To Melo or not to Melo - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

yahyes · 05-10-2014, 03:04 AM

I'll go out on a reach here. Giving Carmelo Anthony an offer doesn't seem like a bad idea. Let's see what the strong suit is now for the Mavs. Basically much more effective offense. Which meshed well in some balances of defense when Dalembert was at his A game. Thinking about IF melo teamed up with Dirk and Monta sounds even higher in offense.

I say we talk to Carmelo. See what he's looking for. Because thinking about how much slack it takes away from Dirk to be more effective latter down the season, it's an idea to think about. And here's where guys like Carter, Marion, Devin, and Blair would comeback. Try another big run at it. While having a couple spots to draft us a hopeful center. Because I wouldn't mind the idea on trying to move up in the draft by trading all our picks and Wright. Mainly to draft the best center possible.

And who knows. We just might also can get Tyson to reunite with Dirk.

Kante · 05-10-2014, 05:34 AM

No, thanks.

dirt_dobber · 05-10-2014, 06:28 AM

say no to melo.
chucker.
ball stopper.
iso-ball.
chemistry-killing disaster.

escobar317 · 05-12-2014, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirt_dobber

say no to melo.
chucker.
ball stopper.
iso-ball.
chemistry-killing disaster.

Same thing you all said about Monta Ellis lol

Melonhead · 05-13-2014, 01:12 AM

Hope everyone tuned into the nets heat tonight. Joe Johnson iso on LeBron twice with less than 2 min. Bricked both shots hard and it cost them the game...that's carmelo game right there. Iso pull up jumpshot brick

Five-ofan · 05-13-2014, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Hope everyone tuned into the nets heat tonight. Joe Johnson iso on LeBron twice with less than 2 min. Bricked both shots hard and it cost them the game...that's carmelo game right there. Iso pull up jumpshot brick

Iv long been a joe Johnson fan, but melo is a much better player

Thespiralgoeson · 05-13-2014, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Iv long been a joe Johnson fan, but melo is a much better player

That's an understatement.

erdubya · 06-16-2014, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirt_dobber

say no to melo.
chucker.
ball stopper.
iso-ball.
chemistry-killing disaster.

They said the same thing about Monta, and Vince too... This system and chemistry is too strong for one player to mess it all up. I think he'd buy into the Carlisle system and get in where he fits in!

Underdog · 06-16-2014, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erdubya

They said the same thing about Monta, and Vince too... This system and chemistry is too strong for one player to mess it all up. I think he'd buy into the Carlisle system and get in where he fits in!

The difference is that Monta was an $8m risk, whereas Melo is a $20m risk... Also, a max-money/franchise player shouldn't ever need to be "coached-up" in order to justify their paycheck.

LSMF · 05-10-2014, 06:51 AM

Melo is a big time player, but I can't help but think it's a waste of time chasing after him. Why not focus on getting two way players that contribute to this team? Honestly, it'd be nice to have Melo but it seems like another pipe dream to me.

PS- I hate watching Carmelo Anthony catch the ball, Jab-Step about 6,7 times and then launch a brick. What a way to disrupt your team's offense.

dude1394 · 05-10-2014, 10:35 AM

Carmelo Anthony much like Dwight IMO seems to have some real chemistry issues. Players of that caliber who move so much really seems like a huge red flag. Maybe he will mellow out some but I don't know, I just don't see many praising this dude.

Underdog · 05-10-2014, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Carmelo Anthony much like Dwight IMO seems to have some real chemistry issues. Players of that caliber who move so much really seems like a huge red flag. Maybe he will mellow out some but I don't know, I just don't see many praising this dude.

Melonhead · 05-10-2014, 10:57 AM

Fools gold as a player. Over time he wears on your franchise.

Even dumber to do another "chase" after a star player. Get better at C and F

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-10-2014, 11:48 AM

If the Knicks trade us Chandler as well, then I'm in. Ellis/Melo/Dirk/Chandler...I cud rol wit dat.

yahyes · 05-10-2014, 02:14 PM

Look I know we all have an opinion about him. Even I have one. But don't you trust in Carlisle to handle his personality? Look what he's done for Ellis so far. Even in the past of keeping guys like Stevenson and Terry calm to play their game. Carlisles's underrated trait I think is handling egos in the locker room.

some1nw · 05-10-2014, 02:31 PM

Addition of Melo would not help this team at all. We need a perimeter defender and a defensive minded center. In Monta I trust. I think he will make a big leap forward next season.

grndmstr_c · 05-10-2014, 03:58 PM

No great desire to root for Melo, and I seriously doubt he leaves NY, but he's a rare enough talent that it'd be a mistake to pass on an opportunity to make a pitch to him, and if he did opt to sign with Dallas I'm pretty sure the opportunity to play for Rick would be a major reason why, in which case I'd be willing to take my chances that it could work out.

Sportstudi · 05-10-2014, 04:37 PM

No thanks. We have enough offense, we need defense and Melo doesn't play any defense. Additionally, he's a ballhog.

Five-ofan · 05-10-2014, 05:22 PM

I think melo would be good here but for the love of god will everyone quit acting like carlisle changed Ellis? Ellis was the same player he's always been, with the exception of last year he just happened to be on a better team and in a better situation so he is just now being properly appreciated.

yahyes · 05-10-2014, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I think melo would be good here but for the love of god will everyone quit acting like carlisle changed Ellis? Ellis was the same player he's always been, with the exception of last year he just happened to be on a better team and in a better situation so he is just now being properly appreciated.

Well if you look at it. Ellis had a great season in assists compared through his whole career. I do give credit to Carlisle for help adjusting his game more. He's played a lot more differently by working through ball movement more and his defense was actually underrated.

dude1394 · 05-10-2014, 11:13 PM

I don't like melo, but I'd have to take him and hope.

yahyes · 05-10-2014, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I don't like melo, but I'd have to take him and hope.

We didn't like Monta either. Just saying.

grndmstr_c · 05-10-2014, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yahyes

We didn't like Monta either. Just saying.

Some of us did.

Jack.Kerr · 06-19-2014, 11:50 AM

Just realized who Anthony reminds me of physically: a 6'6" version of Erick Dampier.

Same stiff hips, stiff knees, poor-to-non-existent lateral movement which makes him such a poor defender; can go up and clear the rim (but just) and then comes down like a cinderblock.

Carmelo does have infinitely better hands than Dampier, and of course better ball skills. And the movement deficiencies don't keep him from making his moves offensively (yet), since it's easier to attack than it is to react (which is what the Mavericks needed from Dampier). But he's 30, coming off two consecutive seasons where he has suffered separate shoulder injuries (for which he declined surgery, as far as anyone knows). Aging really isn't going to affect his defense, because he doesn't defend currently. The fall-off will come when he can't beat ANYONE off the dribble, and his offense becomes dependent on the 22-footer.

It's odd to read the assessments of how people think he'd fit with the Mavericks, as if you can just ADD his production on to Ellis' and Dirk's, without either of their games suffering from Anthony holding the ball for 12-15 seconds per possession, then hoisting a jumper. When he's on, he's good, but you see far too many 27-points-on-23-shot nights from him, and everybody else just standing around. (Tap the brakes on Dirk's ascent up the All-Time scoring list too.)

And defensively? Dirk, Ellis, Anthony...Calderón. <Shudder>

Don't think he's headed to Dallas at any rate, but it's definitely odd (just 3 years away from a championship season which was won with defense and ball movement; odder still having just seen the Spurs dismantle the Heat with even better ball movement and tough defense) to see how readily people would settle for the level of play that would result from a Carmelo-dominated team.

It's like needing broccoli and choosing a Quarter Pounder.

EricaLubarsky · 06-19-2014, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

Just realized who Anthony reminds me of physically: a 6'6" version of Erick Dampier.

Same stiff hips, stiff knees, poor-to-non-existent lateral movement which makes him such a poor defender; can go up and clear the rim (but just) and then comes down like a cinderblock.

Carmelo does have infinitely better hands than Dampier, and of course better ball skills. And the movement deficiencies don't keep him from making his moves offensively (yet), since it's easier to attack than it is to react (which is what the Mavericks needed from Dampier). But he's 30, coming off two consecutive seasons where he has suffered separate shoulder injuries (for which he declined surgery, as far as anyone knows). Aging really isn't going to affect his defense, because he doesn't defend currently. The fall-off will come when he can't beat ANYONE off the dribble, and his offense becomes dependent on the 22-footer.

Lol, wut?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5LMozhAeUg

The comparison to Dampier is just awful.

Also, the argument that he plays no defense is hyperbole and not based on the facts.

I'd put the chances at landing Melo between 2-4% (very low), but making hyperbolic attacks on someone who is a legitimate superstar just sounds petty and makes me wonder if your agenda has clouded your ability to assess talent.

hayth.james.g · 06-19-2014, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Lol, wut?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5LMozhAeUg

The comparison to Dampier is just awful and you should feel bad.

Also, the argument that he plays no defense is hyperbole and not based on the facts.

I'd put the chances at landing Melo between 2-4% (very low), but making hyperbolic attacks on someone who is a legitimate superstar just sounds petty and makes me wonder if your agenda has clouded your ability to assess talent.

I agree.. the comparison to Dampier was just awful. That said.... your 2-4% (very low) remark is pretty bad too. There is absolutely zero evidence to support your ability to assign a percentage to our ability to sign Melo. But I guess it's not all that bad.... we have other long time posters here calling people "morons" for believing Rose will be back to "Pre Rose" form in a year when in fact nobody actually said that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Anyone who thinks Rose is just going to automatically be pre injury rose(who was overrated to begin with) is a moron. Now Carmelo may very well fit into that category, but there is no reason for anyone to think a player who relied solely on elite athleticism, will return at 100% after missing 2.5 seasons

Just because someone says, "latest news is that Rose is back to 100%" doesn't mean he is going to be 100% on the court. I think most of us understand they are talking about his knee medically, not necessarily his conditioning and game.

Last time I checked Melo will be signing a 4 year contract if he leaves the Knicks, and for some of us we actually look beyond the first year of a contract when making our assumptions on where the best place for him to sign would be. For me... yes Rose will need a year to fully compete. I still think a 75-80% Rose is enough for the Bulls to compete in the East right away. Sorry I guess I am just a "Moron" for believing the Bulls are Carmelo's best realistic chance at a championship.

How about we leave out the name calling and put away our "keyboard swords". After all we are all just playing "keyboard GM" anyways and it's OK if we share a difference of opinion. I personally prefer to see others perspective as it allows me to better examine mine, and at times change my stance on a particular subject.

Five-ofan · 05-10-2014, 11:48 PM

Gmc, you along with Thig and kg are among the people who's basketball opinions I value the highest on this board and I get the feeling that all of you are against the idea of getting melo(although you all agree he's too good not to take) and I don't understand why. I admit that at first glance I was lukewarm about the idea too, but IMO a deeper inspection makes melo look really good. Melo is obviously an offensive monster. He can ISO from anywhere, he's a beast on the block, he's a great catch and shoot guy, he can be either the screener or the ball handler in the pick and roll and most importantly for fit reasons he's an elite rebounding 3.

Obviously other than rebounding, those are all offensive strengths, but that has a round about way I think that can help the d. IMO the biggest reason our defense was awful was bad perimeter d. That starts and ends with the Calderon/Ellis combo. The problem with breaking that duo up, is that it's incredibly difficult to have a good offense with 3 non threats on the floor in the center, the 3 and the presumed Calderon defensive replacement. Starting melo allows us to start a better defensive option at the point(either Harris or if I get my wish, Livingston) without sacrificing offense. Also as I mentioned I think melo has the ability to be at least a slightly above average defender(he could at least equal this years Shawn) that allows us to keep or even improve our elite offense while upgrading the d. I still want the upgrade at center, and I understand that the odds of getting melo are slim, but with Phil all but saying they won't pay him more I think it's at least enough of a possibility to warrant Internet speculation.

grndmstr_c · 05-11-2014, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Gmc, you along with Thig and kg are among the people who's basketball opinions I value the highest on this board and I get the feeling that all of you are against the idea of getting melo(although you all agree he's too good not to take) and I don't understand why.

To clarify, the only part of me that would be opposed to signing him if he wanted to come here is the part of me that's most grateful for having been able to root for a guy like Dirk for the last decade and a half. I agree with you that Melo's a beast of a player. His stopper tendencies concern me (much more than his defense), but he's also one of only a handful of guys around the league who can dominate a one-on-one matchup against just about any defender you could think to throw at him when he's on his game, and that's incredibly valuable (cf., Dirk in the Mavs' championship run). And like I alluded to above, if he did come to Dallas, it'd be his choice as an unrestricted free agent, and that fact alone would set my mind greatly at ease when it comes to the question of whether he could be expected to buy in to Rick's coaching.

yahyes · 05-11-2014, 12:37 AM

We have to admit Dirk needs more help offensively. In fact I know Dirk is up for passing the ball to Monta now. Or even Melo(if he signed here) more he'd down for it. Not only could it take slack from our main franchise player. But it could open up a new plan for the Mavs latter down the road. Either we think try to win now while having Dirk in his last stretch of 3-4 years. Or go with Deng, which isn't as efficient offensively. But that's where Marion comes to play in bringing back.

jthig32 · 05-11-2014, 07:52 AM

I feel like I've been pretty outspoken in wanting Melo if he will come here.

I don't love him at a super-max contract, but with Dirk taking so much less you could make it work. Plus if you're signing Melo I think you're now trading a very valuable piece in Monta for pieces that fit better.

But I don't see it happening. Maybe someday a big time fee agent will recognize the value that Carlisle could bring them, but it's hard to see Melo being that guy.

Five-ofan · 05-11-2014, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I feel like I've been pretty outspoken in wanting Melo if he will come here.

I don't love him at a super-max contract, but with Dirk taking so much less you could make it work. Plus if you're signing Melo I think you're now trading a very valuable piece in Monta for pieces that fit better.

But I don't see it happening. Maybe someday a big time fee agent will recognize the value that Carlisle could bring them, but it's hard to see Melo being that guy.

Sign melo, trade Ellis and wright for chandler and a first, start Calderon, Ellington, melo, dirk, chandler. Hopefully resign Vince. Have a bench of Harris, Vince, daly, Larkin and call it a day?

I have no idea of Phil would do that trade, and it's probably an overpay for Tyson but I love that starting lineup(or you could switch devin for Calderon)

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-11-2014, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Sign melo, trade Ellis and wright for chandler and a first, start Calderon, Ellington, melo, dirk, chandler. Hopefully resign Vince. Have a bench of Harris, Vince, daly, Larkin and call it a day?

I have no idea of Phil would do that trade, and it's probably an overpay for Tyson but I love that starting lineup(or you could switch devin for Calderon)

Not sure I can say this without sounding biased, but I think you start Harris in that scenario. Ellington is a good enough three point shooter to enable it. You'd have three quality shooters in Ellington/Melo/Dirk and three quality defenders in Harris/Ellington/Chandler. Nice balance.

Scott McGuire · 05-11-2014, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Not sure I can say this without sounding biased, but I think you start Harris in that scenario. Ellington is a good enough three point shooter to enable it. You'd have three quality shooters in Ellington/Melo/Dirk and three quality defenders in Harris/Ellington/Chandler. Nice balance.

Soooo... You are saying that in this scenario DevinHarriswouldstart?

DevinHarriswillstart · 05-11-2014, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott McGuire

Soooo... You are saying that in this scenario DevinHarriswouldstart?

Noooo....I'm saying DevinHarriscouldstart thank you very much.

EricaLubarsky · 05-11-2014, 10:00 AM

I'dike him here just so that all the negative nellies that say that the Mavs never get any good free agents would have to eat crow.

Underdog · 05-11-2014, 10:25 AM

The question you need to ask yourself is this: does simply adding Melo to last year's team make us a contender? Because he'll eat most, if not all, of our cap space (depending on what Dirk takes).

Jack.Kerr · 05-11-2014, 10:50 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NhEFq3USMU

Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it.

kg_veteran · 05-13-2014, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NhEFq3USMU

Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it.

This is pretty much where I come down on the subject of pursuing Carmelo Anthony.

dirt_dobber · 05-11-2014, 12:28 PM

really liking this thread - lots of good point/counter-point.

-however- I am still of the "say no to mello" campaign. (see post #3)

dirt_dobber · 05-11-2014, 01:42 PM

***********************************************
****6 Reasons Why Carmelo Anthony May Be Overrated***

by: KATHERINE LAGRAVE
http://wallstcheatsheet.com/sports/6...tml/?a=viewall

New York Knicks star Carmelo Anthony plans to opt out of the last year of his contract and “test the waters” of free agency this summer, with teams like Chicago, Houston, and the Los Angeles Clippers all expected to show interest. While Anthony has said that his top priority is to re-sign with the Knicks, it’s tricky: He’s looking for assurances from Knicks President Phil Jackson that the team is committed to rebuilding, but Jackson also knows it means a significant pay cut for Anthony.

Undoubtedly, Anthony has been a force in the league. He has scored nearly 20,000 points in his career and appeared in the All-Star game seven times. He is the fifth-highest paid player in the league and was the regular season’s second-leading scorer, after Kevin Durant. Some say he’s one of the best players in the league, third only to LeBron James and Durant. But what about numbers?

In a recent Atlantic piece, David Berri makes the case that the National Basketball Association forward isn’t as valuable to the Knicks as their fans – or their front office – think. We break down six reasons this may be true.

1. Effective field goal percentage and true shooting percentage.
In the 2013-2014 regular season, Berri writes that an “average NBA player had an effective field goal percentage (a measure that considers the impact of shooting from two-point and three-point range) of 0.501 and a true shooting percentage (a measure that considers the impact of shooting from the free throw line and the field) of 0.541.” Anthony’s stats put him at a 0.503 effective field goal percentage and a 0.561 true shooting percentage, making him only marginally better than the average player at putting the ball through the hoop.

2. Wins produced
“Wins produced” is a model for estimating individual player contribution to winning and is calculated through box score statistics tracked by the NBA. Taking into account two of the league’s contenders for MVP and pitting them against Anthony, we see the disparity: In the regular season, Durant produced 19.4 wins, James produced 17.8 wins, and Anthony produced just 6.9 wins.

This isn’t just a number limited to the 2013-2014 season, either. Berri reports that in the 2012-2013 season, James produced 21.1 wins, Durant produced 19.2 wins, and Anthony only produced 4.1 wins. This is largely the result of Anthony’s effective field goal percentage and true shooting percentages, which linger close to average, while James and Durant’s figures are significantly higher.

3. Comparison
Sure, we can compare Anthony to James and Durant, but what about when we look at his numbers across the league? Across teams? “Six teams had higher true shooting percentages than Anthony last year,” Berri wrote in The Atlantic. “In fact, on the San Antonio Spurs alone, nine of their 12 players with more than 500 minutes on the court this year posted a higher true shooting percentage than Anthony.” Half a dozen teams that collectively score more efficiently than one of the “best” scorers in the league? The results don’t look good for Anthony.

4. Supporting cast
Despite Anthony asking for a stronger supporting cast, a different story emerges when statistics are taken into account. For this, we turn to the number of wins produced by the supporting casts of the Heat, Thunder, and Knicks: “In 2012-13, the wins produced by everyone on the Heat not named LeBron was 41.0. And when we look at the Oklahoma City Thunder, everyone not named Durant produced 46.3 wins. So each of these players had ‘help.’ But perhaps surprisingly, Anthony had even more help. In 2012-13, everyone not named Carmelo on the Knicks produced 48.0 wins,” Berri said.

Admittedly, the Knicks saw some setbacks in the 2013-2014 season — among them, the injury of Tyson Chandler, the loss of Jason Kidd, and the negative production of wins by Andrea Bargnani. Even with all these changes, however, the disparities between teams are not so great: “[E]very player not named Durant on the Thunder produced 38.5 wins, every player not named James on the Heat produced 36.0 wins, and every player not named Anthony on the Knicks produced 32.0 wins,” writes Berri.

5. Age
Someone had to say it. In the NBA, age is more than a number: It’s usually a representative number. Statistics tell us that players age in a “U-shape,” meaning they gradually get better as they reach 25, peak between 25-26, slowly decline around 30, and then rapidly decline around 32. Anthony will turn 30 on May 29. The NBA’s collective bargaining agreement allows the Knicks to offer Anthony a five-year maximum deal of $129.1 million to stay in New York, which would put him at 35 when the contract expires. Worth it? We’ll see.

6. Playoffs
In his 11 seasons in the NBA, Anthony has only advanced out of the first round of the playoffs twice in his career. This year was the first time in the pros that Anthony hasn’t even made it to the playoffs, something Carmelo said has made everything “cloudy” for him and his future. With Jackson acting as an undoubtedly positive addition to the Knicks franchise, it’s evident that the winds of change are brewing at Madison Square Garden. Only time will tell if Anthony will be around as a beneficiary.