03-30-2007, 10:06 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5
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Could this Mavs team win the title with fill-in-blank in place of Dirk?
I'm not hating on Dirk or anything, but I really think that Kobe, with his skills on offense and defense, can get the Mavs to the title and win it.
Kobe's game is multi-faceted; he can shoot from the perimeter or pump fake and drive to the basket. If fouled he hits his free throws with regularity. He can post, high post or low post, and if double, he can kick it to the open man or back it out to the 3 point line and hit 3. Of course Dirk can do all of these things but i think Kobe does them better.I also feel Kobe is a better late game player; we all know he's had great finishes like the playoffs last year. Dirk is great but I can't see him scoring 50 points 4 straight games, 81 points in a single game, or 63 in 3 quarters in a game in which he just about single handedly beat us. I know many people, especially on this forum, don't like Kobe but you have to respect his game. Just think about it before bombing on me.
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03-30-2007, 10:18 PM
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#2
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cowboys Country
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Who would play the four?
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04-04-2007, 07:13 PM
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#3
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
Who would play the four?
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Trade Terry for the best possible 4. I don't have an idea on who that would be as I don't have a list with me right now.
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03-30-2007, 10:18 PM
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#4
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albigensian
I'm not hating on Dirk or anything, but I really think that Kobe, with his skills on offense and defense, can get the Mavs to the title and win it.
Kobe's game is multi-faceted; he can shoot from the perimeter or pump fake and drive to the basket. If fouled he hits his free throws with regularity. He can post, high post or low post, and if double, he can kick it to the open man or back it out to the 3 point line and hit 3. Of course Dirk can do all of these things but i think Kobe does them better.I also feel Kobe is a better late game player; we all know he's had great finishes like the playoffs last year. Dirk is great but I can't see him scoring 50 points 4 straight games, 81 points in a single game, or 63 in 3 quarters in a game in which he just about single handedly beat us. I know many people, especially on this forum, don't like Kobe but you have to respect his game. Just think about it before bombing on me.
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Kobe is a guard, Dirk is a forward... stupid post bro. But to answer your question, I'd take Dirk over Kobe 100 times out of 100
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03-30-2007, 10:18 PM
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#5
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 371
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double post
Last edited by robo98564; 03-30-2007 at 10:21 PM.
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03-30-2007, 10:20 PM
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#6
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,250
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Respect what he can do 1 on 1, but its a team game and they wont get anywhere in the playoffs if he has to do all tht while Dirk and Mavs will.
__________________
"It feels disrespectful when you watch these shows, TNT, ESPN, and they're talking, 'Walk through the Mavericks, that's who you want to play," Terry said. "OK. We'll see if that's who you want to play."
........GO MAVS
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03-30-2007, 10:22 PM
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#7
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,189
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Honestly, Kobe is probably better than Dirk. That being said, to win in the playoffs you need to play a team game, and Dirk is MUCH better at that. Dirk fits in much better and I would not trade him for anyone in the league.
__________________
"He's as valuable as anyone. The most unusual thing is that they lose last year's MVP and still get better. It's unheard of."
"For a team as good as the Mavs, the regular season is just 82 practice games until the real season begins." -G-Man
"We wanted this for Dirk because of his heart, his class, his work ethic, his humility, his sense of humor, his respect for the game, and his respect for people."
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03-30-2007, 10:29 PM
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#8
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cowboys Country
Posts: 23,336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13
Honestly, Kobe is probably better than Dirk. That being said, to win in the playoffs you need to play a team game, and Dirk is MUCH better at that. Dirk fits in much better and I would not trade him for anyone in the league.
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Not at all to dismiss Dirk, but the Kobe has *already* won three titles in a row.
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03-30-2007, 10:33 PM
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#9
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 8,195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
Not at all to dismiss Dirk, but the Kobe has *already* won three titles in a row.
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on shaqs coattails.
Dirk would have won those three in a row, and then several more, cause he wouldn't have run his meal ticket off to the other side of the country.
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03-30-2007, 10:28 PM
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#10
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Irving
Posts: 2,733
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I think Kobe would disrupt the chemistry of the team. I'm not sure if I would call him selfish, but I think he basically forces players around him to tune their game to him. I'd expect to see the respective games of players like Terry, Howard, and Harris to suffer if the Mavs replaced Kobe with Dirk, and thus, no, I don't think the Mavs would be able to win the title in this scenario. And that's not even addressing the issue of who would play the 4 on this particular team.
Just my opinion.
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03-30-2007, 10:32 PM
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#11
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moderately impressed
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Home of the thirteenth colony
Posts: 17,705
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Although quite different players indeed, but I think my stomach would churn if Kobe was a Maverick like it did everytime I had to endure Walker playing in a Maverick uniform.
If we were winning titles that would probably solve that, but who would be our 4? Croshere?
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03-30-2007, 10:33 PM
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#12
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 171
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Dirk is this year's MVP and draws other players to accept lesser roles to compete for championships.
The only other players I can think of that have that kind of effect are Shaq and Duncan.
Kobe isnt on that list.
Dirk and Bryant will have some battles in the near future for the conference, but as of now, Dirk is the superior player with the ability to lead a superior team.
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03-30-2007, 10:33 PM
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#13
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Golden Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: In The Paint
Posts: 1,897
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I think this is a ridiculous thread. It could never happen and why would I want a questionalble citizen at the least, on this Mavericks team??!! If you want this franchised destroyed try to bring in Cobe.
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03-30-2007, 10:41 PM
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#14
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by left texas
I think this is a ridiculous thread.
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Let's leave it at that. Lock the thread.
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03-30-2007, 10:35 PM
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#15
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Troll Hunter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sports Heaven!
Posts: 9,898
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That's the only change?
Swap out Kobe and Dirk?
What a stupid question.
The team would be incredibley lopsided and Austin Croshere would be the power forward.
The answer is no.
Quote:
Dirk is great but I can't see him scoring 50 points 4 straight games, 81 points in a single game, or 63 in 3 quarters in a game in which he just about single handedly beat us
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What exactly did those scoring efforts get Kobe? Any closer to a championship?
Seriously, this is stupidity of epic proportions.
Congratulations.
__________________
"I don't know what went wrong," said guard Thabo Sefolosha. "It's hard to talk about it."
Last edited by mary; 03-30-2007 at 10:41 PM.
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03-30-2007, 10:42 PM
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#16
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Robot Hell, NJ
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I don't know. People seem to take it as a given that Kobe's the best in the game. The thing ins, even when he was surrounded with talent and winning titles, was never as efficient as Dirk is now. I guess you could argue that he's entered his prime and, if given Dirk's supporting cast, would be more efficient.
Like Chum said, it would depend on who replaced Dirk at the 4.
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03-30-2007, 10:47 PM
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#17
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 171
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Bryant would need an inside scorer/rebounder/defender on at least the level of Elton Brand or Carlos Boozer to do anything close to what Dirk is doing now.
He would need a partner for the inside/outside game. That's what the Lakers are missing.
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03-30-2007, 10:48 PM
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#18
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Boom goes the Dynamite!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,008
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wow, the idiocracy on this board is at an all time high.
thank you for gracing us with you presence.
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03-30-2007, 10:50 PM
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#19
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,069
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In 2004 the Mavs (52 wins) and Lakers (56 wins) were about even. Then Nash (the MVP) left Dallas without compensation, Shaq left LA for Lamar Odom and Caron Butler.
The following year the Lakers missed the Playoffs and won 34 games, the Mavs won 58. Doesn't that mean anything? Kobe only cares about personal goals, because he got his championships given to him so early. He doesn't care about his team and he doesn't make his team better because he doesn't let them develop as they rarely see the ball.
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03-30-2007, 10:51 PM
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#20
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Irving
Posts: 2,733
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But but but..
Quote:
Originally Posted by albigensian
If fouled he hits his free throws with regularity.
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sorry, albigensian, I had to do it.
Last edited by jleefilled; 03-30-2007 at 10:52 PM.
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03-30-2007, 10:53 PM
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#21
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Troll Hunter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sports Heaven!
Posts: 9,898
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Quote:
we all know he's had great finishes like the playoffs last year.
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The playoffs last year? Didn't Barkley accuse Kobe of quitting during Game 7?
A first round exit is a great finish?
__________________
"I don't know what went wrong," said guard Thabo Sefolosha. "It's hard to talk about it."
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03-30-2007, 10:59 PM
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#22
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cowboys Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mary
The playoffs last year? Didn't Barkley accuse Kobe of quitting during Game 7?
A first round exit is a great finish?
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To call it "quitting" would be to frame it in an incredibly generous light. Not only did he quit on his team, but he showed them up to boot. By my count, he ventured inside the three-point line twice the entire second half. TWICE. He sleepwalked his way through the third and fourth quarters. When passed the ball, he just passed it back. I guess he tossed a few lazy threes up there. But basically, he pulled down his pants and showed his ass.
He is a tremendous player, but he showed his ass that game.
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03-30-2007, 11:03 PM
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#23
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
To call it "quitting" would be to frame it in an incredibly generous light. Not only did he quit on his team, but he showed them up to boot. By my count, he ventured inside the three-point line twice the entire second half. TWICE. He sleepwalked his way through the third and fourth quarters. When passed the ball, he just passed it back. I guess he tossed a few lazy threes up there. But basically, he pulled down his pants and showed his ass.
He is a tremendous player, but he showed his ass that game.
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That was a pitiful performance. Bryant acted like a whiny brat trying to prove to his team that they cant win without him. It was an absolute disgrace and the media neglected to look deeper into it.
Something was happening behind the scenes that we dont know about. That game was unlike anything I've ever seen in sports.
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03-30-2007, 10:53 PM
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#24
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5
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There was a scenario in which the Mavs could've acquired Kobe back in 2004 I believe. Who would play the four though? I don't know but I think the Mavs brain trust would've come up with a live body or something but definitely not Dirk.
As for Kobe being a disruption to the chemistry, well he got along well enough with Shaq to grab a few titles. But isn't what Mavs fans want? A few championships, heck just one would be fine for me.
Kobe did buy into Phil Jackson's system during their title run so it's not inconceivable to see Kobe buy into Avery's philosophy.
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03-30-2007, 11:01 PM
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#25
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albigensian
There was a scenario in which the Mavs could've acquired Kobe back in 2004 I believe. Who would play the four though? I don't know but I think the Mavs brain trust would've come up with a live body or something but definitely not Dirk.
As for Kobe being a disruption to the chemistry, well he got along well enough with Shaq to grab a few titles. But isn't what Mavs fans want? A few championships, heck just one would be fine for me.
Kobe did buy into Phil Jackson's system during their title run so it's not inconceivable to see Kobe buy into Avery's philosophy.
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Hey Lakerfan, Shaq led the Lakers to the Finals. You guys hitched your wagon to the wrong horse.
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03-30-2007, 10:54 PM
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#26
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Troll Hunter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sports Heaven!
Posts: 9,898
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Quote:
There was a scenario in which the Mavs could've acquired Kobe back in 2004 I believe.
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You're high. The only other team Kobe would've signed with was the Clippers.
__________________
"I don't know what went wrong," said guard Thabo Sefolosha. "It's hard to talk about it."
Last edited by mary; 03-30-2007 at 11:02 PM.
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03-30-2007, 10:59 PM
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#27
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 7,788
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Could this Mavs team win the title with Kobe in place of Dirk?
Very probably, No...
But if we had a credible scoring threat at the PF position who could also rebound, and perhaps, play a little bit of defense (say like a David West), we sure as heck would still rank amongst the top few teams in the league in terms of regular season record, and we would be a fearsome draw in the Western conference playoffs...
__________________
What has the sheep to bargain with the wolf?
Last edited by Evilmav2; 03-30-2007 at 10:59 PM.
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03-30-2007, 11:03 PM
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#28
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: TX
Posts: 2,505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albigensian
I'm not hating on Dirk or anything, but I really think that Kobe, with his skills on offense and defense, can get the Mavs to the title and win it.
Kobe's game is multi-faceted; he can shoot from the perimeter or pump fake and drive to the basket. If fouled he hits his free throws with regularity. He can post, high post or low post, and if double, he can kick it to the open man or back it out to the 3 point line and hit 3. Of course Dirk can do all of these things but i think Kobe does them better.I also feel Kobe is a better late game player; we all know he's had great finishes like the playoffs last year. Dirk is great but I can't see him scoring 50 points 4 straight games, 81 points in a single game, or 63 in 3 quarters in a game in which he just about single handedly beat us. I know many people, especially on this forum, don't like Kobe but you have to respect his game. Just think about it before bombing on me.
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Kobe is a highly skilled individual and he is attempting to mature into a team player, however he is a prima-donna in the elk of T.O. and does more harm to his team than good. The main difference between Kobe and Dirk is that Dirk has always and continues to be a Team player and leader on and off the court. Dirk's work ethic has helped to make the rest of the team better. Kobe shows repeatedly that he is out for himself...This is why Shaq left...Kobe basically caused that team to break up...
Not that I mind, as I hate the Lakers, but had Kobe played with Dirk's heart and humbleness, the Lakers may already of had another 3 Championships!!!
At the end of the day, I have never wanted to have Kobe over Dirk and I doubt I ever well...Dirk is one of the greatest players of all time and this will be the first of multiple NBA Championships to come his way.
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03-30-2007, 11:05 PM
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#29
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,224
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Why is every respectable poster on this board feeding the monkey? LOCK THE THREAD
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03-30-2007, 11:23 PM
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#30
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 5
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How about this: Garnett in, Dirk out. Mavs still playing for a title or lottery pick?
Fresh off of the nuking I received for my last thread I'm for more.
Ok, last year after the playoffs, a friend and I had a conversation where he suggested that if the Mavericks had KG instead of Dirk, they would have won the title. Now I know everyone and their dog knows KG will never be sent to the Mavs for Dirk but just hypothetically speaking, what
the f*** if? Sure Dirk is by far the superior perimeter player, but Garnett is a better post player, passer, and rebounder. Both players are great teammates as well as unselfish. One major negative on Garnett though is that late in games, he has a 'way' of not getting the ball and when he does he often passes to a teammate who will not make the big shot. Dirk finds a way to get the ball and hit the big shot or freethrows (tonight's game was a perfect example). Just a thought. Fire when ready....
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03-30-2007, 11:31 PM
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#31
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: La Porte de l'Enfer
Posts: 2,335
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How about this Hitman in albigensian out. Anyone still care?
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03-30-2007, 11:32 PM
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#32
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Troll Hunter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sports Heaven!
Posts: 9,898
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmacomic
How about this Hitman in albigensian out. Anyone still care?
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Sounds good.
I'd even go for a Baylor grad student/albigensian swap.
__________________
"I don't know what went wrong," said guard Thabo Sefolosha. "It's hard to talk about it."
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03-31-2007, 11:39 AM
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#33
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mary
Sounds good.
I'd even go for a Baylor grad student/albigensian swap.
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woah woah woah, why the hate on Baylor??? I didnt do grad work there, but did get my undergrad there haha
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03-30-2007, 11:36 PM
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#34
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Irving, TX
Posts: 642
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03-30-2007, 11:37 PM
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#35
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Guru
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,057
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How about just make one thread for the stupid questions?
Dirk isn't just a better perimeter player than KG, he's a much better offensive player. Dirk is arguably the best the hardest matchup in the league right now. I don't really much if any advantage of KG in the post. Dirk has closed the gap in passing substantially. KG is better defensively, but that gap has closed a great deal as well. With KG we would be a better rebounding team and a better defensive team. However we'd be a much worse offensive team. We'd still be an elite team with KG, but nowhere near as strong a contender as we are with Dirk. Not only is Dirk the overall better player, but this team was built for Dirk, not for KG.
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Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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03-30-2007, 11:58 PM
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#36
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albigensian
Fresh off of the nuking I received for my last thread I'm for more.
Ok, last year after the playoffs, a friend and I had a conversation where he suggested that if the Mavericks had KG instead of Dirk, they would have won the title. Now I know everyone and their dog knows KG will never be sent to the Mavs for Dirk but just hypothetically speaking, what
the f*** if? Sure Dirk is by far the superior perimeter player, but Garnett is a better post player, passer, and rebounder. Both players are great teammates as well as unselfish. One major negative on Garnett though is that late in games, he has a 'way' of not getting the ball and when he does he often passes to a teammate who will not make the big shot. Dirk finds a way to get the ball and hit the big shot or freethrows (tonight's game was a perfect example). Just a thought. Fire when ready....
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Another ridiculous post. Garnett doesn't cause any kind of mismatchs, he causes some doubles. We have a guy who plays him straight up, damp/diop. NO ONE can cover dirk, NO ONE. Garnett is a find player but dirk is unstoppable, uguardable and unlike anything you have ever seen.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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03-30-2007, 11:29 PM
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#37
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Guru
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,057
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This team would never be as successful with Kobe than as with Dirk if Kobe has a similar level of supporting cast that was well balance among all 5 positions. There are many reasons, but the most important and biggest reason is Kobe's piss poor attitude. Kobe is the #1 reason for the blowup of the Lakers championship team. There is no way in hell Kobe could ever buy into Avery's system the way Dirk has nor could he come halfway close to putting the team 1st as Dirk has. With Kobe's humongous ego and disregard of team over self, you wouldn't see Jerry Stackhouse be willing to be 6th man and dedicate himself so fully to the team. The team cohesiveness just wouldn't be there. With enough talent surronding him Kobe can win a championship, but I don't see how we could get a 30 yearold Shaq, and that's probably the level of talent that it would take.
__________________
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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03-30-2007, 11:43 PM
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#38
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cowboys Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LRB
This team would never be as successful with Kobe than as with Dirk if Kobe has a similar level of supporting cast that was well balance among all 5 positions. There are many reasons, but the most important and biggest reason is Kobe's piss poor attitude. Kobe is the #1 reason for the blowup of the Lakers championship team. There is no way in hell Kobe could ever buy into Avery's system the way Dirk has nor could he come halfway close to putting the team 1st as Dirk has. With Kobe's humongous ego and disregard of team over self, you wouldn't see Jerry Stackhouse be willing to be 6th man and dedicate himself so fully to the team. The team cohesiveness just wouldn't be there. With enough talent surronding him Kobe can win a championship, but I don't see how we could get a 30 yearold Shaq, and that's probably the level of talent that it would take.
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Devean George didn't mind playing--and at a nice level, to boot--for Kobe, any more than he does for Dirk here. What makes you think Stackhouse is any less a pro?
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03-30-2007, 11:48 PM
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#39
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Guru
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 17,057
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
Devean George didn't mind playing--and at a nice level, to boot--for Kobe, any more than he does for Dirk here. What makes you think Stackhouse is any less a pro?
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I didn't say that Stackhouse wouldn't have played here. But with Kobe's selfishness and much lesser degree of buyin, I highly doubt that we would have the same level of buyin by players like Stack that we currently do. That's no knock on Stack, but even highly professional people don't perform as well under much poorer leadership. Kobe is a walking, talking, volume shooting soap opera. Those distractions can't be totally discounted just because of professionalism of other players.
__________________
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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03-30-2007, 11:39 PM
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#40
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moderately impressed
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Home of the thirteenth colony
Posts: 17,705
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We only need one thread... so I merged your two almost identical threads...
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