Mavs 116 Queens 95 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

ghazi · 02-21-2009, 11:33 PM

Nothing to see here, just the Mavs taking care of business against a team they're supposed to beat. Quiet night from the starters although they were unnecessary, the bench was big this game.

Sometimes our bench looks talented, sometimes talent starved. likewise can be said about our starters. I suppose this kind of inconsistency is why we're where we're at.

Alas, let's kick some Spurs ass on Tuesday.

Dtownsfinest · 02-21-2009, 11:42 PM

Good to see the bench look good. Singleton and Bass were monsters. Kings however are pathetic. They have no structure at all. I'll give the Mavs credit. I'm thankful they didn't struggle to beat a horrible Kings team. I thought the game would be close with the Mavs pulling it out. San Antonio should be a good one.

I think the most disturbing thing I saw tonight was the fact Josh is one of the best 1st quarter scorers in the league in company with his draftmates Lebron and Dwayne Wade yet he's pathetic in the 4th quarter. It did sort of make me think maybe we give this guy too much of a hard time. He's not a 4th quarter player but shouldn't he get credit for killing the competition the 1st 3 quarters?

Usually Lurkin · 02-22-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

It did sort of make me think maybe we give this guy too much of a hard time. He's not a 4th quarter player but shouldn't he get credit for killing the competition the 1st 3 quarters?

Sure, give him 12 min worth of credit for that, but if that's all the credit he gets, he should be traded. Basketball is a game of momentum and runs, and if your presence helps the momentum shift to the other team throughout the game, and if your presence helps the other team take all the runs of the second half - you suck!

I'd like to see a list of the players with the biggest 1st/4th quarter production differentials.

G-Man · 02-22-2009, 11:18 AM

[quote=Dtownsfinest;968347.

I think the most disturbing thing I saw tonight was the fact Josh is one of the best 1st quarter scorers in the league in company with his draftmates Lebron and Dwayne Wade yet he's pathetic in the 4th quarter. It did sort of make me think maybe we give this guy too much of a hard time. He's not a 4th quarter player but shouldn't he get credit for killing the competition the 1st 3 quarters?[/quote]

Josh has not been a 4th quarter player because the coaches havent asked him to be one. For 4 years, the 4th has been time for the Dirk/Terry 2 man game. It got them to the finals, and it won 67 games the next year. Then, in the playoffs, teams were able to defend it, and the Mavs had no back up plan. I blame the coaching as much as I blame Howard.

Now that Kidd is calling the plays, I see him trying to keep Howard involved in the 2nd half. And I see Josh responding. I also see Kidd calling Damp's number to get him going early. We've had 2 straight games where Dirk didn't score much at all. I say that's great. I want opponents to be worried about Bass and Josh as much as they worry about Jet and Dirk. Kidd and 4 scorers can be dangerous. 3 guys standing around watching Jet and Dirk is not good enough.

Our best hope for now is Coach Kidd. He can make Josh into a 4th quarter weapon. If teams have to defend him, the Jet-Dirk 2 man game has more space to operate. If they don't defend him, get him the damn ball and send himto the hoop. I think Josh wants to do it. I think he mopes, because no one asks him to.

dude1394 · 02-22-2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Man

Josh has not been a 4th quarter player because the coaches havent asked him to be one. For 4 years, the 4th has been time for the Dirk/Terry 2 man game. It got them to the finals, and it won 67 games the next year. Then, in the playoffs, teams were able to defend it, and the Mavs had no back up plan. I blame the coaching as much as I blame Howard.

Now that Kidd is calling the plays, I see him trying to keep Howard involved in the 2nd half. And I see Josh responding. I also see Kidd calling Damp's number to get him going early. We've had 2 straight games where Dirk didn't score much at all. I say that's great. I want opponents to be worried about Bass and Josh as much as they worry about Jet and Dirk. Kidd and 4 scorers can be dangerous. 3 guys standing around watching Jet and Dirk is not good enough.

Our best hope for now is Coach Kidd. He can make Josh into a 4th quarter weapon. If teams have to defend him, the Jet-Dirk 2 man game has more space to operate. If they don't defend him, get him the damn ball and send himto the hoop. I think Josh wants to do it. I think he mopes, because no one asks him to.

During the chalk talk I asked Donnie Nelson this very question. First he sort of said..."who would you rather have shooting, dirk or jet"? When I pressed him that we desperately needed another scorer in the fourth and if he expects josh to be our slashing/get fta's guy...then he just wasn't cutting it.

Then Donnie said that Josh was basically unpredictable especially in the fourth. That we might call a post-up play for him..but he'll instead shoot a step-back 18footer. So basically he can't be trusted to do what he's supposed to do...it messes up the rest of the offense because no one knows what he'll do.

purplefrog · 02-22-2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Then Donnie said that Josh was basically unpredictable especially in the fourth. That we might call a post-up play for him..but he'll instead shoot a step-back 18footer. So basically he can't be trusted to do what he's supposed to do...it messes up the rest of the offense because no one knows what he'll do.

That pretty much describes our beloved Josh.

StackAttack · 02-21-2009, 11:43 PM

Kidd had a great floor game, and if Wright can keep producing like he has been on both ends of the floor, we're going to be dangerous. Bass has put together a few nice games and JJ's more than formidable as our backup PG.

Dirk got some well-needed rest tonight. Hopefully he can get his way out of his mini-slump for the big one on Tuesday.

Bayliss · 02-21-2009, 11:48 PM

The Mavs moved into 6th place tonight. The SA becomes pretty huge. Chance to keep that spot or move up if Houston or Portland slip up.

monty55555 · 02-21-2009, 11:55 PM

Nice win for the Mavs. What made it nice was the play of the bench. Bass and Singleton really played well. Bass has been shooting well these last few games. Singleton had an awesome game. I love his hustle plays. His dunks from Kidd were spectacular. I hope they continue to play well.

BGMaverick9 · 02-21-2009, 11:59 PM

Tuesday should be pretty interesting. Both teams had cakewalk games tonight and both of them didn't really have to force the issue with their starters and they're both off until the game.

Let's see how Bass and JJ react against the Spurs, you definitely have them rolling right now.

Nowitzki4President · 02-22-2009, 12:01 AM

Easy win as expected. I have confidence that we can beat a Manu-less Spurs team.

LonghornDub · 02-22-2009, 01:02 AM

Manu is the most difficult Spurs player for the Mavs to guard, IMO. I expect a close win on Tuesday.

monty55555 · 02-22-2009, 01:07 AM

To any of you who watched the post game show, is it true that Kidd basically gave props to Bass and Singleton and insinuated that Barea is a ballhog? That JJB needs to pass more? I'm just wondering because I read somewhere that Kidd, in his own subtle way, somehow called out Barea?

monty55555 · 02-22-2009, 01:38 AM

Dunk of the Night: (Kidd to Singleton)

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/to...nba/index.html

Steal of the Night: (Wright steals then Kidd to Singleton for the Dunk!)

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/to...nba/index.html

Dirkgreatness · 02-22-2009, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Manu is the most difficult Spurs player for the Mavs to guard, IMO. I expect a close win on Tuesday.

Well good thing hes out for 3 weeks then.

LonghornDub · 02-22-2009, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkgreatness

Well good thing hes out for 3 weeks then.

Now that I think about it, him being out 3 weeks actually means he'll miss two games against the Mavs, huh? Nice.

BGMaverick9 · 02-22-2009, 02:10 AM

Wright is definitely going to be scraped up a bit from tonight, I've never seen him go diving down on the floor as many times as he did tonight...very nice hustle right there.

He's really rounding into a good all-around player, he's had some peaks and valleys but the defense has always been his consistent factor.

grndmstr_c · 02-22-2009, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Wright is definitely going to be scraped up a bit from tonight, I've never seen him go diving down on the floor as many times as he did tonight...very nice hustle right there.

He's really rounding into a good all-around player, he's had some peaks and valleys but the defense has always been his consistent factor.

He was +31 tonight. Best on the team, and by a per-minute metric nearly equaled Kidd's team-best of +1/min. And Antoine didn't even have the jumper going tonight. He's really coming into his own as a valuable member of the team. If you're looking for something to be encouraged about, he's it.

BGMaverick9 · 02-22-2009, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

He was +31 tonight. Best on the team, and by a per-minute metric nearly equaled Kidd's team-best of +1/min. And Antoine didn't even have the jumper going tonight. He's really coming into his own as a valuable member of the team. If you're looking for something to be encouraged about, he's it.

I've always said my ideal SG for this team is a guy who can do at least 2 of 3 things pretty well:
-Attack the rim
-Play good defense
-Shoot the lights out

I'm not sure if he'll ever get that last one but he is well on his way to becoming a respectable shooter. If he can nail down that corner three, he'll be extremely dangerous.

That's why I was a little hesitant on DLord's If All Else Fails deal because I DO really like Wright. I remember him really being a solid contributor when we went on our solid win streak near the end of last season. I saw the potential that was there with him. He's doing the same things now as he did during that stretch but there is more confidence to his game and the players trust him. He openly takes on the challenge of defense and he knows he can bring a lot by attacking the basket.

Let's just hope it's only the beginning for him!

TheMaverick · 02-22-2009, 03:29 AM

Kidd getting 11/11 in 25 minutes is incredible.

RareMilk · 02-22-2009, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMaverick

Kidd getting 11/11 in 25 minutes is incredible.

A couple of em were off the dribble jump shots

Louis · 02-22-2009, 05:12 AM

it doesn't deserved us to brag about, our opponents were queens who are lying on the foundation of the western conference.

Dirkgreatness · 02-22-2009, 06:16 AM

I didn't get to watch the game (because of martigras!) but i thought green was gonna start getting some minutes. Soooooo i just looked at the boxscore and he didnt even play.....

tcat075 · 02-22-2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkgreatness

I didn't get to watch the game (because of martigras!) but i thought green was gonna start getting some minutes. Soooooo i just looked at the boxscore and he didnt even play.....

Green was inactive, so he couldn't play, even when it became a blowout.

Dirkgreatness · 02-22-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

Green was inactive, so he couldn't play, even when it became a blowout.

Oh right, Stack was activated. Stack is done so i don't see the point of even playing him. I don't see him contributing a whole lot in the remaining games. If anything i think he'll have a negative effect on the team.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-22-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkgreatness

I didn't get to watch the game (because of martigras!) but i thought green was gonna start getting some minutes. Soooooo i just looked at the boxscore and he didnt even play.....

I think it's time to accept that Green is not going to play anymore.

Stack being activated was the dagger in the heart for Green.

tcat075 · 02-22-2009, 11:13 AM

I've probably quote this enough, but I'll quote it once more:

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/02/gerald-greens-claims-to-fame.html

Green, by the way, remains hopeful that he can still have an impact on the Mavericks this season. He recently worked out with coach Rick Carlisle and came away with some cautious optimism.

"He said to be ready, that he's going to call my number again,'' Green said. "I'm just waiting on that opportunity. I still have confidence in myself that I can do this. I'm not going to let any situation take my confidence away.''

It sounds like Green's going to get one more chance, sometime before the end of the season.

ghazi · 02-22-2009, 06:58 AM

Wrights decent

horse900703 · 02-22-2009, 07:40 AM

beautiful win!

Folterkammer · 02-22-2009, 08:33 AM

win,
but does this one satisfy anyone? not me thats fo sho..

tcat075 · 02-22-2009, 09:02 AM

This win doesn't mean much. Well, it means that Sacramento's starters are about as good as our backups. Everybody pretty much knew that already.

It is encouraging to see our bench play great once again, however. I remember for a month or so in December, they were scoring almost 40 a game, I believe. Since then, they've cooled off. Of course, losing Jet was the big reason, but it was still nice to see Bass, JJ and Singleton all put a nice sum of points in.

ghazi · 02-22-2009, 10:14 AM

Stackhouse's PER is mf'n 4 this year. FOUR. FOUR

sphincs · 02-22-2009, 11:19 AM

easy win..and tonight, perhaps, Bobcats and Celtics can beat Rockets and Suns...

jthig32 · 02-22-2009, 11:27 AM

I don't understand this mantra of forcing first half minutes on Stack to get him into the swing of things. In November we were told Carlisle let Stack know that he was no longer a regular rotation player, and that was what led Stack to rest and fix his injury.

So now that he's back, we think so much of him that we're acting as if he's a no brainer member of the rotation, to the point that we force feed him minutes during games that aren't decided?

I don't get it.

tcat075 · 02-22-2009, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't understand this mantra of forcing first half minutes on Stack to get him into the swing of things. In November we were told Carlisle let Stack know that he was no longer a regular rotation player, and that was what led Stack to rest and fix his injury.

So now that he's back, we think so much of him that we're acting as if he's a no brainer member of the rotation, to the point that we force feed him minutes during games that aren't decided?

I don't get it.

Well, with Jet out, its pretty obvious we're lacking depth. I think the hope is that he will only take 4-5 games to get back into things and become a 15 minute a night type of guy who will be able to contribute.

In November, Jet wasn't injured. Now he is.

BGMaverick9 · 02-22-2009, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't understand this mantra of forcing first half minutes on Stack to get him into the swing of things. In November we were told Carlisle let Stack know that he was no longer a regular rotation player, and that was what led Stack to rest and fix his injury.

So now that he's back, we think so much of him that we're acting as if he's a no brainer member of the rotation, to the point that we force feed him minutes during games that aren't decided?

I don't get it.

I think they're forced by two reasons: Jet's injury, they want to see what Stack can do.

They know what George, Carroll and Green can bring so they want to see what Stack can do. They're probably figuring now is the best time to figure that out. They'll see what they can do and then readjust everything once Jet comes back and they'll set the playoff rotation for sure and figure the secondary/emergency group. The end of games is probably the better time to do that...but it may not be a true barometer or the situations might not be there as often.

I think Stack is close to being done but he's not done yet...he can still bring us some positives, I just think a major part of the battle for him is upstairs. He is coming off an injury and a long period of not playing. Before that, even going to last year, he was struggling. He just needs to build up some confidence and not be hesitant. I'm not saying that'll fix him, but it'll help.

grndmstr_c · 02-22-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't understand this mantra of forcing first half minutes on Stack to get him into the swing of things. In November we were told Carlisle let Stack know that he was no longer a regular rotation player, and that was what led Stack to rest and fix his injury.

So now that he's back, we think so much of him that we're acting as if he's a no brainer member of the rotation, to the point that we force feed him minutes during games that aren't decided?

I don't get it.

If Stack really was dealing with an injury that he's basically over now, don't you think his pedigree is enough for him to get some minutes to see if he can get it going? I do, and I think he's been used pretty intelligently, as well. First half, spanning the first and second quarters when the 2nd units are on the floor and he's not going to have to guard a legit wing scorer on the other team. I won't argue he's playing well, because he isn't, but I don't mind him at least getting the chance.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-22-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

If Stack really was dealing with an injury that he's basically over now, don't you think his pedigree is enough for him to get some minutes to see if he can get it going? I do, and I think he's been used pretty intelligently, as well. First half, spanning the first and second quarters when the 2nd units are on the floor and he's not going to have to guard a legit wing scorer on the other team. I won't argue he's playing well, because he isn't, but I don't mind him at least getting the chance.

We heard plenty during training camp about Stack being in better shape and him having abs, yadda, yadda. At what point do you say that the guy is done? He was averaging about a field goal a game plus plenty of misses when the season began.

You won't argue he is playing well so....why play him? Exactly what is anyone looking for him to contribute at this point? He can't shoot, can't defend, and the knees are gone.

grndmstr_c · 02-22-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

We heard plenty during training camp about Stack being in better shape and him having abs, yadda, yadda. At what point do you say that the guy is done? He was averaging about a field goal a game plus plenty of misses when the season began.

You won't argue he is playing well so....why play him? Exactly what is anyone looking for him to contribute at this point? He can't shoot, can't defend, and the knees are gone.

You can be in outstanding shape and still have a foot injury that will prevent you from playing basketball at a high level. And you can get in not outstanding shape pretty quickly if you're restricting your activity level to try to get over a foot injury.

As for when you say he's done? You say he's done if he can't start showing signs of improvement fairly soon, now that he's ostensibly healthy again.

And you play him to see if you can get him playing well. What I am looking for him to contribute is whatever he can. If it's not enough to justify playing him ahead of DG and Carroll, then you end the experiment and give them his minutes.

I feel like this is all just common sense - at least if you believe that the foot injury was real. And it's not like his PT thus far has cost the Mavs any games.

BGMaverick9 · 02-22-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

You can be in outstanding shape and still have a foot injury that will prevent you from playing basketball at a high level. And you can get in not outstanding shape pretty quickly if you're restricting your activity level to try to get over a foot injury.

As for when you say he's done? You say he's done if he can't start showing signs of improvement fairly soon, now that he's ostensibly healthy again.

And you play him to see if you can get him playing well. What I am looking for him to contribute is whatever he can. If it's not enough to justify playing him ahead of DG and Carroll, then you end the experiment and give them his minutes.

I feel like this is all just common sense - at least if you believe that the foot injury was real. And it's not like his PT thus far has cost the Mavs any games.

just to add on to that:
"I don't want people to have ridiculous expectations about him coming back and being our savior because this has been three months," coach Rick Carlisle said. "This is going to take some time."

People were also clamoring for some toughness/fight to come to this team, doesn't Stack bring that as well?