Tim Hardaway hates gays. - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Windmill360 · 02-15-2007, 12:38 AM

What's new.

Didn't he throw a tv when he was playing for Orlando? That was like the same season we traded him.

Quote:

MIAMI HERALD FILE PHOTO

'I AM HOMOPHOBIC': 'I don't like gay people and I don't like to be around gay people,' Tim Hardaway said.

Retired Miami Heat guard Tim Hardaway, known for his candor, said on a radio show Wednesday that he would not want a gay player on his team, would ask for him to be traded, and went so far as to say: ``You know, I hate gay people, so I let it be known. I don't like gay people and I don't like to be around gay people. I am homophobic. I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States.''

Hardaway was a guest with host/Herald columnist Dan Le Batard on Sports Talk 790 The Ticket, and at the end of the interview, Le Batard asked Hardaway how he would deal with a gay player, in light of last week's disclosure by retired NBA center John Amaechi that he is gay.

''First of all, I wouldn't want him on my team,'' Hardaway replied. ``And second of all, if he was on my team, I would really distance myself from him because, uh, I don't think that is right. I don't think he should be in the locker room while we are in the locker room. But stuff like that is going on and there's a lot of other people I hear that are like that and still in the closet and don't want to come out of the closet, but you know I just leave that alone.''

Asked what he would do if he had a gay teammate, Hardaway said he would ask for the player to be traded or to be bought out of his contract.

''Something has to give,'' he said. ``And I think the majority of players would ask for him to be traded or they would want to be traded. Or buy him out of his contract and just let him go. Something has to give. If you have 12 other ballplayers in your locker room that are upset and can't concentrate and always worried about him in the locker room or on the court it's going to be hard for your teammates to win and accept him as a teammate.''

Hardaway is the first NBA player -- current or former -- to make anti-gay statements since Amaechi's news came out. In fact, most of the players and coaches quoted last week, including Heat center Shaquille O'Neal, were supportive of Amaechi and said they would not be bothered by a gay teammate.

What if the gay player were a great player, Hardaway was asked.

''If he were that great something would still have to give,'' he said. ``People would feel uncomfortable with that. If you're not gay, nobody in that locker room would feel comfortable with that person on your team.''

Amaechi probably will not be surprised when he reads Hardaway's comments. He said in a phone interview Tuesday he believes there is still a lot of homophobia in society and in professional sports locker rooms.

''We are much further behind than I'd like,'' Amaechi said. ``People in America and England [where Amaechi grew up] would like to think racism is over, sexism is over, and homophobia is over, but it's not. My coming out will show that gay people don't all look like Jack from Will and Grace. Some of us are big, athletic men, and that should be OK.''

Amaechi said he had not heard from a single former teammate or NBA player, that he had only heard from former coach Doc Rivers. He challenged straight athletes ''who feel able'' to stand up for gay rights.

''I would like professional male athletes to be active supporters, and that doesn't mean putting a rainbow decal on their car,'' he said. ``It means letting other guys in the locker room know that it's not OK to make gay jokes, that it's hurtful, and that it's not OK to be homophobic.

``But it's hard to get straight guys to step up. When men stood by women during the suffrage movement, they were called progressive and bold. When whites stood by blacks, they were heroes. But a straight guy standing up for a gay guy faces discrimination, and that's a big part of the battle we're fighting.''

Thespiralgoeson · 02-15-2007, 12:50 AM

What a nice guy.

capitalcity · 02-15-2007, 01:11 AM

ESPN just reported the story without reporting that he was previously on the ESPN payroll.

chumdawg · 02-15-2007, 03:21 AM

From everything I've read, Amaechi isn't doing the gays any good by his self-serving, nellie-acting, asking-for-it-and-then-bitching-about-it brand of bullshit.

Maybe there are still some places gays aren't welcome, and maybe that's not so bad a thing.

(If they are all like Amaechi, it's definitely not a bad thing at all.)

Thespiralgoeson · 02-15-2007, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

From everything I've read, Amaechi isn't doing the gays any good by his self-serving, nellie-acting, asking-for-it-and-then-bitching-about-it brand of bullshit.

Maybe there are still some places gays aren't welcome, and maybe that's not so bad a thing.

(If they are all like Amaechi, it's definitely not a bad thing at all.)

Not sure what you're saying, Chum. I guess he does come across as sort of whiny, but that doesn't mean he's not sincere. Or are you saying that he's just doing all of this to sell his book?

HexNBA · 02-15-2007, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

From everything I've read, Amaechi isn't doing the gays any good by his self-serving, nellie-acting, asking-for-it-and-then-bitching-about-it brand of bullshit.

Maybe there are still some places gays aren't welcome, and maybe that's not so bad a thing.

(If they are all like Amaechi, it's definitely not a bad thing at all.)

Just..wow.

Anyway, I'm sure Hardaway will have some bullshit apology soon but these comments are pretty clear cut. Not much recovering to be done from there, but besides cancelled appearances in some cases I doubt it will have much of an effect.

mary · 02-15-2007, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

From everything I've read, Amaechi isn't doing the gays any good by his self-serving, nellie-acting, asking-for-it-and-then-bitching-about-it brand of bullshit.

Maybe there are still some places gays aren't welcome, and maybe that's not so bad a thing.

(If they are all like Amaechi, it's definitely not a bad thing at all.)

Can you give us a sample of everything you've read?

Hardaway is obviously a hate-filled bigot, but I'm sure there are plenty of people that share his opinion.

That aside, I do have to wonder how a gay guy would be accepted in the NBA. If you want to look at homosexuality as being a "transgression", then I think it would depend largely upon who that player is how important he is to the team's success. For example, Quincy Carter wasn't really released because he smoked pot, he was released because he smoked pot and he was a spare.

In sports, you will be tolerated only as much as your production allows you to be. What if Dirk came out of the closet - right now, while in the midst of a historically successful season, would you really think a teammate, even someone like Hardaway, would demand that he be traded? Or use a separate locker room? Or retire? I think its pretty unlikely. What if Shaq came out, or Dwayne Wade, or Kobe, or Steve Nash? These are all players that are vital to their teams success, not to mention their revenue streams.

On the other hand, someone like Brian Scalabrine announced he was gay, I would think it would be much more likely that his teammates, and the organization itself, would reject him.

EricaLubarsky · 02-15-2007, 04:18 AM

How did Amaechi ask for it?

untitled · 02-15-2007, 08:46 AM

Hardaway's comments reminded me of that ESPNews commercial with the sports fans "talking out of their asses". I cannot figure out why people care so much about this, even if you do believe it's a sin. How does another person's bedroom activity affect your ability to play basketball as a team?

nikeball · 02-15-2007, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled

Hardaway's comments reminded me of that ESPNews commercial with the sports fans "talking out of their asses". I cannot figure out why people care so much about this, even if you do believe it's a sin. How does another person's bedroom activity affect your ability to play basketball as a team?

I agree. Just because you are gay does not mean you are attracted to every same-sex member out there. Just like we (straight men) are not attracted to every woman out there..nor do we check them all out. However, in the NBA/team sports there is that close bond, I can see how some people may be a little phobic. I guess it could mess with the chemistry..but playing basketball is playing basketball. Usually you forget everything once you get into the game. I am surprised no one is bringing up gays in the military (in the news). Metaphorically speaking you are "going into battle" in both senses...and it is a taboo to be gay in both settings.

Tim Hardaway's sentiments are I believe very sterotypical and close-minded. I do believe being gay is a sin (but we all sin everyday with other aspects of our lives), but Gays are people too and should deserve to have the same opportunities that we all have.

dude1394 · 02-15-2007, 09:58 AM

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Originally Posted by nikeball

Just like we (straight men) are not attracted to every woman out there..nor do we check them all out.

Speak for yourself.

Usually Lurkin · 02-15-2007, 10:29 AM

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Originally Posted by nikeball

Just because you are gay does not mean you are attracted to every same-sex member out there. Just like we (straight men) are not attracted to every woman out there..nor do we check them all out.

Do you think heterosexual men and women should be ok sharing a lockerroom with straight members of the opposite sex? If some straight dude wanted to change in the women's lockerroom and shower with them, should he be allowed to? Even if he says he's not attracted to the woman-version of Greg Ostertag?

bernardos70 · 02-15-2007, 01:25 PM

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Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Do you think heterosexual men and women should be ok sharing a lockerroom with straight members of the opposite sex? If some straight dude wanted to change in the women's lockerroom and shower with them, should he be allowed to? Even if he says he's not attracted to the woman-version of Greg Ostertag?

A very valid point indeed......

Now, I hear choice and not a choice. I think people who say it is a choice are in fact right. It is a choice, just like it is a choice to be straight. If you are a man who likes men, you can still choose to only have sex with women. Much the same way a straight man can choose to have gay sex, even though he's not gay. A bit far fetched, but who you have sex with is definitely your choice. Who you'd like to have sex with....... another matter entirely.

jthig32 · 02-15-2007, 02:17 PM

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Originally Posted by bernardos70

A very valid point indeed......

Now, I hear choice and not a choice. I think people who say it is a choice are in fact right. It is a choice, just like it is a choice to be straight. If you are a man who likes men, you can still choose to only have sex with women. Much the same way a straight man can choose to have gay sex, even though he's not gay. A bit far fetched, but who you have sex with is definitely your choice. Who you'd like to have sex with....... another matter entirely.

;

nikeball · 02-15-2007, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Do you think heterosexual men and women should be ok sharing a lockerroom with straight members of the opposite sex? If some straight dude wanted to change in the women's lockerroom and shower with them, should he be allowed to? Even if he says he's not attracted to the woman-version of Greg Ostertag?

I think there is more to it than that. Society views unisex restrooms as very weird and out of the norm. (However in "Ally Mcbeal", they had a unisex -- and it promotes more team bonding/trust/closeness -- supposedly a study was done). Remember .. it was less than half a century ago when there were separate restrooms/buses/facilities for whites/blacks. Maybe in 50 years men and women will all share same lockerroom/shower/bathroom (ex. the movie "Starship Troopers" lol). But I don't think that will ever happen, because men and women are too different (and think differently). Most women, to be initmate/aroused by someone are caused more by feelings/emotions/closeness to another...and for most men it is purely physical. Thus the unisex will never work. Besides women and men's bodies are different. Women's restrooms have couches, less dirty, tampon dispenser to suit their needs. Where as we have filth, piss on floors, and stank. Also another reason why the co-ed locker room would not work is the way men view women as objects. In the restroom they will feel like they are being checked out the whole time, not private, and objectified.

Back to the topic of gay men sharing lockerroom with straight men. The way I feel is, if you are comfortable being naked in front of other men, why would it matter if he was gay or straight or not? Wouldn't it just be your own security/insecurity? I wouldn't be comfortable in naked in front of any man. It is just too weird.

jacktruth · 02-15-2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled

Hardaway's comments reminded me of that ESPNews commercial with the sports fans "talking out of their asses". I cannot figure out why people care so much about this, even if you do believe it's a sin. How does another person's bedroom activity affect your ability to play basketball as a team?

I'm not siding with Hardaway on this, but why do we have seperate restrooms for men and women?

untitled · 02-15-2007, 01:22 PM

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Originally Posted by jacktruth

I'm not siding with Hardaway on this, but why do we have seperate restrooms for men and women?

Because men stand and women sit?

I lived with a gay guy for 3 years in college (and shared a bathroom with him - Oh, the horror of it all!). I never once got the feeling that he was attracted to me.

Even if a teammate was attracted to another player, as long as they both know that nothing will ever come of it, who cares? They're human beings, give them some credit for having a little bit of self-control.

Usually Lurkin · 02-15-2007, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled

Because men stand and women sit?

I lived with a gay guy for 3 years in college (and shared a bathroom with him - Oh, the horror of it all!). I never once got the feeling that he was attracted to me.

Even if a teammate was attracted to another player, as long as they both know that nothing will ever come of it, who cares? They're human beings, give them some credit for having a little bit of self-control.

so you're allright with some dude using the womens lockerroom?

jacktruth · 02-15-2007, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled

Because men stand and women sit?

I lived with a gay guy for 3 years in college (and shared a bathroom with him - Oh, the horror of it all!). I never once got the feeling that he was attracted to me.

Even if a teammate was attracted to another player, as long as they both know that nothing will ever come of it, who cares? They're human beings, give them some credit for having a little bit of self-control.

Seriously? Do you think that is the only reason?

Here's some reality. Men think about sex all of the time. If men and women shared lockerooms and bathrooms, either men would be in there all of the time, or women would wear depends. Especially lockerrooms.

So, gay men want to say that they are just like other men. Are they or not? Do they think about the same amount as most men? If so, there should be a cover charge to get into the men's lockerroom. I know plenty of men that would pay plenty to undress and shower with the ladies.

It's not at all homophobic to think in those terms.

WurzburgBorn · 02-15-2007, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacktruth

Seriously? Do you think that is the only reason?

Here's some reality. Men think about sex all of the time. If men and women shared lockerooms and bathrooms, either men would be in there all of the time, or women would wear depends. Especially lockerrooms.

So, gay men want to say that they are just like other men. Are they or not? Do they think about the same amount as most men? If so, there should be a cover charge to get into the men's lockerroom. I know plenty of men that would pay plenty to undress and shower with the ladies.

It's not at all homophobic to think in those terms.

Many straight men could use a co-ed bathroom and control their urge to look over into the next stall. Gay men do the same thing in same-sex bathrooms every day.

jthig32 · 02-15-2007, 09:42 AM

How unfortunate.

And I disagree Hex, I think Hardaway has a hard time recovering from this in any way. The NBA already cut him off from his appearances surrounding the All Star game.

dude1394 · 02-15-2007, 09:54 AM

Oh he's toast. You can be a deviant and you can be celebrated, but say that you don't agree that being a deviant is okay and you get roasted.

jthig32 · 02-15-2007, 09:58 AM

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Originally Posted by dude1394

Oh he's toast. You can be a deviant and you can be celebrated, but say that you don't agree that being a deviant is okay and you get roasted.

;

dude1394 · 02-15-2007, 10:15 AM

Well I'm not kidding that it's a deviant lifestyle and I don't condone it. I don't hate someone for having that lifestyle but I'm not going to accept it as anything other than deviant. And it has been celebrated and promoted in our society likes it's the latest greatest thing which I resent.

As far as hate, I assume that's just his way of saying he's not comfortable around them. And certainly not comfortable in the locker room around them.

jthig32 · 02-15-2007, 10:26 AM

;

sike · 02-15-2007, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

How unfortunate.

And I disagree Hex, I think Hardaway has a hard time recovering from this in any way. The NBA already cut him off from his appearances surrounding the All Star game.

he is done.

its only ok to hate on Conservative Christians and Mormons...

Rhylan · 02-15-2007, 04:53 PM

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Originally Posted by sike

he is done.

its only ok to hate on Conservative Christians and Mormons...

Sad, but quite true.

Doesn't take away from how idiotic Hardaway is, of course. He could've come out and said so many things about not agreeing with, or being uncomfortable with, gay men. If that's his opinion, fine. But, "I hate them?" Gimme a break.

Flacolaco · 02-15-2007, 10:05 AM

Wow. that certainly was very....honest

wow.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-15-2007, 10:57 AM

Tim Hardaway is a dumbass, and he sucked on our team. What a has-been does for fun these days.

Usually Lurkin · 02-15-2007, 12:01 PM

I don't know, alexamenos. I think it just as likely that noone will make any comment at all for fear of getting pasted across the top of the drudgereport.

alexamenos · 02-15-2007, 12:18 PM

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Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I don't know, alexamenos. I think it just as likely that noone will make any comment at all for fear of getting pasted across the top of the drudgereport.

...not today certainly, but down the line I think Timmy's provided cover for all the, ummm...., player-haters....

lessay Timmy didn't say what Timmy said......if Elton Brand (eg) says "I'd really rather not have a homosexual on our team. I think it would be an unnecessary distraction and an impediment to our play as a team."... then a bunch of people jump all over elton saying that he's a queer bashing homophobe....and it's easier to say that Elton is a homo-hater if the standard for homo-hatin' is or becomes "i don't want to shower with a homo."

but thanks to timmy, the standard for homo-hatin' is "I hate Gay people". hence, elton can say.....

"I ain't saying that I hate gay people like Tim Hardaway. I'm just saying that having a homo on our team would be an impediment to our play...."

now, we know that tim hardaway is gay-bashing homo-hater, and we know that Elton ain't saying what Timmy's saying, ergo logically Elton ain't gay hatin'.

time will tell, i suppose.

Mavdog · 02-15-2007, 12:10 PM

what if tim hardaway said "I hate chinese people".

people who are gay do not make a choice to be gay. they simply are, just like tim didn't make a choice on being black.

it is ironic of course that tim expresses such disdain and prejudice against a group of people that he doesn't know as individuals.

yes tim hardaway, you have a lot in common with people such as david duke.

jthig32 · 02-15-2007, 12:20 PM

;

Mavdog · 02-15-2007, 03:00 PM

the data and research do not say "opinion" they say "fact"

it is a FACT that homosexual behavior exists in all animal species.

it is a FACT that almost every species (this of course excludes mankind) does not have the capability to "choose" their sexual orientation.

ask yourself, with all of the hatred directed towards homosexuals, and hardaway is merely the latest to verbalize this deep seated prejudice, why would anyone "choose" to be homosexual?

sure, there are some who want to experiment with alternative lifestyles, and to experiment with homosexual sex. these are however the minority, and these are typically the people who do not proclaim themselves to be homosexual but rather bisexual. in other words, they just want to be kinky.

we don't wake up one morning and say "i think I will be heterosexual...". we are what we are, and so too are homosexuals.

Usually Lurkin · 02-15-2007, 03:11 PM

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Originally Posted by Mavdog

the data and research do not say "opinion" they say "fact"

it is a FACT that homosexual behavior exists in all animal species.
...

are you saying we don't get to choose whether we act on our animal urges?
You'll probably find quite a few scientists who would argue that Tim Hardaway doesn't have a choice in how strongly he holds his in group/out group biases. That doesn't make the scientists right, and it doesn't make Tim's views right.

dude1394 · 02-15-2007, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavdog

what if tim hardaway said "I hate chinese people".

people who are gay do not make a choice to be gay. they simply are, just like tim didn't make a choice on being black.

that is your "opinion". Being chinese is not a "choice"

chumdawg · 02-15-2007, 12:14 PM

It's getting to the point where it takes less courage to choose a gay lifestyle than it does to speak out against it.

Dirkadirkastan · 02-15-2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

It's getting to the point where it takes less courage to choose a gay lifestyle than it does to speak out against it.

Exactly. "Coming out of the closet" these days is overrated.

WurzburgBorn · 02-15-2007, 04:19 PM

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Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Exactly. "Coming out of the closet" these days is overrated.

I'm not sure what you mean by overrated, but if you're talking about a test of what sells on the market, I have to disagree. I think that plenty of people will buy John's new book, even if I'm not one of them. I'd go as far as to say many Americans think it's a pretty interesting story.
It's news. Perhaps ideally it shouldn't be a big deal at all, but I think there are a lot of reasons why it's a big story and because the media are a bunch of PC liberals isn't high on the list.

Thespiralgoeson · 02-15-2007, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

It's getting to the point where it takes less courage to choose a gay lifestyle than it does to speak out against it.

You say that like it's a bad thing. That's exactly the way it should be.

Secondly, I will say this one time and one time only. Homosexuality is not a "lifestyle choice."

And don't you or anyone else dare tell me it is. Unless you're speaking from experience, what the fuck do you know about it? Did you choose to be heterosexual, Chum?