The Official: Dirk Nowitzki Watch: Thread

[Epitome22]

NOTE Since the recent trend of "watch" threads have been springing up. I thought I would get one started that is devoted to the Mavs best and most talented player. The one that excites and frustrates us the most.

This is the Official Dirk Nowitzki watch thread. In this thread we will contribute our thoughts, speculations, appraisals, criticisms etc. of Dirk as the season unfolds. If you have a thought you would like to share about Dirk Nowitzki, please place it in this thread. If you or someone else posts something Dirk related in another thread, and you feel it had some value or merit to it, please feel free to transcribe the same post here for a more thorough consensus. Anyhing Dirk related is welcome but for sport and fan's sake, let's avoid stuff like "Dirk is Hot!" or "who is Dirk dating right now" etc.

[Epitome22]

Some VERY early season thoughts regarding Dirk.


The NBA season has barely stretched it's legs from it's long off-season hibernation and already from the first few Mavs games I've watched, Dirk's play has interested me.

The whole of Mavs play so far seems awkward and unfamiliar to me and Dirk has contributed to that in his own special way. I was surprised and excited to not just see a Dirk who has more possessions when he's around the basket, but a Dirk who had most of his possessions around the basket. In my mind this is just a continuation of my tentative speculation of Dirk, evolving into a player that's a 7 foot ball handling freak who can shoot the lights out from anywhere and occasionally get you a basket inside, into a player who predominantly...well...Dominates in the high post and around the basket, who draws fouls and who's uncanny shooting ability from outside, becomes just another tool in his arsenal as opposed to his primary weapon. His play around the basket has improved too. Last season we just saw glimpses of what Dirk was capable of doing with the ball in his hands around the paint.

There were times during last season where Dirk was continually fed the ball around the basket and he clearly wasn't comfortable around that area and his from was virtually non existant, yet somehow he continually found a way to get the ball in the basket and slowly but surely, hints of form began to show from his exercises. This season so far he still doesen't have what I'd call a classic post form and moves, but I noticed in his play around the basket that he looks much more practiced and polished around that area. His moves sleeker, his finishes a little prettier. He reminds me of Kevin Garnetts game around the basket, not a classic post move type of a guy with special footwork, pivots, and a go to shot, but a guy who everytime he gets the ball around the basket, looks like he's done it quite a few times before and from athleticism and determination, finds a way to put the ball in the basket. Dirk's 3 point shot hasn't gotten it's steadiness so far this season. I'm quite sure it will start falling once Dirk gets in the groove of things and used to his new aerodynamic haircut (heh). The things I noticed was that The Dirk from 2 seasons ago or even last season, would get frustrated and distracted if his outside shot wasn't falling. So far the Dirk of this season, upon noticing the shakiness of his outside jumper,seems reacting to it more like a pitcher who's curveball wasn't working great that night. Like a Larry Bird who when his jumper wasn't money that night, sucked it up and dug himself a spot in the post as he did quite a few times.


On a sidebar note. Dirk is moving well, at least on the offensive end. Perhaps the most athletic I've ever seen him be. I disapproved when Dirk shed the bulk he aquired 2 seasons ago and played with a much leaner frame last season. Maybe it's just the haircut but I think he's most effective with the long, lanky, slightly built frame he has now then any other he possessed before. On another side note, This news from Mavsfanfinley's report about Dirk being mad intrigues me. It's not often when Dirk gets mad and he always seems to play well when he is angry and flat out motivated. I always watned Dirk to toughen up more in the conventional sense but Dirk laying a lard foul on somebody? that exceeded even my expecations. The report of him jabbering with NVE on the sidelines is interesting too. If Dirk is trading sidebars with another player and it doesen't stem from a "stop pushing me!, I'm gonna tell!!" motivational standpoint like it sometimes does, then that means Dirk is being more assertive and aggressive. If trading barbs witha sour grapes Nick is what it takes to bring the leader out of Dirk then I'm all for it. The Minute Dirk says even something to the equivalant of "This is My Team then I will have my own private celebration.

[Murphy3]

Epitome, I'd agree with much of that.

A couple of questions for you..

What do you think of his defense so far?
and
What impact do you think Dirk almost exclusively playing PF and C on the defensive end will have on:
1. his rebounding
2. his offensive game

[Epitome22]

Defensively I haven't seen too much that was different from last season, though it is early. Just as it is a mystery to some how a guy who moves so fluidly and quick on offense can be so inadept on defense at times, it's a mystery to me how Dirk works in the defensive mode. Sometimes, like the game against L.A. he looks confused out there. His defensive woes that game, like they are most of time time, stem more from seemingly poor defensive instincts I.E. Being in the wrong place, missing a switch off, being lost etc. than any physical inability to defend. Yet somehow, Dirk is quite the defensive playmaker for someone who is so allegedly poor on defense, be that bad defensive instincts, physical inability or both. It seems like you can always count on Dirk to be there for a surprise block or a momentum changing steal. This is a guy who led the team in steals last season with 1.39 per game. Not bad for a Power Forward. I believe he was one of only 15 players last season to average both a block and a steal per game. This season he looks like he's up to his old tricks already with 4 steals and 5 blocked shots.

As far as what effect Dirk exclusivly being a 4 and even having to pinch hit at Center half the time will have on his game, so far the results have been positive. In fact, I should have recognized it sooner. Dirk's playing closer to the basket is probably a natural consequence of him playing big forward and Center. Playing around the basket has put him, the best rebounder on the team, in a position to grab even more rebounds, including some on the offensive end which is something surprising and new. Dirk's lackluster offensive rebounding numbers were always a consequence of him playing the perimeter on the offensive end. I don't support a campaign that has Dirk playing center for more than 10 mins a game in pinch situations but I think it's possible he'll average 12-12.5 rebounds a game this season. My only concern would be how he scores against other centers but so far that hasn't been a problem. If they stick the other team's 4 on him he seems more confident to match him head on around the basket. If they have a legitimate center on him then he'll probably make him work by using his speed against him and drawing him out of the paint. So far Dirk has played the "shooting center who draws other centers out of the paint" role far better than Raef, who was supposed to do just that, ever did.

[Murphy3]

I think Dirk is a better defender than he's given credit for when he's stuck at the PF spot. But, at the center spot, he can be outmuscled by many of the bigger players. At the SF spot, he's not quick enough at times.

As for what I've seen so far out of Dirk defensively..well, it's really too early to tell. I thought he did a rather poor job in the zone defense when playing LA (as did pretty much all mavs). But, I thought he was rather solid against GS. The only issue with GS was on the glass. As I've mentioned, I believe Dirk might struggle a bit when a bigger center can push him around a bit on the glass. That was the case at times last night against Dampier. But, Dampier pretty much did that against anyone that played the center position for the Mavs last night. What does that tell me about Dirk defensively? Play him at the PF spot as often as possible (although I do think there will be several teams that Dirk will be able to play more than 5-10 minutes at the center spot... but, those really aren't the teams that i'm concerned about)

Offensively, Dirk just needs to be around the bucket more. He either needs to be posted up more or he needs to drive and/or slash more (more as in compared to last year).

If he's matched up with any center in the NBA, he can draw them outside and either hit the jumper or drive around them at will.

If he's matched up with a PF..dirk will have to use a combination of posting up, driving, and utilizing the jumper.

If he's matched up against a SF.. dirk needs to be posted up all game long.


but, good posts epitome

[jayC]

I agree with what you said murph. I would like to see Dirk focus on being a great post scorer not so much a three point shooter. The mavs are much more dynamic when Dirk is taking opposing big men off the dribble or punishing them in the post. Id like to see the hook shot that he was supposedly working on in the offseason. Although maybe Walker can teach him that. Those two play off each other very well. I will be excited to see this team gel. I also believe that Nelson finally gets it, give the ball to dirk.

[Psychedelic Fuzz]

vote every day. collectively we can send Walker back to the eastern conference all-star team.

[dirno2000]

The funny thing is, if you were to ask Dirk he would admit that he hasn't been himself this year. I also doubt he would run down a list of excuses like those who shill who him on this board.

The most empty excuse is the "playing center is hurting Dirk's game" argument. On offense he plays nothing like a center. He spends less time in the post than Walker and Jamison.

On defense Nellie is trying to hide him like he always does. He typically places Dirk on the weaker of the opponents 4/5. For instance, when we played Portland, Dirk started on Dale Davis. Not because Davis was the center, but because Davis was an easier match up for Dirk then Randolph. When Nellie played the big-5 against LA, Walker, not Dirk guarded Shaq.

The reason Dirk sometimes gets in foul trouble is that he gets lazy and plays defense with his hands instead of his feet and body. Do you want him guarding the other teams SF so he can go by Dirk all day?

There’s really no reason to mindlessly defend Dirk. Unlike Finley and Walker there is no anti-Dirk faction on the board. Only those who look at him through Mavs colored glasses and those who don’t.

[ReDIRKulous]

If someone was totally biased in their support of Dirk would they start a thread like this: my thread

And having created this thread and seeing Dirk's stats decline... I can still say that Dirk was carrying this team before his injury. He was struggling with his threes, but other than that He is performing about the same as last season at this same time. His rebounding numbers are down... but I don't believe that is an accurate representation of Dirk's performance considering that the teams rebounding has dramatically improved.

[Chiwas]

FORGIVE US, DIRK, FORGIVE US!

YOU'RE DA MAN!

[mavs_afroman]

Right now, Walker has been better. That's one good reason for the 13-8 record. Dirk needs to step up and do the job but he hasn't yet and for some reason he doesn't seem all that passionate about playing. Last year, he started the seaon in a shooting slump but his rebounds went up to about 12per and you could see him trying to get to the goal ans work his way out of the slump and when he did he was awesome. This year, he seems content to sit back and watch. He's the difference maker. If he'll step up and start playing hard again that Mavs can be even better than last year because of all the new talent but without that they're not nearly as good.

[dirno2000]

Shaq does demand the ball. If the offense shifts too far away from him, he's the 1st to bring it to Phill's attention. It's not as much of a problem this year with a veteran PG, but that offense never goes too far away from Shaq.

[dude1394]

I have always been leary of dirks lack of aggressiveness. I really think it is cultural and I'm afraid nothing will ever change. I hope I'm wrong, he can compete his rear off, run his rear off, take a smack in the chops and come right back.

I thought I saw some screaming from him last year a little bit and maybe he's letting it go because the rest of the team is still wacked out (stevie in particular). But it is a concern.

[dude1394]

As far as best player on the team between walker and dirk. Walker has been a very nice addition and his rebounding has been great. I don't quite think he's been better than dirk however.

- Shooting percentage really is NOT good.
- FT's stink.


Dirk's still leading the team in scoring, leading the team in blocks and one less assist than the shooting guard (yuck. ;^).

This may be a good discussion to have all year. Walks FT's HAVE to improve or he will be getting the hack-a-walk treatment and be quite a detriment at the end of games.

[seelenjaeger]

duh ... wrong thread ... EDIT

[Novice#41]

dirk is definitely not a wolf in sheep's clothing ! and he won't never be like this...

[dirno2000]

IMO The only negative that can be taken from Friday night is Dirks performance in the final five minutes or so. He had that deer in the headlights look that I haven’t seen since last years December meltdown. I wasn’t taking notes on the game, nor did I tape it, but these are the play involving Dirk that stick out in my mind.

1) He gets the ball in the high post and makes a weak pass that is stolen and leads to a Lakers break.

2) Dirk and Walk run the pick and roll, Walk passes to Dirk and he alligator arms the pass which leads to a turnover.

3) Another pick and roll, Walk attempts to pass the ball to Dirk who obviously wants no part of it. Walk drives to the basket and is called for a push off around the FT line.

4) Pick and roll yet again and Dirk is so open he has to take the ball. He’s woefully short on an open 14 footer from the baseline (or what I like to call a layup for Dirk).

Bottom line: Walker was trying to defer, but Dirk wanted no part of it. Now, because of Dirk’s history in LA and because he’s been so clutch for the past few years, I’m not going to panic about this. It was, however, discouraging in that that’s a situation where you want your leader to say “give me the damn ball, they’re not coming back” and he didn’t.

[LRB]

Dirno I have to agree with you on all your points. The only possible "excuse" I could see was Dirk was gassed. He played I believe 46 minutes in only his 2nd game back after a lengthy time off for injury. He's still probably not 100% in shape. Still I would have expected a little more at the end, tired or not.

[ReDIRKulous]

Dirk played 46 minutes. Was 10 of 22 from the field - 45%. 1 of 2 from 3 point range. 12 rebounds. 5 assists. 1 steal and 1 block. Considering he was coming back from an injury and only had like 9 points in the previous game that is an amazing performance. Also...w e are heading into Nick Van Exel territory here... we need to remember that Walker is the guy that benefits from Dirk being on the floor. Dirk has Devean George guarding him... while Antoine Walker has Shaq or MAlone guarding him. If those guys were guarding Dirk all game he would have gone for 60 points. lol

[Walkerforthree]

Originally posted by: dirno2000
IMO The only negative that can be taken from Friday night is Dirks performance in the final five minutes or so. He had that deer in the headlights look that I haven’t seen since last years December meltdown. I wasn’t taking notes on the game, nor did I tape it, but these are the play involving Dirk that stick out in my mind.

1) He gets the ball in the high post and makes a weak pass that is stolen and leads to a Lakers break.

2) Dirk and Walk run the pick and roll, Walk passes to Dirk and he alligator arms the pass which leads to a turnover.

3) Another pick and roll, Walk attempts to pass the ball to Dirk who obviously wants no part of it. Walk drives to the basket and is called for a push off around the FT line.

4) Pick and roll yet again and Dirk is so open he has to take the ball. He’s woefully short on an open 14 footer from the baseline (or what I like to call a layup for Dirk).

Bottom line: Walker was trying to defer, but Dirk wanted no part of it. Now, because of Dirk’s history in LA and because he’s been so clutch for the past few years, I’m not going to panic about this. It was, however, discouraging in that that’s a situation where you want your leader to say “give me the damn ball, they’re not coming back” and he didn’t.

Bullshit. Two of those play's walker just fucked up and threw the ball away, horrible passes, he choked more then dirk actually. Dirk was grabbing boards too, get a clue. I have re-watched the play's.

[dirno2000]

Originally posted by: Walkerforthree

Bullshit. Two of those play's walker just fucked up and threw the ball away, horrible passes, he choked more then dirk actually. Dirk was grabbing boards too, get a clue. I have re-watched the play's.

What are you talking about? Only one of the four plays I mentioned resulted in a Walker turnover and that was because Dirk clearly didn't want the ball. Since you have the tape I'm sure you saw another play in which Dirk got the ball on the pick and roll and instead of shooting a pretty good shot, he passed it back with Walker.

...and what does the fact that Dirk was still rebounding have to do with the fact that he was avoiding the ball in the last few minutes. I'm sure you think the missed wide-open 14 footer that he usually makes with his eyes closed was due to fatigue.

Hey, I like Dirk too but he's not perfect.

[Walkerforthree]

Originally posted by: dirno2000

What are you talking about? Only one of the four plays I mentioned resulted in a Walker turnover and that was because Dirk clearly didn't want the ball. Since you have the tape I'm sure you saw another play in which Dirk got the ball on the pick and roll and instead of shooting a pretty good shot, he passed it back with Walker.

...and what does the fact that Dirk was still rebounding have to do with the fact that he was avoiding the ball in the last few minutes. I'm sure you think the missed wide-open 14 footer that he usually makes with his eyes closed was due to fatigue.

Hey, I like Dirk too but he's not perfect.

No fool, it wasn't a to because dirk didn't want the ball, it was a TO because walker thre it two feet from his outstreched arms! Oh no, I guess Dirk was just so scared of the ball that he would rather turn it over. Yeah, b/c dirk has never taken over in the 4th (LMAO!) he is so swcared, those 30/15 game 7's mean nothing! LMAO. Mabye he was shying away a bit b/c he had cooled off, or nellie told him to, or he was tired from 46 minutes on a just healed ankle. Think of that? God forbid he miss a open 14 footer, as we all know, other NBA player's never miss wide open J's, lol.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: Walkerforthree
No fool, it wasn't a to because dirk didn't want the ball, it was a TO because walker thre it two feet from his outstreched arms!

Actually, I saw the same thing dirno did. Dirk should have caught the pass.

Oh no, I guess Dirk was just so scared of the ball that he would rather turn it over. Yeah, b/c dirk has never taken over in the 4th (LMAO!) he is so swcared, those 30/15 game 7's mean nothing!

Try staying on subject. We're talking about the Laker game. Whether Dirk has ever taken over in the 4th or how he plays in Game 7s is irrelevant to a discussion of the game on Friday night and what Dirk did on that night.

LMAO. Mabye he was shying away a bit b/c he had cooled off, or nellie told him to, or he was tired from 46 minutes on a just healed ankle. Think of that?

Nellie told him to. That's why they kept trying to get him the ball. Yeah, that makes sense.

If you're a superstar, you don't shy away from the ball whether you've cooled off or not.

The tired/rusty argument is what I personally think happened. But that's still an excuse for the guy.

God forbid he miss a open 14 footer, as we all know, other NBA player's never miss wide open J's, lol.

I don't care if he misses shots. That happens. But I care if he doesn't want to shoot them.

[dirno2000]

No fool, it wasn't a to because dirk didn't want the ball, it was a TO because walker thre it two feet from his outstreched arms! Oh no, I guess Dirk was just so scared of the ball that he would rather turn it over. Yeah, b/c dirk has never taken over in the 4th (LMAO!) he is so swcared, those 30/15 game 7's mean nothing! LMAO. Mabye he was shying away a bit b/c he had cooled off, or nellie told him to, or he was tired from 46 minutes on a just healed ankle. Think of that? God forbid he miss a open 14 footer, as we all know, other NBA player's never miss wide open J's, lol.

I was going to write a long thoughtful response to this when it occured to me: it really doesn't matter what I say. You love Dirk so much that in your eye's he can do no wrong. In the unlikely event that he does do something wrong, it's either Nellie or Walkers fault. I think that sums it up.

[dirno2000]

Overall Dirk had a great game, but that doesn't excuse his shying away from the ball in the closing minutes.

Also, Dirk is 5 inches taller than Devean George. He has just as big of an advantage against George as Walker has against Shaq and Malone.

[ReDIRKulous]

Overall Dirk had a great game, but that doesn't excuse his shying away from the ball in the closing minutes.

LA is a pretty good defensive team if you weren't aware. And Dirk is the focal point of the LA defense. Just like when Nick went off.. it was because the defense was always keyed on Dirk. Nash also had the brunt of the defense on him as well.

Also, Dirk is 5 inches taller than Devean George. He has just as big of an advantage against George as Walker has against Shaq and Malone.

Not with Shaq or Malone providing help defense in the post. Shaq had 8 blocks the other day. Dirk was bound to cool off after how hot he was early on. I don't think you can really ask for more from Dirk that night without being tremendously greedy.

[dirno2000]

LA is a pretty good defensive team if you weren't aware. And Dirk is the focal point of the LA defense. Just like when Nick went off.. it was because the defense was always keyed on Dirk. Nash also had the brunt of the defense on him as well.

So Nash and Dirk had the brunt of the defense on them while Walker was allowed to run free? And you say this because...oh yea, you love Dirk and Nash. They were'nt doubling Dirk so I'm not sure what you mean by saying he was the focal point of the defense. I really don't see how you could watch the last five minutes of that game and not tell that Dirk looked shell shocked. I'm not suprised though.

Not with Shaq or Malone providing help defense in the post. Shaq had 8 blocks the other day. Dirk was bound to cool off after how hot he was early on. I don't think you can really ask for more from Dirk that night without being tremendously greedy.

I don't mind Dirk cooling off, that's bound to happen, especially when you play 46 minutes (blame Nellie for that). I want him to still demand the ball and be agressive. If you can't hit the jump shot, go to the hole. He can go by Bryan Russell all day. When I see him not wanting the ball and when he get's it missing open 14 foot shots which are like layups to him, I become concerned.

[ReDIRKulous]

Oh... so you are being "concerned", not greedy? lol Ok. That makes more sense.

Well you probably should be concerned. Dirk's ankle probably tightend up after playing so long. But I don't blame Nellie. Just having Dirk on the floor is a game changer. We saw how Dirk being off the floor totally changes this team... especially Walker's game.

[mavsman]

They always told me that you need at least as much time to recuperate as you needed to heal. So 27/12 and a little rust at the end of 46 mins after having been 2 weeks off look pretty good to me. But of course there has to be someone around who hasn't had ankle problems as of yet and has to nitpick. Yeah, he looked hesitant, yeah, he dropped 27 and 12 on them in his second game back. Sure, 55 and 29 would look better, but you wouldn't be satisfied because there was room for improvement.

[dirno2000]

Although he didn't play great, I don't think giving Jamison 6-8 of Dirks minutes would have cost us the game. Especially when you look at some of the lineups that Phill threw out there in the 2nd quarter.

[grndmstr_c]

AJ fouled out.

[dirno2000]

Only because of hack a Shaq.

[ReDIRKulous]

Where are you old dead head? We need you to teach the ways of the center to young dirk!

[ReDIRKulous]

"So what! I have had a couple bad games... it happens!"

[ReDIRKulous]

A lot of you guys have probably seen this... but I hadn't...



Dirk's sister



Dirk's girlfriend. I don't know if he is still daitng her or not..

[dude1394]

Last I heard he was dating a mavs cheerleader.

[dirno2000]

Can we put the rest the argument that Dirk having to play center is killing his game. The Kings are one of the few teams in the league with two legitimate centers so tonight Dirk had to actually bang with the big boys and it didn't seem to affect his offense in the 2nd half. Conversely, Dirk playing center created a mismatch on the offensive end which enabled him to blow by his man (Brad Miller) for the game winning assist.

[Bayliss]

Can we put the rest the argument that Dirk having to play center is killing his game. The Kings are one of the few teams in the league with two legitimate centers so tonight Dirk had to actually bang with the big boys and it didn't seem to affect his offense in the 2nd half. Conversely, Dirk playing center created a mismatch on the offensive end which enabled him to blow by his man (Brad Miller) for the game winning assist.

Actually, it isn't killing his game as it is killing the Mavericks defense. Because Dirk is better at playing the passing lanes than he is at shotblocking. And forcing Dirk at center, you are telling him to be a shotblocker. The Mavs did not play a lot of zone tonight. And that helped tremendously. The Kings are not a "banging" team. That helped tremendously.

Dirk at center in the long run is not the solution for this team. Not because Dirk can't be good offensively. It is because Dallas can't be good defensively.

[Walkerforthree]

Originally posted by: Bayliss

Actually, it isn't killing his game as it is killing the Mavericks defense. Because Dirk is better at playing the passing lanes than he is at shotblocking. And forcing Dirk at center, you are telling him to be a shotblocker. The Mavs did not play a lot of zone tonight. And that helped tremendously. The Kings are not a "banging" team. That helped tremendously.

Dirk at center in the long run is not the solution for this team. Not because Dirk can't be good offensively. It is because Dallas can't be good defensively.

I agree, the man to man helped big-time, I loathe the zone. This game also further verify's when dirk gets minutes and touches, he's great.

[dirno2000]

I agree with that, but I've read countless arguments on this site (some coming from you) listing Dirk's having to play center as one of the reasons he's been struggling.