More Bad News for Kerry: U.S. Economy Creates 144,000 New Jobs

[LRB]

U.S. Economy Creates 144,000 New Jobs

WASHINGTON — U.S. employers added 144,000 workers to their payrolls in August and hiring totals for the two prior months were revised up as the job market brightened, the Labor Department (search) reported on Friday.

The unemployment rate (search) dipped to 5.4 percent last month from 5.5 percent in July. But the drop in the jobless rate in August came as people left the work force for any number of reasons, the Labor Department said. Economists were predicting the jobless rate to hold steady in August.

The gain in payrolls was short of the 150,000 net jobs that economists were calling for. However, it represented the biggest jobs gain since May and marked the 12th month in a row that payrolls grew.

Job gains for July were revised up to 73,000, still a lackluster number but an improvement from the 32,000 advance first estimated. Payrolls for June also were revised up to show a larger gain than first reported.

The latest snapshot of the jobs climate comes just two months before the presidential election. President Bush, who hurried back to the campaign trail after accepting the Republican party's nomination for a second term Thursday, and his Democratic rival, John Kerry, joust frequently over the health of the economy and the availability of jobs.


The report created a slightly more favorable picture for summer job growth, but is likely to leave unresolved for now whether the economy was successfully shaking off a June soft patch as Federal Reserve (search) policymakers expect it to do.

In August retail and automobile sales came in sluggish, consumer confidence dropped and manufacturing activity grew at a slower pace.

The Fed, in a bid to keep inflation from becoming a problem, boosted short-term interest rates twice this year. That has left a key rate controlled by the Fed at 1.50 percent, still low by historical standards. The Fed's next meeting is Sept. 21. Some economists believe the Fed will push rates by another one-quarter percentage point at that time.

Economists want to see at least 200,000 net jobs added a month on a consistent basis before declaring the labor market fully healed.

The payrolls figure and the unemployment rate can sometimes go in different directions because they are derived from two separate statistical surveys.

The unemployment rate is calculated from a survey of around 60,000 households in which people are asked to state whether they have jobs or are looking for work. The unemployment rate in August fell as the labor force shrank by 152,000 from the previous month.

The survey used to calculate the payroll figure -- seen as a better barometer of the labor market's health by many economist -- is based on information from about 160,000 businesses and government agencies, covering roughly 400,000 individual work sites.

Reuters and the Associated Press contributed to this report.

[knowitall]

Replacement jobs with a sweet 9% cut in pay.

[Drbio]

Originally posted by: knowitall
Replacement jobs with a sweet 9% cut in pay.

Total speculation.....source?

[Mavdog]

Is the glass half full as you want to claim ("Bad news for Kerry") or is the glass half empty?

It seems more of the later than the former. There was a positive in job growth, but with also with an increase in workers who gave up looking.

The biggest problem is the decline in retail sales and the moderation in the manufacturing recovery. Both have been fueling the economy's expansion, without these continuing to contribute we could be sliding backwards.

BTW the only retailing categories who are showing strength are the upper end merchants. That shows that the middle and lower classes are feeling some pain.

It will be interesting to see if the Fed continues to ratchet up rates. We may need to keep cheap money around longer.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Mavdog



It seems more of the later than the former. There was a positive in job growth, but with also with an increase in workers who gave up looking.

Not what the article says: "But the drop in the jobless rate in August came as people left the work force for any number of reasons, the Labor Department said. Economists were predicting the jobless rate to hold steady in August."

[dude1394]

Unemployment rate...5.4%...scoreboard..

[knowitall]

He's turned a record surplus into a record deficit to about 500 billion.

We have lost over a million jobs.

Every year the number of Americans living in poverty has gone up.

Every year the number of Americans without insurance has gone up.

He has eliminated or at least reduced taxes on dividends, interest and capitol gains. Another blow to the middle class.

Bush invades Iraq, which spurs the growth of Al Qaeda.

Social Security surplus was supposed to be untouchable......we all know what happened there.

He's reduced the pollution standards and limited their enforcement.

We have gone from being supported and respected by virtually all nations to being the most disliked and least trusted nation in the world.


And the worst is yet to come. When our children are being taught how to allow for wind when firing a weapon over great distances.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: knowitall
He's turned a record surplus into a record deficit to about 500 billion.

We have lost over a million jobs.

Every year the number of Americans living in poverty has gone up.

Every year the number of Americans without insurance has gone up.

He has eliminated or at least reduced taxes on dividends, interest and capitol gains. Another blow to the middle class.

Bush invades Iraq, which spurs the growth of Al Qaeda.

Social Security surplus was supposed to be untouchable......we all know what happened there.

He's reduced the pollution standards and limited their enforcement.

We have gone from being supported and respected by virtually all nations to being the most disliked and least trusted nation in the world.


And the worst is yet to come. When our children are being taught how to allow for wind when firing a weapon over great distances.

Thank you for your opinion. Now my opinion is that you post is a onesided spin doctored load of crap.

[subliminal2k3]

LRB, how is that his "opinion"?? Those are FACTS backed with actual data. Can't u distinguish between opinions and facts??
Now I think ur OPINION is totally worthless in the face of FACTS.

[madape]

[LRB]

Originally posted by: subliminal2k3
LRB, how is that his "opinion"?? Those are FACTS backed with actual data. Can't u distinguish between opinions and facts??
Now I think ur OPINION is totally worthless in the face of FACTS.

You're new to the board so you may want to read many of the past post where knowsbutlittle has repeatedly been shown how these "facts" are distorted half truths at best before you ignorantly shoot your mouth off like like a jackass(as in democrat mascot). And if you would care to open your eyes, there are no references to fact check these "facts", there are also conclusions drawn which are indeed opinion and not fact. So if some one as ignorant and obtsuse as you doesn't value my opinion, it's really no big deal.

[Epitome22]

This is good news. If this keeps up, There will be almost as many jobs in this country at the end of Bush's administration as there were...in the beginning of Bush's administration.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Epitome22
This is good news. If this keeps up, There will be almost as many jobs in this country at the end of Bush's administration as there were...in the beginning of Bush's administration.

So you agree that Bush is handling the crisis created by Clinton in an excellent fashion.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: knowitall
He's turned a record surplus into a record deficit to about 500 billion.

"The final 2004 gap is widely expected to set a new record topping $400 billion. In its recent budget review, the Office of Management and Budget said it expects the deficit to be about $445 billion this year, while the Congressional Budget Office has projected a more conservative $422 billion.

Democrats have placed much of the blame for the return to annual deficits -- after surpluses seen from 1998 through 2001 -- on the Bush administration's tax cuts."

Article

We have lost over a million jobs.

"The economy has lost 913,000 jobs since Bush took office"

Article

Every year the number of Americans living in poverty has gone up.

"The number of Americans living in poverty increased last year, with nearly 36 million people below the poverty line, 1.3 million more than last year, the U.S. Census Bureau reported yesterday...Poverty rates have also been climbing for three years. Census Bureau officials yesterday blamed the growth in poverty on the aftereffects of the recession of 2001. "

Article

Every year the number of Americans without insurance has gone up.

"The percentage of uninsured has risen from 14.2 percent in 2000 to 15.2 in 2002 and 15.6 percent last year."

Article

He has eliminated or at least reduced taxes on dividends, interest and capitol gains. Another blow to the middle class.

"There are two areas of the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 that are of interest to all traders and investors. First is the decrease in the capital gain tax rate and second is the dramatic reduction on the tax rate on dividends"

Article

Bush invades Iraq, which spurs the growth of Al Qaeda.

this is indeed opinion as there is no accurate account of al Queda's membership. May be true...

Social Security surplus was supposed to be untouchable......we all know what happened there.

"BUSH PLEDGES NOT TO TOUCH SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS... "We're going to keep the promise of Social Security and keep the government from raiding the Social Security surplus." [President Bush, 3/3/01]

...BUSH SPENDS SOCIAL SECURITY SURPLUS The New York Times reported that "the president's new budget uses Social Security surpluses to pay for other programs every year through 2013, ultimately diverting more than $1.4 trillion in Social Security funds to other purposes." [The New York Times, 2/6/02]

He's reduced the pollution standards and limited their enforcement.

"MARCH 13, 2001 Bush reneges on campaign promise to reduce carbon dioxide emissions"
"DECEMBER 24, 2003 Federal court blocks EPA plan to weaken Clean Air Act by exempting power plants from review"
"JANUARY 22, 2004 EPA scales back monitoring of smokestack pollution"
"JANUARY 30, 2004 Parts of EPA's mercury-pollution plan lifted verbatim from industry memos"
"FEBRUARY 6, 2004 Clean Air Act changes undermining enforcement, says former EPA official"
"APRIL 7, 2004 White House downplays effects of mercury from coal-fired power plants
"JUNE 2, 2004 New EPA rules allow more fine-particle pollution from 1,000 industrial plants"

Article

We have gone from being supported and respected by virtually all nations to being the most disliked and least trusted nation in the world.

certainly opinion, may be right...

And the worst is yet to come. When our children are being taught how to allow for wind when firing a weapon over great distances.

Originally posted by: LRB

Thank you for your opinion. Now my opinion is that you post is a onesided spin doctored load of crap.

looks like you're very, very wrong. Those are almost all validated FACTS.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Mavdog



looks like you're very, very wrong. Those are almost all validated FACTS.

And yet more smoke spews out of Mavdogs ass. No wonder pollution is so bad. [img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img]

It would be nice if you could learn to tell fact from opinion. You've listed a bunch of opinions that interpret facts. There is a difference, but I guess it's not really fair to expect someone like you to be able to discern it.

[Drbio]

Have you ever contributed to this forum knowsnothing? I mean other than throwing a few topic titles out there I have never seen you discuss the meat of the issues but rather only engage in pissing matches and make claims that you have personal insight (complete with manufactured examples and stories) to whatever the topic is for that day.

[knowitall]

Doc, if you're interested in the "meat", then let go of yours and look it up.

[subliminal2k3]

Thanks Mavdog, you did a way better jobs than me. I am new to forum posting and I still need to get better at it[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[Mavdog]

so, the "fact" is that they estimate the deficit to be a record $445 B rather than the record $500 B mentioned? OK, a clarification of the facts stated. of course, the statement said "about $500 B": "He's turned a record surplus into a record deficit to about 500 billion" so it's accurate.
That passes the test.

As for the recent <u>monthly job report</u> yes, the estimate was 144,000 net job gain, the point was how many jobs were lost in the term, As it is estimated at 933,000, we need to clarify the statement which said "We have lost over a million jobs" to say "We have lost over 900,000 jobs", perhaps the most recent numbers weren't included.
That passes the test.

now the point "Every year the number of Americans living in poverty has gone up". The statement said nothing about "rates" so the link you provided doesn't apply. The statement you called "crap" is correct, the number of Americans in poverty has gone up" every year.
That passes the test.

Now the uninsured. What you are trying to do by referencing the population of 1990 only you can understand, but the fact is that the number of uninsured Americans has increased each year of the Bush presidency (2000-2003). that is, of course, the subject, the Bush term in office...the statement "Every year the number of Americans without insurance has gone up" is factual. no "opinion"
That passes the test.

Dividends and capital gains. While you I believe agree that the first part is factual "He has eliminated or at least reduced taxes on dividends, interest and capitol gains." you dispute the later part of "Another blow to the middle class". You might have a point that this is opinion, although with the data that shows an increasing burden of the tax payments borne by the middle class, less by the higher incomes, the statement can be supported.
Passes the test, although ended in a grey area.

yep, a factual set of statements.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Mavdog
so, the "fact" is that they estimate the deficit to be a record $445 B rather than the record $500 B mentioned? OK, a clarification of the facts stated. of course, the statement said "about $500 B": "He's turned a record surplus into a record deficit to about 500 billion" so it's accurate.
That passes the test.

Mavdog at times you can be an utter moron and now is one of those times. $445 billion is closer to $400 billion than $500 billion, and the only stretch that makes it about $500 billion is opinion. So it fails to pass the fact test. But this isn't what makes me call you an utter moron. What leads me to apply that label to you is the utter moron is where Knowitall applies the blame to Bush. That is clearly an opinion and in no way facts. You can substantiate your opinion with fact, how ever there are far too many variables in play to assign the blame to one man. Only an complete and utter moron would try and pass that off as fact.

As for the recent <u>monthly job report</u> yes, the estimate was 144,000 net job gain, the point was how many jobs were lost in the term, As it is estimated at 933,000, we need to clarify the statement which said "We have lost over a million jobs" to say "We have lost over 900,000 jobs", perhaps the most recent numbers weren't included.
That passes the test.

Another moronic statement. In no way is 993,000 over a million lost jobs. Sure if you change it to over 900,000 it works. But hell if I could change my lottery picks after the fact I would would win everytime. Knowitall's statement was not a fact. It was completely false. You're just too damn obtuse to admit it. But she didn't even clarify who the we was. It could be Texas or whereever she's living now, the world, Ireland or Europe which she claims to be from, or who knows what. She doesn't clarify the time frame. This statement is too ambigious to have any relevance as fact. It is completely nonsensical.

now the point "Every year the number of Americans living in poverty has gone up". The statement said nothing about "rates" so the link you provided doesn't apply. The statement you called "crap" is correct, the number of Americans in poverty has gone up" every year.
That passes the test.

No this is does not pass the test or even come close. 1st I show that the rates of poverty have gone gone down in the past in subsequent years. And while that may not be the same the numbers it strongly suggest that the numbers have gone down. However there is absolutely no proof whatsoever to suggest that the number of people living in poverty has gone up every year from 1776 until 2003, which is what Knowitall claims with her statement that: "Every year the number of Americans living in poverty has gone up. " To be a fact it has to be proven not just not able to be unproven.

Now the uninsured. What you are trying to do by referencing the population of 1990 only you can understand, but the fact is that the number of uninsured Americans has increased each year of the Bush presidency (2000-2003). that is, of course, the subject, the Bush term in office...the statement "Every year the number of Americans without insurance has gone up" is factual. no "opinion"
That passes the test.

Another moronic spin by Mavdog. Knowitall never mention the Bush presidency. You're doing the apples and oranges comparison. She said "Every year the number of Americans without insurance has gone up." She did not mention bush but made a hyperbole statement. One of my main criticisms of Knowitall is that she doesn't include crucial details like this and expects her audience to assume a lot such as you have. However assuming is not fact, it is opinion. It is your opinion of what she meant. So go crawl back under your rock of denial.

Dividends and capital gains. While you I believe agree that the first part is factual "He has eliminated or at least reduced taxes on dividends, interest and capitol gains." you dispute the later part of "Another blow to the middle class". You might have a point that this is opinion, although with the data that shows an increasing burden of the tax payments borne by the middle class, less by the higher incomes, the statement can be supported.
Passes the test, although ended in a grey area.

Whether you are just plain stupid or obtuse I've yet to decide, but one thing you should have been able to determine if you weren't one or both of those is that I did not agree that Bush was solely responsible for reduced taxes on capitol gains, dividends, and interest. While I might wish I could truthfully claim that this was true, I know that it is not a fact. These could not of been put into effect without the approval of congress. Bush has no vote whatsoever in congress. He can only try to persuade others to vote. He can and did sign these measures into law instead of vetoing them or refusing to sign. But they had to be approved by congress to get to Bush. I do give him big credit, or in your terms "blame", for getting this done, but certainly nowhere close to 100%.

Now as to the opinion that this has hurt the middle class, it is opinion. You may show some facts that support that opinion, but that is just one interpretation of those facts. Interpretation is just opinion. Only an idiot would argue that this was fact.

It's OK to have opinions. But please don't try and pass them off as facts. And more importantly don't try and pass completely false statements off as facts.

[dude1394]

Let's see... bush inherited a recession from clinton. After a huge tech bubble explosion. Then we are hit with the largest attack on our soil in history. Bush's response was to pass another tax hike to try and keep the economy afloat. He does. And the gotcha dems hypocritcally whine about deficits.

If gore had been in office I guess he would have raised taxes to get us out of the recession.

You folks are perfect democrats, just like kerry, reality doesn't count, it's all about regaining power. In all of the oh woe is me, what are YOUR and the dems plans? Kerry's is to raise taxes and they spend 3-4 times as much all the while cutting the deficit in half.

Yup, the party of fiscal discipline.

[dude1394]

I think he saw a real president last night and realized his candidate is a joke.

[Mavdog]

so, to sum it up:

You don't blame Bush (<u>the subject</u>, of course) for the record deficits. He submitted them, he signed them, but he's not responsible. They are record deficits of course. and this year it is close to $500 Million as was posted...

The figure of "over a million" who lost their jobs isn't right, but almost a million job losses during Bush's term (<u>the subject</u>, of course) does. or over 900,000 works. or between 900,000 and a million.

the statement "Every year the number of Americans living in poverty has gone up." doesn't work if one takes the time period of 1776 to today, but when looked at during the Bush term (<u>the subject</u>, of course) it is factual and accurate. (your discussion of 1776 was pretty funny tho...)

When you take the comment on uninsured to a different subject than Bush's term (<u>the subject</u>, of course), it doesn't work. Yet it does work when describing Bush's term (<u>the subject</u>, of course) of which it was written.

Bush was not responsible for the changes in taxes on capital gains, dividends and interest income, although they were his proposals...and he signed them into Law.

You have no facts to back up your position on affects of those cuts on the middle class, but without reason you dismiss mine (the middle class has paid a higher percent of taxes) and say your right.

admirable defense..:roll

[Drbio]

So to sum it up: Mavdookie refuses to read the opposing view and comprehend it. He only dismisses others posts as placeholders between his crapola.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Drbio
So to sum it up: Mavdookie refuses to read the opposing view and comprehend it. He only dismisses others posts as placeholders between his crapola.

Thanks Doc. I'll add one more point for Mavdog, he even refuses to comprehend what this whole discussion is about. It's not about Bush. It's about Knowitall. It's about Mavdog and a couple of other liberal idiots trying to pass inaccurate facts as accurate and pass opinions for fact. Admit it Mavdog, Knowit did not post all facts or even mostly facts. Concede this point and we can go on and talk about the merits of Bush. However I begin to believe if it's possible for you to concede any points in your obtuse and partisan mind.

[Mavdog]

It's not about Bush. It's about Knowitall.

no, it is what knowitall said about Bush, and your response of

Thank you for your opinion. Now my opinion is that you post is a onesided spin doctored load of crap

which it wasn't.

Knowitall's post is about the Bush record, and it is accurate, Yes the "over a million jobs" was off as the true figure is under a million....it remains a ton of jobs.

The number of uninsured has gone up every year during his term, the number of households in poverty has increased each year of his term, it's a fact jack.

The promise not to touch the social security funds was broken. You may see a reason, but the promise was broken.

The environemntal regulations on air emissions have loosened during the Bush term.

The part about al queda? like I said, opinion.

Our international standing? pretty much opinion. Polls do support the point tho.

Why can't you admit that her post was mostly accurate?

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Mavdog



Why can't you admit that her post was mostly accurate?

Because it wasn't accurate. But my complaint was that she stated it as fact when it's clearly not. Even you admit that some of it's inaccurate. You said "Yes the "over a million jobs" was off "

Why can't you admit that it's mostly opinion and the facts are either off or very ambigiously phrased at best? My guess it because you, like John Kerry, have a huge problem admitting that you're wrong.

[Mavdog]

I can't believe you continue to deny. what a joke.

the jobs figure was off a few percent so everything else "wasn't accurate"?

this has become absurd, you ignore all the supported facts.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Mavdog
I can't believe you continue to deny. what a joke.

the jobs figure was off a few percent so everything else "wasn't accurate"?

this has become absurd, you ignore all the supported facts.

This from the person who won't even admit that Kerry made his Vietnam service a major part of his campaign. Growup Mavdog. You can call opinions facts until you're blue in the fact, but it won't make it so. Opinion supported by fact, is still opinion. And many of your facts are circumspect at best.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: LRB

This from the person who won't even admit that Kerry made his Vietnam service a major part of his campaign. Growup Mavdog.

The claim was "the centerpiece of his campaign", NOT "a major part". Another in a long line of inaccuracies in your posts. I know who needs to "growup" and it's not me.

You can call opinions facts until you're blue in the fact, but it won't make it so. Opinion supported by fact, is still opinion. And many of your facts are circumspect at best.

LMAO! This coming from the person who denies the statistical facts by trying to nuance the subject of the post away from Bush.

Explain again how the number of uninsured hasn't increased every year of the Bush term? How about explaining how the number of households living in poverty hasn't gone up during the Bush term? What about explaining how the record federal deficit isn't really a record federal deficit?

Tell me, why do you call statistics "opinion"?

too funny....

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Mavdog

The claim was "the centerpiece of his campaign", NOT "a major part". Another in a long line of inaccuracies in your posts. I know who needs to "growup" and it's not me.

LMAO! This coming from the person who denies the statistical facts by trying to nuance the subject of the post away from Bush.

Explain again how the number of uninsured hasn't increased every year of the Bush term? How about explaining how the number of households living in poverty hasn't gone up during the Bush term? What about explaining how the record federal deficit isn't really a record federal deficit?

Tell me, why do you call statistics "opinion"?

too funny....

Mavdog your are either the most obtuse or the most blind person I've have become acquainted with or possibly both.

How stupid are you to keep insisting that conclusions drawn from facts are indeed facts instead of opinions where many different and conflicting conclusions can be drawn from those same facts.

How inane to keep saying that you denied that Vietnam was the centerpiece of Kerry's campaign, when that is the generally accped perception. But even more inane when you deny that Kerry's Vietnam service was a key part of his campaign platform and then turn around and deny saying it. Sigh.

How dense are you to take a post by me criticizing a post by knowitall for not being all fact as she and other claimed and make it about arguing Bush's fitness as President and not even have the brains to see that you changed the subject totally.


How moronic is it to start talking about the level of poverty rising during the Bush presidency when this was not clarified at all in the original post.

If you want to argue about Bush, fine make some statements about him and we'll argue. But my post is talking about the ambigiousness of knowitlittle's posts in general and one in particular. I'm talking about how she posted opinions as facts. How supposed facts were either inaccurate to stated to ambigiously to determine with a reasonable certainty what she meant.

[knowitall]

LRB, I think your coming apart. Now hang on and brace yourself for impact.

[Drbio]

Mavdookie telling LRB that he is ignoring facts has to be one of the most sadly ironic posts in d-m.com history. [img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img]

[knowitall]

LRB, everything I stated came off the top of my head. I don't spend countless hours looking for articles to support my opinion. Fascinating how accurate my statement turned out to be. Yes, I was slightly wrong on a few figures. I was estimating. I knew I would be close. I've been observing Mr. Bush and his failures since he took office. Anyone can use unmatched military power. After that his bag is empty. Go ahead. Serve up your retort. We know what you will say already. Because you are the master of kidding yourself.

[knowitall]

BREAKING NEWS................The sudden disappearance of LRB.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: knowitall
LRB, everything I stated came off the top of my head. I don't spend countless hours looking for articles to support my opinion. Fascinating how accurate my statement turned out to be. Yes, I was slightly wrong on a few figures. I was estimating. I knew I would be close. I've been observing Mr. Bush and his failures since he took office. Anyone can use unmatched military power. After that his bag is empty. Go ahead. Serve up your retort. We know what you will say already. Because you are the master of kidding yourself.

And yet more inane nonsense surrounded by hatred. Maybe if you might learn to write in coherent paragraphs, you might get rid of the nonsense. Maybe if you would spend a few minutes researching facts and learn the difference between a fact and an opinion you might get rid of inaness. But you need serious help with you issues with hatred.

[Epitome22]

Originally posted by: Drbio
Mavdookie telling LRB that he is ignoring facts has to be one of the most sadly ironic posts in d-m.com history. [img]i/expressions/anim_roller.gif[/img]

But not nearly as humerous as you ribbing someone else about 'facts' Please Drbio, things like debate, discussion, issues and knowledge and intelligence aren't exactly your strong points when it comes to political discussion. Now you be a good boy and come up with some more of those clever, libelous takes on names for the democrats. Those things are just side splitters.

[Drbio]

Originally posted by: Epitome22

But not nearly as humerous as you ribbing someone else about 'facts' Please Drbio, things like debate, discussion, issues and knowledge and intelligence aren't exactly your strong points when it comes to political discussion. Now you be a good boy and come up with some more of those clever, libelous takes on names for the democrats. Those things are just side splitters.

Dear goodness.....did you actually type that without pissing in your diaper? I'll debate you on facts for any topic any day and watch you systematically dismantled and left crying sucking on your thumb wondering what the hell just happened.

[Epitome22]

Originally posted by: Drbio

Dear goodness.....did you actually type that without pissing in your diaper? I'll debate you on facts for any topic any day and watch you systematically dismantled and left crying sucking on your thumb wondering what the hell just happened.

Uh huh

[dude1394]

Petty...so I reciprocated.