F*** the NBA

[madape]

Maybe I'm overreacting because I've had a few drinks, but I can't help but be absultely repusled by what happened in Auburn Hills tonight. I can't allow myself to be a fan of a league that allows this kind of shit to happen. Basketball is a great game. It's the best sport in the world as far as I'm concerned. But after tonight, I'm done with the NBA.

I've spent years of life following this game. What a waste. he NBA isn't worth my time. I have other things to do than waste my time watching this shit.

Fuck it.

[Murphy3]

F' some of the fans.
F' some of the Pacers players.
F' the NBA that will surely choke on their own nuts and not give them the suspensions that they deserve.
F' Ben Wallace for overreacting.
F' ESPN for having such an illogical opinion on what went on until Joe Dumars called in. Yes, they quickly changed their positions to save face.

[Misfit Mav]

A lot of fans will understandably have this reaction. PR disaster for the NBA.

[kg_veteran]

I didn't see the footage last night. Watched it this morning on ESPNEWS. My initial reaction was kind of like ape. The whole scenario was appalling.

I also saw the reaction from the ESPN crew (Legler, Anthony, Smith). Disgusting. I'll never forget them saying (I believe it was Legler): "Artest reacted pretty much the way any other player would have." Or something like that.

Artest should be suspended for 20 games and perhaps longer. Same thing for Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O'Neal.

I'm sick to my stomach from watching the footage.

Also, just so people understand, I think that the fans who threw chairs, attacked players from behind, came on to the floor, etc., should face appropriate criminal charges. There is no excuse for that kind of behavior. But FIRST AND FOREMOST, NBA players have a DUTY to keep their ass on the court and control themselves.

[OzMavs]

This league is a joke unless the perpetrators get severely punished. I can't believe what I saw.

[dalmations202]

IMO;

There needs to be 20 game suspensions for players, and very hefty fines.
There needs to be assault and battery charges against players and some of the fans.
There needs to be banning of all fans involved from the arena. This includes the ones throwing popcorn, ice, beer, chairs, punches, insults, and other objects. They have plenty of tape. No refunds on season tickets.
There needs to be fines to the teams, and officials who let the game get that rough (this wasn't a one time thing).


Judge needs to throw out all <u>civil suits</u> involved in this, - sending the message that a****** fans can't get rich by acting like that and getting someone PO'd. All actual medical bills though should be paid for by whomever hired the security, IMO.

[MavKikiNYC]

It's interesting to see that some other people have the same disgusted reaction to what the NBA has become. I can't imagine Bird and Carlisle are too happy to have Artest on their team right now.

I also think how many children I've noticed lately at the few games I've attended at MSG and Continental Airlines Arena--5, 6, 7-year olds seated with parents courtside. I can't imagine what would have happened if Artest had even inadvertently made contact with a child while mindlessly going after some fan who may have thrown beer on him.

Also, I've seen groups of school-age childeren in blocks of seats sponsored by Penny Hardaway or Allan Houston. Now to be accurate, these children aren't in any immediate physical danger from the upper decks where they're seated, but is this really the type of thing that you'd want a child that age to be taken to see? Just think how much good done by athletes like Hardaway and Houston can be undone by one stupid nimrod act by Artest.

So yeah, the thought has crossed my mind about whether it would be appropriate for me to mail the couple of tickets I have bought in advance to NYKs games to David Stern with a letter explaining why I know longer want to consume his company's product.

Developing.......

[vjz]

20 game suspension for Artest is a joke. As far as I am concerned, this should be the last game he'll play in the NBA. Should be banned for life. He doesn't want to play anyway.

[Mavs4skin]

Remember what happened w/ Spree. He choked his coach and was gone for what...68 games. Artest has to be seen as too much of a liability for the league for them to give him a slap on the wrist. Unless the NBA has no bakbone he has to do more than 20 games. He'd be lucky with a season long suspension.

BTW.... what would stop Artest the next time this happens?

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: madape
Maybe I'm overreacting because I've had a few drinks, but I can't help but be absultely repusled by what happened in Auburn Hills tonight. I can't allow myself to be a fan of a league that allows this kind of shit to happen. Basketball is a great game. It's the best sport in the world as far as I'm concerned. But after tonight, I'm done with the NBA.

I've spent years of life following this game. What a waste. he NBA isn't worth my time. I have other things to do than waste my time watching this shit.

Fuck it.

I know your tagline is madape but don't you at least think you should wait to see what the NBA does about it. It's not like every individual can be controlled at all times. Sort of like any other large organization.

[dude1394]

If the idea that letting a thug like artest (and the other thuggery that is allowed to go on) is what is making you sick madape I will agree with you. Ever since the detroit "bad boys" changed the game to bash anyone going to the hoop and shaq/barkley changed it to backing down their defenders, it's been a much,much worse product.

[dirk2003]

As bad as this sounds... I bet there will be more interest in the NBA now.

[Misfit Mav]

Originally posted by: dirk2003
As bad as this sounds... I bet there will be more interest in the NBA now.

I don't think so. There is the "all pub is good pub" line of thought, but that only goes so far. Many NBA fans will be excited and curious over the next Pistons-Pacers game, but more and more casual fans will give up on the game altogether.

[DubOverdose]

Less families will take their kids to games in the short term for sure.... I'm so glad that I'm a Mavs fan, not a Pistons or Pacers fan. Mavs and Spurs are a heckuva lot classier.

[Dirkenstien]

After witnessing what had happened last night I couldn't stop shaking my head and thinking about how badly I wished this whole thing didnt happen. It was a true disgrace to the NBA and to the respectful fans of the NBA.

Yes, there will be more interest and most likely record high ratings on December 25th when these teams meet again, but overall this has placed a very negative lime light on the NBA and some of the players.

It was terribly sickening to watch and I truly hope Stern will hand out punishments accordingly.

-I believe Wallace should be suspended for 10 games at the most. His foul was bad but he is not responsible for Artest' insane actions.
-Artest and Jackson should be suspended for the majority, if not the rest of the season.
-Jermaine O'neal should be suspended for anywhere between 20 and 30 games.

[dude1394]

Wallaces going after artest should be dealt with more sternley than normal but not outrageously so. Artest has a history of thuggery and his foul of wallace was in line with his reputation. I would like to see flagrant fouls get 20 games off the bat, there's no place for it PERIOD.

[mavsfanforever]

I cannot understand what Arterst did wrong, I would punch someone if he attacked me. Anyone answer me? if someone throws something at you when you are already under distress and trying to control yourself from what happened just before. I disagree the punches thrown by O'neil because it felt like he got into it late and attacked someone who was by himself and O'neil was well protected by the security. But from my standpoint kudos to Artest and specially Stephen Jackson for showing guts to go into stands and beating the shit out of stupid fans.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: mavsfanforever
I cannot understand what Arterst did wrong, I would punch someone if he attacked me. Anyone answer me? if someone throws something at you when you are already under distress and trying to control yourself from what happened just before. I disagree the punches thrown by O'neil because it felt like he got into it late and attacked someone who was by himself and O'neil was well protected by the security. But from my standpoint kudos to Artest and specially Stephen Jackson for showing guts to go into stands and beating the shit out of stupid fans.

It's disturbing that you and others would choose to defend him. Has our society slipped that far?

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: mavsfanforever
I cannot understand what Arterst did wrong, I would punch someone if he attacked me. Anyone answer me? if someone throws something at you when you are already under distress and trying to control yourself from what happened just before. I disagree the punches thrown by O'neil because it felt like he got into it late and attacked someone who was by himself and O'neil was well protected by the security. But from my standpoint kudos to Artest and specially Stephen Jackson for showing guts to go into stands and beating the shit out of stupid fans.

This is what you originally said. Later in the thread you said:

Believe me dude, I am justifying someone's actions. All i am saying is it is understandeable.

Your original post sure sounds like you're justifying everything that Artest did.

[dude1394]

Did he punch the guy who threw something at him? what stupid fans did they beat the heck out of? The ones who threw the "liquid" or the ones just standing there aghast?

so next time someone cuts you off in traffic, even though you don't know who exactly did it, go after the nexts guy you see and ram him with your car, justified?

[mavsfanforever]

Originally posted by: dude1394
Did he punch the guy who threw something at him? what stupid fans did they beat the heck out of? The ones who threw the "liquid" or the ones just standing there aghast?

so next time someone cuts you off in traffic, even though you don't know who exactly did it, go after the nexts guy you see and ram him with your car, justified?

What would you do if a foreign object hits you? You have no clue who it is but you know the direction it came from. Would you run or would you be a man and do something??

[mavsfanforever]

murphy, I am not defending him neither I said it is tolerable, All I am saying is it is understandable. It can happen to anyone.

[dude1394]

No it cannot mff. No one has the right to randomly go attack someone because someone else has insulted them. And let's be honest here, getting water/beer thrown on you is an insult not worth killing someone for.

[mavsfanforever]

Originally posted by: dude1394
No it cannot mff. No one has the right to randomly go attack someone because someone else has insulted them. And let's be honest here, getting water/beer thrown on you is an insult not worth killing someone for.

Dude, have you ever been through fights in college??. These fights are normal. Throwing punches do not mean killing someone. It is pretty normal in college. Lets not forget that most of the NBA players are not very old and are actually same age as college kids. Specially the people who were mainly involved in this entire fight. The only people who were stopping this fight wre the old matured folks like Reggie Miller and Rasheed Wallace but unfortunately no one talks about it.

[dude1394]

Ok...I'm standing in the AAC.. Someone from behind me hits me with a beer. Sure I'd be pissed and I'd turn around mad as hell and try to see who did it. Would I go 10 rows up and pick some random guy out and begin to punch his lights out (be a man as it were), no. Of course if I was like artest, I'd pick someone who was 5' tall weighed 110 pounds since that was the differential between he and the guy he tried to puch out.

If the guy was looking at me in the face and threw it at me I'd probably get in one of those shoving matches with him and MAYBE it would escalate into a fight. If I were 6"7" 240 pounds and I began to punch him with only other fans pulling me off of him, I would fully expect to be arrested for assault. it's completely uncalled for and if you would do it, you need some anger management yourself.

[mavsfanforever]

Originally posted by: dude1394
Ok...I'm standing in the AAC.. Someone from behind me hits me with a beer. Sure I'd be pissed and I'd turn around mad as hell and try to see who did it. Would I go 10 rows up and pick some random guy out and begin to punch his lights out (be a man as it were), no. Of course if I was like artest, I'd pick someone who was 5' tall weighed 110 pounds since that was the differential between he and the guy he tried to puch out.

If the guy was looking at me in the face and threw it at me I'd probably get in one of those shoving matches with him and MAYBE it would escalate into a fight. If I were 6"7" 240 pounds and I began to punch him with only other fans pulling me off of him, I would fully expect to be arrested for assault. it's completely uncalled for and if you would do it, you need some anger management yourself.

How old are you? Also were you hit by someone just after you were in a situation where you were trying to control your anger about a situation that just happened??

Artest is not too old. Believce me most of these players are younger than some of us matured people here.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: mavsfanforever

How old are you? Also were you hit by someone just after you were in a situation where you were trying to control your anger about a situation that just happened??

Artest is not too old. Believce me most of these players are younger than some of us matured people here.

I'm an old dude, 48. I understand tempers on a basketball court, I've gotten in guys faces and sure either one of us could have swung at each other but didn't. I've had beer spilled all over me, I've never been hated by 20,000 people in an arena before. But I still don't understand what you are saying is understandable? He was just hit with a CUP OF BEER! But he took off after anyone he could find swinging at their head. Again if you think that's understandable "I" think you have anger management issues.

Of course this is you and me behind a keyboard and not in the moment. If you think it's understandable (and I guess by corrollary any player would do it as well) then the only recourse is to cage the players and fans apart, since the fans can't be controlled and it's understandable that the young immature players might at any time go up in the stands and beat the hell out of a fan.

[Misfit Mav]

This incident has been gnawing at me for a while and I've been trying to figure out exactly why myself and so many others have been so upset by it. After all, there are so many people around the world dying from violence, starvation, and disease that a few bruises in a brawl hardly seem to matter.

But I think that is exactly the point. I follow the NBA in order to see athletic exellence and good-spirited competition. It's not an escape from the world, it is a chance to see in an organized form a better side of the world.

A bunch of drunken louts and some hot-head players put an end to that the other night. I think that's why the issue has proven so divisive and upsetting to so many.

[dude1394]

MFF you may outweigh most of the people you know by 50 pounds and 6-7" and you know how to punch some poor sucker without potentially killing the guy, but I' do not and haven't been through wwf fights.

I've been through shoving matches and I've even gotten in "scrapes" in arenas, but nothing like what I saw artest doing to some poor guy just standing there holding his coke.

[mavsfanforever]

dude , tell me one thing, what would your reaction be when you get hit by a foreign object ?

[mavsfanforever]

Believe me dude, I am justifying someone's actions. All i am saying is it is understandeable.

[Just211]

IMO Wallace should be treated as if nothing happened after his incident. He didn't cause those actions. HE didn't go in the stands.
Also IMO Artest should get a hefty suspension, but it is hard to figure out how much was defense. BUT I don't even think he attacked the right guy, so that poor guy who got his ass kicked will be ca$hing in.
But I think Jackson and O'Neal should get the biggest suspension or fine. O'Neal took a cheap shot on a fan, who was on the court, but wasn't even involved with O'Neal. And Jackson was clearly looking to fight. He was bowing up and challenging Pistons left and Right, and then went right after a fan and decked him, he was trying to breakup anything.

And as far as fans, clearly the first guy who nailed Artest with Cup, should be dealt with, and then any fan throwing punches. For example the idiot that guy decked by O'Neal, and that Huge guy who droping punches on Pacers heads.

[FishForLunch]

The black eye is on the fans you think that they can do whatever they want. So some of you guys wont watch NBA anymore nobody care, watch the WNBA then.

[Just211]

I'll tell you one thing, I couldn't watch a East vs. East game before this, so who cares.AND THere is no way I'd stop watching the Mavs because of this.

[dude1394]

I again do NOT fault fans for attacking a player in a stand beating up on someone.

[digit]

I am in shock about the incident and about some people`s reaction to it.

BAN these motherf*cking spoiled millionaires beyond belief and SUE them hard...

Artest should be thrown out of the league, O´Neal and Jackson should be banned for the rest of season. Also, the league should start getting serious about the whole macho shoving or punching between players on the floor. Start with this game, ban the involved Detroit players for some games.

Also, the whole Pacers (and Pistons) organizations should be punished as well. They are responsible for their employees. What about donating SERIOUS money to a anti-aggression program?! Send the money AND send your players, too...

[bischof]

there were a lot of soccer games in europe, where players, coaches or referees were hit by fans (golfball, stone, lighter, head of a pig) and I don´t even remember one case, where the person, who got hit, started a fight with the fan. and fans in europe are a lot more agressive and ugly to the visiting team than in the usa.

[mary]

I admit that I haven't read this entire thread, or any of the others. But after a day and a night of thinking things over, I have come to the following conlclusions about anyone who is making excuses for the actions of Artest or believes his punishment should me minimal.

A) You never mentally developed past the age of twelve.
B) You don't understand the difference between "self-defense" and "retaliation".
C) At some point in your life, you had a traumatic experience involving a cup of ice.


Honestly, I don't understand how someone can watch a professional athlete run up into the stands and randomly attack someone and call it "understandable" or try to convince others that he really did nothing wrong. Its really sickening to hear so many "otherwise" respected media folks defending Artest. I think all three Pacers should be suspended for the rest of the year, and they should possibly consider throwing Artest out altogether.

Also, unless there is some info I'm not privy to, Ben Wallace looks like he may be getting screwed by the league - I hope his suspension is lifted shortly as players normally only get suspended for 2- 5 games for on-court scuffles. He certainly shouldn't get anything more than what the potato got.

[dude1394]

Wallace also needs to get more than normal, but unfortunately it's only because of what happened, I agree with you that he was doing a pretty normal altercation, but the result will be weighed in, unfair but that's too bad.

[Dirkenstien]

Its funny how some people are saying that Artest attacked a dorky fan because he was disrespected when a plastic cup hit him even though before that he backed off like a scared puppy when someone bigger than him "Ben Wallace" disrespected him way more by shoving his face with two hands as hard as he could on national television.

In my opinion, Artest would have shown more "self-respect" by not being afraid to "defend" himself against somone who he knew had an equal or better chance of wooping his butt.