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JET_31 · 02-24-2011, 02:45 PM

Seriously think that we can contend for a championship as constructed? All year long I've harped and harped on the fact that we need a reliable #2 option who can create in the half court whenever the tempo slows down in the playoffs and it becomes a half court game. We've seen time and time again that Dirk + a bunch of 3's and 4's doesn't work whenever teams key in on him and try to make everyone else beat them..but it seems like they aren't even trying to make a move happen? We need a little size at the wing as our undersized backcourt (jet, barea, beaubois) is probably the only thing keeping us from being an elite defensive team. Why are we not going after stephen jackson or bust? Let's be serious, we have about a 2 year window before Kidd declines and while Dirk will age nicely, it was apparent during his injury just how RELIANT this team is on him. The day Dirk slips up a the tiniest bit and can no longer carry the team on his back all by himself, the very day that he goes from an MVP candidate to just another star like what's happened to Duncan, our window is closed. We owe it to the man to make these last 2 count.

Underdog · 02-24-2011, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET_31

Seriously think that we can contend for a championship as constructed?

Yes.

I'm guessing you haven't watched a Mavs game since the playoffs last year...

We already got our "Robin" (a guy who changes the game) in Tyson Chandler... For everybody who wanted more scoring, we have Peja Stojakovic.

We have no problem beating the elite teams in this league. What's the problem?

JET_31 · 02-24-2011, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yes.

I'm guessing you haven't watched a Mavs game since the playoffs last year...

We already got our "Robin" (a guy who changes the game) in Tyson Chandler... For everybody who wanted more scoring, we have Peja Stojakovic.

We have no problem beating the elite teams in this league. What's the problem?

peja is a 3rd or 4th option at this point in his career. we need a guy who can create offense, not just spot up for 3's. do you know the difference between creating shots and shooting shots?

and by the way i love tyson chandler..he addressed one major need, and now I'm talking about addressing another.

Underdog · 02-24-2011, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET_31

peja is a 3rd or 4th option at this point in his career. we need a guy who can create offense, not just spot up for 3's. do you know the difference between creating shots and shooting shots?

He spreads the floor and can get his shot off in a micro-second. For him, spotting up and creating are the same thing.

And don't give me this "3rd or 4th option" crap. Everybody on this team other than Cardinal and DoJo can put up 20+ points in a game, so we don't need the proverbial "2nd option" - we have 8 different guys who can step up to fill that need on any given night.

JET_31 · 02-24-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

He spreads the floor and can get his shot off in a micro-second. For him, spotting up and creating are the same thing.

And don't give me this "3rd or 4th option" crap. Everybody on this team other than Cardinal and DoJo can put up 20+ points in a game, so we don't need the proverbial "2nd option" - we have 8 different guys who can step up to fill that need on any given night.

that is totally not what is meant by "creating a shot"

anyone in the game of basketball can shoot an open jump shot off of a pass. in order for the guy to get that shot, someone else has to make a play to make the defense collapse. the spot up jump shooter is dependent on this and is only as good as the play maker.

a guy who can create his own shot, on the other hand, doesn't need someone to set him up. he can create a shot on his own even when he isn't wide open, off the dribble, or by driving. he has many offensive moves and is a much more dangerous player than a spot up shooter. and is especially useful whenever Dirk is being played tough and double teamed. There hasn't been a team win a championship in history without a clear cut #2.

Underdog · 02-24-2011, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET_31

that is totally not what is meant by "creating a shot"

anyone in the game of basketball can shoot an open jump shot off of a pass. in order for the guy to get that shot, someone else has to make a play to make the defense collapse. the spot up jump shooter is dependent on this and is only as good as the play maker.

a guy who can create his own shot, on the other hand, doesn't need someone to set him up. he can create a shot on his own even when he isn't wide open, off the dribble, or by driving. he has many offensive moves and is a much more dangerous player than a spot up shooter. and is especially useful whenever Dirk is being played tough and double teamed. There hasn't been a team win a championship in history without a clear cut #2.

I know what you're talking about, but Peja doesn't need to be open to shoot - he just has to feel like shooting it.... The guy creates his own own shot with his instant release - if you're not already on him, you won't be... It's not exactly the same as "creating offense," but it's a big reason why teams can't double Dirk all of a sudden (which is the desired result of a guy who creates his own offense...)

Murphy3 · 02-24-2011, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

He spreads the floor and can get his shot off in a micro-second. For him, spotting up and creating are the same thing.

And don't give me this "3rd or 4th option" crap. Everybody on this team other than Cardinal and DoJo can put up 20+ points in a game, so we don't need the proverbial "2nd option" - we have 8 different guys who can step up to fill that need on any given night.

It's yet to be seen whether or not this team needs the proverbial second option. Only time will tell.

Underdog · 02-24-2011, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

It's yet to be seen whether or not this team needs the proverbial second option. Only time will tell.

Fair enough - let's see what time tells us...

CadBane · 02-24-2011, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

He spreads the floor and can get his shot off in a micro-second. For him, spotting up and creating are the same thing.

And don't give me this "3rd or 4th option" crap. Everybody on this team other than Cardinal and DoJo can put up 20+ points in a game, so we don't need the proverbial "2nd option" - we have 8 different guys who can step up to fill that need on any given night.

There IS a huge difference between having a true #2 and several #3s and #4s. Terry can be reduced to nothing in the playoffs. Kidd can. Prime Peja could. We've seen it before. How did Terry and Kidd fare in the last two years of the playoffs?

There's a marked difference between being capable of scoring 20 points in a game and being a #2 option.

We don't have a true #2, which will most likely be our demise. Our offensive cast is certainly deeper than last year, but in the playoffs it's much easier to handle #3 and #4 options.

Dtownsfinest · 02-24-2011, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

There IS a huge difference between having a true #2 and several #3s and #4s. Terry can be reduced to nothing in the playoffs. Kidd can. Prime Peja could. We've seen it before. How did Terry and Kidd fare in the last two years of the playoffs?

There's a marked difference between being capable of scoring 20 points in a game and being a #2 option.

We don't have a true #2, which will most likely be our demise. Our offensive cast is certainly deeper than last year, but in the playoffs it's much easier to handle #3 and #4 options.

I agree. And you know maybe Terry turns it around this year. Maybe Peja plays like vintage Peja. But I didn't want to have to take a chance and pray for those guys to have their jump shots falling because we know that rim gets a lot smaller come playoff time.

LonghornDub · 02-24-2011, 02:48 PM

These ideas are novel and not currently being discussed in any other threads.

EricaLubarsky · 02-24-2011, 02:53 PM

bad troll is bad.

mavs777 · 02-24-2011, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

bad troll is bad.

I don't see him as a troll, he brings up legitimate points.

JET_31 · 02-24-2011, 02:57 PM

And guys...I'm not even trolling. This is exactly why most decent mav fans congregate on other boards like Spurstalk because they choose not to be around blind homerism. I've been registered on this board since 06 so I'm hardly a troll. I address needs that obviously need to be met and I immediately get flamed and a little "red mark" next to my name. Can we not be a little unbiased and have a real discussion, or is that above all of you?

LonghornDub · 02-24-2011, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET_31

And guys...I'm not even trolling. This is exactly why most decent mav fans congregate on other boards like Spurstalk because they choose not to be around blind homerism. I've been registered on this board since 06 so I'm hardly a troll. I address needs that obviously need to be met and I immediately get flamed and a little "red mark" next to my name. Can we not be a little unbiased and have a real discussion, or is that above all of you?

You realize that many, many people on this board have made the exact same criticisms you're making now? Myself included.

Yep, blind homerism rampant. Everyone here thinks the Mavs are winning the title. Let's all sit in a circle and talk about how great we are.

And LOL at your claim that "most decent mav fans" congregate on Spurstalk. The Mavs fans over there, for the most part, are hilarious trolls (to their credit) and bitter potbangers. That's it.

JET_31 · 02-24-2011, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

You realize that many, many people on this board have made the exact same criticisms you're making now? Myself included.

Yep, blind homerism rampant. Everyone here thinks the Mavs are winning the title. Let's all sit in a circle and talk about how great we are.

And LOL at your claim that "most decent mav fans" congregate on Spurstalk. The Mavs fans over there, for the most part, are hilarious trolls (to their credit) and bitter potbangers. That's it.

I'm sorry i don't live on these boards 24/7 in order to know what all here has been discussed in various threads over the past months. I came here and made a trade about the trade deadline and it being ignorant to stand pat on the DAY of the trade deadline and I get flamed for it. I see.

LonghornDub · 02-24-2011, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET_31

I'm sorry i don't live on these boards 24/7 in order to know what all here has been discussed in various threads over the past months. I came here and made a trade about the trade deadline and it being ignorant to stand pat on the DAY of the trade deadline and I get flamed for it. I see.

It's not an issue of whether you "live on these boards." If you read them regularly at all, you would know that the issue has been discussed time and time again.

You are getting "flamed" because you don't regularly read here yet decided to start a thread discussing something that's been discussed ad nauseum.

dude1394 · 02-24-2011, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET_31

I'm sorry i don't live on these boards 24/7 in order to know what all here has been discussed in various threads over the past months. I came here and made a trade about the trade deadline and it being ignorant to stand pat on the DAY of the trade deadline and I get flamed for it. I see.

Ah deal with it, don't whine about it.

JamesVE · 02-24-2011, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET_31

I'm sorry i don't live on these boards 24/7 in order to know what all here has been discussed in various threads over the past months. I came here and made a trade about the trade deadline and it being ignorant to stand pat on the DAY of the trade deadline and I get flamed for it. I see.

I hear ya. I've been here for going on 7 years (and admittedly don't live on here either) and post in one thread that Dirk doesn't try to rebound like he should/is capable of and got flamed for being an "idiot troll" blahblahblah

I've found that the key to fitting in and not have to deal with any of this "rep" nonsense is to truly believe that Dirk sh*ts gold and that JJ Barea is the worst basketball player on the face of the earth

xrobx · 02-24-2011, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesVE

I hear ya. I've been here for going on 7 years (and admittedly don't live on here either) and post in one thread that Dirk doesn't try to rebound like he should/is capable of and got flamed for being an "idiot troll" blahblahblah

I've found that the key to fitting in and not have to deal with any of this "rep" nonsense is to truly believe that Dirk sh*ts gold and that JJ Barea is the worst basketball player on the face of the earth

on the contrary, i give positive rep to anyone who speaks highly of JJB.

EricaLubarsky · 02-24-2011, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET_31

And guys...I'm not even trolling. This is exactly why most decent mav fans congregate on other boards like Spurstalk because they choose not to be around blind homerism. I've been registered on this board since 06 so I'm hardly a troll. I address needs that obviously need to be met and I immediately get flamed and a little "red mark" next to my name. Can we not be a little unbiased and have a real discussion, or is that above all of you?

Fans believe in their team, stay optimistic beyond reason, support their team no matter what.

And now you come to the DM.com board and make claims that we cant win when there is nothing to be done. I think most people here would agree that this team is one of the best we've ever put out there but not without glaring weak spots. We, as fans, are optimistic that we can work with what we have and whats the point in complaining or being pessimistic if they cant?

sefant77 · 02-24-2011, 03:05 PM

EricaLubarsky · 02-24-2011, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

thank you, thank you. I take credit for that.

Bayliss · 02-24-2011, 03:07 PM

My aliases are getting out of control.

EricaLubarsky · 02-24-2011, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET_31

Seriously think that we can contend for a championship as constructed? All year long I've harped and harped on the fact that we need a reliable #2 option who can create in the half court whenever the tempo slows down in the playoffs and it becomes a half court game. We've seen time and time again that Dirk + a bunch of 3's and 4's doesn't work whenever teams key in on him and try to make everyone else beat them..but it seems like they aren't even trying to make a move happen? We need a little size at the wing as our undersized backcourt (jet, barea, beaubois) is probably the only thing keeping us from being an elite defensive team. Why are we not going after stephen jackson or bust? Let's be serious, we have about a 2 year window before Kidd declines and while Dirk will age nicely, it was apparent during his injury just how RELIANT this team is on him. The day Dirk slips up a the tiniest bit and can no longer carry the team on his back all by himself, the very day that he goes from an MVP candidate to just another star like what's happened to Duncan, our window is closed. We owe it to the man to make these last 2 count.

I dont think most people here disagree with your ideas

but coming in holier-than-thou and incredulous, pretending that everyone here on the DM.com boards is a "blind homer" and being critical of the team we love when there is nothing to be done....well I'm incredulous that you would honestly think we'd welcome you to the forum with open arms and respect your opinions

CadBane · 02-24-2011, 03:15 PM

Man you guys are clueless. The OP is clearly not a troll. He makes a lot of cogent points. As Longhorn said, they aren't novel and many agree with these points which are often debated in other threads. But how are you blasting him for stating what is a real issue?

LonghornDub · 02-24-2011, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Man you guys are clueless. The OP is clearly not a troll. He makes a lot of cogent points. As Longhorn said, they aren't novel and many agree with these points which are often debated in other threads. But how are you blasting him for stating what is a real issue?

He's certainly not a troll. But I don't blame people for not taking kindly to this approach more generally.

JET_31 · 02-24-2011, 03:20 PM

I apologize for coming in like I was attacking..just a little frustrated with our FO is all. After the terrible move Boston just made in dealing away Perkins, it's even more likely that whoever comes out of the West will meet Miami in the finals. Gerald Wallace would have been a great addition to throw at Wade and Lebron.

Underdog · 02-24-2011, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET_31

I apologize for coming in like I was attacking..just a little frustrated with our FO is all. After the terrible move Boston just made in dealing away Perkins, it's even more likely that whoever comes out of the West will meet Miami in the finals. Gerald Wallace would have been a great addition to throw at Wade and Lebron.

We're 2-0 against Miami.

thereaper · 02-24-2011, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

We're 2-0 against Miami.

Facts do not exist in this dojo.

CadBane · 02-24-2011, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

We're 2-0 against Miami.

We were 2-0 against Miami in 2005-2006...

Underdog · 02-24-2011, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

We were 2-0 against Miami in 2005-2006...

Zinger!

(wait, what the fvck does 2005-2006 have to do with anything?)

CadBane · 02-24-2011, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Zinger!

(wait, what the fvck does 2005-2006 have to do with anything?)

That regular season record against a team is irrelevant? Considering you stated our 2-0 record against Miami this year as proof we could handle them in the Finals, I'd say the response is rather apropos.

deamon · 02-24-2011, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

We're 2-0 against Miami.

And 0-2 against CHI, so does it mean Bulls are better then Mavs? RS doesn't count. Let's see what Mavs can do in PO this year.

jcm28 · 02-24-2011, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deamon

And 0-2 against CHI, so does it mean Bulls are better then Mavs? RS doesn't count. Let's see what Mavs can do in PO this year.

tbf, Chicago has a deeper team than miami, and they just got Noah back. Plus, few guys in the mavs (much less PG's) can defend DRose.

Still, the playoffs will be extremely interesting. Seriously can't wait.

Go mavs.

LonghornDub · 02-24-2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET_31

I apologize for coming in like I was attacking..just a little frustrated with our FO is all. After the terrible move Boston just made in dealing away Perkins, it's even more likely that whoever comes out of the West will meet Miami in the finals. Gerald Wallace would have been a great addition to throw at Wade and Lebron.

I can't speak for anyone else, but apology accepted.

Consider posting more in the existing threads about your thoughts. You will find that a lot of folks agree with you re: not having a #2 option.

SMC0007 · 02-24-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I can't speak for anyone else, but apology accepted.

Consider posting more in the existing threads about your thoughts. You will find that a lot of folks agree with you re: not having a #2 option.

At least until you know if something is being discussed ad nauseum in a few other threads

LonghornDub · 02-24-2011, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

At least until you know if something is being discussed ad nauseum in a few other threads

Perhaps there are some issues that deserve to be discussed until we are all vomiting from exhaustion of discussing them.

Male30Dan · 02-24-2011, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I can't speak for anyone else, but apology accepted.

Consider posting more in the existing threads about your thoughts. You will find that a lot of folks agree with you re: not having a #2 option.

I moved him back to green.

Dtownsfinest · 02-24-2011, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JET_31

I apologize for coming in like I was attacking..just a little frustrated with our FO is all. After the terrible move Boston just made in dealing away Perkins, it's even more likely that whoever comes out of the West will meet Miami in the finals. Gerald Wallace would have been a great addition to throw at Wade and Lebron.

I understand your frustration. I guess we just have to sit here and see how things go but while I think we will end this season with a great record I just don't see that guy that will step up along aside Dirk when we need points and JET and Barea are jacking up shots that aren't falling in.