells us that he expected so much more from our alltime favourite Battering Ram).

Now with AJ, I don´t think he has high hopes for Bradley, thus he can easily use him without getting negatively touched ...

Murphy3 · 03-19-2005, 10:00 PM

Just because Nellie's high hopes weren't fullfilled does not mean that he can't help the team.

seelenjaeger · 03-19-2005, 10:08 PM

Bradley is one of the few items Evilmav and me were always on the same side.

dirno2000 · 03-19-2005, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: seelenjaeger
Well, I think Nellie was just disappointed that his high hopes of Bradley were never fulfilled (which only tells us that he expected so much more from our alltime favourite Battering Ram).

Now with AJ, I don´t think he has high hopes for Bradley, thus he can easily use him without getting negatively touched ...

I agree...for better or for worse, Nellie put his reputation on the line and was sorely disappointed...I'm not sure if he could let that go. In my mind the breaking point was when Shawn mailed in the season after signing his new contract. It's hard to regain trust when you lose it.

With Avery the baggage isn’t' there so Shawn will be judged on his merits from here on out.

Mandyahl · 03-19-2005, 11:39 PM

i actually was going to comment on this. right before player announcements, fin, bradley, and terry are all sitting on the bench, heads down, just concentrating. then, nellie is shown on the jumbotron and they announce his retirement, and the crowd gives him a standing ovation. the whole mavs team is clapping, and finley and terry stand up and start clapping as well. bradley stayed on the bench, head down. i don't know...it just struck me as odd that every other mav was cheering, including finley and terry, and bradley just sort of sat there.

Rhylan · 03-19-2005, 11:41 PM

This was actually one of the first collected thoughts that I had after I soaked everything in. I said to my friends watching the tournament today -- Bradley will finally have a shot to play his way out of the doghouse. I really think he's got a chance to contribute, but it'll all come down to whether or not Shawn can hold up his end of the bargain with a little more consistency.

Just211 · 03-19-2005, 11:58 PM

a little more consistency

EXACTLY. he looked good tonight, but we've all seen it before. Let's hope he can keep his head straight, and contribute.

Murphy3 · 03-20-2005, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Just211
a little more consistency

EXACTLY. he looked good tonight, but we've all seen it before. Let's hope he can keep his head straight, and contribute.

Yes, we've all seen him contribute to this team on a consistent enough basis to earn playing time. No, he's not the most consistent player in the world, but what he offered should have gotten him more PT from the Mavs coaching staff.

No, Bradley wasn't always consistently good, but most players in the NBA aren't consistently good. Bradley was held to a different standard than many of the other Mavs. If he made a mistake, he found the doghouse for far too long.

Poindexter Einstein · 03-20-2005, 02:46 AM

Without Nellie there to be an influence in any way, there were interesting opinions about Bradley expressed after the game. In essence - the other players and coaches dont trust him. They were very hesitant to even praise him after the Charlotte game in fear that the "good Shawn" would disappear. Very odd - and perhaps what we havent known is that Nellie's repetitive bashing of Bradley was the safest way to deal with him.

If you like me have wondered why Bradley has been treated like he has by Nellie, I would caution you to wait and see what happens. We may find out that Nellie had good reason for his actions after all.

kg_veteran · 03-20-2005, 08:32 AM

Or, we may find out that Avery's approach works better.

I watched the press conference, and Avery basically just said, "I have Shawn out there mainly for defense. Tonight he had 4 blocks and 10 rebounds. That's what I need from him." No fear about praising Bradley, but no lavish praise either. Just "that's what I expect out of him."

Let's watch and see how Shawn continues to respond. There's no question that Shawn was inconsistent under Nelson. Maybe Avery's approach will help him become more consistent.

Imagine how good this team will be if Shawn Bradley plays up to his potential.

dalmations202 · 03-20-2005, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Imagine how good this team will be if Shawn Bradley plays up to his potential.

I am still questioning the timing. May be good, or can be bad. But, KG you are correct, winning the championship is the only ceiling for this team, if Shawn Bradley and the rest of the team play up to their potential.

I really liked what I saw out of Bradley last night though.

Murphy3 · 03-20-2005, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Poindexter Einstein
Without Nellie there to be an influence in any way, there were interesting opinions about Bradley expressed after the game. In essence - the other players and coaches dont trust him. They were very hesitant to even praise him after the Charlotte game in fear that the "good Shawn" would disappear. Very odd - and perhaps what we havent known is that Nellie's repetitive bashing of Bradley was the safest way to deal with him.

If you like me have wondered why Bradley has been treated like he has by Nellie, I would caution you to wait and see what happens. We may find out that Nellie had good reason for his actions after all.

When your coach beats down a player verbally in the locker room and in the press, it's really no shock that Bradley sometimes became more tentative on the court and that other players fell in line with what the coach was saying. However, most of us on this site realize that even when Bradley has a brain dead moment or two, he was still a positive most of the time that he's on the court. It's unfortunate that Don Nelson didn't realize this.

Hopefully it's not too late for Bradley to recover from Nellie screwing up his career.

sike · 03-20-2005, 12:02 AM

Damp with 30-33 minutes and Bradley with 15-18 sounds good to me

Bayliss · 03-20-2005, 12:13 AM

Calling out around the world,are you ready for a brand new beat.
Summer's here and the time is right,for dancing in the streets,
They're dancing in Chicago ( They'll be dancing )
Down in New Oreleans ( Dancing in the streets )
Up in New york city ( Dancing in the streets )
All we need is music ( sweet sweet ) sweet music (sweet sweet music )
There'll be music everywhere.
There'll be swinging,swaying,records playing,dancing in the streets,Oh!
It doesnt matter what hat you wear,just as long as you are there,
So come on
Grab a guy,grab a girl,everywhere around the world.
There'll be dancing,dancing in the streets.
( Oh )Its just an invitation,across the nation,a chance for folks to meet.
There'll be laughing and singing,music swinging,dancing in the streets
All we need is music ( sweet sweet ) sweet music (sweet sweet music )
There'll be music everywhere.
There'll be swinging,swaying,records playing,dancing in the streets,Oh!
It doesnt matter what hat you wear,just as long as you are there,
So come on
Grab a guy,grab a girl,everywhere around the world.
Dancing,dancing in the streets,
Way down in LA,everyday,dancing in the streets ( Dancing in the streets )
San Francisco way, ( Dancing in the streets ), they do it everyday now,
( Dancing in the streets )

dude1394 · 03-20-2005, 12:40 AM

I didn't like nellie's calling out bradley or raef to be honest. One of the few times I really disagreed with him.

Drbio · 03-20-2005, 12:43 AM

Enjoy the ride folks...Bradley is about to be reintroduced to the NBA as a game altering stud.

DNNF · 03-20-2005, 02:13 AM

so glad bradley is finally on the court again. hopefully harris will be next. the guy deserved at least 15 mins/game.

dude1394 · 03-20-2005, 11:33 AM

If you are saying he'd be as coordinated at 7' as he is at 7'6 then I'd agree. Shawn is sort of the first of the monster players, what you see with the others coming up is a lot more athleticism and physical abilities. Yao Ming, Iglauskis even Pavel have a lot more balance than shawn does.

So many times I think shawn is just struggling to keep his footing.

Day1MavsFan · 03-20-2005, 12:24 PM

In anticipation, I wore my Bradley jersey to the game last night. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

So, I'm sitting at the bar on the Platinum level, and a guy comes up next to me and says... "Do you know what jersey number you have on?". I say, "Yeah, 44." He replies, "You realize that's Shawn Bradley's?". I say, "Of course." He just shakes his head. I say, "You better get used to seeing more of Shawn." He asks, "Why?" Of course I tell him, "because Nellie's gone." He says, "If that happens, I'll have to give up my season tickets." I reply, "That's okay. We'll enjoy the championship just fine without you."

MavKikiNYC · 03-20-2005, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Day1MavsFan
In anticipation, I wore my Bradley jersey to the game last night. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

So, I'm sitting at the bar on the Platinum level, and a guy comes up next to me and says... "Do you know what jersey number you have on?". I say, "Yeah, 44." He replies, "You realize that's Shawn Bradley's?". I say, "Of course." He just shakes his head. I say, "You better get used to seeing more of Shawn." He asks, "Why?" Of course I tell him, "because Nellie's gone." He says, "If that happens, I'll have to give up my season tickets." I reply, "That's okay. We'll enjoy the championship just fine without you."

Damn, son. Sounds like you could've gotten some season tickets for cheap.

dude1394 · 03-20-2005, 12:31 PM

Good for you day1... We have a nickname for these type of fans. IBH...... Irrational Bradley Haters. They seem to feel that when he's on the court he should get every rebound, block every shot and slam every time he gets the ball. Even when the play is on the other side of the lane, it's ridiculous.

Just211 · 03-20-2005, 05:17 PM

I don't have a problem with him having bad games. And the main reason I think Nellie benched him is because he sometimes ruined the flow for BOTH Dallas and the opposition. And I think he'll do better in the new "slower" offense. BUT I hope he doesn't continue to have those games where he lets the officials, or some punk on the other team, get in his head, and make him useless. I HATE when he does that. IF he stays in control, he is a terrific Backup Center.

steponhens · 03-20-2005, 07:47 PM

What career exactly did Bradley have before Nelson supposedly ruined it? I don't recall him doing anything before he came here. He may not have always been used properly, but he also didn't give Nelson reason to keep him on the floor many nights. Everyone has admitted that Bradley is inconsistant. I don't think inconsistancy merits consistant minutes. I hope that this change does help Bradley, because he can be a huge force. I would love for Bradley to be what everyone here seems to think he is, but I have seen too many times where Bradley has a great game and looks like he could be one of the best centers in the league only to put up 5 or 6 stinkers in a row.

EricaLubarsky · 03-20-2005, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: steponhens
What career exactly did Bradley have before Nelson supposedly ruined it? I don't recall him doing anything before he came here.

What has Bradley done?

Before Bradley got to Dallas (93-94 to 96-97)
11ppg, 8.1rpg, 3.5bpg in 29mpg for the Nets and the Sixers

Since Bradley got to Dallas (96-97 to 03-04)
7.6ppg, 6.3rpg, 2.4bpg in 22mpg

Last three seasons (04-05, 03-04, 02-03)
4.1ppg, 3.6rpg, 1.3bpg in 14.6mpg

Murphy3 · 03-20-2005, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

Quote:

Originally posted by: steponhens
What career exactly did Bradley have before Nelson supposedly ruined it? I don't recall him doing anything before he came here.

What has Bradley done?

Before Bradley got to Dallas (93-94 to 96-97)
11ppg, 8.1rpg, 3.5bpg in 29mpg for the Nets and the Sixers

If Bradley had put up those numbers over the past 2-3 years and was 28-30 years old at the end of his contract, he'd be getting an enormous payday...

nice post EL.

Dooby · 03-21-2005, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

Quote:

Originally posted by: steponhens
What career exactly did Bradley have before Nelson supposedly ruined it? I don't recall him doing anything before he came here.

What has Bradley done?

Before Bradley got to Dallas (93-94 to 96-97)
11ppg, 8.1rpg, 3.5bpg in 29mpg for the Nets and the Sixers

Since Bradley got to Dallas (96-97 to 03-04)
7.6ppg, 6.3rpg, 2.4bpg in 22mpg

Last three seasons (04-05, 03-04, 02-03)
4.1ppg, 3.6rpg, 1.3bpg in 14.6mpg

Ok, to be fair, Bradley was traded from Philly and the Nets and both teams were glad to get rid of him at the time. It is funny to look at Bradley's early stats and realize that if he put those numbers up today, he'd be getting $8M a year.

Bradley's early career was at the end of the center-dominated NBA (leaving Jordan out of it for the moment). Ewing; Hakeem; Mourning; Robinson; Dikembe, Shaq were all stars at the time. GM's thought Bradley would be that kind of player-they could run the offense through him. That simply wasn't the case.

Now we live in a power forward's league: KG; Duncan; Dirk; Webber; etc. The only center left that is reminiscint of the earlier era is Shaq. He's the only center in the league you'd even want to run an offense through. Look at the allstar game, they don't even bother looking for a backup center to put on the roster.

To sum up, I don't think you can compare center statistics from the 80's or 90's with Centers of today, even when that center is the same player.

dirno2000 · 03-20-2005, 08:53 PM

So are we saying that Nelson is the reason that Bradley never became the All-Star center many thought he would be when he was drafted #2? Isn't it mostly Shawn Bradley's fault?

Murphy3 · 03-20-2005, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dirno2000
So are we saying that Nelson is the reason that Bradley never became the All-Star center many thought he would be when he was drafted #2? Isn't it mostly Shawn Bradley's fault?

Playing for Nellie is the second worst thing that could have happened to Bradley. Being drafted number 2 overall was probably the worst thing that could have happened to him.

Is Bradley the main reason as to why he never became an All-Star? Sure, he's part of the reason. But, we can also say that there were some unrealistic expectations set for him coming into his career. But, how could anyone know that he was incapable of gaining muscle mass? How could anyone have known that he could go on a 10,000 calorie a day diet and not put on weight regardless of how hard he worked out?

No, Nellie's not the reason why Bradley is not an All-Star. But, Nellie is the primary reason as to why Bradley hasn't been an 8-10 point, 6.5-7.5 rebound, and 2-2.5 block per game guy. Nellie's refused to acknowledge what Bradley brought to the team. In Nellie's mind, it was always more important to have another scorer on the court. It wasn't important to have a guy on the court that could generally make things more difficult for opponents simply because he's a relatively athletic 7'6 stormin' Mormon.

It was a matter of preferences. Unfortunately, no one's career was hurt more than Bradley's.

dirno2000 · 03-20-2005, 09:40 PM

IMO it all goes back to the 2001-2002 season. The Mavs were coming off their first playoff series in roughly a decade and Shawn Bradley was coming off of a huge post season. Then, after securing a new contract, he comes to camp out of shape and is of little use the whole season. That's when Nellie and the big three turned on him...after you lose trust it's hard to regain it. Before that season, Shawn averaged roughly 26 minutes per game in Dallas...after that season his leash was shortened considerably.

In 2002-2003 he rededicated himself and was huge in our season opening run, but by that time we had Raef who was a better player. He probably should have played more last season, but we were in the midst of our failed 5-star experiment.

I don’t mean to imply that Nellie has never mishandled Bradley, only that the situation got to this point because of Shawn…when he arrived in Dallas, Nellie was his biggest fan and took a lot of heat for it.

I think we should be force feeding minutes to Devin right now, but if we’re 4 or 5 years down the road and he still force his way on the court then that’s on him.

It will be nice to she Shawn get a new start with a new coach…unfortunately he’s at the age where player start to naturally decline anyway. And if he doesn’t perform, I’m sure Avery will call him out the same way Nellie did. Avery called out Damp after a pre-season game so I get the feeling that he won’t be one to bite his tongue.

Murphy3 · 03-20-2005, 09:47 PM

I don't think that the big 3 turned on him. It was a solo act.

V2M · 03-20-2005, 10:29 PM

If a coach is consistent and calls out every player whenever they make a mistake, that usually has a +ve impact. But if you target only 1 or 2 players but let others go scot-free for similar mistakes, that's when players lose confidence and have a hard time rebounding back to their normal game self.

madape · 03-20-2005, 11:25 PM

BRADLEY UNLEASHED!

madape · 03-20-2005, 11:25 PM

UNSHACKLED!

Day1MavsFan · 03-21-2005, 12:17 AM

Raef a better player???

Does Raef rebound better? No. Does Raef play better defense? No. Does Raef block shots better? No. Does Raef pass better? No. Does Raef set better screens? No. Does Raef intimidate opposing offensive players? No. Is Raef a better scorer? Yes. Can Raef be a difference-maker at either end? No. Can Shawn? Yes.

How exactly is Raef a better total player?

dude1394 · 03-21-2005, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Day1MavsFan
Raef a better player???

Does Raef rebound better? No.

Well yes he does.. 7.0 rpg

Quote:

Does Raef play better defense? No.

Well yes he does. He plays guys who can shoot a 10 footer much,much better. He cannot sit in the middle of a zone and protect the basket like shawn does.

Quote:

Does Raef block shots better? No.

No but he's no slouch either, 33rd in the league.

Quote:

Does Raef pass better? No.

Well yes he does, 1.3 APG to shawns .1.

Quote:

Does Raef set better screens? No.

Maybe not, but nor does he get as many moving screens on his either. I think??

Quote:

Does Raef intimidate opposing offensive players? No.

Nor does shawn really.

Quote:

Is Raef a better scorer? Yes.

Agreed

Quote:

Can Raef be a difference-maker at either end? No.

Seems to be in boston. Seems to be able to get 28mpg versus 10.6 for shawn.

Quote:

Can Shawn? Yes.

Does he consistently, No.

Thought I'd throw in efficiency per 48 minutes, since I assume you are going to throw out 48mpg stats.
28. Raef LaFrentz (Boston Celtics) 26.96