Charlie V made the team - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

DGM · 10-09-2014, 12:23 PM

He had a little rust but the talent was evident. That 3 stroke looked good.

mavs777 · 10-09-2014, 12:49 PM

I don't see the point, he'd be like 13th in the rotation and behind better backup PF options.

dude1394 · 10-09-2014, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

I don't see the point, he'd be like 13th in the rotation and behind better backup PF options.

Who is that besides parsons?

EricaLubarsky · 10-09-2014, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Who is that besides parsons?

I'd put Wright and Aminu in front of him, so a depth chart that looks something like this:

Dirk/Parsons/Aminu/Wright/Charlie/Jefferson/Crowder

Then a couple of guys behind him, too in Jefferson, Crowder who aren't best there, but probably can play some minutes at the 4 and have in the past.

That's some ridiculous depth. I was actually impressed with Charlie's shooting (and disappointed with his defense/rebounding), but we can go 6-7 deep with players that have played/can play there with two legitimate starting-caliber players in Dirk and Parsons and two solid (but situational) backup in Wright and Aminu. We also already have Wright, who is one of the most gifted offensive talents we've had here as a backup (1st in TS% last year) who has amazing chemistry with Harris with the same rebounding weakness, but better team defense (shotblocking). He doesn't have tons of range, but he's potent (69.5% TS%)

Our guard spot is much more sketchy with Ledo playing terribly and Mekel being Mekel. Having a lot of guards doesn't equal depth in that case.

tcat075 · 10-09-2014, 03:42 PM

Carlisle's said some really nice things about him. Pretty confident he'll bump Ledo or Mekel off the team when cuts are made.

dude1394 · 10-09-2014, 03:50 PM

Well just have to see erica. I expect it will be Dirk, Parsons/Charlie. Aminu I think will get most of the parsons minutes. Wright...tbh I'd trade the dude if we didn't have such unproven guys at center.

DGM · 10-09-2014, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Well just have to see erica. I expect it will be Dirk, Parsons/Charlie. Aminu I think will get most of the parsons minutes. Wright...tbh I'd trade the dude if we didn't have such unproven guys at center.

Agree about Wright. He doesn't have an outside game or the strength to play inside. A 6' 10" player who can't rebound is a misfit. SA really exposed him in the playoffs.

EricaLubarsky · 10-09-2014, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

Agree about Wright. He doesn't have an outside game or the strength to play inside. A 6' 10" player who can't rebound is a misfit. SA really exposed him in the playoffs.

Wait are we criticizing Wright for lack of rebounding, defense, and/or interior presence in a thread about Charlie V?

DGM · 10-09-2014, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Wait are we criticizing Wright for lack of rebounding, defense, and/or interior presence in a thread about Charlie V?

Yes, because if Wright goes it will be because Charlie made him expendable.

EricaLubarsky · 10-09-2014, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

Yes, because if Wright goes it will be because Charlie made him expendable.

Makes as much sense to me as talking about upgrading Harden's defense by swapping him or supplementing him with Steve Nash at 40.

Rebounding rating
Wright 24.5
Charlie 19.5

Rebound rate
Wright 13.1 (41st among PFs)
Charlie 10.3 (82nd among PFs)

Block rating
Wright 6.6
Charlie 3.8

+/-
Wright +6.1
Villanueva -11.2

dude1394 · 10-09-2014, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Wait are we criticizing Wright for lack of rebounding, defense, and/or interior presence in a thread about Charlie V?

Yes...because being able to actually shoot covers up a lot of flaws.

EricaLubarsky · 10-09-2014, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Yes...because being able to actually shoot covers up a lot of flaws.

Which is why he's consistently been good at +/- for every team he's been on?

rimrocker · 10-10-2014, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Yes...because being able to actually shoot covers up a lot of flaws.

Our starting PF is proof of that.

DGM · 10-19-2014, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Wait are we criticizing Wright for lack of rebounding, defense, and/or interior presence in a thread about Charlie V?

I am seeing something different in Wright. That those pounds of muscle that he added are keeping him from being pushed around. Hopefully we will see some benefit in his rebounding. An improved Wright can be a season changer for the Mavs this year. I may have given up on him as an inside player too soon.

spreedom · 10-09-2014, 09:58 PM

Villanueva's a turd that will almost certainly get flushed before the start of the regular season.

dude1394 · 10-09-2014, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Villanueva's a turd that will almost certainly get flushed before the start of the regular season.

Ah nice analysis... Thanks for sharing.

spreedom · 10-11-2014, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Ah nice analysis... Thanks for sharing.

Dude, I'm sorry but I just don't like Villanueva. He hasn't been a productive player since he left Milwaukee, and has amazingly managed to become less productive each year for the last six consecutive seasons. He's a terrible defender, an even worse rebounder, and has only shot above 35% TWICE in his career. I have no interest in a stretch four that is a career 34% three-point shooter.

Aminu should be the primary backup at power forward because he fills needs as a defender and rebounder. I think at this stage Wright should be a situational backup/third-stringer at PF and C. Villanueva, unless he miraculously has a career-high season in terms of efficiency, has very little value as an NBA player.

quietsavant · 12-29-2014, 09:43 PM

[QUOTE=spreedom;1356466]Villanueva's a turd that will almost certainly get flushed before the start of the regular season.[/QUOTE]

I love bumping threads like this. lol

spreedom · 12-29-2014, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

I love bumping threads like this. lol

Very happy to be wrong about this.

dude1394 · 12-29-2014, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Very happy to be wrong about this.

Charlie V. The turd says merry christmas.

spreedom · 12-30-2014, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Charlie V. The turd says merry christmas.

EricaLubarsky · 10-09-2014, 11:41 PM

Charlie
2013-2104 Detroit
-11.2
2012-2013 Detroit
-1.1
2011-2012 Detroit
-3.2
2010-2011 Detroit
-3.6
2009-2010 Detroit
-2.7

Wright
2013-2104 Dallas
+6.1
2012-2013 Dallas
+7.8
2011-2012 Dallas
+2.8

dude1394 · 10-09-2014, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Charlie
2013-2104 Detroit
-11.2
2012-2013 Detroit
-1.1
2011-2012 Detroit
-3.2
2010-2011 Detroit
-3.6
2009-2010 Detroit
-2.7

Wright
2013-2104 Dallas
+6.1
2012-2013 Dallas
+7.8
2011-2012 Dallas
+2.8

You win, Charlie V stunk in Detroit.. Brendan Wright is a stud who should be the backup center and/or power forward... but won't.

sig · 10-10-2014, 08:15 AM

I could see Jefferson and Villanueva battling for a spot. I don't see why Sarge and Mekel are here. Mekel and Sarge have no upside. If Villanieva makes the team, I think it will be at the expense of one of those 3. IMO, Crowder is clearly ahead of Jefferson until Crowder messes it up. If Crowder has developed consistency in his game then I expect Jefferson is a vet who rings up DNPs.

I don't see the Mavs cutting Ledo for Villanueva. Ledo has a whole lot of upside and a cheap contract. He just needs experience. Last year and this year are probably his version of college ball. If he was a 4 year college player then this would be his senior year. I think the Ledo make or break year to make the roster is probably next year.

EricaLubarsky · 10-10-2014, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sig

I could see Jefferson and Villanueva battling for a spot. I don't see why Sarge and Mekel are here. Mekel and Sarge have no upside. If Villanieva makes the team, I think it will be at the expense of one of those 3. IMO, Crowder is clearly ahead of Jefferson until Crowder messes it up. If Crowder has developed consistency in his game then I expect Jefferson is a vet who rings up DNPs.

I don't see the Mavs cutting Ledo for Villanueva. Ledo has a whole lot of upside and a cheap contract. He just needs experience. Last year and this year are probably his version of college ball. If he was a 4 year college player then this would be his senior year. I think the Ledo make or break year to make the roster is probably next year.

James is here because of things like Tuesday night. Chandler in foul trouble or injured. Smith with 4 PFs in 4 min. Wright is situational at best at C.

Mekel is basically the same. Nelson and Felton are unproven. Harris can only play 20mpg or so between the two guard spots. If either Nelson or Felton don't turn out or if one of out guards gets injured, we need a 4th stringer.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-10-2014, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

James is here because of things like Tuesday night. Chandler in foul trouble or injured. Smith with 4 PFs in 4 min. Wright is situational at best at C.

Mekel is basically the same. Nelson and Felton are unproven. Harris can only play 20mpg or so between the two guard spots. If either Nelson or Felton don't turn out or if one of out guards gets injured, we need a 4th stringer.

But you could feasibly make an argument that CV is the third string PF depending on Aminu and Wright not getting many PF minutes.

And come on...Tuesday is a horrid example when it comes to fouls. That was one of the worst reffed games I've ever seen.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-10-2014, 10:25 AM

Quote:

DALLAS -- A conversation with coach Rick Carlisle convinced veteran power forward Charlie Villanueva to accept a camp invitation from the Dallas Mavericks over other nonguaranteed offers.

“He was just like, ‘There is a legitimate chance of you making this roster, but you’ve got to want it,’” Villanueva said. “I like that. I love that. He wasn’t giving it to me. I have to earn it. That’s what I want. I want to earn things here.”

The 6-foot-11, 232-pound Villanueva, whose once promising career fizzled the last few seasons while he fought injuries with the Detroit Pistons, could fill a void as a stretch power forward off the bench for the Mavs.

There is no doubt that the 30-year-old Villanueva could provide some scoring bunch off the bench. He’s healthy, in good shape and shooting the ball like the guy who averaged double figures in his first six seasons in the league.

The Mavs got a glimpse of that in Tuesday’s preseason opener, when Villanueva scored 13 points in 14 minutes during the loss to the Houston Rockets, hitting 4-of-8 shots from the floor and 3-of-6 from 3-point range.

“He can score and he can shoot it,” Carlisle said. “That’s his skill and that’s his gift. I’d like to see him do a better job defensively, particularly in the post, where he got hurt. And I think he’s capable of doing that.”

It was definitely a tough night defensively for Villanueva, who was limited to 14 minutes because he fouled out. Houston 7-footer Donatas Motiejunas (18 points, 7-of-11 shooting) did much of his damage against Villanueva, repeatedly getting great position on the block and dropping jump hooks over him.

Villanueva, whose contract includes no guaranteed money, gets another shot to impress the Mavs’ brass in Friday night’s preseason game against the Oklahoma City Thunder. He must perform well enough to convince Carlisle and owner Mark Cuban to keep him over a player whose salary is guaranteed.

“We’re just going to pick the best players,” Cuban said. “I don’t care what the contract is. I’d be happy to do it. I don’t care.”

Could Villanueva help the Mavs more than fourth-string point guard Gal Mekel or fourth-string center Bernard James or developmental shooting guard Ricky Ledo? Those are the players he’s competing against for a roster spot.

“I feel good about it, but I’m not really too focused on that,” Villanueva said. “I’m just focused on doing what I need to do, what coach needs me to do.”

The message from Carlisle to Villanueva is clear: Man up on defense if you want to be a Maverick.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...medium=twitter

bunkmoreland · 10-10-2014, 10:49 AM

My prediction: Goodbye, Gal. Hello, Charlie. But it depends on a strong remainder of the preseason. I am pulling for him.

Can we stop talking about Gal as if he fills a need?

Mavs' PG rankings:
1a Nelson
1b Harris
3 Felton
4 Ellis
5 Crowder
6 Parsons
7 Dirk
8 Mekel

I exaggerate, but if Gal sees non-garbage time minutes, we are in trouble, right?

jthig32 · 10-10-2014, 01:27 PM

I don't think it's out of the question that Charlie V makes the team, but he'd simply become practice fodder replacing other practice fodder. Don't see him beating out Wright/Aminu/Parsons/Jefferson for backup PF minutes.

quietsavant · 10-10-2014, 02:54 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg3F...pDk-0o&index=3

This guy is going to make this team. His stretch shooting can be used in spots. If we found a way to hide Peja on Defense, we certainly could hide Charlie on Defense or have him buy into the team defense and use his offense in spots. So, whether you're with it or not, guys, he's here to stay. Get used to it.

dude1394 · 10-10-2014, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg3F...pDk-0o&index=3

This guy is going to make this team. His stretch shooting can be used in spots. If we found a way to hide Peja on Defense, we certainly could hide Charlie on Defense or have him buy into the team defense and use his offense in spots. So, whether you're with it or not, guys, he's here to stay. Get used to it.

There is no way in the world that Charlie v can't be a better defender than Peja. Peja was one misstep from retirement.

rimrocker · 10-10-2014, 03:41 PM

Has Jefferson ever played one minute at PF?
I'm sorry but I have to chuckle when I see his name as a PF option.
If Parsons, Aminu, Jefferson and Crowder are in the game at the same time we are playing 4 SFs and no PFs unless Dirk is in the game with them.

CV is the only true PF on the roster other than Dirk.
And Wright is Center in a PF/SF body.

DGM · 10-10-2014, 08:57 PM

we will see.

mavs777 · 10-11-2014, 02:17 AM

I'm pretty confident in saying James is a better basketball player than Charlie V, he has showed ability to rebound and defend in small minutes. Charlie V is a one trick pony and the one thing he does isn't valuable enough, yes a 34% three point shooter from your big helps but if that is all he does useful he shouldn't be playing for a playoff team. Charlie V is an awful rebounder and awful defender, there is no reason for him to make the team.

sig · 10-11-2014, 11:27 AM

The reason I don't really understand why the Mavs would be so married to Mekel and Sarge are you can probaby pluck them back or someone as good from the D-League if injuries strike. So what if he was to take of their roster spots. The only drawback to that strategy is they have been in the RC system. I brought up Jefferson but after seeing the OKC game, I certainly don't see CV taking his spot.

I don't really care if they keep CV or not. I don't really want him playing before any of RJ, Crowder, Wright, Aminu, or Greg Smith. Wright is a far better fit on the offensive end than CV. They are not breaking up the Wright/Devin duo off the bench.

mavs777 · 10-11-2014, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sig

The reason I don't really understand why the Mavs would be so married to Mekel and Sarge are you can probaby pluck them back or someone as good from the D-League if injuries strike. So what if he was to take of their roster spots. The only drawback to that strategy is they have been in the RC system. I brought up Jefferson but after seeing the OKC game, I certainly don't see CV taking his spot.

I don't really care if they keep CV or not. I don't really want him playing before any of RJ, Crowder, Wright, Aminu, or Greg Smith. Wright is a far better fit on the offensive end than CV. They are not breaking up the Wright/Devin duo off the bench.

They have 14 NBA players (sorry Mekel), James is the perfect guy in case of emergency, and I do think we would have trouble finding someone as good as him for end of bench role. As for mekel you can't have 15 guys expecting to get minutes or the lockerroom would explode, he's making just above the minimum I believe and is the 4th PG, I do think if you see a situation like last year where he has to be second pg for a while because of injuries we would release him and look for upgrade. But only in that scenario.

dude1394 · 10-13-2014, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

I'm pretty confident in saying James is a better basketball player than Charlie V, he has showed ability to rebound and defend in small minutes. Charlie V is a one trick pony and the one thing he does isn't valuable enough, yes a 34% three point shooter from your big helps but if that is all he does useful he shouldn't be playing for a playoff team. Charlie V is an awful rebounder and awful defender, there is no reason for him to make the team.

Charlie v just won us a game while sarge couldn't get off the bench in pre-season.

dirt_dobber · 10-13-2014, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Charlie v just won us a game while sarge couldn't get off the bench in pre-season.

6 of 8 shooting and 4 rebounds in just 11 min, ALL in the 4th qtr.
C.V. = still hungry veteran = keep him.

jthig32 · 10-11-2014, 11:33 AM

The reason Sarge has a leg up has to do with roster composition. Tyson has been injury prone his entire career. Wright is only a center in certain matchups. Smith has his own injury history, is foul prone, and is largely unproven.

The reality is, unless you want Dirk banging at center, it's very likely you will need Sarge to soak up some minutes at center over the course of the season.

Underdog · 10-11-2014, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

The reason Sarge has a leg up has to do with roster composition. Tyson has been injury prone his entire career. Wright is only a center in certain matchups. Smith has his own injury history, is foul prone, and is largely unproven.

The reality is, unless you want Dirk banging at center, it's very likely you will need Sarge to soak up some minutes at center over the course of the season.

Which is why I'm totally fine with Bernard James occupying the 15th roster spot.

He's not great at any one aspect of the game, but he's not bad at any of them either - he can give you solid defense/rebounding/scoring when he's not completely outmatched. Sarge won't win the game for you, but he won't lose it for you either. Not a bad safety net to have for our injury-prone bigs

Edit: This is a Charlie V thread??? I'd take Bernard over Villanueva... There, relevant.