Poll: vote now, NVE for Ward and Thomas - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 06-24-2002, 09:56 PM

vote please

Murphy3 · 06-24-2002, 10:27 PM

3-3 so far

DTL · 06-24-2002, 10:59 PM

just broke the tie.

don't think that's enough value for NVE.

Murphy3 · 06-24-2002, 11:00 PM

damn, waaay over valuing his importance to the mavs

david, go ahead and vote so we can get some sanity back to this situation

foglemann · 06-24-2002, 11:06 PM

I do it just because it gives up a real small foward and back up pg. Nick is good, but Murph is right, he ain't that good or as important as to another team. I don't like Ward that much but I would do it.

mick · 06-25-2002, 07:38 AM

No. I think you can get more if Mavs add some filler. OOOOPPS! Got rid of Manning, there goes some of that filler.

Stressboy91 · 06-25-2002, 08:47 AM

Only if we get the the 36 and the rights to Fredrick Weiss.

Dooby · 06-25-2002, 08:55 AM

I broke another tie. I do this deal. I still suspect we promised NVE that we would try to move him. Easier to do now as opposed to later.

Murphy3 · 06-25-2002, 08:56 AM

the over-valuing of NVE continues by some..

thanks dooby for voting correctly

The Crippler · 06-25-2002, 09:01 AM

the overvaluing of Kurt Thomas continues by some.

Chicago JK · 06-25-2002, 09:03 AM

The overvaluing of NVE?? I think it would be best to move him, but I don't want to give him away. Kurt Thomas is a nice player, but he is nothing special. I think you can get a little more. Plus you would have to take one of the bad NY contracts. The Knicks have been willing to give away Ward for almost 2 years and they have had no takers.

Van Exel past scares me, but he is one of the top 12 point guards in the league. His reputation puts him down a few places, but he is negotiating piece. I don't think you trade him just to get rid of him.

Dooby · 06-25-2002, 09:04 AM

I think the issue is value to whom? He is still a starter and can and should start for somebody. Overpaid though, which limits the trade options. You won't get 2 starting calibre players for NVE, nor do you need them. You need to get one starter and a role player for NVE. This trade accomplishes that.

Murphy3 · 06-25-2002, 09:06 AM

he has value..of course..but he has more value to the mavs in trade than what he does as a mavs player..

he has more value as a starter than he does as a backup PG

Murphy3 · 06-25-2002, 09:08 AM

the crippler, your opinion is not welcome here
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Chicago JK · 06-25-2002, 09:10 AM

ok i agree. He is a starter and not a backup type player.
Although, I am not that interested in Thomas. I have a feeling he would come back and immediately hurt his ankle.

Murphy3 · 06-25-2002, 09:12 AM

haha..well, i don't think he would...but there's a chance of injury with any player at just about any time

Nellie · 06-25-2002, 09:25 AM

I would do it. We may not have another chance to address two problems for the price of one.

The Crippler · 06-25-2002, 12:05 PM

murph, this may be one of the only things we disagree about with the mavs, but I think Van Exel has a place on this team, and actually like what he brings to the table. He's a very good PG (not great, but better than what is out there), and I think he brings some much needed attitude to the team. He wants to win badly, and toned down his game to fit in with the mavs last season. Give him some more time and see what happens. If it isn't working out, then trade him mid season like juwan and laetner before him.

I don't like playing he and nash together at the end of the game because of defensive reasons, but they can definatly play together in the middle of the game, IMO. The problem is, all three of he, nash and finley are liabilities on defense, mainly at the end of the ballgame, so you can't have all three out there when trying to close out a game. One is going to have to get over having his feelings hurt and not be out there at the end, and that will probably be NVE. If he can suck it up and not cause problems b/c of this I like him on the team. If not, then trade him and try to get value for him. At the trading deadline, more teams need PGs (injuries, slumps, etc.), therefore his value will probably be as high, if not higher than it is now anyway.

Therefore, I don't do the deal unless something better comes along. Where are you going to play Thomas anyway? Dirk is and will be our PF for years to come no matter what anyone thinks. He is not really a SF and Nellie likes to play him at PF. Thomas won't survive at C in this conference and sure as hell can't play SF. I just think there will be better deals out there given some time to let them materlialize.

Murphy3 · 06-25-2002, 12:08 PM

NVE CAN have a place on this team if he significantly cuts the number of shots he takes per minute.

do i think he will?... very doubtful. that's why i think he becomes more valuable in trade

Murphy3 · 06-25-2002, 12:09 PM

i don't think nellie would have any problem playing dirk at 3..if you do that, thomas could play 4 or 5 and raef could play the other

The Crippler · 06-25-2002, 12:41 PM

I'm not convinced that Dirk can guard a 3. I'm also not convinced that Nellie will play him there even if he says he will. I will have to see both to believe it.

Murphy3 · 06-25-2002, 12:45 PM

I agree that dirk would have some difficulties guarding some 3's... and i don't think that it's his best position..but, it might keep him out of foul trouble (not a huge problem to begin with)..

however, would the combination of thomas and raef in the middle be enough to offset dirk having difficulties guarding certain 3's?

also, you'd think that raef would play around 30 minutes..same for thomas or a similar player.. there's alot of opportunity there for one of them to be out and actually move dirk to the 4 spot... he could actually start at 3 yet play a good percentage of the game at 4.

mick · 06-25-2002, 01:12 PM

<< The problem is, all three of he, nash and finley are liabilities on defense, mainly at the end of the ballgame, so you can't have all three out there when trying to close out a game. >>

I think the reason is that they are played too many minutes (even though Fin wants to stay in). Keep their legs fresh toward the end of the game and our defense improves, especially Nash. Keep Fin out of the 3 position and spot rest and he will be a better defender. What we need is a big combo guard that can play both O/D for about 30 minutes a game. Basically what we should have done with Nick, except someone who can also defend. If Buck and Griffin could stay healthy, they could each play 15 minutes a game and do the job.

Murphy3 · 06-25-2002, 01:24 PM

the results of this poll just get more skewed by over-valuing NVE's value as a player on this team....

FilthyFinMavs · 06-25-2002, 01:34 PM

<< the results of this poll just get more skewed by over-valuing NVE's value as a player on this team.... >>

No one is overvauling Nick its just you guys are overvauling Kurt Thomas. I admit I like Kurt but no way I bring Ward here to back up us up. Now Mark Jackson I would love to have here but no way in hell I bring in WARD. Im gonna get negative feedback but I would trade NVE and Najera for Thomas and there pick which is number 7 right? But I dont do this deal because I feel Nick is a better player than Kurt and if Nick is here next season he wont be shooting 40 pecent I guarantee that because we have so many weapons on this team ints unrealistic to shoot 40 percent.

No Mavs can do bettter than this for NVE we would do better just keepign NVE. Tho if we could sign Keon Clark with the exception this trade looks beter in my opinion. Murph I thought u didnt like Juwan Howard? Kurt Thomas is just a cheaper version of him.

TheKid · 06-25-2002, 01:41 PM

Why trade for Jackson, he has at MOST a year left in him.. Ward has more than that atleast as a back up he does for sure.

Murphy3 · 06-25-2002, 01:47 PM

<< Nick is here next season he wont be shooting 40 pecent I guarantee that because we have so many weapons on this team ints unrealistic to shoot 40 percent. >>

why won't he shoot 40%..he's been around that area virtually every year of his career?

the mavs need a kurt thomas type player more than they need an out of place backup PG...

Stressboy91 · 06-25-2002, 01:53 PM

Murphy,

I said I would take the deal if I got the 36 pick and Weiss(who I don't know if he still plays or will ever be available. Does anyone know what he's up to?), but I don't take Ward with out getting more. I agree that getting Thomas would help the Mavs, but Ward is a serious downgrade in the guard rotation. I think he and Avery are about equal which means they are on their last legs. So I did not vote because you did not put the 36 as one of the options. Am I over valuing NVE?

My biggest gripe with this kind of deal which is my main gripe with all of these trades is that none of them look to the future. Could this help us win it all, I doubt it without a good backup to put into the guard rotation. Why not take Jackson instead of Ward? He has a different game, pretty good post game and about the same salary I think. He could not run the uptempo offense we want, I doubt Ward could either. We need some more good players like Buckner/Najera to come out of this draft and at 36 Nelson should be able to get one. Maybe with 36 and 55 we could trade up into the first round to get a backup point?

Murphy3 · 06-25-2002, 01:59 PM

why do you make that trade? because you would bring in a guy that could help your inside defense for years to come. The mavericks would need to somehow get a PG for future needs..but NVE isn't the answer there either

FilthyFinMavs · 06-25-2002, 02:10 PM

<< Why trade for Jackson, he has at MOST a year left in him.. Ward has more than that atleast as a back up he does for sure. >>

My point was I would take an old Mark Jackson over a yougner Ward any day. If im going to trade Nick it has to be more than bringin Ward in here. Are strongest position on our team is the point guard I feel and if we bring in Ward that position is probaly our worst. I guess the 36 pick sounds more reasonable and I dont see why NY wouldnt give it up in the deal. I think alot of us are wanting to see Nick get trade for an Antonio Davis or Brian Grant type player. Well I know I am.

Murphy3 · 06-25-2002, 02:12 PM

i'd rather have jackson as well..but that wasn't the hypothetical trade.

even with bringing in ward, it's still a good deal for the mavs..it helps to address their main need while giving them at least a serviceable backup at PG..if they don't feel comfortable with him at the backup PG spot, they still have the exception to address their PG issues.

Dirk77 · 06-25-2002, 02:25 PM

I just voted pro trade, Thomas it underated.

Murphy3 · 06-25-2002, 02:26 PM

dirk77, you're an underrated poster

Dirk77 · 06-25-2002, 02:33 PM

the thing is, people, well, some people here look at Nick and say: "he can go for 22pp and 9 dimes" but that isn't true, he CAN'T do that in DALLAS! Where as we CAN get good D, 8 ppg and 10 rpg and 1.6 bpg out of Mr. Thomas, he can help this team and be maximized to a far greater level here then Nick can.

TheKid · 06-25-2002, 02:35 PM

I voted for the trade too, but let me tell you. Thomas rebounds and will give you solid scoring but he's NO defensive stopper or shot blocker by any stretch of the imagination. He gives you muscle down low but with that being said, I would be willing to give away some scoring for another good rebounder.

Murphy3 · 06-25-2002, 02:36 PM

agreed.

NVE isn't as valuable in a mavs uniform as he would be in a knicks uniform..or any other team that needs a starting PG.

NVE isn't as valuable to the mavs as a guy that can come in and play solid interior defense, grab some boards, and score 8-10 points

Dirk77 · 06-25-2002, 02:36 PM

no stopper, but solid D.

Drbio · 06-25-2002, 02:39 PM

Since we need muscle, it would be a good idea.

Murphy3 · 06-26-2002, 12:41 PM

13-11 in favor of the trade... and there's been at least a couple people that have mentioned they are now in favor of the deal

grbh · 06-27-2002, 10:26 AM

I have a question regarding this trade. Nobody has mentioned what Thomas did to the Mavs a few years ago when he bolted after Nellie took him under his wing, and he even allegedly agreed to a verbal contract.

Does this not affect the trade status?