The Solution: Part Two

[kg_veteran]

The other day I suggested some changes that could be made to "fix" the Mavericks. This is the second installment of "The Solution", and it involves a mammoth trade that I think would turn the Mavericks into legitimate title contenders -- now, and in the years to come.



Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (16.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 36.7 minutes)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 38.2 minutes)
SF Antawn Jamison (14.2 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.2 apg in 29.2 minutes)

Dallas receives: SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
PF Juwan Howard (13.6 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 33.2 minutes)
C Andrew DeClercq (4.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.6 minutes)
C Grant Hill (4.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -4.9 ppg, -4.7 rpg, and -0.8 apg.

Orlando trades: SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
PF Juwan Howard (13.6 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 33.2 minutes)
C Andrew DeClercq (4.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.6 minutes)
C Grant Hill (4.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.6 minutes)

Orlando receives: PF Antoine Walker (16.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 19 games)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 19 games)
SF Antawn Jamison (14.2 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.2 apg in 19 games)
Change in team outlook: +4.9 ppg, +4.7 rpg, and +0.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

+++

We'd have to wait until Dec 20th for the various trade restrictions to clear

Here's your new roster:

Bradley - DeClerq - Fortson
Nowitzki - Juwan - Najera
Josh Howard
McGrady - Daniels
Nash - Best - Delk


And if you want to take it even one step further, you deal Najera for Mihm and Sundov.

Mihm - Bradley - DeClerq - Fortson
Nowitzki - Juwan
Josh
McGrady - Daniels
Nash - Best - Delk


Thoughts are welcome...

[bogey]

I like it if for no other reason that it would bother the hell out of murphy3 (he loves Juwan you know [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] )


Of course, Orlando never makes this trade. Their franchise guy is TMac and I cannot see them trading him, even if they are getting value or even winning in the return. But, I would do it in a heartbeat. You probably get nothing out of Hill but a mystery paycheck going off into na-na land, I like Howard's game, I really like what DeClerq has done this season, and of course there is that little throw in McGrady.

[kg_veteran]

Of course, Orlando never makes this trade.

Ah, but they might, especially with things going the way they are in Orlando. This trade would make the Magic a top 4 team in the East right now.

[EricaLubarsky]

Thoughts are welcome...

well Im not sure you are joking or not....[img]i/expressions/moon.gif[/img]

[kg_veteran]

I'm as serious as I can be. I'd make this trade in a heartbeat.

[bogey]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
I'm as serious as I can be. I'd make this trade in a heartbeat.

So would I! I just don't think Orlando could survive the fan backlash of shipping out a superstar in McGrady for non-superstar players. I know Finley is a marquee guy, so are Jamison and Walker, but those superstar type guys are so very rare. A rule in every sport is generally that you don't trade megastars for even a package of great players.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: bogey

So would I! I just don't think Orlando could survive the fan backlash of shipping out a superstar in McGrady for non-superstar players. I know Finley is a marquee guy, so are Jamison and Walker, but those superstar type guys are so very rare. A rule in every sport is generally that you don't trade megastars for even a package of great players.

They don't trade superstars for one or two really good players -- but three? The Magic get three guys who could make the Eastern Conference All-Star team and who legitimately could lead that team deep into the Eastern Conference playoffs. They haven't gotten past the first round with McGrady -- they almost certainly would with this trade.

[Misfit Mav]

Interesting. Orlando has to be worried now that McGrady will fly the coop this summer anyway-- this might be a good way to get something in return for him while they still can. It's obviously a great trade for us. Dirk and TMac would be the best scoring tandem in the league for the next decade, and we'd retain Nash, and with Josh Howard coming on strong we don't even end up with a hole at forward. The only problem I see is that Nellie would quickly resort to using Juwan Howard at center, I think.

The new Orlando line-up would probably be:

Drew Gooden/Steven Hunter
Antoine Walker
Antawn Jamison
Michael Finley
Ty Lue/Reece Gaines

Pretty good for the East. But would they be willing to give up McGrady? I think they might if they are convinced he will not resign. I do not know what's going on behind the scenes in Orlando, although I assume it's ugly. I don't think it will happen, but I wonder if we'll see "McGrady Wants Out" rumours around the trading deadline.

[bogey]

I always put on my GM hat when thinking about deals......

While wearing my Mavs GM hat I make the deal every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
While wearing the Orlando GM hat, I teeter back and forth but never can make myself pull the trigger. I mean...It's TMac for God's sake. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[kg_veteran]

Interesting. Orlando has to be worried now that McGrady will fly the coop this summer anyway-- this might be a good way to get something in return for him while they still can. It's obviously a great trade for us. Dirk and TMac would be the best scoring tandem in the league for the next decade, and we'd retain Nash, and with Josh Howard coming on strong we don't even end up with a hole at forward. The only problem I see is that Nellie would quickly resort to using Juwan Howard at center, I think.

You hit on one of the reasons Orlando might do it -- McGrady's upcoming free agency.

If Nellie uses Juwan at center, so what? Dirk was playing center before this trade, so does it matter who guards whom? Dirk will still effectively be the center on the floor.

The best part of this deal is that three of your five starters would then be 25 or younger. If you added in the Mihm deal, 4 of your 5 starters would be 25 or younger.

Oh yeah, and you'd have two legitimate superstars and an All-NBA point guard as your third best player.

[EricaLubarsky]

as crazy as it seems, Orlando may do it
Who is the GM? Even if he isnt as dumb as Ainge, he might pull the trigger

DeClerq is awful

Orlando doesnt want Hill around anymore

Grant Hill will fill that spot on the IL that needs to be filled and he will be a good surrogate for Alonzo Mourning for star player that will never play again. Hey we were looking for one last summer...

What would it take to get Mihm/Cleveland in on the deal? He and Kaman are the only two youngins that I really like.

Najera>Mihm/Sundov would never happen

[EricaLubarsky]

PS
I hate Juwan Howard
McGrady is Kobe Bryant only more effective on offense and less interested defensively. In other words, a perfect fit
I hate to admit it- but I kinda like parts of the deal.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
PS
I hate Juwan Howard
McGrady is Kobe Bryant only more effective on offense and less interested defensively. In other words, a perfect fit
I hate to admit it- but I kinda like parts of the deal.

Juwan's not a great fit if you have to count on him a lot -- but the Mavs wouldn't have to. He's got a decent low post game and could give the Mavs some bench scoring -- because I envision him as a bench player on this team.

This trade is about McGrady. He makes the deal worth it.

[MavsFanFinley]

Why does Orlando do this deal? They'd be trading away the one good center they have right now. Not to mention Howard, who has been giving a lot of minutes there. Anyway Bradley or Najera can be worked into the deal?

They'd have a logjam at sf with the addition of Jamison. What about Giricek and Harvey? Not to mention Garrity. I know Jamison is clearly an upgrade, but somebody isn't going to be happy.

Hunter/Pachulia
Walker/Gooden
Jamison/Giricek/Harvey/Garrity
Finley/Bogans/Gaines
Lue/Strickland/Williams

[Psychedelic Fuzz]

Ah, but they might, especially with things going the way they are in Orlando. This trade would make the Magic a top 4 team in the East right now.

they should be one already.
I don't see either team trading most of it's marquee guys like this, or Orlando trading away the face of the franchise for anyone. other than that, this deal intriques me. I wouldn't want Grant Hill, we got rid of the dead weight on the roster, we don't need to add more, but that's really the only problem I have.

[MavsFanFinley]

Throw in Bradley and Pat Garrity and the deal still works.

[kg_veteran]

I'd do that if I had to.

[MavsFanFinley]

Orlando would be stupid not to do a trade of Bradley/Walker/Jamison/Finley for DeClercq/Howard/Hill/Garrity/McGrady.

Would Dallas pull the trigger though? I think so.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
Orlando would be stupid not to do a trade of Bradley/Walker/Jamison/Finley for DeClercq/Howard/Hill/Garrity/McGrady.

Would Dallas pull the trigger though? I think so.

We lose any semblance of having a center
We lose out at Forward
-----Two things we went into the season trying to fix


Garrity shoots the three and is a decent, traditional SF
T-Mac is phenomenal.
DeClerq is no better than Eschmeyer
JuWan sucks butt and wouldnt want to come back

but none of that matters since Walker is a point forward and Nellie will never give him up

[Dirkenstien]

This trade seems a bit iffy at first, but just imagining Dirk, Nash, and McGrady on the same team intrigues me very much. Lets hope Orlando continues to lose so this would have a more probable chance of actually happening...this does make them instant competitors though and IMO puts them in a race for the NBA finals, hell perhaps even favorites to go to the finals out of the east.

Nonetheless, this trade makes us younger and if nothing else sets us up to be championship favorites next season if we brought in a decent center. I'd do this in a heart beat and believe it may be difficult to decline atleast without heavy consideration, from both participating teams.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky
Would Dallas pull the trigger though? I think so.

We lose any semblance of having a center

Maybe this year, but the odds seems really good that the Mavs can add a decent center in the offseason in Ostertag. With three scorers like Dirk, McGrady, and Nash, you just need complementary guys around them. Ostertag is that kind of guy.

We lose out at Forward

We lose some depth, but it allows Josh Howard to go ahead and start. Ask yourself this: Who do you view as the small forward of the future? Howard or Jamison? Give me Howard.

[Nash13]

MFF, i thought Garrity had an injury that put him out for the season.

Erica, this is the same GM that let go of Ben Wallace, Chauncy Billups, and Troy Hudson. So this is a possibility.

I think that's a little too much to give up. I'd keep Jamison.

[kg_veteran]

Originally posted by: Nash13
I think that's a little too much to give up. I'd keep Jamison.

I don't see any way that it happens if you don't offer all three.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran

I don't see any way that it happens if you don't offer all three.

yeah, you would definitely have to trade all three to pull McGrady away. IMO this trade makes both teams better and I could see both teams doing it.

[uberfan]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
The other day I suggested some changes that could be made to "fix" the Mavericks. This is the second installment of "The Solution", and it involves a mammoth trade that I think would turn the Mavericks into legitimate title contenders -- now, and in the years to come.



Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (16.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 36.7 minutes)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 38.2 minutes)
SF Antawn Jamison (14.2 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.2 apg in 29.2 minutes)

Dallas receives: SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
PF Juwan Howard (13.6 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 33.2 minutes)
C Andrew DeClercq (4.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.6 minutes)
C Grant Hill (4.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -4.9 ppg, -4.7 rpg, and -0.8 apg.

Orlando trades: SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
PF Juwan Howard (13.6 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 33.2 minutes)
C Andrew DeClercq (4.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.6 minutes)
C Grant Hill (4.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.6 minutes)

Orlando receives: PF Antoine Walker (16.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 19 games)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 19 games)
SF Antawn Jamison (14.2 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.2 apg in 19 games)
Change in team outlook: +4.9 ppg, +4.7 rpg, and +0.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

+++

We'd have to wait until Dec 20th for the various trade restrictions to clear

Here's your new roster:

Bradley - DeClerq - Fortson
Nowitzki - Juwan - Najera
Josh Howard
McGrady - Daniels
Nash - Best - Delk


And if you want to take it even one step further, you deal Najera for Mihm and Sundov.

Mihm - Bradley - DeClerq - Fortson
Nowitzki - Juwan
Josh
McGrady - Daniels
Nash - Best - Delk


Thoughts are welcome...

Interesting, but you knew I was going to tweak it a little, didn't you?

Cleveland trades: SF Ricky Davis (16.5 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 4.9 apg in 37.2 minutes)
PF Chris Mihm (7.9 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 18.2 minutes)
Cleveland receives: C Andrew DeClercq (4.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.6 minutes)
PF Juwan Howard (13.6 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 33.2 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -6.8 ppg, -1.5 rpg, and -3.0 apg.

Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (16.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 36.7 minutes)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 38.2 minutes)
SF Antawn Jamison (14.2 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.2 apg in 29.2 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Ricky Davis (16.5 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 4.9 apg in 18 games)
PF Chris Mihm (7.9 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 0.5 apg in 18 games)
PF Pat Garrity (1.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 2 games)
C Grant Hill (4.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 16 games)
SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 17 games)
Change in team outlook: +2.9 ppg, -3.2 rpg, and +2.7 apg.

Orlando trades: PF Pat Garrity (1.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 11.0 minutes)
C Andrew DeClercq (4.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.6 minutes)
C Grant Hill (4.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.6 minutes)
SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
PF Juwan Howard (13.6 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 33.2 minutes)
Orlando receives: PF Antoine Walker (16.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 19 games)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 19 games)
SF Antawn Jamison (14.2 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.2 apg in 19 games)
Change in team outlook: +3.9 ppg, +4.7 rpg, and +0.3 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Numbers show Oralndo comes out looking pretty good. Cleveland moves Davis without losing any size. In fact, they gain a good vet in Howard. Mavs have their team set for the next two seasons. People like TAW, Fortson and Ricky Davis get exposed to the expansion draft.

We'd still have to wait until Dec 20th for the various trade restrictions to clear

Here's your new roster:

Mihm - Bradley - Fortson
Nowitzki - Najera - Fortson
Josh Howard - Ricky Davis - TAW (when healthy)
McGrady - Davis - Daniels
Nash - Best - Delk

Hill ( best 6th man on IL award winner). Steffanson - IL. Garrity - IL

Sorry, I need to tweak a little more. I want to move Delk and Garrity on somewhere. We have too many players otherwise.

As long as we are looking for the best alternatives for us, here's my second tweak, though I am not sure Knicks would do it. We buy out Ward.

Dallas trades: PG Tony Delk (8.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.8 apg in 20.3 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -8.6 ppg, -2.9 rpg, and -0.8 apg.

New York trades: PG Charlie Ward (9.6 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 5.7 apg in 27.1 minutes)
New York receives: PG Tony Delk (8.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.8 apg in 14 games)
PF Pat Garrity (1.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 2 games)
Change in team outlook: 0.0 ppg, -0.6 rpg, and -4.4 apg.

Orlando trades: PF Pat Garrity (1.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, 0.5 apg in 11.0 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -1.0 ppg, 0.0 rpg, and -0.5 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

[Stressboy]

LRB,

I just think that any rookie, especially one that is an energy player is only good for 20-25 minutes a night. The Refs will give no love to the guy for 1-2 seasons and we could not depend on him for 30-35 like you need for a starter. Down the road this trade pays off, but not this year. Also, the biggest issue you would have trying to trade with Orlando, is they would want Josh Howard instead of AJ. Fin/Walker/Josh Howard would give them much more cap flexibility. I'm sure they think as we all do that, Josh is probably going to be as good as Jamison down the road. He could be better with his defense.

Nash/McGrady/Jamison/Dirk/Bradley(now you really have something for this year) Najera/Fortson/Danials/Best/DeClercq off the bench.

Lou/Fin/Josh Howard/Walker/J Howard only 2 max contracts and 1 is only for this year and the next. They will probably get a lottery pick out this year unless this team were to just destroy the east. It would be best for them to wait until the deadline to ensure as bad a record as possible.

Uberfan,

If you are going to get Cleveland involved, with all the Max contracts being thrown around, then I think you have to put Z into the mix. Would Cleveland want Walker, Jamison or Finley with Juwan Howard for Davis and Z. They really need some good veteran leadership and I think Fin with Juwan would help now and down the road.

Orlando gets: R. Davis, Walker, Josh Howard, Jamison
Cleveland gets: Finley, Juwan Howard
Dallas gets: McGrady, Grant Hill, Big Z

Lineups:

Orlando
PGTyronn Lue/Rod Strickland
SG Ricky Davis/Keith Bogans
SF Antawan Jamison/Josh Howard/Donnell Harvey
PF Antione Walker/Drew Gooden
C Andrew DeClercq/Zaza Pachulia

Cleveland
PG LeBron James/Kevin Ollie
SG Finley/Darius Miles/Wagner
SF Juwan Howard/Ira Newble/Jason Kapono
PF Carlos Boozer
C Chris Mihm/Diop

Dallas
PG Steve Nash/Travis Best
SG Tracy McGrady/Tony Delk/Danials
SF Eduardo Najera/Grant Hill(yea right)
PF Dirk Nowitzki/Danny Fortson
C Zydrunas Ilgauskas/Shawn Bradley

We would be back to sqare 1 on the SF spot unless McGrady started there and we played Delk or Danials at the 2, but we would have improved the 2 and 5 while giving up some depth and youth. I think if you start putting a third franchise in the trade, the odds of pulling this kind of trade off goes way up. Hey if Grant Hill actually played a full season, you would be the best team in the NBA for a short while. I still think the best thing to do is play the big 5 together as much as possible to see if it will work with Josh Howard coming off the bench. The Lakers only true weakness right now is at the 3 and any lineup where we don't dominate that matchup is really one we can't use to beat them. I guess having T-Mac cancel out Kobe would make it a pretty equal matchup. You move Danials, Najera and anyone else on bench to try and keep Josh Howard. Then you put him at the 3 in the lineup above and you are rocking.

Stressboy

[uberfan]

Hill facing 5th surgery and possibility of retirement. Orlando is better off holding on to him than making the trade as proposed. If he retires they would get cap relief much sooner (unless Walker opts out which is not likely).

I just don't see Z as a help to this team, unless you are willing to change to a half-court style offense. Ilike Mihm better than Z at this time for a number of reasons aleady discussed elsewhere.

The reality is that the best option for the Mavs is to stay with what we have. If all here are willing to conced that this trade proposal does not vault you past LAL this year, then start the Big 5 and hope to get off to a fast start against the better teams. Rotate in our solid bench guys when we need defensive stops.

Next year, after the expansion draft, pick up the other pieces needed in FA, mostly another center. There are several available who can help us then.

[SaltwaterChaffy]

I love the idea of this trade. It seems to work out for both teams in terms of talent. I would love to have T-Mac here, and I think we could challenge right now for the championship, but certainly would be in contention for the next 5 years.

But something seems askew. Maybe I missed it while scrolling through the thread. If so, someone point it out to me.

Why would Orlando take on these contracts? They would be stuck with 3 max player deals. AW's expires in a year and a half, but AJ's and Fin's last another 5 or so years, correct? Why would this be acceptable in their eyes?

[LRB]

Originally posted by: uberfan
Hill facing 5th surgery and possibility of retirement. Orlando is better off holding on to him than making the trade as proposed. If he retires they would get cap relief much sooner (unless Walker opts out which is not likely).

I just don't see Z as a help to this team, unless you are willing to change to a half-court style offense. Ilike Mihm better than Z at this time for a number of reasons aleady discussed elsewhere.

The reality is that the best option for the Mavs is to stay with what we have. If all here are willing to conced that this trade proposal does not vault you past LAL this year, then start the Big 5 and hope to get off to a fast start against the better teams. Rotate in our solid bench guys when we need defensive stops.

Next year, after the expansion draft, pick up the other pieces needed in FA, mostly another center. There are several available who can help us then.

Even if Hill's salary goes off the books, Orlando still doesn't have that much cap room. Certainly not to get the caliber of players we'd be offering.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Stressboy
LRB,

I just think that any rookie, especially one that is an energy player is only good for 20-25 minutes a night. The Refs will give no love to the guy for 1-2 seasons and we could not depend on him for 30-35 like you need for a starter. Down the road this trade pays off, but not this year. Also, the biggest issue you would have trying to trade with Orlando, is they would want Josh Howard instead of AJ. Fin/Walker/Josh Howard would give them much more cap flexibility. I'm sure they think as we all do that, Josh is probably going to be as good as Jamison down the road. He could be better with his defense.

Nash/McGrady/Jamison/Dirk/Bradley(now you really have something for this year) Najera/Fortson/Danials/Best/DeClercq off the bench.

Lou/Fin/Josh Howard/Walker/J Howard only 2 max contracts and 1 is only for this year and the next. They will probably get a lottery pick out this year unless this team were to just destroy the east. It would be best for them to wait until the deadline to ensure as bad a record as possible.

Rooks can and have gotten 30 to 35 minutes per game. But Jamison isn't even getting that, so we don't have to have him come in with that much. Besides it's not like we're going to win the championship this year. So we make the trade for next year. Either we get a new coach, or we keep waiting for Shaq to get old and retire, or just injured, so we can make a strong run. Heck even if something happens this year, we're not necessarily any worse off than before. TMac could be just the explosive penetrator and scorer that this team needs to push them over the top. I like the players we have now, but I don't like the team. We have possibly more talent now overall, but it's much more diltued. I like our chances with a condensed talent with this trade.

[Mavs Rule]

I would love to have T-mac, but this trade has alot of downside for the mavs IMO.

We lose all depth and would have no bench at all with the exception of Juwan. That is going to put tremendous pressure on the starters. Having Juwan Howard back on the team is not attractive at all. He is a matador, and with him, our second team would be LUCKY just to keep pace with the opponent's bench.

We lose the increased rebounding we have been experiencing. Dirk would have to revert to last years 10 boards/game to keep us competitive.

I don't think Josh would be ready to take this kind of responsibility this soon, and could be detrimental to his long-term growth. Plus as a starter he would hurt us in shooting percentage immediately IMO, unless he toned down his number of shots/minute. He also might hurt us in the playoffs with his inexperience short-term.

What if T-mac bolts once his contract is up? Then we are left with a huge hole that there will be no way to fill. While unlikely, we could drop to possibly a non-playoff team, since everyone would key on Dirk and Steve.

This still doesn't address our lack of a good center.

That said, I would like like to have another penetrator who can also dish other than Nash . It would open up Dirk unbelievably! But, I don't see how the few positives will outweigh the negatives. I would think Orlando would jump on this trade, but I would expect to see reservation from the Mavs. After all, they have lost 19 in a row for a reason.

[Max Power]

Walker currently gets 36.9 minutes - 17.2 ppg and 10.3 boards
Finley currently gets 38.4 minutes - 16.3 ppg and 4.7 boards
Jamison currently gets 29.2 minutes - 14.4 ppg and 6.7 boards
Total 104.5 minutes - 47.9 ppg and 21.7 boards

Dirk currently gets 35.1 minutes - 19.2 ppg and 7.3 boards. There is no reason to assume that Dirk can't resume last year's production of 39.0 minutes, 25.1 ppg and 9.9 boards. An increase of 3.9 minutes, 5.9 ppg, and 2.6 boards

McGrady currently gets 39.5 minutes - 24.8 ppg and 6.3 boards. He would have the same minutes and production with the Mavs

Juwan currently gets 33.7 minutes - 14.2 ppg and 6.9 boards. He would probably get cut to 28.5 minutes or so which would be 12.0 ppg and 5.6 boards

Josh currently gets 15.9 minutes - 6.4 ppg and 4.7 boards. He would probably get increased to 24.0 minutes or so which would be 9.6 ppg and 8.4 boards. An increase of 8.1 minutes, 3.2 ppg, and 3.7 boards

The planned additions and changes would be 80 mintues, 45.9 ppg & 18.2 boards

That leaves another 24.5 minutes to add 2.0 ppg and 3.5 boards. Even TAW could do THAT.

[Jeremiah]

I'd like to see TMac in Dallas, it'd be pretty cool. He'd give us a slashing, posting up, jumpshooting superstar that would put even more butts in the seats. He might just be the answer to the Mavs not having a center and winning a championship. Dirk and Tmac and Nash would make a pretty scary threesome.

I don't however, think #5 is ready for a full game every game. 20 min max per. That potential that is so obvious now, I don't think would be playing nearly a full game every game...but that's besides the point, I'm sure Nellie could make it work by using Delk or Best, or the former #5...which, I, btw, think played well when he was here, and wouldn't mind having back.

Back to the trade. I think it'd be a steal for the Mavs and I'd vote for it. There's one thing though that I think some in support of it are missing. If Tmac comes, you can forget seeing the offense run through Dirk. It'll go through Tmac, and he'll be jordan with Dirk playing pippen. That'll happen because Nellie will make it happen, and Tmac will relish that role. I've no problem with that, though.

[Psychedelic Fuzz]

I said before that this trade is growing on me, but if the objective is to beat the fakers next year or the year after, someone had to point out that we are going to be in a pretty good position after this year anyway. Malone is not the average 40 year old, but he's still 40 and it WILL catch up to him eventually, same with Payton. You have to figure they won't stick around long if they get the rings anyway, and once they leave, we'll see the same fat, whiny, disinterested shaq we know and love...plus that other thing the lakers will have to deal with later in the year
Meanwhile, we have two fantastic young forwards, one of whom just might be the most gifted offensive player in the league, a point guard who is hitting the prime of his career and two young guards oozing potential.

[jayC]

1) We are only 19 games into the season. Its a little early to talk about breaking up the team. To top it off Dirk has missed the past five games and nash has missed parts of two others.

That being said if you told me we didn't have to give up nash or Dirk to get T-Mac. Duh! Id do it in a heartbeat. As good as Jamison and Walker are they both are tweeners not really a powerforward not really a small forward. As much as Nellie loves Walker you don't get a chance to trade for a top five player often. What ever we get from Juwan and DeClerq is really icing on top.

[thewillis12]

i would never do this trade. doing this trade shows that you are not a true mavs fan. everyone agrees that dirk is the franchise player. bring in mcgrady and you have another ball hog who wants to shoot20 - 25 times. this would NOT imporve us.

[thewillis12]

i would never do this trade. doing this trade shows that you are not a true mavs fan. everyone agrees that dirk is the franchise player. bring in mcgrady and you have another ball hog who wants to shoot20 - 25 times. this would NOT imporve us.

[Dirkenstien]

Originally posted by: thewillis12
i would never do this trade. doing this trade shows that you are not a true mavs fan. everyone agrees that dirk is the franchise player. bring in mcgrady and you have another ball hog who wants to shoot20 - 25 times. this would NOT imporve us.

Another ball hog? ..we'd be shipping Walker, Finley, and Jamison out...meaning we'd have Dirk (not a ball hog) Nash..obviously not a ball hog, and McGrady who in my opinion is not a ball hog, also you have to consider as I have stated above that TMac statistically is more of a passer than Walker. The rest of the players on the court would definitely not be considered ball hogs..so where is your logic?

[Simon2]

No way! That's basically McGRady for 3 good guys. He's good but he's not that good.

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
The other day I suggested some changes that could be made to "fix" the Mavericks. This is the second installment of "The Solution", and it involves a mammoth trade that I think would turn the Mavericks into legitimate title contenders -- now, and in the years to come.



Dallas trades: PF Antoine Walker (16.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 36.7 minutes)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 38.2 minutes)
SF Antawn Jamison (14.2 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.2 apg in 29.2 minutes)

Dallas receives: SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
PF Juwan Howard (13.6 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 33.2 minutes)
C Andrew DeClercq (4.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.6 minutes)
C Grant Hill (4.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -4.9 ppg, -4.7 rpg, and -0.8 apg.

Orlando trades: SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
PF Juwan Howard (13.6 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 33.2 minutes)
C Andrew DeClercq (4.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.6 minutes)
C Grant Hill (4.0 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.6 apg in 12.6 minutes)

Orlando receives: PF Antoine Walker (16.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 19 games)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 19 games)
SF Antawn Jamison (14.2 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.2 apg in 19 games)
Change in team outlook: +4.9 ppg, +4.7 rpg, and +0.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

+++

We'd have to wait until Dec 20th for the various trade restrictions to clear

Here's your new roster:

Bradley - DeClerq - Fortson
Nowitzki - Juwan - Najera
Josh Howard
McGrady - Daniels
Nash - Best - Delk


And if you want to take it even one step further, you deal Najera for Mihm and Sundov.

Mihm - Bradley - DeClerq - Fortson
Nowitzki - Juwan
Josh
McGrady - Daniels
Nash - Best - Delk


Thoughts are welcome...

[Ummmmm Ok]

Would have to wait until the 20th before any trade went down
Antoine Walker Dallas Recently was traded 20th December, 2003
Juwan Howard Orlando Recently signed a contract 15th December, 2003
Scottie Pippen Chicago Recently signed a contract 15th December, 2003


Dallas trades:
PF Antoine Walker (16.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 36.7 minutes)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 38.2 minutes)
SF Antawn Jamison (14.2 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.2 apg in 29.2 minutes)
Dallas receives:
PF Juwan Howard (13.6 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 33.2 minutes)
SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
SG Grant Hill (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
PF Tyson Chandler (13.0 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 28.6 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +4.1 ppg, +2.3 rpg, and -0.4 apg.

Orlando trades:
PF Juwan Howard (13.6 ppg, 7.0 rpg, 1.8 apg in 33.2 minutes)
SG Tracy McGrady (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
SG Grant Hill (24.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 5.3 apg in 39.3 minutes)
Orlando receives:
PF Antoine Walker (16.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 19 games)
SG Michael Finley (16.0 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 3.0 apg in 19 games)
SF Scottie Pippen (7.1 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 12 games)
PF Marcus Fizer (6.0 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.3 apg in 8 games)
Change in team outlook: +7.8 ppg, +7.6 rpg, and +3.4 apg.

Chicago trades:
SF Scottie Pippen (7.1 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 2.9 apg in 22.3 minutes)
PF Marcus Fizer (6.0 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.3 apg in 10.0 minutes)
PF Tyson Chandler (13.0 ppg, 10.3 rpg, 1.0 apg in 28.6 minutes)
Chicago receives:
SF Antawn Jamison (14.2 ppg, 6.7 rpg, 1.2 apg in 19 games)
Change in team outlook: -11.9 ppg, -9.9 rpg, and -3.0 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED


I like this trade better for the Dallas standpoint. We would have a lineup of: Nash, McGrady, Josh H., Dirk, Chandler. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Chicago has a logjam now at the pf/c Positions so why not just clean some of that up and get a real Scorer in Jamison. They would still have Davis and Curry to fill in at the Center position for the loss of Chandler.

Orlando is the catcher. They would lose McGrady and Howard, but get back Finley, Walker, Fizer, and Pippen. This is a very old lineup, but it will have lots of leadership. Lue, Finley, Pippen, Walker, and Gooden/Fizer would work out pretty good in the East.

p.s. As to KG's Proposal, Orlando would jump all over that trade. I just don't think Dallas would do that trade without addressing their need for a big man.