07-11-2004, 09:40 PM
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#1
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,864
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Back To Big Z
I know that some of us love Z and some of us are less enamored...but I think we can all agree that he is an improvement over ANYTHING currently on the roster at the 5 spot...
So, (this is a question for PE, KG, and the like) can we help the Cavs match Utah's ridiculous offer for Boozer by helping them rid themselves of Z's contract? According to the Cleveland papers, they really want to match the offer on Boozer - but they see trading Z as one of their only opportunities to free up the cash...
Would it work?
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07-11-2004, 10:05 PM
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#2
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,589
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RE:Back To Big Z
Reply, I'm not a professional capologist, but this is an easy question. The answer is a qualified yes--in two possible ways.
1. Trades have to match within 15% plus 100,000. So, since Z makes about $14 million, we could do a trade with Cleveland where we sent back 85% of his salary (about $11.9 million) less 100k or about $11.8 million. If his salary were exactly $14 million (it's not) then that woudl increase Cleveland's cap room by $2.2 million. That's not enough to match Utah, but I suppose it's a start. Cleveland might be able to get enough cap room by waiving a player or two.
2. We could involve another team that has cap room (Atlanta looks like the most likely suspect). For example, if Z comes to us, then we could ship Laettner to Cleveland (saving them $7 million in cap room) and Stackhouse to Atlanta (because we have to give up as much salary as we take in [plus or minus 15% and $100k). Atlanta has to give up something to make it a trade, so they give us a second round draft choice.
In sum:
Dallas gives up:
Laettner and Stackhouse
Dallas gets:
Z
Cleveland gives up:
Z
Cleveland gets:
Laettner (and cap room)
Atlanta gives up:
Second round draft choice
Atlanta gets:
Stackhouse
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07-11-2004, 10:05 PM
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#3
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,589
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RE:Back To Big Z
The dreaded double post.
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07-11-2004, 10:50 PM
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#4
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,299
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RE:Back To Big Z
Without Boozer's salary, I've heard Cleveland is already $2M under the cap. They could send a player or two to Houston in exchange for their TE which I believe is $6.9M (from their Glen Rice trade last year).
That may be enough but if not, they could certainly trade Z and recover another $2.2M as explained already by SeriousSummer.
And btw, I'm one of those not too enamored by Z. He may be an upgrade over what we have now but certainly not a long-term solution.
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07-11-2004, 10:58 PM
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#5
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,181
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RE:Back To Big Z
I think Stackhouse is staying. Cuban said that he will be important because he gets in to the paint and makes it to the line
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07-11-2004, 11:41 PM
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#6
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Old School Balla
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 13,097
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RE:Back To Big Z
Serious - Good explanation. The only hitch I see in your example is that you have the Mavs trading both Laettner and Stackhouse together in a package (even though they wind up with different teams). That's prohibited until August 24 -- too late for the Cavs to match.
The Mavs could, however, send Walker to Atlanta and have Atlanta send a player back to Cleveland (such as Jason Terry). That would clear enough space, I think. If they wanted to be sure, they could use an even lower-priced player like Chris Crawford.
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07-11-2004, 11:56 PM
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#7
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,589
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RE:Back To Big Z
kg, I thought you could move players within the sixty day period as part of a three-way deal. Is that wrong?
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07-12-2004, 12:50 AM
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#8
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,146
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RE:Back To Big Z
I know that Cleveand would love to position themselves to match that offer, but I don't think they will be able to get it done. I think Utah even frontloaded it.
I think there is a better chance that Dallas goes after Z and lets Walker try to replace Boozer in Cleveland.
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07-12-2004, 12:53 AM
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#9
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,938
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RE: Back To Big Z
Quote:
I think there is a better chance that Dallas goes after Z and lets Walker try to replace Boozer in Cleveland.
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If Clevland would go for that I would have absolutely no problem with it. I certainly think with the Boozer situation that there's a better chance of it now than there would have been otherwise.
__________________
"He's coming off the bench aggressive right away, looking for his shot. If he has any daylight, we need him to shoot the ball. We know it's going in."
-Dirk Nowitzki on Jason Terry, after JET's 16 point 4th quarter against the Pacers.
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07-12-2004, 01:22 AM
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#10
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,640
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RE:Back To Big Z
Plus I believe the Mavs have a small trade exception - not much but every little bit helps.
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07-12-2004, 08:45 AM
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#11
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,913
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RE: Back To Big Z
Personally, I don't think Ilgauskas is an improvement over one center on our roster who deserves to play, but that's besides the point. Pavel and Mbenga are years away from contributing. I don't want to see another power forward like Fortson, Najera, or Walker playing at the five. I'd prefer not to see Dirk there either. We need another big man to rotate with Bradley. Z brings another look at that spot than Shawn does. He'd definitely be a valuable weapon. I think he could be aquired relatively cheaply. I'd much prefer him over Dampier.
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07-12-2004, 11:47 AM
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#12
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Just outside the Metroplex
Posts: 5,539
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RE:Back To Big Z
With Boozer going from Cleveland. Walker for Big Z makes sense. Dallas probably having to throw in a draft pick (2nd rounder) or cash to make it go through.
Walker takes Boozer spot and runs with LBJ -- that might be pretty good. They turn the center position over to Battie/Diop. If they wanted Delk for Wagner, I'd still do the deal.
Big Z in Dallas would be nice, if the plan is to start Big Z with Bradley and Benga as backups. PPod in Europe or anywhere he could get massive playing time. Good grief he needs time on the court in a game situation.
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"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have". Gerald Ford
"Life's tough, it's even tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
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soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order.
-Capt. Bob "Wolf" Johnson
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07-12-2004, 12:20 PM
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#13
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,913
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RE: Back To Big Z
We might need to take back the bloated contracts of Kevin Ollie and Ira Newble, but that may not be so bad. We could really use a veteran PG. Ollie is a good defensive PG who takes care of the ball well. Ollie is a scrub, but he might find a place here until Harris is ready to take over. Newble is also purported to be a good perimeter defender, something we certainly need to improve upon.
We probably would need to send Cleveland Josh Howard, as they won't want to give up Ilgauskas for just Antoine Walker and cap flexibility. I would be perfectly OK with this. I like Howard, but he'll have a tough time finding minutes behind Finley, Stackhouse, and Daniels. Najera might also be a candidate. He seems to fit the Silas mold.
Big Z isn't perfect, but he's easilty a top ten NBA center. I wouldn't think twice about doing this deal:
Dallas gets: Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Ira Newble, Kevin Ollie - $20,033,000
Cleveland gets: Josh Howard, Antoine Walker, Eduardo Najera - $19,258,163
The lineup:
C: Ilgauskas, Bradley, Mbenga
PF: Nowitski, Laettner, Fortson
SF: Finley
SG: Stackhouse, Newble
PG: Daniels, Harris, Ollie
IR: Podskalzine, Avery Johnson, Tariq Abdul-Wahed
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07-12-2004, 12:30 PM
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#14
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Telling you that your favorites suck
Posts: 2,448
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RE:Back To Big Z
I would not give up Howard to get Big Z. Like Ape said, I think we have a more than capable center in Bradley if Nellie ever played him, and I'm really excited about Mbenga. I think he contributes at least 15 minutes this year. Giving up Howard is a dealbreaker for me. If it's just Walker, I would make the trade.
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07-12-2004, 12:32 PM
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#15
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,938
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RE:Back To Big Z
Quote:
Giving up Howard is a dealbreaker for me. If it's just Walker, I would make the trade.
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Yup.
__________________
"He's coming off the bench aggressive right away, looking for his shot. If he has any daylight, we need him to shoot the ball. We know it's going in."
-Dirk Nowitzki on Jason Terry, after JET's 16 point 4th quarter against the Pacers.
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07-12-2004, 12:41 PM
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#16
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 5,913
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RE:Back To Big Z
A deal breaker? Really? You think much more highly of Howard than I do. This franchise could FINALLY shore up it's center position with a real top ten cetner and you want to pass because of Howard? To me Howard is a nice backup small forward. Despite what you've heard, he's not a terribly good defender. In my opinion, he's just not quick enough to guard most NBA small forwards. He tends to be a litlte out of control on offense. He doesn't have NBA range on his shot. What he does have is quick hands and extremely long arms that help him disrupt passing lanes and get a hell of a lot of rebounds. Those are good skills, but not good enough for me to pass up on Ilgauskas.
Think of it this way, Ilgauskas is what? The fifth or sixth best center in the NBA? I think I'd put him in that range, wouldn't you?
Howard is about, what? The 30th or 40th best small forward in the league? I'd put him in that range, too.
Center is a much tougher position to fill than small forward.
I'd much rather have the league's 6th best center starting for the Mavericks than I would the league's 40th best small forward coming off our bench.
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07-12-2004, 12:52 PM
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#17
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,938
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RE:Back To Big Z
Madape, you didn't propose a swap of Howard for Z. You proposed Howard plus Walker plus filler (eddie) for Z and junk. I'd do Walker and filler for Z and junk, but I'm not interested in losing Walker AND Josh to bring in Z when we're also having to take on junk pieces and not clearing any space on the roster. It's just not worth it to me.
As for your ranking of Josh, I think you're underrating him. Hollinger's PER system has him rated as the 20th best SF last year. He also had a solid +/- (only Dirk's was better among regular Mav contributors). He was the leading vote-getter on the all-rookie second team in one of the best draft classes in recent memory. The kid has value.
__________________
"He's coming off the bench aggressive right away, looking for his shot. If he has any daylight, we need him to shoot the ball. We know it's going in."
-Dirk Nowitzki on Jason Terry, after JET's 16 point 4th quarter against the Pacers.
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