Plausible Trade? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Dirkenstien · 10-24-2003, 02:17 PM

In order to be successfull in the game of basketball you must be aware that things may not unfold as previously planned. The Antoine Walker trade in my opinion was a beautiful steal for the mavericks. We acquired a three time NBA All Star who can handle the rock and drain the three, however, in the back of most mavs fans minds lies a question mark regarding whether or not this trade can really work to help us earn a championship. We must be patient and see just what kind of music this group can make, while at the same time also consider possible options or alternatives we may be forced to resort to in the future. While pondering this thought I decided to see just what the mavericks could do with their all star studded squad in case things (for a lack of a better term) simply dont pan out. Here is one trade I have checked out ...please feel free to throw in your opinion on whether or not you agree to this trade, whether or not you believe it would be good for dallas, whether you feel Detroit would even consider it, and/or any other trade possibilities .....etc etc

Dallas receives: SG Hubert Davis (1.8 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.7 apg in 7.6 minutes)
PF Ben Wallace (6.9 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 1.6 apg in 39.3 minutes)
SG Bob Sura (7.3 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 3.2 apg in 20.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -10.8 ppg, +7.3 rpg, and -0.3 apg.

Detroit receives: SF Eduardo Najera (6.7 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.0 apg in 48 games)
PF Antoine Walker (20.1 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 4.8 apg in 78 games)
Change in team outlook: +10.8 ppg, -7.3 rpg, and +0.3 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

philb7777 · 10-24-2003, 02:19 PM

I think Detroit would have to be smoking crack to accept that trade. I would love it for the Mavs though!!!!

Dirkenstien · 10-24-2003, 02:33 PM

hmm ....true, perhaps if we threw in a conditional future first round pick it may sound a bit more enticing.

grndmstr_c · 10-24-2003, 02:30 PM

I didn't see the games, so I don't know how things actually went down (who Ben was playing, if Ben was playing), but TD and Shaq pretty much chewed up Detroit last year. Barring an explanation I vote no on that trade.

LRB · 10-24-2003, 02:42 PM

how about this trade :

Dallas trades: Shawn Bradley 7' 6" 275 lbs
Eduardo Najera 6' 8" 235 lbs

Dallas recieves: The Big Show 7' 2" 500 lbs
The Undertaker 6'10" 328 lbs
___________________________________________
Change in team outlook: - 2" +218 lbs

WWE trades: The Big Show 7' 2" 500 lbs
The Undertaker 6'10" 328 lbs

WWE recieves: Shawn Bradley 7' 6" 275 lbs
Eduardo Najera 6' 8" 235 lbs
___________________________________________
Change in team outlook: +2" -218 lbs

Trade Excepted

OutletPass · 10-24-2003, 02:49 PM

As much as I love Ben Wallace and would love him here, your trade has a greater probability, LRB.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Dirkenstien · 10-24-2003, 02:49 PM

I would just might have to pull the trigger on that one [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Hitman · 10-25-2003, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB
how about this trade :

Dallas trades: Shawn Bradley 7' 6" 275 lbs
Eduardo Najera 6' 8" 235 lbs

Dallas recieves: The Big Show 7' 2" 500 lbs
The Undertaker 6'10" 328 lbs
___________________________________________
Change in team outlook: - 2" +218 lbs

WWE trades: The Big Show 7' 2" 500 lbs
The Undertaker 6'10" 328 lbs

WWE recieves: Shawn Bradley 7' 6" 275 lbs
Eduardo Najera 6' 8" 235 lbs
___________________________________________
Change in team outlook: +2" -218 lbs

Trade Excepted

I'm not sure how the WWE needs Najera when they have Eddie Guererro to fill the same role.

Bradley could work in WWE as a younger Undertaker, though he might have to don a mask and some full body armor to cover his pale, non steroided skin.

Big Show would be a monster on Dallas. I wonder if he can shoot.

SaltwaterChaffy · 10-24-2003, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
I didn't see the games, so I don't know how things actually went down (who Ben was playing, if Ben was playing), but TD and Shaq pretty much chewed up Detroit last year. Barring an explanation I vote no on that trade.

yes, but TD and Shaq chewed up everybody last year, and will continue to do so. Ben would be a huge asset for us, because he is a rebound/block machine. He is not a great post defender, but is great on helpside D. (sounds like raef, i know, but much, much better, and more intimidating in the post.) He would be better than anything the Mavericks have had in the past decade when it comes to a down and dirty player who does the things we need.

That said, this trade would never happen, unless Wallace gets on Brown's bad side for some reason. He's too much of an asset at this point. Maybe if Darko develops quicker than expected, and Brown gets an itchy trigger finger, this could happen, but I doubt it.

Murphy3 · 10-24-2003, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: SaltwaterChaffy

Quote:

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c
I didn't see the games, so I don't know how things actually went down (who Ben was playing, if Ben was playing), but TD and Shaq pretty much chewed up Detroit last year. Barring an explanation I vote no on that trade.

yes, but TD and Shaq chewed up everybody last year, and will continue to do so. Ben would be a huge asset for us, because he is a rebound/block machine. He is not a great post defender, but is great on helpside D. (sounds like raef, i know, but much, much better, and more intimidating in the post.) He would be better than anything the Mavericks have had in the past decade when it comes to a down and dirty player who does the things we need.

That said, this trade would never happen, unless Wallace gets on Brown's bad side for some reason. He's too much of an asset at this point. Maybe if Darko develops quicker than expected, and Brown gets an itchy trigger finger, this could happen, but I doubt it.

If detroit would be dumb enough to do so..then yes, you make the trade in a heartbeat

Dirkenstien · 10-24-2003, 03:01 PM

Originally quoted by Murphy3: "If detroit would be dumb enough to do so..then yes, you make the trade in a heartbeat "

- Agreed
<u>Text</u>

Dirkenstien · 10-24-2003, 03:22 PM

Any ideas on what we could do to make this offer sound more attractive?

Objective J · 10-24-2003, 03:55 PM

I think Ben Wallace would be a lot like Raef when he moved over the West. Ben Wallace would make a marvelous small forward in the West. Raef will surprise a lot of people in the East. This is probably the best move he could have wished for. Raef was put in a position to fail with the Mavs. He doesn't have the size or strength for center in the West. If we had had any meaningful minutes for him at the PF position he would have been an excellent post defender at that position. Ben at center in the West would be incredibly undersized and also be completely decimated after a grueling 82 game season.

jmiles65 · 10-24-2003, 03:54 PM

Can we get Kane instead?

Objective J · 10-24-2003, 04:29 PM

Key Stats:
Height: 6-9
Weight: 240

Wallace would never survive in the West. Again I am assuming that you guys are thinking of him as an answer at center. His assignments in the West:
Shaq 7ft+
Vlad 7ft+
Yao 7ft+
Duncan 7ft+
Garnett 7ft+h

LRB · 10-24-2003, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Objective J
Key Stats:
Height: 6-9
Weight: 240

Wallace would never survive in the West. Again I am assuming that you guys are thinking of him as an answer at center. His assignments in the West:
Shaq 7ft+
Vlad 7ft+
Yao 7ft+
Duncan 7ft+
Garnett 7ft+h

Not to mention that 6'9" is being very generous with his height and Shaq outweighs him by 100+ lbs. We loose tons of offense and gain someone physically ill equiped to play defense at the position that we need defense. This team would not be a contender with only Best to run the point and only Delk to back him up. We might still be able to compete with the TWolves for the 4th slot, but we would be exceptionally luck to do that. The Kings, Lakers, and Spurs would eat our lunch like school yard bullies. If we played either of them in the playoffs we would be lucky to win a single game. This would be a huge step backwards. Ben Wallace is the single most overrated player on this board.

Dirkenstien · 10-24-2003, 04:52 PM

BEN WALLACE

-Named to the All-NBA Second team in 2002-03

-Named the 2002-03 NBA Defensive Player of the Year

-Won NBA Player of the Week honors (3/17-3/23) in 2002-03

-Named the 2001-02 NBA Defensive Player of the Year

-Named to the NBA All-Defensive team in 2001-02

-Named by USA Basketball as a member of the USA team that will compete at the World Basketball Championships in Indiana during the 2002 summer

-One of four players in NBA history to lead the league in rebounds and blocks during the same season (01-02) - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1975-76, Bill Walton 1976-77 and Hakeem Olajuwon 1989-90

-Won NBA Player of the Week honors twice (2/24 and 3/31) in 2001-02

-Led NBA in rebounds and blocks in 2001-02

-Set a franchise record for blocks (278) in a season (2001-02) - Bob Lanier had 247 in 1973-74

-Led the 1999-2000 Magic in rebounding (8.2, 20th in the NBA)

-Corralled a career-high 28 rebounds twice against the Boston Celtics on 3/24/02 and the Toronto Raptors on 4/17/01

-Posted a career-high 20 points, shooting 9-of-9 from the field, and 10 rebounds in a 97-86 win over the Cleveland Cavaliers on 4/29/99

-Scored a career-high 10 points against the Orlando Magic on 2/5/98 and matched it against the Vancouver Grizzlies on 2/14/98

-Grabbed a game-high 12 rebounds, in his first career NBA start, against the Indiana Pacers on 1/27/98

-Made his NBA debut, grabbing 10 rebounds in 19 minutes, against the Orlando Magic on 11/1/96

-Named First Team Division II All-America after averaging 12.5 ppg and 10.5 rpg as a senior at Virginia Union

...you tell me if he would start for the mavericks. Wallace overrated?

Objective J · 10-24-2003, 05:05 PM

Those stats are great, but you actually proved my point with your stats. All but one of those teams you mentioned were in the East. Vancouver....well I don't really have to respond to that one. If the Mavs were in the East, I would kiss Ben Wallace's rear and sign him for whatever he wanted. But, the big men in the West are way bigger than those in the East. A PF in the West would be a center in the East. If you can show me dominant stats against the big men in the West last year (and Raef doesn't count as a viable example), I would agree with you. I don't think you are going to find them.

LRB · 10-24-2003, 05:57 PM

Quote:

http://dallas-mavs.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=3&threadid=12948

That was the team that choked and finished 6th and played horribly except for the one bright spot of Michael Fineley? If I was Big Ben I'd take that one off my resume.

Quote:

-Led NBA in rebounds and blocks in 2001-02

Still has yet to do it as more times than Shawn Bradley.

Ben Wallace racked up big numbers playing in the CBA-like and center and PF challenged east.

He's not worth 2 allstars.

He is an offensive liability. Only averaged 6.9 pts last year.

He shoots FT's worse than Shaq. 45%. couldn't afford to leave him in during the 4th quarter of close games.

Is too small to meet our needs at center, and we're already overloaded at PF.

He would not start a lot of games for the Mavs because of his offensive liabilites.

He would end a lot of games because of his offensive liabilities especially his FT shooting.

He is without a doubt overrated on this board. Any awards that he may have won have nothing to do with overrating him. One grossly undersized defensive player will not turn this team into a defensive powerhouse.

The proposed trade would drag the Mavs out of title contention into also rans. Our great strength is offense. Trading for Ben Wallace would deminish that more than it would help us on defense. Not much harder to get 5 guys to play D than it is to get 4 guys to play D. Ben never was and never will be able to adequately defending the basket 1 on 5. He plays one end of the court and only one end. And he can't guard Shaq, he can't guard Duncan, and I doubt that he can guard Divac. So why in the hell would we give up our chance to defeat the 3 best teams in the league besides us to get this offensive spare.

madape · 10-24-2003, 04:41 PM

Would Wallace even start for this team?

Lvubun1 · 10-24-2003, 05:00 PM

You gotta use common sense when it comes to these things. Who was Walker traded for? The Celtics were only about to fetch Raef for Walker, and they had to add in a solid guard, now you expect Cuban to turn that into Ben Wallace? Unless Cuban had a gun to Danny's face and/or he has a real hard-on for Raef, that along with Kt and Ward was probably the best offer he recieved. If it was possible to get Ben Wallace for Walker, don't you think every other team in the league might possibly had made a better offer to the Celtics then Raef a highly overpaid soft center, just to turn Walker into Wallace?

Dirkenstien · 10-24-2003, 05:09 PM

Consider what Cuban has done with just Juwan Howard and you learn to not underestimate what is and what is not possible. Also, Antoine and Nash for Wallace and scrubs is almost too risky, making it seemingly more probable than impossible.

Objective J · 10-24-2003, 05:15 PM

I agree with you on that note, Dirkenstien, Cuban does pull off some trades that are seemingly implausible. It's amazing what can happen when an owner doesn't fear luxury tax. Maybe he can turn Antoine into a serviceable big man before the trade deadline. I don't know who that would be though. There just aren't many of them (7ft+) around.

Objective J · 10-24-2003, 05:27 PM

Actually, I am incorrect. I do have some possible answers at center for the Mavs. You have to look no further than Golden State. When I originally heard that they made a trade with Golden State, I was elated. I thought for sure they had landed Adonal Foyle or Erick Dampier. Instead it was Jamison. I would love to hear what you guys think of Foyle and Dampier as possible answers. I know nothing about salary cap and contract stuff, so this may not be possible for those reasons. I would totally trade Josh Powell for those guys.

AdamAMMP · 10-24-2003, 07:54 PM

Big Bens number against the top 3 last yr

SAC
9.0pts 17.5Rbs 4.0bks 2.0st

Lakers
10.0pts 14.5Rbs 2.0bks 1.0st

Spurs
4.0pts 7.5Rbs 2.0blks 2.0st

He got owned by the Spurs

FilthyFinMavs · 10-24-2003, 08:14 PM

Excuse me if I offend anyone this site with this statement and I say it everywhere but why does it feel like i'm on Mavtalk? What is this board coming to? Let's all get back to reality and everything will be okay.

EricaLubarsky · 10-24-2003, 08:50 PM

Ben Wallace was never offered to Boston, why would they offer him to us?

This makes no sense.

Lvubun1 · 10-24-2003, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Ben Wallace was never offered to Boston, why would they offer him to us?

This makes no sense.

Exactly. And yes Cuban has pulled off some good ones but he has traded for good players with low trade value, Howard, NVE, Jamison and Walker. Each one has one of three things against him

#1. Attitude
#2. Contract
#3. Team just didn't want him anymore.

Howard: #2
NVE: #1
Jamison: # 2 and #3
Walker: #1, #2, and #3

Its not like Cube was able to trade Raef for Iverson or a young player with lesser talent or even a player with lesser talent with no baggage, attitude or contract wise. If Walker was a desirable player somebody would have offered the C's better then Raef, considering how much he sucks and how much he makes it would not have been hard. The only way the Mavs will recieve decent talent for Walker is if it goes full circle and he is traded for another player who has one of the above issues. Nick came in as a throwaway undesirable and left as a desirable which was able to fetch another undesirable but a better fit. If Walker and Jamison can do what Nick did the Mavs might have decent trade bait in the future.

AdamAMMP · 10-24-2003, 10:53 PM

Would rather do this. Suns prob wouldn't consider it though.

Dallas trades:

PF Antoine Walker (20.1 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 4.8 apg in 41.5 minutes)
SG Michael Finley (19.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 3.0 apg in 38.3 minutes)
SF Eduardo Najera (6.7 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.0 apg in 23.0 minutes)

Dallas receives:

SG Anfernee Hardaway (10.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.0 apg in 30.7 minutes)
PF Tom Gugliotta (4.8 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 1.1 apg in 16.6 minutes)
PF Amare Stoudemire (13.5 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 1.0 apg in 31.3 minutes)
SG Joe Johnson (9.8 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 2.6 apg in 27.5 minutes)

Change in team outlook: -7.4 ppg, +2.5 rpg, and -0.1 apg.

Phoenix trades:

SG Anfernee Hardaway (10.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.0 apg in 30.7 minutes)
PF Tom Gugliotta (4.8 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 1.1 apg in 16.6 minutes)
PF Amare Stoudemire (13.5 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 1.0 apg in 31.3 minutes)
SG Joe Johnson (9.8 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 2.6 apg in 27.5 minutes)

Phoenix receives:

PF Antoine Walker (20.1 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 4.8 apg in 78 games)
SG Michael Finley (19.3 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 3.0 apg in 69 games)
SF Eduardo Najera (6.7 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 1.0 apg in 48 games)

Change in team outlook: +7.4 ppg, -2.5 rpg, and +0.1 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

grndmstr_c · 10-24-2003, 11:06 PM

Talk all you want about the Warriors not wanting Jamison, but the onlly baggage he brought with him is his contract. He's shown himself to be nothing but a talented, stand up guy since he got here as far as I'm aware. As for Walker, he doesn't come with a rep near as bad as Nick did. As long as he doesn't turn into an a$$ he'll be valuable trade bait next year because of his contract; rehabbing not necessary.

MavsFanFinley · 10-24-2003, 11:51 PM

I saw this on the LMF board. I didn't see it posted anywhere here but thought it might be interesting for some here that are in love with trade talk.

I don't know how reliable that Hoopsworld is, but I found this from their website:

Dallas - The trade winds may still be blowing in Dallas, as the team continues to look to possibly add a big man such as Antonio Davis of the Raptors to the mix. But if this unorthodox lineup is still in place next week, it's just the type of team Don Nelson loves.

Has anybody heard anything about this? Thanks.

AdamAMMP · 10-24-2003, 11:58 PM

F'k Antonio Davis

bogey · 10-25-2003, 12:20 AM

Some of these trade offers are just sad.

MavsFanFinley · 10-25-2003, 12:55 AM

The Mavs have been involved with quite a few of the Davis rumors. Not sure whether the Mavs really have that much interest or if it's becoming like NY reports.

I had to check out realgm and see what works just out of curiosity. I only fooled with this for a minute as it gave me a headache.

Finley/Najera works or Davis/Williams

or

Bradley/Najera/TAW works for Davis

The only reason I see the Mavs using the first scenerio is to rid of Finley's contract. Delk could be the starting sg with Williams playing both the 1 and 2. Still allows Howard to get plenty of minutes. Najera will be seldom used and Davis would help at the center position.

I don't see any reason the Mavs go for the 2nd scenerio. Not even to dump TAW's contract. Davis is not an upgrade over Bradley, plus we'd lose Najera who can spot at the center position.

Surely the Mavs are not thinking about a 3-team trade right now.

bogey · 10-25-2003, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Surely the Mavs are not thinking about a 3-team trade right now.

No way no how....and don't call me shirley. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

grndmstr_c · 10-25-2003, 05:00 AM

Fortson and TAW for Davis would also work, and that would be the only trade I'd be willing to do to get him (at least in a two way), but no way Toronto would do it because the contracts they'd be getting would last a couple years longer than Davis' contract.

inter1488 · 06-27-2004, 02:22 PM

not an option

Dirkenstien · 10-25-2003, 10:36 AM

I agree...Forstons and TAW are about all i would even consider giving up for Davis

Objective J · 10-25-2003, 11:15 AM

What about this trade:

Dallas trades:
SG Tariq Abdul-Wahad (4.1 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.5 apg in 14.6 minutes)

Dallas receives:
PF Troy Murphy (11.7 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 1.3 apg in 31.8 minutes)
C Adonal Foyle (5.4 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 21.8 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +13.0 ppg, +13.3 rpg, and +0.3 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Adonal Foyle alongside Danny Fortson could solve every problem the Mavs had at the 5 spot. This would effectively turn the Mavs into a defensive and rebounding powerhouse. I know the talent levels of the players in the trade aren't equitable, but the salaries work.

LRB · 10-25-2003, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Objective J
What about this trade:

Dallas trades:
SG Tariq Abdul-Wahad (4.1 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 1.5 apg in 14.6 minutes)

Dallas receives:
PF Troy Murphy (11.7 ppg, 10.2 rpg, 1.3 apg in 31.8 minutes)
C Adonal Foyle (5.4 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 21.8 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +13.0 ppg, +13.3 rpg, and +0.3 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Adonal Foyle alongside Danny Fortson could solve every problem the Mavs had at the 5 spot. This would effectively turn the Mavs into a defensive and rebounding powerhouse. I know the talent levels of the players in the trade aren't equitable, but the salaries work.

But why on earth would GS even consider this trade? TAW fills none of their needs. They lose a great PF and a decent backup center for a spare with an incredibly bad contract that wont' be up for several years.