11-09-2008, 12:40 PM
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#1
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Banned
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,885
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Championship and Playoff series failures
I have a question to ask.
Is there a team out there with more players that have been a part of Championship or Playoff series collapse failures than the Mavs?
1. Recent Championship Extreme Failures: (I mean collapses for the most part)
Dirk, Howard, Jet, Stack, and Damp -2006 (Up 2-0 and lost to the Heat)
George -2004 (lost to the Pistons while having Kobe, Shaq, Malone and Payton)
Kidd - (Went to Finals back2back and could not win a title)
2. Recent Playoff Collapse Failure:
Dirk, Howard, Jet, Stack, Damp, Diop, George -2007 (67 win team loses in 1st round)
3. Current 2008-2009 Mavs Top Players:
Dirk, Howard, Jet, Stack, Diop, Damp, George, Kidd
4. Current Mavs Coach Rick Carlise:
Season Regular Season Record Post Season Record
2001-02 50-32 4-6
2002-03 50-32 8-9
2003-04 61-21 10-6
2004-05 44-38 6-7
2005-06 41-41 2-4
2006-07 35-47 Did not make playoffs
2007-08 ? Did not make playoffs
5. We now couple players with recent playoff collapses with a coach with recent playoff collapes and expect different results?
6. According to these numbers all these players and coaches have gotten worse and worse after recent playoff collapses and failures and expect different results?
7. To just finish off the expectations we become the 2nd oldest team in the NBA?
8. Does anyone else see a problem here? Just saying......
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11-09-2008, 12:46 PM
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#2
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,181
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We have to make the playoffs for any of this to matter.
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11-09-2008, 01:48 PM
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#3
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 86
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You forgot our Golden Ticket.. Devean George, doesn't he have a ring?
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11-09-2008, 06:10 PM
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#4
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Member
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Posts: 624
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I believe he has 3, does he not?
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11-09-2008, 06:33 PM
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#5
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 8,839
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This is why I thought this team should've been mixed up from the get go. I don't want to use the term "blow up" because I didn't think it needed to be that drastic. But the core of players had to change. They're losers. Eventually when you keep going through a collapse every year it starts get in your head and you start to think maybe you are a loser. I just think this team needed to get rid of its core players and surround Dirk with players who weren't here through the meltdowns. I didn't want to trade Harris but I thought bringing in Kidd would be a positive because he wasn't here through the failures and he wants a ring just as bad as the next guy. Seems like its starting to rub off on him too.
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11-09-2008, 09:01 PM
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#6
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Banned
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Posts: 2,885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest
This is why I thought this team should've been mixed up from the get go. I don't want to use the term "blow up" because I didn't think it needed to be that drastic. But the core of players had to change. They're losers. Eventually when you keep going through a collapse every year it starts get in your head and you start to think maybe you are a loser. I just think this team needed to get rid of its core players and surround Dirk with players who weren't here through the meltdowns. I didn't want to trade Harris but I thought bringing in Kidd would be a positive because he wasn't here through the failures and he wants a ring just as bad as the next guy. Seems like its starting to rub off on him too.
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I agree. As I started to really look at the mental make-up of the team, I saw this problem. Then when you factor in Carlisle he is pretty much in the same mental state. This is why players like Horry, Cassel, Posey are such great additions to teams. They know how to win and bring that mental edge that you need in the playoffs. We really need those role type players who are used to winning in the playoffs.
I think we are stuck in mental fatigue and it does not take much for the team to get in a funk. I will say that Kidd is the best thing for the mental state of this team. Is it enough? I dont think so, but I am hoping he can will this team to get over the mental part of the game. Could Carlisle help? I just dont know, but hope so.
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11-12-2008, 10:08 AM
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#7
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silk Smoov
I agree. As I started to really look at the mental make-up of the team, I saw this problem. Then when you factor in Carlisle he is pretty much in the same mental state. This is why players like Horry, Cassel, Posey are such great additions to teams. They know how to win and bring that mental edge that you need in the playoffs. We really need those role type players who are used to winning in the playoffs.
I think we are stuck in mental fatigue and it does not take much for the team to get in a funk. I will say that Kidd is the best thing for the mental state of this team. Is it enough? I dont think so, but I am hoping he can will this team to get over the mental part of the game. Could Carlisle help? I just dont know, but hope so.
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Once again the mental part of the game was the downfall of this team. Team full of mental midgets and lack of confidence is what we see in the 4th quarter. Carlisle has to be that rock for the Mavs until we get it. Carlisle has a problem in the last 4 minutes of the 3rd quarter and the early part of the 4th quarter. He needs to learn to close out quarters, and part of that falls on him by him having the right players out there to execute his plays. IMO
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11-09-2008, 10:09 PM
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#8
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Guru
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Just looking at the Carlisle numbers you posted...that certainly doesn't look like epic fail to me. In fact, on the whole it looks pretty darn solid as far as playoff performances go.
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11-09-2008, 10:44 PM
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#9
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
Just looking at the Carlisle numbers you posted...that certainly doesn't look like epic fail to me. In fact, on the whole it looks pretty darn solid as far as playoff performances go.
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Truth. It's actually quite impressive for a coach to have a long term record around .500 in the playoffs.
Last edited by Dirkadirkastan; 11-09-2008 at 10:44 PM.
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11-09-2008, 10:50 PM
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#10
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Moderator
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
Just looking at the Carlisle numbers you posted...that certainly doesn't look like epic fail to me. In fact, on the whole it looks pretty darn solid as far as playoff performances go.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan
Truth. It's actually quite impressive for a coach to have a long term record around .500 in the playoffs.
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Not to mention that he didn't coach in 07-08, hence the reason he didn't make the playoffs...
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Last edited by Underdog; 11-09-2008 at 10:59 PM.
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11-09-2008, 11:14 PM
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#11
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
Just looking at the Carlisle numbers you posted...that certainly doesn't look like epic fail to me. In fact, on the whole it looks pretty darn solid as far as playoff performances go.
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Chum,
Remember that year with the Pistons to where his team was the favorite to win the nba title but lost. Playoff record is not that bad, but he is still under .500 in the playoffs. So, I dont call that a good playoff record. Avery had a very good playoff record until the last two years, then his playoff recordgot under .500
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11-09-2008, 11:30 PM
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#12
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Guru
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Looking at win percentage over all playoff games is probably less fruitful than looking at win percentages across series. Here's what I see. Regular season wins first, playoff record next:
50 - 1-1
50 - 2-1
61 - 2-1
44 - 1-1
41 - 0-1
That's 6-5 in series, if you are counting, which is above .500. What does it say, though? His first 50-win team got out of the first round, at least. How good was the team it lost to in the second round? Remember that it usually becomes much, much harder to win in the next round. His second 50-win team made the conference finals. That's a strong accomplishment. His 61-win team made the conference finals. They did not disappoint. His 44-win team won in the first round, which is a nice accomplishment. His 41-win team lost in the first round, as it probably should have.
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11-09-2008, 11:59 PM
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#13
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
Looking at win percentage over all playoff games is probably less fruitful than looking at win percentages across series. Here's what I see. Regular season wins first, playoff record next:
50 - 1-1
50 - 2-1
61 - 2-1
44 - 1-1
41 - 0-1
That's 6-5 in series, if you are counting, which is above .500. What does it say, though? His first 50-win team got out of the first round, at least. How good was the team it lost to in the second round? Remember that it usually becomes much, much harder to win in the next round. His second 50-win team made the conference finals. That's a strong accomplishment. His 61-win team made the conference finals. They did not disappoint. His 44-win team won in the first round, which is a nice accomplishment. His 41-win team lost in the first round, as it probably should have.
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Ok, then that would mean Avery is a better playoff coach than his record says? Also, then dont that mean that when Carlisle loses in the playoffs, he loses pretty bad? Dont forget his Pacers had the best record in the NBA that year and did not make it to the NBA finals losing 2-4 with the homecourt against the Pistons. Remember that was the same Pistons team he had just left as well. Come on Chum, he was also in the East
Had to go back to see Avery record compared to Carlisle:
Avery:
Year Season Record Playoff Record
04-05 16-2 1-1
05-06 60-22 3-1 NBA Finals
06-07 67-15 0-1
07-06 51-31 0-1
Regular season: 194- 70
Playoff Record: 4-4
So, if we all agree that Avery did not do a good job from the Western Conference, then I would say Carlisle did much worst in that regard.
Last edited by Silk Smoov; 11-10-2008 at 12:39 AM.
Reason: Had to go back to see what Avery record was.
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11-10-2008, 12:39 AM
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#14
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Guru
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Looking at the actual series, I would agree that Carlisle's teams didn't overperform in the playoffs. But I don't find any epic fails, either. He's a young coach, and I don't think that you can say much about his body of work up to now that would necessarily have a bearing on what he will do going forward.
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11-10-2008, 12:44 AM
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#15
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
Looking at the actual series, I would agree that Carlisle's teams didn't overperform in the playoffs. But I don't find any epic fails, either. He's a young coach, and I don't think that you can say much about his body of work up to now that would necessarily have a bearing on what he will do going forward.
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I agree, but I am just saying his playoff performance is not up to par with a team like the Mavs who is needing a coach with winning playoff experience to help them mentally. When I look at Carlise playoff record and success, it reminds me of Avery, when early success in the playoffs melted down to doing worse and worse each year afterwards.
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11-10-2008, 12:55 AM
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#16
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silk Smoov
I agree, but I am just saying his playoff performance is not up to par with a team like the Mavs who is needing a coach with winning playoff experience to help them mentally.
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Well, let's be real here. Besides bringing Nellie back, who could they have hired? Show me your list of available coaches with winning playoff experience who could help them mentally.
Quote:
When I look at Carlise playoff record and success, it reminds me of Avery, when early success in the playoffs melted down to doing worse and worse each year afterwards.
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Avery didn't just melt down. Avery melted and then evaporated in record time. He disappeared like David Blayne.
Trust me, that particular feat is not going to be matched any time soon. Any parallels you would draw would have no basis whatsoever.
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11-10-2008, 12:56 AM
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#17
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Moderator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
He disappeared like David Blayne.
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This comparison is quite apt on multiple levels, as David Blaine is also a huge douchebag.
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"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
Last edited by LonghornDub; 11-10-2008 at 12:57 AM.
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11-10-2008, 05:22 AM
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#18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
Avery didn't just melt down. Avery melted and then evaporated in record time. He disappeared like David Blayne.
Trust me, that particular feat is not going to be matched any time soon. Any parallels you would draw would have no basis whatsoever.
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No kidding. The Mavs would've won back to back championships in 06 and 07 if they had a coach who didn't have his head up his ass IMO.
When you look back on it, it really is baffling that he got hired in the first place. I mean, back then, wasn't the mantra "Anything short of a championship is a failure" or something like that? So you have a team that is absolutely bound and determined to win a championship, and you hire a guy with absolutely no coaching experience whatsoever? A guy less than a year removed from his career as a player? I mean, I know Phil Jackson and Greg Popovich weren't available, but seriously, if Nellie steps down at least use Del Harris as the interim coach or something.
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11-10-2008, 09:30 AM
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#19
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Diamond Member
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson
No kidding. The Mavs would've won back to back championships in 06 and 07 if they had a coach who didn't have his head up his ass IMO.
When you look back on it, it really is baffling that he got hired in the first place. I mean, back then, wasn't the mantra "Anything short of a championship is a failure" or something like that? So you have a team that is absolutely bound and determined to win a championship, and you hire a guy with absolutely no coaching experience whatsoever? A guy less than a year removed from his career as a player? I mean, I know Phil Jackson and Greg Popovich weren't available, but seriously, if Nellie steps down at least use Del Harris as the interim coach or something.
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good grief. you are off your rocker.
Just because the team wants to win really, really, really bad means that any coach could get them to the finals? That's just nuts. Didn't Avery bring that motto in the first place? We barely sniffed a championship before he was here, and things aren't looking so great now that he's gone. Avery was the right coach at the right time that finals year. Something fell apart during the finals (and the refs had more to do with it than Avery), and that something is still fallen apart. It could very easily be Josh Howard or Jason Terry.
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11-10-2008, 09:25 AM
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#20
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
Well, let's be real here. Besides bringing Nellie back, who could they have hired? Show me your list of available coaches with winning playoff experience who could help them mentally.
Avery didn't just melt down. Avery melted and then evaporated in record time. He disappeared like David Blayne.
Trust me, that particular feat is not going to be matched any time soon. Any parallels you would draw would have no basis whatsoever.
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I would say Larry Brown would be a good fit mentally for the Mavs. Sad, but that is about as far as I could go with the available coaches at the time. I know the Mavs had a short list to go by, but I am just pointing out that Carlisle and the Mavs past seems alot alike to me. I would not really call Carlisle playoff career a total failure, but I just see some similar failures after having early success.
Rick: Given a team w/ the Pacers that was already ready to win a title
Avery: Given a team w/ the Mavs that was already ready to win a title
Rick: NBA coach of the year 2002 (Very early in his career)
Avery: NBA coach of the year 2006? (Very early in his career)
Rick: Next year after winning COY, had the NBA best regular season record
Avery: Next year after winning COY, had the NBA best regular season record
Rick: His team with the best record was picked to win the NBA title, lost in EC Finals
Avery: His team with the best record was picked to win the NBA title, lost in 1st round
(Not saying the same failures, but similar in nature)
Rick: Set franchise record for regular season wins
Avery: Set franchise record for regular season wins
Rick: After playoff loss w/ team w/ best record, his teams have not done too well.
Avery: After playoff loss w/ team w/ best record, his teams have not done too well.
Rick: Pretty decent regular season record, and losing playoff record was out of a job.
Avery: Pretty decent regular season record, and losing playoff record was out of a job.
Rick: Young coach with alot of potential
Avery: Young coach with alof of potential
Last edited by Silk Smoov; 11-10-2008 at 09:32 AM.
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11-10-2008, 09:45 AM
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#21
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Lazy Moderator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silk Smoov
Rick: Given a team w/ the Pacers that was already ready to win a title
Avery: Given a team w/ the Mavs that was already ready to win a title
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The Pacers were hardly a team "ready to win a title". They had won 41, 42 and 48 games the previous three seasons. Rick pushed them to 61 wins and the top seed. Also, the notion that they were the favorites to win the title is incorrect. The Lakers were still the heavy favorites to win the title, and the Pistons were largely considered the favorites in the East because of what they did after the Rasheed Wallace trade.
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11-10-2008, 05:16 AM
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#22
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silk Smoov
I agree, but I am just saying his playoff performance is not up to par with a team like the Mavs who is needing a coach with winning playoff experience to help them mentally. When I look at Carlise playoff record and success, it reminds me of Avery, when early success in the playoffs melted down to doing worse and worse each year afterwards.
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You couldn't be more wrong about Carlisle. He's never had any meltdowns. The only series he lost that you could argue he should've won was in 03 when his Pistons lost to the Nets.
The next year, when his Pacers lost to the Pistons, they lost to the better team. The Pacers did have the best record that year, yes, but remember that Detroit acquired Rasheed right before the deadline. That was HUGE. If Detroit had Rasheed from the season opener, they might've had the best record. I mean, c'mon, Chauncey Billups against Jamaal Tinsley? Tayshaun Prince against a 40-year-old Reggie Miller? Detroit was the better team, hands down. Didn't that Detroit team also go on to win the championship 4 games to 1 against the heavily favored Lakers? I believe they did.
And the only reason the Pacers did "worse and worse each year" after that was because of the brawl. Remember the beginning of the 05 season? The Pacers were favored to win the East. Then Artest gets suspended for the rest of the season, with Stephen Jackson and JO missing significant time too. The Pacers never recovered from that because JO could never stay healthy, not to mention Jackson's well-documented off-court problems.
Carlisle's coaching in Indiana was outstanding IMO. After the brawl, the Pacers were expected to have one of the worst records in the league, and they still managed to make the playoffs that year and get out of the first round. Indiana's downfall was anything but Carlisle's fault.
Last edited by Thespiralgoeson; 11-10-2008 at 05:22 AM.
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11-10-2008, 09:28 AM
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#23
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson
You couldn't be more wrong about Carlisle. He's never had any meltdowns. The only series he lost that you could argue he should've won was in 03 when his Pistons lost to the Nets.
The next year, when his Pacers lost to the Pistons, they lost to the better team. The Pacers did have the best record that year, yes, but remember that Detroit acquired Rasheed right before the deadline. That was HUGE. If Detroit had Rasheed from the season opener, they might've had the best record. I mean, c'mon, Chauncey Billups against Jamaal Tinsley? Tayshaun Prince against a 40-year-old Reggie Miller? Detroit was the better team, hands down. Didn't that Detroit team also go on to win the championship 4 games to 1 against the heavily favored Lakers? I believe they did.
And the only reason the Pacers did "worse and worse each year" after that was because of the brawl. Remember the beginning of the 05 season? The Pacers were favored to win the East. Then Artest gets suspended for the rest of the season, with Stephen Jackson and JO missing significant time too. The Pacers never recovered from that because JO could never stay healthy, not to mention Jackson's well-documented off-court problems.
Carlisle's coaching in Indiana was outstanding IMO. After the brawl, the Pacers were expected to have one of the worst records in the league, and they still managed to make the playoffs that year and get out of the first round. Indiana's downfall was anything but Carlisle's fault.
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Lets say that you are completely right on this. Then tell me why they fired him, and why he sat out for an entire season afterwards while no GM took a chance on this young great coach?
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11-10-2008, 09:22 PM
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#24
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silk Smoov
Lets say that you are completely right on this. Then tell me why they fired him, and why he sat out for an entire season afterwards while no GM took a chance on this young great coach?
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I honestly don't know exactly why they fired him. I figure they were in rebuilding mode and just wanted a fresh perspective.
Why he sat for a season? Because the Mavs were f**king stupid enough to waste another year on Avery, that's why.
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11-10-2008, 08:30 AM
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#25
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Mentality is overrated. We saw mental midget KG win a title just now (all that yellin and screamin and beatin his chest is a facade!)... It's about talent. We've many times complained about the lack of a low post presence / shooting guard on the Mavs. THOSE are the issues... not the collective mentality of this team.
Every team has a few mental midgets anyway, I wouldn't call the Mavs a collection of mental losers.
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11-11-2008, 01:07 AM
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#26
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Guru
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No, the problems are not deeper than Avery. Avery has his fingerprints all over this team. Carlisle is busy trying to change the diaper.
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11-11-2008, 01:47 AM
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#27
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Moderator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
No, the problems are not deeper than Avery. Avery has his fingerprints all over this team. Carlisle is busy trying to change the diaper.
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'Ya gahwt to pahss the bahsketbahwl!
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"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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11-11-2008, 01:54 AM
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#28
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
'Ya gahwt to pahss the bahsketbahwl!
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"We brought him here to close out see-uh-rees." But not to close out a game against the Spurs in the last thirty seconds.
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11-11-2008, 02:27 AM
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#29
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Moderator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
"We brought him here to close out see-uh-rees." But not to close out a game against the Spurs in the last thirty seconds.
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If only Avery had all-star Devin Harris instead of crappy Jason Kidd, he could have easily coached us to victory in those final 30 seconds. After all--Devin was like his son. Didn't ya know?
__________________
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"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
Last edited by LonghornDub; 11-11-2008 at 02:28 AM.
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11-11-2008, 08:00 AM
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#30
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Diamond Member
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Posts: 8,195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
No, the problems are not deeper than Avery. Avery has his fingerprints all over this team. Carlisle is busy trying to change the diaper.
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That's a fair possibility, though I'm still not convinced it's not Josh and Jet. It's also true, though, that Avery was part of the solution for a finals run, as were Josh and Jet. All three of those people were doing great as major components of a team that worked very well, and all three were doing terribly as major components of a team that worked progressively more crappily. Avery's gone, and with Josh and Jet still on board, the team has so far not improved. I'm one to chalk it up to learning, and am looking forward to this team performing much better as the season goes on - but that's not objective.
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11-12-2008, 03:31 PM
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#31
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
No, the problems are not deeper than Avery. Avery has his fingerprints all over this team. Carlisle is busy trying to change the diaper.
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hey, at least the Mavericks aren't like the Knicks, so carlisle should be happy, hahaha.
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11-11-2008, 03:09 AM
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#32
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Diamond Member
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Avery's actually looking pretty good at this point. We're worse in all three phases of the game, our pace hasn't increased much, we still can't close out games and just two weeks into the season Dirk is already calling out his teammates for lack of effort. Also Kidd's numbers aren't any better than they were under Avery despite the motion offense and the increased emphasis on running.
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11-11-2008, 03:53 AM
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#33
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Moderator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirno2000
Avery's actually looking pretty good at this point. We're worse in all three phases of the game, our pace hasn't increased much, we still can't close out games and just two weeks into the season Dirk is already calling out his teammates for lack of effort. Also Kidd's numbers aren't any better than they were under Avery despite the motion offense and the increased emphasis on running.
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Give then time. Remember what happened to the Rockets last year? They had basically the exact same team as the year before, but started off the season something like 5-7 under their new coach. Then they hovered around .500 for the first 25 or so games. Suddenly, 22 game winning streak.
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John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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11-12-2008, 10:49 AM
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#34
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,543
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Diop and Bass closing the 3rd and into the 4th has proven to be such a bad combo. Bass doesn't even look like himself, or like last year.
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11-12-2008, 11:05 AM
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#35
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC0007
Bass doesn't even look like himself, or like last year.
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We should have traded him in the offseason when his value was sky-high (especially since he doesn't really have a position on this team...)
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These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 11-12-2008 at 11:06 AM.
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11-12-2008, 11:18 AM
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#36
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
Posts: 13,543
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He looks more lost now than Green ever has. It's as if he doesn't trust his handles to even blow past his man to the bucket to get to the foul line like he did last year.
My fear is were gonna be trying to move guys later this year if it doesn't work out and were not gonna get what we should for them because were not clicking and no one looks in top form.
Carlisle on the "1310 the ticket" right now
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12-19-2008, 11:02 PM
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#37
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Banned
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silk Smoov
I have a question to ask.
Is there a team out there with more players that have been a part of Championship or Playoff series collapse failures than the Mavs?
1. Recent Championship Extreme Failures: (I mean collapses for the most part)
Dirk, Howard, Jet, Stack, and Damp -2006 (Up 2-0 and lost to the Heat)
George -2004 (lost to the Pistons while having Kobe, Shaq, Malone and Payton)
Kidd - (Went to Finals back2back and could not win a title)
2. Recent Playoff Collapse Failure:
Dirk, Howard, Jet, Stack, Damp, Diop, George -2007 (67 win team loses in 1st round)
3. Current 2008-2009 Mavs Top Players:
Dirk, Howard, Jet, Stack, Diop, Damp, George, Kidd
4. Current Mavs Coach Rick Carlise:
Season Regular Season Record Post Season Record
2001-02 50-32 4-6
2002-03 50-32 8-9
2003-04 61-21 10-6
2004-05 44-38 6-7
2005-06 41-41 2-4
2006-07 35-47 Did not make playoffs
2007-08 ? Did not make playoffs
5. We now couple players with recent playoff collapses with a coach with recent playoff collapes and expect different results?
6. According to these numbers all these players and coaches have gotten worse and worse after recent playoff collapses and failures and expect different results?
7. To just finish off the expectations we become the 2nd oldest team in the NBA?
8. Does anyone else see a problem here? Just saying......
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It seems clear again that this team is suffering from the mental state, both from the players and coaches..Who can we turn to?
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12-19-2008, 11:37 PM
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#38
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Guru
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Cowboys Country
Posts: 23,336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silk Smoov
It seems clear again that this team is suffering from the mental state, both from the players and coaches..Who can we turn to?
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You wanna tell me what the hell a December road game has to do with this idea of yours about playoff failures?
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12-19-2008, 11:43 PM
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#39
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Banned
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumdawg
You wanna tell me what the hell a December road game has to do with this idea of yours about playoff failures?
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You tell me? I dont think we all are knee jerking about our Mavs. It just so happens we got the shit beat out of us tonight, and we looked very bad and it is becoming clear we just dont have the pieces to win against good teams. It also seems clear that a collection of mental fatigue players is not the recipe to win in the NBA.
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12-20-2008, 12:53 AM
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#40
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Guru
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Denton, TX
Posts: 10,441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silk Smoov
It seems clear again that this team is suffering from the mental state, both from the players and coaches..Who can we turn to?
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Give me a friggin break. "Mental state" has nothing to do with this. You could have the mentally toughest team in the world, but if the pieces aren't there, you're not going to win. And with the Mavs, the pieces aren't there.
It has nothing to do with "leadership" or "hunger" or any of these other mythical qualities. The X's and O's just aren't there. The Mavs are a poorly built team. Lousy backcourt, lousy frontcourt, lousy bench. The ONLY thing the Mavs have is a nice pair of forwards. That's not enough to win in the NBA.
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