12-07-2015, 09:54 PM
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#1
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PGT: Dirk formally welcomes Porzingis to the NBA
25 points (9-18/2-4/5-6), 6 rebounds and 2 assists in 33 minutes... Here's to childhood idols!
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These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
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Last edited by Underdog; 12-07-2015 at 10:00 PM.
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12-07-2015, 09:57 PM
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#2
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Got to get his minutes down...
Porzingas is going to be something. Single handedly brought them back.
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12-07-2015, 09:59 PM
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#3
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Diamond Member
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Loved the Dirk-Porzingis matchup. Knicks are a scrappy team this year. Good win by the guys.
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12-07-2015, 10:04 PM
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#4
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Carmella was turrible in the 4th, lost them the game.
KP is the franchise player from this day on for sure.
Last edited by sefant77; 12-07-2015 at 10:14 PM.
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12-07-2015, 11:00 PM
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#5
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Only watched 2nd half, but does anyone else get a bad feeling when the ball is in Parsons hands? The offense completely dies and a whole lot of nothing happens when he's dribbling. On top of that I have no confidence in anything he shoots.
Maybe I'm making it a bigger deal than it is. But I see nothing that shows improvement out of him. If he's injured sit him. But he's getting 20 min a night so no excuses for those 20 minutes.
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12-07-2015, 11:52 PM
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#6
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Golden Member
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Thought the 20-point lead would hold up, but this one came closer to getting away than it should've. A little hard to fault Carlisle's decision to rest Dirk and Zaza with about 6 minutes to go. They needed to rest the vet starters who've seen heavy minutes, and needed to see if the reserves can hold a lead. Disappointed that they couldn't, but good to see them get out with a win.
Back to the Garden for the first time in a long time. Crowd was decent. A lot of respect for Dirk from the trio of loud drunks behind me, and from the crowd generally. Dirk is a machine. That Q1 was a thing of lethal beauty. So efficient. No wasted movement or motion. Just conserving his energy. Despite the differences in their games, Dirk reminds me a lot of Abdul-Jabbar at a similar point in his career. No longer dominant enough to impose himself, but still able to be very productive.
The matchup with Krispy was a bit overblown--Zaza was taking KP for a lot of possessions in the second half. KP seemed to sleepwalk a bit early in the game, in fact for a lot of the game. Didn't snag a rebound until well into the second half. Despite appearing to be an afterthought at times in the NYKs' offense, he managed to score well, and really poured it on in Q4. Had 14 points over the last 17 minutes of the game. Difficult to imagine KP having a comparable career to Dirk's, but he very much looks to be the real deal. Just scratching the surface of his ability right now.
In a way, Anthony is a bit of a double-edged sword right now for the NYKs and Porzingis. He certainly makes life easier for KP than it would be if KP were the only scoring threat. But it seems a shame that KP is saddled with a second-rate "star" like Anthony. Those two offensive fouls, the two bad shots, and the technical in that critical stretch of Q4 killed the chance the NYKs had to nip Dallas at the end. Anthony basically had a little tantrum, and the NYKs' chances in this game went down the toilet. Anthony does not seem to be loved or even respected by a big swath of the crowd.
Porzingis is too young to lead the NYKs right now, but when Porzingis plays like he did tonight, and Anthony plays like he played tonight, it is not difficult to imagine that some players on the NYKs could start looking to Porzingis as the team leader sooner rather than later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
Only watched 2nd half, but does anyone else get a bad feeling when the ball is in Parsons hands?
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Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
On top of that I have no confidence in anything he shoots.
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There was a 9 year old kid tonight playing in the todddler's game at halftime, maybe 4'6" tall, who hit a pair of NBA 3-pointers. His shots, hoisted from below the waist, were not uglier than Parsons'.
Parsons'shot is not as unorthodox as Jamaal Wilkes' was, but it's not as effective either. Parsons looks like one of those guys out of the crowd hoisting a three in a halftime contest. The difference is he already has the money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
Maybe I'm making it a bigger deal than it is. But I see nothing that shows improvement out of him. If he's injured sit him. But he's getting 20 min a night so no excuses for those 20 minutes.
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Yeah, he's injured, so he deserves some slack. But I don't really see much improvement out of him either. Looks like the same flawed player from last year, prior to the injury. Won't be surprised to see Mavs' fans spend 3 years talking about Parsons' potential. I kind of wonder if the Mavericks don't have too much invested in him to let him walk.
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12-08-2015, 01:15 AM
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#7
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I think it's more of a credit to Felton being a nice fit and taking advantage of an opportunity and stepping up when we have needed him to than a story about Parsons playing poorly or the offense dying with him.
Parsons is what he is. A guy whose game molds, to a degree, to those around him(glue). He can't create his own shot consistently so he is never going to take a step to some sort of star. He does not have a quick enough step to always get to the paint and create for others. He can do a lot of nice things and can fit any offense really. He managed to find a role with 2 ball dominant players last year by basically standing in a corner and shooting more 3's per game than he ever did in Houston(srsly bombs away). Now we have shooters(allegedly) and players who can play off ball(rumors) so he's being more aggressive and looking to get inside more, he's going to have the ball stick with him some while he feels out his role and the tendencies of the guys he's on the court with. I'm not worried about his play this early personally, the 13-9 start helps though.
Last edited by Bryan_Wilson; 12-08-2015 at 01:18 AM.
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12-08-2015, 01:24 AM
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#8
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Diamond Member
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Problem with Parsons is he doesn't do anything spectacularly well. He's an average to below average rebounder. About an average defender when healthy, showed some ability to dial in the intensity on that end pre-injury, in fairness. Pretty average shooter. A bit of a ball stopper. His signature move is the pump fake/ball fake. His best skill is creating off of this combination. Also crafty finisher with either hand and good passer going to the hoop. If he could bump his 3pt shooting to around 40% consistently it'd be a better weapon. He also isn't quite as versatile defensively as maybe we'd hoped. Didn't take well to PF minutes last season.
Khris Middleton(shooting 47% from 3) has a signature NBA skill and more versatile than Parsons defensively just got a 5yr-70m deal from the Bucks. And hes also a flawed player.Think his deal starts at 12+ this season. Anything much more than that I think MBT maybe should say "Adios" to Parsons this summer(unless of course he opts in)Last contract was a generous overpay anyway.
Last edited by mac222b; 12-08-2015 at 01:30 AM.
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12-08-2015, 01:29 AM
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#9
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Diamond Member
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Good win tonight though!
Wish they could've closed it out and saved some old legs. Dirks minutes really creeping...
Deron and Raymond(!)excellent once again. Jenkins serviceable, offers little resistance defensively though.
Wes looking more comfortable. Didn't force much tonight, no dumb turnovers that I remember.
Would like to see Powell get back in his groove offensively. Got some easy buckets tonight. Less pick and pop for him lately. 2nd unit raggedy w/out JJ and Devin
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12-08-2015, 07:04 PM
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#11
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreshJive
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Another Cuban stfu moment. Love the guy but he just sounds like an idiot sometimes. He's perhaps the main reason they had no assets to move up.
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12-08-2015, 05:50 AM
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#12
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Enjoyed that matchup today. Can see why people dub him the next Dirk, but it is far off.
Dirk was so athletic in his prime; brought the ball up, going coast to coast and even had handles for a crossover.
Young & Agile Dirk Nowitzki:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NSHXSBjZXo
Dirk Nowitzki Full Highlights 2003 First Round Gm 3 vs. Trail Blazers - 42 Pts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9FnsYUWsBI
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Last edited by Cerberus; 12-08-2015 at 06:05 AM.
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12-08-2015, 10:10 AM
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#13
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To be fair, Porzingis is much better than Dirk was in his rookie season. However, Dirk improved his game tremendously over time and spent countless hours working in the gym to eventually become one of the best players of all time. It's too early to say that Porzingis will become a player like Dirk but the talent seems to be there. With the same work attitude he might be one of the future stars of the NBA. Would be great to have him at Dallas.
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12-08-2015, 10:14 AM
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#14
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Member
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Dirk got the upper hand this time but lets be fair.
Porzingis will be a Superstar. The Knicks finally caught a break with their horrible drafting.
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12-08-2015, 10:53 AM
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#15
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I'm not sure if KP will score as many points in his career or have the longevity of Dirk but he certainly has the credentials and skills to be a better all around player. If he has the work ethic of Dirk and stays healthy he will be a very special NBA player for many years.
Kudos to PJ to make the bold move to pick him.
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12-08-2015, 11:31 AM
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#16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rimrocker
I'm not sure if KP will score as many points in his career or have the longevity of Dirk but he certainly has the credentials and skills to be a better all around player. If he has the work ethic of Dirk and stays healthy he will be a very special NBA player for many years.
Kudos to PJ to make the bold move to pick him.
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That's a big IF. Dirk is one of the hardest working players in NBA history. His work ethic is second to none.
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12-08-2015, 11:32 AM
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#17
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Guru
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The Dirk vs KP highlight video from last night already has over 50k views.
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12-08-2015, 02:36 PM
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#18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rimrocker
I'm not sure if KP will score as many points in his career or have the longevity of Dirk but he certainly has the credentials and skills to be a better all around player. If he has the work ethic of Dirk and stays healthy he will be a very special NBA player for many years.
Kudos to PJ to make the bold move to pick him.
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The surprise with Porzingis isn't his offense. Everyone who scouted him said his offensive game is without question. The surprise has been his defense. He had the usual "euro tag" of those guys are skilled players but lack the toughness to bang/battle and defend in the paint against rugged NBA players.
He may have a way to go to catch Dirk offensively (he needs more core strength) but he has he's already established himself as a defensive force in 22 games. At 20 he's already a legitimate rim protector (10th in the league) and despite not being all that strong he's averaging 8.9rpg as a rook.
Dude is 7'3 with a 7'8 wingspan and has surprising lateral quickness. Its the oddest thing. With his lack of strength you'd think the way to attack him is to drop a shoulder and create space. But with his length he just swallows guys up when they get into him.
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12-08-2015, 11:49 PM
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#19
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Diamond Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rimrocker
I'm not sure if KP will score as many points in his career or have the longevity of Dirk but he certainly has the credentials and skills to be a better all around player. If he has the work ethic of Dirk and stays healthy he will be a very special NBA player for many years.
Kudos to PJ to make the bold move to pick him.
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That is where I struck several nerves....should have recognized the hornet's nest I was poking
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12-08-2015, 01:36 PM
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#20
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It's extremely early to consider him being a better all around player than Dirk was throughout his career.... Regardless of skills.... Dirk was one of the best clutch players and playoff performers to come along in generations.. His playoff numbers in his prime are probably among the 10 best players of all time..
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12-08-2015, 02:33 PM
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#21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy3
It's extremely early to consider him being a better all around player than Dirk was throughout his career.... Regardless of skills.... Dirk was one of the best clutch players and playoff performers to come along in generations.. His playoff numbers in his prime are probably among the 10 best players of all time..
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This. The guy is 20 games into his career and he is being compared to a top 20 player of all time.
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12-08-2015, 04:34 PM
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#22
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Diamond Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy3
It's extremely early to consider him being a better all around player than Dirk was throughout his career.... Regardless of skills.... Dirk was one of the best clutch players and playoff performers to come along in generations.. His playoff numbers in his prime are probably among the 10 best players of all time..
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It's a sign of respect and testament to accomplishments to a superstar for a young player to be compared to that superstar.
It is fair to make the observation and comparison. Some of us are merely stating KP has a chance to come to fruition, and maybe more, based on his play so far. I don't think anyone is saying he is there now or are making any guarantees that he will in the future.
Do you honestly think anyone on this board would disagree about the last 2/3 of your message?
We all know that but there is no harm in discussing someone who might be able to become Dirk's NBA protégé and possibly take it to another level.
I think it is fair to say and common basketball knowledge that Dirk has definitely revolutionized the NBA style of play and redefined the PF position to a Stretch 4.
Comparing KP to him is a testament to the greatness of Dirk.
Last edited by rimrocker; 12-08-2015 at 04:41 PM.
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12-08-2015, 07:07 PM
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#23
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I agree with Murphy on this one. Lets tap the brakes. Porzingis looks great. Looks like a possible franchise player. Multiple all-star. Doesn't mean it's going to play out that way. And any better than Dirk talk is silly at this stage.
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12-08-2015, 08:28 PM
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#24
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Golden Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac222b
I agree with Murphy on this one. Lets tap the brakes. Porzingis looks great. Looks like a possible franchise player. Multiple all-star. Doesn't mean it's going to play out that way. And any better than Dirk talk is silly at this stage.
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One comparison that I've heard made that seems legitimate (in fact, I think Dirk said something similar) is that Porzingis seems to be further along in his development as a rookie than Dirk did at a comparable point. Taking into account that for Dirk's rookie year, the NBA was coming off a labor strike and that Dirk's first year was a shortened by more than a third, it doesn't seem as far-fetched an observation.
That said, definitely makes sense to tap the brakes on comparing Porzingis' potential after 20 games to Dirk's accomplishments over 17 years.
Porzingis is interesting to watch and does have a unique physique and skill set, but how many players have come into the league promising to set the house afire only to flame out or plateau early. Porzingis has a chance to be very, very good. So sit back and enjoy watching him develop.
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12-08-2015, 11:20 PM
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#25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr
One comparison that I've heard made that seems legitimate (in fact, I think Dirk said something similar) is that Porzingis seems to be further along in his development as a rookie than Dirk did at a comparable point. Taking into account that for Dirk's rookie year, the NBA was coming off a labor strike and that Dirk's first year was a shortened by more than a third, it doesn't seem as far-fetched an observation.
That said, definitely makes sense to tap the brakes on comparing Porzingis' potential after 20 games to Dirk's accomplishments over 17 years.
Porzingis is interesting to watch and does have a unique physique and skill set, but how many players have come into the league promising to set the house afire only to flame out or plateau early. Porzingis has a chance to be very, very good. So sit back and enjoy watching him develop.
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I agree with Murphy as well. Sure there are minor similarities and he is further along at his age, but I felt like they glossed over what dirk has gone through over 17 seasons and were way too quick to say kp could very well be the next dirk after 20 games. The work ethic dirk has (which is second to none) got him to where he is as a legend.
All in all I thought it was a bit unfair. Dirks spent a lot of blood sweat and tears to get to where he is. Dealt with much criticism etc. I think most forget just how agile and fast dirk was as a 7footer.
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12-08-2015, 10:00 PM
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#26
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Porzingis may not ever be as good as Dirk, but he's good enough to dominate this thread, apparently... I like the kid, he's exciting to watch.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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12-08-2015, 10:14 PM
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#27
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
Porzingis may not ever be as good as Dirk, but he's good enough to dominate this thread, apparently... I like the kid, he's exciting to watch.
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Perhaps some would feel better if we would have compared him with that other great German Mav...Uwe Blab.
I'm sure that would have gotten the same attention
Last edited by rimrocker; 12-08-2015 at 10:14 PM.
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12-08-2015, 11:23 PM
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#28
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Why is basketball the sport where we are always looking for the next person. The next Jordan, the next dirk, the next insert legend from the past. Why can't players just play without always being compared? I don't see that happening in other sports. Or maybe I don't look hard enough
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12-08-2015, 11:35 PM
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#29
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Diamond Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
Why is basketball the sport where we are always looking for the next person. The next Jordan, the next dirk, the next insert legend from the past. Why can't players just play without always being compared? I don't see that happening in other sports. Or maybe I don't look hard enough
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I don't understand why people think that is a criticism on Dirk.
If we were comparing Dirk to KG or Duncan I could understand a heated discussion on comparing accomplishments. The comparison on KP is only an attempt to gauge the lads potential or ceiling...not his accomplishments thus far. Anyone thinking otherwise is completely missing the point.
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12-09-2015, 12:07 AM
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#30
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
Why is basketball the sport where we are always looking for the next person. The next Jordan, the next dirk, the next insert legend from the past. Why can't players just play without always being compared? I don't see that happening in other sports. Or maybe I don't look hard enough
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Basketball is actually less of a team sport than most other team sports... It's simple math: there are only 5 guys on the court per team at any given time, so 1 guy can make more of a difference. Sure, there are player comparisons in platoon-style sports, such as football (American and Euro), but it's usually limited to "skill positions" like quarterback & running back, or striker & goalie... In basketball, any position can be the most effective player on the court, so the comparisons run quick when there are only 5 positions to choose from. And when a guy comes along and re-defines the game, like Dirk (or Wilt, Dr. J, Magic, Jordan, Shaq, Curry?, etc.), people can't help but look for the next player who comes along to make it a trend, thus cementing the NBA narrative.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 12-09-2015 at 12:09 AM.
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12-09-2015, 10:25 AM
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#31
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And the NBA is a sport that markets the player over the team...
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