01-20-2014, 06:50 PM
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#1
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Larry Sanders
Apparently Sanders is "available" if some rumours are true. And i think there are some good chances its true.
Sanders (this summer a 4y flat 44m extension kicks in) has some maturity issues on and off the court and Henson has a breakout season. And thats the biggest reason since Sanders and Henson are basically identical players. The closest thing to Sanders in the league is (right now) Henson. So longterm the Bucks have to move one of them.
Of course:
Do the Mavs have enough to offer? Here again, our 2014 pick biting our ass. The Bucks probably demand to throw in Neal/Mayo/Ersan to dump salary. OJ is a no go for the Mavs and Ersan would hurt their 2014 cap space if they cant move him. On the other hand it would be a great backup for Dirk.
Sanders is kind of risky and his 11m price tag is maybe 1-2m too much (but the usual center price, i doubt Gortat goes for less than 9m this summer).
I would go for Sanders (and wouldnt have a problem to trade Larkin and Wright) and try to dump potential additional salary (Neal, Ersan). Then start to talk numbers with Dirk and try to clear enough salary to have ~12m for the Deng offer in the summer.
Calderon
Ellis
Deng
Dirk
Sanders
me gusta
Last edited by sefant77; 01-20-2014 at 07:00 PM.
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01-20-2014, 09:02 PM
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#2
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 282
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Miwaukee wants draft picks, which the Mavs don't have, so they'd have to get another team involved...
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"Gimme some Raptor news..."
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01-20-2014, 10:00 PM
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#3
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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Is Sanders a defender? I know he is active and puts up insane block numbers when healthy (and right), but is he a Difference Maker on the Defensive end?
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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01-22-2014, 12:24 AM
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#4
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike
Is Sanders a defender? I know he is active and puts up insane block numbers when healthy (and right), but is he a Difference Maker on the Defensive end?
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Sanders would be the second best defensive interior guy we've had in the last 20 years (Chandler).
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01-22-2014, 11:11 AM
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#5
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alby
Sanders would be the second best defensive interior guy we've had in the last 20 years (Chandler).
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I'm not really looking to compare him to the spares that the Mavs have had play center...
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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01-22-2014, 11:17 AM
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#6
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 15,241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike
I'm not really looking to compare him to the spares that the Mavs have had play center...
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True. But don't we have to?
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01-22-2014, 10:48 PM
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#7
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,482
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Larry Sanders is overrated defensively in my opinion.
The Bucks are ranked 28th in production given up to centers for the season. Only the Lakers and Sixers are worse.
http://rotogrinders.com/pages/NBA_De...Centers-177936
I realize that Sanders hasn't been healthy the whole season, but things haven't improved much since he's been back.
Dwight and Terrence Jones destroyed the Buck's interior just a few days ago. Sanders could only pull down 5 boards in that game. T Jones- 36 and 11. Dwight- 20 and 14. Even Henson grabbed 15 off the bench.
A good strategy for daily fantasy sites like Fan Duel all season long has been to roster any big playing the Bucks.
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01-20-2014, 10:27 PM
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#8
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
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I wonder if we could get a third team involved and send out Monta. What does the new CBA rule with BYC players like Sanders?
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01-21-2014, 12:04 AM
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#9
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spreedom
I wonder if we could get a third team involved and send out Monta. What does the new CBA rule with BYC players like Sanders?
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Getting Sanders isnt good enough in my mind to send out Monta. He is our consistent offense. Not perfect, but we'd have a lot more losses without him. Sanders seems like a punk to me. Id let Wright go, but again, all our assets right now are players that are absolutely needed. Im not ready to part with Larkin either haha
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01-21-2014, 01:37 AM
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#10
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Italy
Posts: 1,003
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sanders played well an half season...not enough for know if he deserves that contract.
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01-21-2014, 10:38 AM
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#11
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffViggiano
sanders played well an half season...not enough for know if he deserves that contract.
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This is where I stand. He is too much of an unproven commodity for my tastes.
And I'm not a fan of his attitude.
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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01-21-2014, 11:32 AM
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#12
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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What am I missing here? How, exactly, is Larry Sanders supposed to improve this team???
He's a 5'10", 64-year-old actor whose real name is Garry Shandling... Although he does appear to be a "Rick Carlisle guy":
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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01-22-2014, 11:57 PM
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#13
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,997
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Could he teach the sarge to play? Could we him the colonel?
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01-23-2014, 12:02 AM
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#14
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
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I agree that Sanders might be on the weak side as a man defender, but I think he's also one of the best rim protectors in the league. I know the guys at the Sloan Sports Conference last year spent a lot of time just analyzing how absolutely destructive he was on the defensive end. I think getting a strong team defender is more important right now than a guy who might be better in one-on-one situations. I think Sanders' potential is through the roof and I'd love to see him in a Mavs jersey. The Bucks have been a mess of an organization for about the last decade with weak coaching and a revolving door of players... the Mavs franchise offers a lot more stability and a rock-solid coaching staff. I think Sanders would probably lead the league in blocks eventually under Rick's tutelage.
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01-23-2014, 12:23 AM
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#15
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spreedom
I agree that Sanders might be on the weak side as a man defender, but I think he's also one of the best rim protectors in the league. I know the guys at the Sloan Sports Conference last year spent a lot of time just analyzing how absolutely destructive he was on the defensive end. I think getting a strong team defender is more important right now than a guy who might be better in one-on-one situations. I think Sanders' potential is through the roof and I'd love to see him in a Mavs jersey. The Bucks have been a mess of an organization for about the last decade with weak coaching and a revolving door of players... the Mavs franchise offers a lot more stability and a rock-solid coaching staff. I think Sanders would probably lead the league in blocks eventually under Rick's tutelage.
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The Bucks are good against point guards. He's similar to Deandre Jordan in that respect. Sanders isn't the rebounder that Jordan is, though. At least not this season.
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02-08-2014, 05:07 PM
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#16
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sefant77
Apparently Sanders is "available" if some rumours are true. And i think there are some good chances its true.
Sanders (this summer a 4y flat 44m extension kicks in) has some maturity issues on and off the court and Henson has a breakout season. And thats the biggest reason since Sanders and Henson are basically identical players. The closest thing to Sanders in the league is (right now) Henson. So longterm the Bucks have to move one of them.
Of course:
Do the Mavs have enough to offer? Here again, our 2014 pick biting our ass. The Bucks probably demand to throw in Neal/Mayo/Ersan to dump salary. OJ is a no go for the Mavs and Ersan would hurt their 2014 cap space if they cant move him. On the other hand it would be a great backup for Dirk.
Sanders is kind of risky and his 11m price tag is maybe 1-2m too much (but the usual center price, i doubt Gortat goes for less than 9m this summer).
I would go for Sanders (and wouldnt have a problem to trade Larkin and Wright) and try to dump potential additional salary (Neal, Ersan). Then start to talk numbers with Dirk and try to clear enough salary to have ~12m for the Deng offer in the summer.
Calderon
Ellis
Deng
Dirk
Sanders
me gusta
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I would do Larkin and Wright and our 2nd for Sanders.
To my eyes Sanders and Asik are the only Centers that are potential difference makers on the defensive end who may come available. I suppose Chandler as well if Melo leaves? Maybe Okafor? And it seems Asik is injured and a long shot to be dealt to a division rival.
There IS virtue in waiting and maintaining financial flexibility for the summer, while hanging onto assets. But to me guys like Gortat and Okafor are a notch below Sanders, Asik, Chandler, Hibbert, Gasol, etc. And there are no guarantees that a preferred FA Center will even come to Dallas. I think I would pull the trigger on the trade for Sanders. As Sefant said above, try to carve out enough cap room for Deng and you have two elite defenders in the starting lineup.
I do think Sanders value is climbing back up and he wont be a straight salary dump. Someone will have to give up a valuable asset or two or three to get him. Its possible I'm undervaluing our assets and its hard to account for the progress Wright and Larkin are deemed capable of by the MBT as I dont see them everyday in practice. I view their upsides as limited to nice role players due to inherent physical limitations. Both could be low end starters somewhere down the road with continued improvement I suppose. But at the two most loaded positions in the league they are more likely backups. Sanders on the other hand is a potentially elite defender and excellent rebounder- two of this teams gravest weaknesses at the position that is by far the leads scarcest and most valuable commodity.
Last edited by mac222b; 02-08-2014 at 05:21 PM.
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02-08-2014, 06:40 PM
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#17
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The Preacha
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: The Rock
Posts: 36,066
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If the MBT thinks he is the best defensive center available, then they should do it.
I'm just not sold on Sanders as a defender. Does anyone have a good feel for his game? Other than being able to block a whole mess of shots, is he the type of center that can greatly impact a game on the defensive end for an entire game?
__________________
ok, we've talked about the problem of evil, and the extent of the atonement's application, but my real question to you is, "Could Jesus dunk?"
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02-08-2014, 06:54 PM
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#18
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 42,997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sike
If the MBT thinks he is the best defensive center available, then they should do it.
I'm just not sold on Sanders as a defender. Does anyone have a good feel for his game? Other than being able to block a whole mess of shots, is he the type of center that can greatly impact a game on the defensive end for an entire game?
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Rebounding
33.1 Blair
32.9 Sanders last year
32.5 Dalembert
25.9 Sanders this year
22.9 Wright
19.4 Dirk
Shot blocking
13.4 Sanders last year
12.5 Sanders this year
7.1 Dalembert
6.0 Wright
3.0 Dirk
1.9 Blair
Opponent PP100
-6.1 Sanders last year
-4.6 Dalembert
-3.6 Dirk
-2.5 Sanders this year
-0.6 Blair
+6.1 Wright
Just depends if he's happy, healthy and putting in effort. If he could be our Nick Van Exel and turn it around here to the season he was having last year, he'd be a top-5 defensive center and the next Tyson Chandler. Otherwise, he hasn't been much better than Dalembert
Last edited by EricaLubarsky; 02-08-2014 at 08:55 PM.
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02-09-2014, 02:37 AM
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#19
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
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I would trade any combination of players on this roster for Sanders. Unfortunately, if the Bucks are actually interested in trading him, there are way too many other teams with much better assets to offer than we have. I would absolutely love to pair him next to Dirk. The guys at last year's Sloan analytics conference raved about his destructive defensive presence, and I have a lot of faith that he would exceed his 12-13 play when surrounded by strong veterans and under Rick's coaching.
Do what you need to do to get Sanders before someone else in the West does!
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02-09-2014, 03:10 PM
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#20
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spreedom
I would trade any combination of players on this roster for Sanders. Unfortunately, if the Bucks are actually interested in trading him, there are way too many other teams with much better assets to offer than we have. I would absolutely love to pair him next to Dirk. The guys at last year's Sloan analytics conference raved about his destructive defensive presence, and I have a lot of faith that he would exceed his 12-13 play when surrounded by strong veterans and under Rick's coaching.
Do what you need to do to get Sanders before someone else in the West does!
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Since I've last posted i've thought about it and I tend to agree we don't have the
assets to get Sanders unless they absolutely LOVE Larkin or Wright or Ledo. Not having that 1st hurts(once again).
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01-04-2015, 12:45 AM
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#21
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,154
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I have noticed the comments made by Kidd the last few days and it seems to indicate that Sanders night have fallen out of favor there and has some issues with the team ot personal.
Kidd has stated that Sanders would have to work his way back into the rotation and playing tine and now he's out longer than expected for " personal reasons" ,
Just sounds like thing aren't eight there...i haven't checked his contract situation...but he's an athletic gig with a lot of talent.....any chance the Mavs can get him??
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01-04-2015, 12:54 AM
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#22
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AO41
I have noticed the comments made by Kidd the last few days and it seems to indicate that Sanders night have fallen out of favor there and has some issues with the team ot personal.
Kidd has stated that Sanders would have to work his way back into the rotation and playing tine and now he's out longer than expected for " personal reasons" ,
Just sounds like thing aren't eight there...i haven't checked his contract situation...but he's an athletic gig with a lot of talent.....any chance the Mavs can get him??
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Sanders is the highest-paid player on the Bucks ($44m/4) and he can't even stick in the rotation. He's a talented player, but his attitude has always threatened to sink his career... I'd probably trust Coach Kidd's instincts on this one and stay away from the guy. Not worth the risk at that price.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 01-04-2015 at 12:55 AM.
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01-04-2015, 01:16 AM
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#23
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
Sanders is the highest-paid player on the Bucks ($44m/4) and he can't even stick in the rotation. He's a talented player, but his attitude has always threatened to sink his career... I'd probably trust Coach Kidd's instincts on this one and stay away from the guy. Not worth the risk at that price.
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Agree....not at that price.
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77
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01-04-2015, 04:17 AM
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#24
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,549
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It's getting to the point where the Bucks might have to add a piece or take back other bad salary to unload him.
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01-04-2015, 06:32 AM
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#25
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Dodged another bullet here...i was on board to take a gamble with him if he is available...
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01-04-2015, 12:54 PM
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#26
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
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If for any reason Tyson wasn't a long-term option here (and all indications, to me, are that he's coming back on a 3 or 4 year deal this summer), Sanders would still be at or near the top of my list of replacement candidates.
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01-05-2015, 04:24 PM
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#27
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Guru
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Brasil
Posts: 15,401
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Tweets are floating around that Sanders wants to quit basketball....
Last edited by sefant77; 01-05-2015 at 08:26 PM.
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01-05-2015, 07:04 PM
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#28
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
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Yikes!
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01-06-2015, 04:26 PM
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#29
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11,790
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There was something recently as of a year ago in SI where Sanders is quoting saying something along the lines of basketball isnt his life and he has a lot of outside interests that he would rather focus on. Word is he is retiring.
Paraphrasing: My life isnt all about that ball. Once it stops bouncing who are you as a person? I dont mesh with a lot of these guys because their life revolves around basketball.
I want to say he likes building skateboards and wanted to start a shelter for battered women. It was something along those lines
http://www.si.com/nba/point-forward/...ts-illustrated
Edit: Found it. Really good article about this guy. Its only a portion but you get an idea of what goes through his mind somewhat
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Last edited by Melonhead; 01-06-2015 at 04:33 PM.
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01-06-2015, 04:30 PM
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#30
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
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Bucks' team president recently came out and said that Sanders' absence from the team is excused and that they are fully supporting him for whatever his personal issues are. Sounds like they still really like him there.
I know for a fact that last season, Kidd was angling for the Nets to trade for him. I except this situation will be resolved relatively quickly and neatly and he'll be back on the court destroying shots.
(Mental note: Remember this post when he retires in six months.)
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02-16-2015, 09:20 AM
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#31
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 222
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ESPN sources: Bucks have opened buyout discussions with big man Larry Sanders
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12...n-buyout-talks
Buyout discussions have commenced between the Milwaukee Bucks and Larry Sanders that would make the recently suspended big man a free agent, according to league sources.
Sanders has served a 10-game suspension for violating the league's anti-drug program but has not returned to the team and is not expected to play for Milwaukee again. He has been listed as out for "personal reasons" in each of the Bucks' last three games.
Larry Sanders
AP Photo/David Zalubowski
Larry Sanders has not played since Dec. 23.
The 26-year-old has been adamant that he wants resume his NBA career despite the personal struggles that have resulted in two league suspensions in less than a year.
"Soon you all will know the truth," Sanders tweeted last week.
When asked last week about Sanders' status, Bucks coach Jason Kidd told local reporters: "That will be determined during the break."
Because of thumb and eye injuries -- as well as suspensions -- Sanders has only appeared in just 50 games games for Milwaukee since landing a four-year, $44 million contract extension during the summer of 2013.
He's been one of the league's most impactful defensive big men when he's been on the floor, but the surprising Bucks -- off to a 30-23 start under Kidd -- have coped well without him this season, posting a 12-7 record in those games while relying on the likes of John Henson, Ersan Ilyasova, Zaza Pachulia and the recently signed Kenyon Martin.
NBA players don't face suspensions for violating the league's anti-drug policy until their third such violation. Sanders was suspended for the final five games of the 2013-14 season and, through the most recent suspension, forfeited more than $1 million of his $11 million salary this season.
Last edited by Songbard; 02-16-2015 at 09:21 AM.
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02-16-2015, 10:35 AM
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#32
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,511
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Picking up Sanders would be a move typical for our FO. Troubled guy, Rick & veterans and hope he'll get his head straight. I agree with others though that the backup 5 will be a crucial spot going forward and we might want to go for stability over upside on this one.
If we get Amare and could choose, I'd be a bit more tempted to take Sanders and not JO.
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02-16-2015, 10:35 AM
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#33
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,511
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dp of death
Last edited by j0Shi; 02-16-2015 at 10:35 AM.
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02-16-2015, 12:34 PM
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#34
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Didn't Sanders and Ellis get in a fight a couple years back? Some jawing in the locker room or something like that?
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 02-16-2015 at 12:35 PM.
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02-16-2015, 01:43 PM
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#35
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Oak Cliff
Posts: 545
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How many D-league big men are out there right now who could give us more in 20 mpg than Greg Smith can?
Surely it is somewhere in between 2 and 20, right?
I can only guess the front office hasn't signed one of them because they think it very likely we get Amare or JO.
And as far as Sanders is concerned, I favor taking on the risk that he's not interested in playing bsketball over moving forward with the risk that Greg Smith can't play basketball.
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02-16-2015, 01:54 PM
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#36
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
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http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/...r-loss-to-heat
Seems like it was frustration after taking a beating from the Heat, as Ellis was playing poorly for parts of that series. I think this sort of behavior doesn't occur in the locker rooms of well-run teams.
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02-18-2015, 05:54 PM
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#37
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,863
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The guy needs time to get his personal, mental and health fixed. When healthy physically and mentally, thinking a mini version of Chandler. Nevetheless, he's taking the rest of this season off and not sure of his return even for next season.
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02-18-2015, 05:59 PM
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#38
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Hudson, WI
Posts: 3,938
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I love his talent and, if he gets his personal life in order, would like to see the Mavs give him a chance to redeem himself in the NBA.
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02-19-2015, 02:13 AM
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#39
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 992
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He wont be coming back to the NBA.
Would need to pass a drug test and that wont happen anytime soon.
Can you blame him? He just suited up for a couple of NBA Games then cashed in on a monster contract and will be getting Millions the next years while smoking weed all day.
lol
__________________
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Baller from the G'
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02-19-2015, 05:42 PM
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#40
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStandard
He wont be coming back to the NBA.
Would need to pass a drug test and that wont happen anytime soon.
Can you blame him? He just suited up for a couple of NBA Games then cashed in on a monster contract and will be getting Millions the next years while smoking weed all day.
lol
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He's not playing the rest of this season. He will not need a drug test to play again. He was suspended for 10-12 games, he was recently reinstated for 2 games prior to the all star break, but took " personal leave," even though he was paid for those 2 games. Pretty much his comments of not wanting to play in December put his side behind the 8 ball in terms of the buyout that he got. So he'll be getting 2.14 million over the next 7 years, not bad, if he decides not to suit up again.....but my guess, if he survives the offseason, he'll be back at the minimum.
Hopefully the league has something in place for cases like Sanders, at least to monitor him. In 2007, Eddie Griffin was cut by the Wolves, 5 months later he was dead.
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