12-13-2023, 06:36 PM
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#1
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,255
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Lively changes everything.
Our other additions are nice, but if that guy keeps improving, then we're pretty legit. Some of the things he does on defense is shocking for a 19 year old.
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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12-13-2023, 07:51 PM
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#2
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,086
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His defense is so raw. He really needs to improve and had a lot of room to.
That said, it?s been 13 years since we?ve had someone so skilled and with that much potential. Since I started watching in 2000, we?ve had someone like him once? in 2011.
Love his energy and personality. Love that Kidd trusts him. Love watching him improve.
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12-13-2023, 08:49 PM
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#3
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
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In the last 5 games he's snagged 16 rebounds twice. I'd like to see him average double digit rebs per this season.
Having a mobile athletic center changes things a lot. When he catches lobs, it ignites the team and crowd. Huge momentum plays while not having the ball that much. Its crazy to think that we have gone 12 years without this type of big when our franchise played its best basketball ever with one.
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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12-13-2023, 11:14 PM
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#4
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,255
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Really don't think Lively is that raw on defense. Sure, he makes rookie mistakes, but he has high IQ stuff like the way he defended Lebron attacking the rim. He always has his hands in the cookie jar with regards to knowing where the ball is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuLt...l=FLHighlights
Does things defensively that 10 year vets don't do.
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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12-13-2023, 11:36 PM
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#5
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Really don't think Lively is that raw on defense. Sure, he makes rookie mistakes, but he has high IQ stuff like the way he defended Lebron attacking the rim. He always has his hands in the cookie jar with regards to knowing where the ball is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuLt...l=FLHighlights
Does things defensively that 10 year vets don't do.
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Agreed. Maybe He is raw compared to what he will be in 3-5 years, but he is already looking like he has been around that long compared to most other rookies. He switches well and provides intelligent help while protecting the rim as a default.
Hell, I wondered how many Luka and Kyrie passes would bounce off his dome as a rookie but nope, he has hit the ground running here. It looks like he has been playing with this group for a few seasons.
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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12-14-2023, 11:13 AM
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#6
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,086
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See I think it's the opposite.
Rebounding - he's just so big and active, but he's raw. Weirdly enough he could learn blocking out from Powell. So many times guys just blow around him for a rebound. He also gets bullied a lot for rebounds which is more about size than fundamentals.
Defense - He makes great decisions sometimes and he's mature for 19, but he still struggles to be an impact-maker. His man's FG% at the rim is really high. He could also be much more effective as the help man. Again some of it is his weight/strength. A lot more of it is his attitude-- he's been told to avoid fouls so he's playing a lot of games avoiding contact, but he has to learn how to get up on guys and block shots without a foul.
For now it's good-- fewer fouls mean that he can stay out there (and god knows that we struggle when he's on the bench for fouls), but he has a long way to go to live up to his potential. Then again, he's solid now and the fact that he's far from h is potential just shows how good he could be.
Last edited by EricaLubarsky; 12-14-2023 at 11:14 AM.
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12-14-2023, 12:26 PM
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#7
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
Really don't think Lively is that raw on defense. Sure, he makes rookie mistakes, but he has high IQ stuff like the way he defended Lebron attacking the rim. He always has his hands in the cookie jar with regards to knowing where the ball is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuLt...l=FLHighlights
Does things defensively that 10 year vets don't do.
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Watching that live was so fun. He's going to be a good one.
I still want a solid to plus 4 option and maybe even a 4/5 hybrid like Isaiah Stweart. I know they just re-upped him, but curious if interested in a trade or at the very least, the kind of guy I'm talking about.
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12-14-2023, 01:21 PM
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#8
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saclare
Watching that live was so fun. He's going to be a good one.
I still want a solid to plus 4 option and maybe even a 4/5 hybrid like Isaiah Stweart. I know they just re-upped him, but curious if interested in a trade or at the very least, the kind of guy I'm talking about.
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I agree, but in the interim, I hope Morris and Omax keep filling in.
I'm somewhat concerned about Maxi coming back. Guy just doesn't have anything left.
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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12-14-2023, 02:19 PM
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#9
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
I agree, but in the interim, I hope Morris and Omax keep filling in.
I'm somewhat concerned about Maxi coming back. Guy just doesn't have anything left.
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I hope Maxi doesnt come back.
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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12-14-2023, 02:56 PM
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#10
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Bee Cave, Texas
Posts: 3,248
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I think it is awesome that Tyson Chandler is mentoring and coaching him.
Lively has great hands and decision making and is such an improvement over Powell it's laughable.
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12-14-2023, 03:08 PM
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#11
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirt_dobber
I think it is awesome that Tyson Chandler is mentoring and coaching him.
Lively has great hands and decision making and is such an improvement over Powell it's laughable.
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And Tyson owes the franchise absolutely nothing after the way the FO treated him. So for him to be here says a lot.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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12-14-2023, 03:18 PM
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#12
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
And Tyson owes the franchise absolutely nothing after the way the FO treated him. So for him to be here says a lot.
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Funny I just told someone today its nothing short of a miracle he's even here after what Cuban did to him twice. We are lucky to have him mentoring Lively.
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12-14-2023, 04:10 PM
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#13
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,475
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I still think Lively is the key piece to keeping Luka in Dallas.
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12-14-2023, 05:34 PM
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#14
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,086
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Stickied because he does
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12-18-2023, 12:15 AM
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#15
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11,831
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Lively out vs Denver. Good win vs blazers. This one will be an uphill battle
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12-18-2023, 08:57 AM
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#16
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Guru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
Lively out vs Denver. Good win vs blazers. This one will be an uphill battle
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We need to let Jokic go 1v1 and not double. We cant afford to let him get everyone else going. It is a huge uphill battle but we are going to be in trouble ifnwe are scrambling after wide ipen 3 pt shooters because he is slinging it all over the court. Id rsther him score 50 on Powell than 35/16/15
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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12-18-2023, 09:43 AM
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#17
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC0007
We need to let Jokic go 1v1 and not double. We cant afford to let him get everyone else going. It is a huge uphill battle but we are going to be in trouble ifnwe are scrambling after wide ipen 3 pt shooters because he is slinging it all over the court. Id rsther him score 50 on Powell than 35/16/15
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1v1 against who Powell? Good luck with that.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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12-18-2023, 11:19 AM
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#18
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart
1v1 against who Powell? Good luck with that.
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Doesnt matter who, they're getting killed without Lively. I think it will be worse trying to trap and double, though.
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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12-18-2023, 12:55 PM
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#19
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC0007
Doesnt matter who, they're getting killed without Lively. I think it will be worse trying to trap and double, though.
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I'd go bold and start Omax at center so they can be mobile for doubling. You're right though we're screwed either way.
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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12-18-2023, 08:05 PM
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#20
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11,831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMC0007
We need to let Jokic go 1v1 and not double. We cant afford to let him get everyone else going. It is a huge uphill battle but we are going to be in trouble ifnwe are scrambling after wide ipen 3 pt shooters because he is slinging it all over the court. Id rsther him score 50 on Powell than 35/16/15
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Jokic will do what he wants. There?s no stopping him
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12-18-2023, 08:57 PM
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#21
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: uranus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melonhead
Jokic will do what he wants. There?s no stopping him
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Yup
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you just proofed how stupid you are - CRAZYBOY
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12-18-2023, 10:08 PM
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#22
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,086
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Holmes sick and Lively injured
50% minutes with Powell 6?10?
29% of minutes with Morris 6?9?
21% of minutes with DJJ at center who is 6?6? in shoes
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12-21-2023, 05:49 PM
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#23
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,086
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12-23-2023, 03:49 PM
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#24
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,086
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@GrantAfseth
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3h
The Dallas Mavericks are now 0-5 without Dereck Lively II, giving up an average of 121.2 points and facing an average margin defeat of 18.2 points.
Lively Out: 0-5
Lively Plays: 16-7
Lively + Doncic Plays: 16-6
Lively + Irving Plays: 10-5
Lively + Doncic + Irving Plays: 10-4
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12-23-2023, 05:51 PM
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#25
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
@GrantAfseth
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3h
The Dallas Mavericks are now 0-5 without Dereck Lively II, giving up an average of 121.2 points and facing an average margin defeat of 18.2 points.
Lively Out: 0-5
Lively Plays: 16-7
Lively + Doncic Plays: 16-6
Lively + Irving Plays: 10-5
Lively + Doncic + Irving Plays: 10-4
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I love Afseth (best person covering the Mavs), but that is way too simple and feels excusey for the real issue that is Kidd. Hiding behind injuries is what the FO and coach do best.
I guess it's just an obvious observation that you need your best players to win, but we are crash and burning come playoff/play in time if the defense and rebounding isn't fixed. Defense is putrid just about every single game so far.
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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01-16-2024, 04:24 PM
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#26
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,255
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__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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02-12-2024, 03:44 PM
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#27
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,086
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Happy 20th birthday to Lively.
Can't even drink but he can dominate the paint.
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03-03-2024, 11:02 AM
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#28
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 1,046
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
Happy 20th birthday to Lively.
Can't even drink but he can dominate the paint.
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Yes. Happy birthday to Lively.
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04-15-2024, 11:49 AM
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#29
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,865
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any update on lively's status for the playoffs?
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05-20-2024, 05:20 AM
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#30
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Member
Join Date: May 2018
Location: 25,000 light years from center of Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobay
any update on lively's status for the playoffs?
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Playoff update: Double double in a closeout game at age 20.
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05-20-2024, 01:14 PM
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#31
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,086
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Lively loses out to Wemby for all-rookie first team center.
D-Live selected all-rookie second team.
Congrats, big boy. Your mom would be proud.
Last edited by EricaLubarsky; 05-20-2024 at 01:16 PM.
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05-20-2024, 02:32 PM
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#32
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky
Lively loses out to Wemby for all-rookie first team center.
D-Live selected all-rookie second team.
Congrats, big boy. Your mom would be proud.
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Position do not matter, NBA thinks he's at best the 6th best rookie.
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05-20-2024, 02:41 PM
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#33
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd Karma
Position do not matter, NBA thinks he's at best the 6th best rookie.
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I was gonna say, he got more love for all rookie team than Doncic did for MVP.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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05-20-2024, 05:31 PM
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#34
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 13,212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd Karma
Position do not matter, NBA thinks he's at best the 6th best rookie.
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To be fair, it is a regular season award.
Lively was 23rd in games played
13th in minutes per game
13th in points
10th in regular season +/-
3rd in rebounds (but it was only 6.9 per game so hardly an eye catcher)
1st in field goal percentage
It is a tribute that voters NOTICIED that the kid was a stud despite some mediocre stats.
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/tr...dir=A&sort=PTS
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05-21-2024, 08:15 AM
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#35
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,865
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05-31-2024, 01:09 PM
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#36
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,865
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Dereck Lively Wasn't Supposed to Be THIS GOOD Already...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlcepZ0eqTE
Lively on the floor
Ortg - 120.6
Drtg - 105.2
Net rating = +15.4
Lively off the floor
Ortg - 111.8
Drtg - 116.7
Net rating = -4.9
Per 75 possessions - (average just over 100 possessions/NBA game), so maybe roughly equivalent to per 36 minutes
15.5 pts
12.9 reb
2.0 blk
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05-31-2024, 01:32 PM
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#37
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,086
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoobay
Dereck Lively Wasn't Supposed to Be THIS GOOD Already...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlcepZ0eqTE
Lively on the floor
Ortg - 120.6
Drtg - 105.2
Net rating = +15.4
Lively off the floor
Ortg - 111.8
Drtg - 116.7
Net rating = -4.9
Per 75 possessions - (average just over 100 possessions/NBA game), so maybe roughly equivalent to per 36 minutes
15.5 pts
12.9 reb
2.0 blk
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We don't get Luka his first finals appearance without tanking a couple of games.
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06-01-2024, 04:51 PM
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#38
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Inactive.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 43,086
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Weird stats
Lively (16) has more playoff games played than KP (14)
Lively broke a record of 14 consecutive makes when he went 16-16 on FGA against Minny
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06-01-2024, 05:00 PM
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#39
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: New Mexico Mountains
Posts: 2,399
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Is there a Mavs fan anywhere who would rather have Porzingis on this team than Lively? DL isn't stretching the floor like KP can, but in every other way he is a better center and better teammate.
It doesn't help that both he and Brunson were so badly coached and misused by Rick Carlisle. He had the parts to make a much better team but didn't know how to use them.
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Last edited by G-Man; 06-01-2024 at 05:01 PM.
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06-15-2024, 08:13 AM
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#40
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Enemy territory (SA)
Posts: 3,310
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I truly can't believe the league let us get Lively. He's going to be the second best center in league for a decade+.
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