Chris Kaman to the Mavs

[rabbitproof]

No reasonable doubt!

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

No reasonable doubt!

You forgot to say "clearly."

[Underdog]

According to last year's numbers, Chris Kaman is the second-best scorer on this squad - no more 4-on-5 offense (or 3-on-5 when you consider how bad Kidd's shot was last season...)

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Underdog

According to last year's numbers, Chris Kaman is the second-best scorer on this squad - no more 4-on-5 offense (or 3-on-5 when you consider how bad Kidd's shot was last season...)

Are you sure about that? The Mavs don't have a shooting guard and Shawn Marion is playing at the 3 spot...If Marion continues to regress, he can only be counted as a half on offense.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Are you sure about that? The Mavs don't have a shooting guard and Shawn Marion is playing at the 3 spot...If Marion continues to regress, he can only be counted as a half on offense.

2011-2012:

Kaman - 13.1 PPG
Marion - 10.6 PPG
(Terry) - 15.1 PPG

We'll see what we do with SG, but we could definitely still use some more scoring - at least Collison is a to-the-basket player and Marion should still be good for some put-backs.

[Murphy3]

Yeah...Marion's shooting percentage took a huge hit. And if you're not getting to the line or hitting threes, that's a little harder to swallow. Although I do expect him to bounce back a little simply because the Mavs will be better offensively this year in my opinion.

[sike]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Most of the SG's we're looking at should at least match Terry's numbers...

That seems SO optimistic.

And I love it!

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by sike

That seems SO optimistic.

And I love it!

I actually edited that, but you never know what the MBT has up their sleeve - I could see another trade netting us a better scorer than anyone currently on the market, especially with guys like Carter/Roddy/Wright/DoJo as assets on top of the cap space we have left.

For example, Fish was talking about Iguodala the other day (which the basketball gods won't allow now that Fish has mentioned it, but something along those lines...)

[sike]

We'll you're the first I've heard propose a trade for a SG who will net more than JET....So I'm prepared to reward you handsomely if you turn out to be correct......................good sir.

Originally Posted by Underdog

I actually edited that, but you never know what the MBT has up their sleeve - I could see another trade netting us a better scorer than anyone currently on the market, especially with guys like Carter/Roddy/Wright/DoJo as assets on top of the cap space we have left.

For example, Fish was talking about Iguodala the other day (which the basketball gods won't allow now that Fish has mentioned it, but something along those lines...)

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by sike

We'll you're the first I've heard propose a trade for a SG who will net more than JET....So I'm prepared to reward you handsomely if you turn out to be correct......................good sir.

I'll take my payment in Heisenberg's Blue Sky methamphetamine, please!

(that's how I come up with this stuff in the first place...)

[CanadianMavsFan]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I'll take my payment in Heisenberg's Blue Sky methamphetamine, please!

(that's how I come up with this stuff in the first place...)

Such a damn great show.

[|_Jeff_|]

The primary role for a C is to defend the paint which becomes more important when paired with Dirk in the frontcourt. Big advantage for Haywood over Kaman on the defensive side.

On offense Kaman scores an inefficient 13ppg if you feed him (Kaman had a higher usage percentage than Dwight and Bynum last season). But his FG% ranked 33rd among NBA centers. When you narrow it to centers who played at least 20 games with high usage (over 15%), Kaman ranked 17th out of 20 centers in FG%, eFG% and TS%. That's pretty bad.

[Bayliss]

And it totally sucks that AMC and Dish are in a dispute so Heisenberg will have to wait for me.

[Lor20]

Originally Posted by |_Jeff_|

The primary role for a C is to defend the paint which becomes more important when paired with Dirk in the frontcourt. Big advantage for Haywood over Kaman on the defensive side.

On offense Kaman scores an inefficient 13ppg if you feed him (Kaman had a higher usage percentage than Dwight and Bynum last season). But his FG% ranked 33rd among NBA centers. When you narrow it to centers who played at least 20 games with high usage (over 15%), Kaman ranked 17th out of 20 centers in FG%, eFG% and TS%. That's pretty bad.

he was also on an absolutely awful team. only time will tell what he can do with a better team around him.

[|_Jeff_|]

Originally Posted by Underdog

According to last year's numbers, Chris Kaman is the second-best scorer on this squad - no more 4-on-5 offense (or 3-on-5 when you consider how bad Kidd's shot was last season...)

Based on what?

Pretty much every player on the Mavs roster that played significant minutes scored more efficiently than Kaman last year. Only exception is Lamar Odom.

[Bayliss]

Pretty much every player on the Mavs roster that played significant minutes scored more efficiently than Kaman last year. Only exception is Lamar Odom.

Kidd and Haywood did?

[|_Jeff_|]

Originally Posted by Lor20

he was also on an absolutely awful team. only time will tell what he can do with a better team around him.

Maybe. But Kaman got those 13ppg from being fed in the post. High usage rate and high FGA despite low efficiency because his team didn't have better options. That's not going to happen with the Mavs in an offense featuring Dirk. Likely we'll see his efficiency increase but his box score numbers decrease. IMHO.

[|_Jeff_|]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Kidd and Haywood did?

Haywood .518

Kidd .507

Kaman .446

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by |_Jeff_|

Pretty much every player on the Mavs roster that played significant minutes scored more efficiently than Kaman last year.

See, that sounds a lot more like "the Mavs run a system that maximizes the efficiency of their players" than "Kaman sucks."

[Bayliss]

Eh. Kidd and Haywood combined to shoot 10 shots a game. All Kidd shot was open 3 pointers. And all Haywood shot was dunks.

Kaman's shooting isn't great. But the few times in his career when he wasn't asked to shoot that much... his FG% jumped up to a respectable total.

[GhostFace]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

And it totally sucks that AMC and Dish are in a dispute so Heisenberg will have to wait for me.

First the twitter thing and now this. You really need to get out and view the internet. You can find Heisenburg's blue crystal on a plethora of websites just let me know if you're interested

[Rick41]

Chris Kaman ‏@ChrisKaman

Put it this way: I wasn't crazy about Bill Simmons in 2006 and still not crazy about BS in 2012. #Douche

Made me lol.

[Bayliss]

Heh. It's just different.

[|_Jeff_|]

Originally Posted by Underdog

See, that sounds a lot more like "the Mavs run a system that maximizes the efficiency of their players" than "Kaman sucks."

Kaman was 15th most efficient scorer on the Hornets last year. 11th among NOH players that played sig minutes.

[Bayliss]

Good Kaman. Get that chip on your shoulder. Show the basketball world that you can be healthy and be better than Brendan Haywood!

[Rick41]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Good Kaman. Get that chip on your shoulder. Show the basketball world that you can be healthy and be better than Brendan Haywood!

That shouldn't be a problem.

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by |_Jeff_|

I'd rather have Haywood TBQH. Check back in January and see where the forum stands. The amnesty was about contract length and financial flexibility, not about an upgrade at the position.

Oh really? We do know this much...MBT thinks Kaman is worth 8mil this year and Haywood isnt. I happen to agree with them 100%.

[pepe]

Originally Posted by |_Jeff_|

Kaman was 15th most efficient scorer on the Hornets last year. 11th among NOH players that played sig minutes.

Wow did Kaman sunken that much??? couple of years ago he was a consensus 5-10 best Center in the league.

Must admit did not watch him so much with the Hornets, watch a lot with the Clippers, a couple of years back, very crafty, underrated defender only thing I never liked was that if the ball goes through him it never came back, but RC is aware of that.

[|_Jeff_|]

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Oh really? We do know this much...MBT thinks Kaman is worth 8mil this year and Haywood isnt. I happen to agree with them 100%.

Not true. MBT thought Haywood was worth $55M over 6 years in 2010. They thought Kaman was worth $8M over one year in 2012, with part of that value as an expiring contract.

The amnesty of Haywood and signing of Kaman was about financial flexibility, not roster upgrade. Who's the better player? Doesn't matter. This was a salary cap chess move in the pursuit of a superstar free agent in the future - trade deadline or summer 2013.

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by |_Jeff_|

Not true. MBT thought Haywood was worth $55M over 6 years in 2010. They thought Kaman was worth $8M over one year in 2012, with part of that value as an expiring contract.

The amnesty of Haywood and signing of Kaman was about financial flexibility, not roster upgrade. Who's the better player? Doesn't matter. This was a salary cap chess move in the pursuit of a superstar free agent in the future - trade deadline or summer 2013.

Don't be rediculous, the Mavs could have opted to not sign Kaman and keep Haywood this season...and still have the option to amnesty or trade him later if they thought he was better than Kaman. So my point stands that MBT thinks Kaman is better than Haywood

[CanadianMavsFan]

Originally Posted by |_Jeff_|

Haywood .518

Kidd .507

Kaman .446

Huh?

Kidd shot .363 from the field.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Oh really? We do know this much...MBT thinks Kaman is worth 8mil this year and Haywood isnt. I happen to agree with them 100%.

We actually do not know that. We know that the mbt thinks Kaman's one year contract is worth more than Haywood's 3years. That's really about all we " know"

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Don't be rediculous, the Mavs could have opted to not sign Kaman and keep Haywood this season...and still have the option to amnesty or trade him later if they thought he was better than Kaman. So my point stands that MBT thinks Kaman is better than Haywood

I don't think,he's being ridiculous. Haywood would have had to be amnestied after the season. Kaman can be traded this year as an expiring. If they wanted to do something this season someone would have had to tak all of woods contract.

[|_Jeff_|]

Originally Posted by roadrunner

Don't be rediculous, the Mavs could have opted to not sign Kaman and keep Haywood this season...and still have the option to amnesty or trade him later if they thought he was better than Kaman. So my point stands that MBT thinks Kaman is better than Haywood

Consider the trade deadline next season. Mavs wouldn't be able to move Haywood with two seasons and $15M left. But an expiring $8M is attractive to potential trade partners. Kaman's contract will become a trade chip and that is why he's here.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by |_Jeff_|

Consider the trade deadline next season. Mavs wouldn't be able to move Haywood with two seasons and $15M left. But an expiring $8M is attractive to potential trade partners. Kaman's contract will become a trade chip and that is why he's here.

Right, because he can't be a better player AND a valuable trade asset - it has to be one or the other...

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by |_Jeff_|

Not true. MBT thought Haywood was worth $55M over 6 years in 2010. They thought Kaman was worth $8M over one year in 2012, with part of that value as an expiring contract.

The amnesty of Haywood and signing of Kaman was about financial flexibility, not roster upgrade. Who's the better player? Doesn't matter. This was a salary cap chess move in the pursuit of a superstar free agent in the future - trade deadline or summer 2013.

Actually, it does matter. The FO had the ability to amnesty Haywood at any time. They wanted a significant upgrade at the position with a good contract and they made the choice to go with Kaman. Haywood played with zero heart last year. How anyone, and I do mean anyone, can attempt to gloss over that seemingly obvious factor is truly beyond me. There are only two superstar free agent centers that may be available over the next several years, so going with two tried and tested bigs who both have unique talents to bring to the table wasn't just about cap space, it was about competing this coming season. According to your logic, there should have been plenty of interest in Haywood after he was amnestied. There wasn't. He's now in basketball hell. Kaman had interest from several teams, but wanted to be here. Regardless of what cherry-picked stats one can come up with, there isn't one for heart and effort, although those usually show up throughout a stat line. Kaman wants to play here and Haywood stole money last year. We don't need guys here who are apathetic, regardless of how well they interview or how likable they seem to be off the court. Haywood did this to himself. He earned every bit of it.

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by dude1394

We actually do not know that. We know that the mbt thinks Kaman's one year contract is worth more than Haywood's 3years. That's really about all we " know"

So, Kaman making 8 mil this year and Haywood making 8 mil this year yet MBT decided to dump Haywood and sign Kaman. I dont see where the other 2 years matter since they could just amnesty Haywood next year if they thought he was better than Kaman this year.

[roadrunner]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I don't think,he's being ridiculous. Haywood would have had to be amnestied after the season. Kaman can be traded this year as an expiring. If they wanted to do something this season someone would have had to tak all of woods contract.

Right, because Haywood is not worth 8 mil a year, but Kaman is worth that.

[ribosoma]

Originally Posted by |_Jeff_|

Consider the trade deadline next season. Mavs wouldn't be able to move Haywood with two seasons and $15M left. But an expiring $8M is attractive to potential trade partners. Kaman's contract will become a trade chip and that is why he's here.

And the reason why the Mavs wouldn't be able to move Haywood's contract is...

wait for it...

because he absolutely sucked last year and was replaced by a completely inexperienced, undersized project player.

If the Mavs and the rest of the league thought that Haywood was equal to or better than Kaman (which, I am fairly certain, was your original point), wouldn't they have held onto him?

[ribosoma]

http://www.foxsportssouthwest.com/07...blockID=760566

And on Friday morning, it became official that Dallas had added another piece to their roster for the upcoming season in veteran big man Chris Kaman, who had spent last season in New Orleans. The Mavs inked the big Michigan native to just a one-year deal, but the man calling the shots on the Dallas bench was pretty pleased to see his club add such an accomplished big man to his roster as Kaman this week.

"Well, he's a terrific low post scorer. He's a very good midrange shooter for a seven-footer. I don't think we've ever had a center here that can step out and shoot the 18-foot shot consistently that's been the caliber of player that Chris Kaman is," Carlisle said.

The Mavs head coach also likes the fact that Kaman and Dirk Nowitzki have a history of playing together with the German national team since Kaman has due U.S. and German citizenship and realizes such chemistry should pay big dividends in the coming season.

"Sometimes Dirk's the tallest guy for us but he's always the four in our system. He's never been able to play with a five man that shoots it like that," Carlisle said. "Those are a couple of the reasons [why we love Kaman]. We just feel like he's a guy that is a great kid. He and Dirk have played together and they've played well together and we like him for our franchise."