Poll: Poll: Nash or Bibby? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Hales233 · 05-29-2002, 03:19 PM

Bibby.

Mavy · 05-29-2002, 04:00 PM

That's a tough one....I think I take Nash though...Bibby is hot right now but I think Nash is more consistent.

ArcticBlast · 05-29-2002, 04:04 PM

Nash.

He was worn out this playoffs and Bibby wasn't. I've seen Bibby play all regular season, and he seldom had games even close to what he's had in the playoffs.

Mavy · 05-29-2002, 04:16 PM

<< I've seen Bibby play all regular season, and he seldom had games even close to what he's had in the playoffs. >>

On the other hand I would rather have a guy that shows up when it counts. Wouldn't you? It's a tough one. I'd like to see Nash play better in the playoffs next year. Being worn out isn't a good excuse. You have all summer to rest.

Hoopsmeister · 05-29-2002, 04:20 PM

Nash--when he's healthy.

Bibby is playing great right now and as already discussed on the other thread seems much more durable than Nash, which is important.

During the season, though, when Nash was at the top of his game, Nash ate Bibby alive. Even the one game we won in the Sacramento series was because Nash managed to look like his old self for one game.

Murphy3 · 05-29-2002, 04:20 PM

once again, you're taking way too much from one post season.
nash has always been a clutch player...he loves having the ball when it counts.
that's a totally invalid argument

ArcticBlast · 05-29-2002, 04:48 PM

<< On the other hand I would rather have a guy that shows up when it counts. Wouldn't you? >>

On the other hand, I doubt that Bibby had to play as much during the regular season and therefore was not as worn out.

I'm not making an excuse. I'm using that as part of my judgement of which player is actually better.

DirkNash1341 · 05-29-2002, 05:08 PM

No questoin at all. Nash is better, plain and simple. Bibby is playing the best basketball of his life right now and it's only as good as Nash when he is playing well. Sure, he's more durable, but Nash is better. Like Murph said, you are all basing entirely too much on these last two series'.

Hales233 · 05-29-2002, 06:59 PM

<< Nash. He was worn out this playoffs and Bibby wasn't. I've seen Bibby play all regular season, and he seldom had games even close to what he's had in the playoffs. >>

I'm sorry AB, but that's one of the craziest things I've ever heard. It's not Bibby's fault Nash is worn out! Don't give me that crap....And Bibby had a great regular season, I don't know what games you saw.

And even if he didn't, who cares! He's doing it now, when it counts. This is the playoffs baby!! Would you rather have a player step up during the season or in the WCF?

Hales233 · 05-29-2002, 07:02 PM

<<Bibby is playing the best basketball of his life right now.>>

Um, you might want to also check out his leading 'Zona to the Nat'l Championship as a FRESHMAN.

<<Like Murph said, you are all basing entirely too much on these last two series'. >>

Yeah man, you're right...I mean, it's only the Western Conference Finals, who cares about that...We need to start basing everything on the pre-season baby. That's where it all counts!!

KEVIN_NY · 05-29-2002, 07:07 PM

NASH.

ArcticBlast · 05-29-2002, 08:23 PM

<< It's not Bibby's fault Nash is worn out! >>

You're going to have to show me where I said that it was Bibby's FAULT that Nash was worn out?

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I'll rephrase what I said so that you might understand it a little better:

Nash was worn out during the playoffs so he didn't play as well.

Bibby has been playing very well this playoffs, but he doesn't usually play that well. He plays well, but not THAT well. And not as well as Steve, in my opinion.

SO, judging from how they both play *overall* as opposed to *just* the playoffs, I want Nash on my team.

Dallas_Star · 05-29-2002, 08:32 PM

I think that having Bobby Jackson helps Bibby out alot. Jackson was a solid back-up last year and in some occasions played more than J-Will. Nash had Hardaway for half the season. Hardaway, who is a still effective but past his time, is no where near as good a back up as Jackson. If Nash had had NVE all season he may not have been as weary near the end. I think that next year, if we keep NVE and have him come off the bench to give Nash a solid rotation of resting minutes, Nash will be more fresh and on top of his game near the end of the season and into the playoffs.

ArcticBlast · 05-29-2002, 08:35 PM

Exactly my point, DS.

reeds · 05-29-2002, 08:39 PM

Before the playoffs started- I said Nash. Well, I was wrong..BIBBY easy!! He is doing it all.

For a pure scorer, its Nash. But- for all around guard play- Bibby is my pic

Drbio · 05-29-2002, 08:57 PM

seems like we just discussed this in another thread.

Hales233 · 05-29-2002, 09:09 PM

Nash has NVE.

ArcticBlast · 05-29-2002, 09:12 PM

<< Nash has NVE. >>

This has already been mentioned:

<< If Nash had had NVE all season he may not have been as weary near the end. >>

And, once he *did* get there, Nellie usually had them both in at the same time.

Hales233 · 05-29-2002, 09:15 PM

That doesn't mean he's better than Bibby.

ArcticBlast · 05-29-2002, 09:43 PM

If Bibby plays anywhere near as well next regular season as he has this postseason, he might be equal to Steve. Let's not overexadurate Bibby's game just because it's been exceptional this postseason.

Mavy · 05-29-2002, 09:59 PM

ArticBlast you may be the biggest homer I have ever seen. Bibby puts his college team on his shoulders in crunch time and now is doing it with the Kings. I think that is a sign that maybe he is a big time clutch performer something Nash has yet to prove, tired or not...I luve Nash and think he can be a clutch player but the more I think about it right now I would have to go with Bibby...

ArcticBlast · 05-29-2002, 10:02 PM

<< ArticBlast you may be the biggest homer I have ever seen. >>

Let's stop with the personal attacks right now, okay? My opinions are not based on what team someone plays for. Even if they WERE, the Kings are my second favorite team. Bibby is good, but I don't think he's as good as Nash. I'm entitled to my opinion, thanks.

Hoopsmeister · 05-29-2002, 11:56 PM

<< Bibby puts his college team on his shoulders in crunch time and now is doing it with the Kings. I think that is a sign that maybe he is a big time clutch performer something Nash has yet to prove, tired or not... >>

And in between he spent 3 years in Vancouver doing absolutely nothing. And then spent this last season having a good season but not doing anything to show that he was more important to the Kings than Doug Christie--who is a good player and an important piece of a championship contender but will never see an All-Star game and is probably the 5th best player on his team.

Bibby has had 2 very impressive series and in doing so has raised his stock considerably. But its one playoff run--Austin Croshere anyone? It is too early to say whether this is the true Bibby making his way on to the all-star stage or a good player having a fantastic run. Yes, he's clutch--but Robert Horry is also clutch and he's still just a role-player.

Hales233 · 05-30-2002, 07:58 AM

Comparing Austin Croshere to Mike Bibby? Oh man Hoops I thought you were much smarter than that. Croshere never led a team the same way Bibby has anyhow, so that's a BAD comparison.

And to bring up Vancouver...silly again. If Nash had been there, the team would have sucked every bit as much.

Not a homer AB? LMFAO [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img].

Murphy3 · 05-30-2002, 08:07 AM

i dont' think hoops is trying to say they are the same quality of players.. simply drawing a parrallel

kg_veteran · 05-30-2002, 09:20 AM

<< Comparing Austin Croshere to Mike Bibby? Oh man Hoops I thought you were much smarter than that. Croshere never led a team the same way Bibby has anyhow, so that's a BAD comparison. >>

It's actually a good comparison, and one that I've made recently, from the standpoint that Croshere had one really nice playoff run, and suddenly was proclaimed Indiana's next big star. The guy got a huge contract because everyone overreacted to his playoff performance.

Now I'm not saying Bibby's not a good player, I'm simply saying that Bibby put up pretty average stats during the regular season, and suddenly he's playing out of his mind in this playoff run. Will he be able to sustain that and become a stud next year (something he wasn't during the regular season this year), or will he revert to putting up 5 assists a game again, and being just another guy for Sacramento? Only time will tell, and it's a knee jerk reaction to say that he's better than Nash based on his playoff performance this year...

Hales233 · 05-30-2002, 09:29 AM

He's not gonna be like Croshere and ride the pine next season.

Bank on that!

jacktruth · 05-30-2002, 10:12 AM

Bibby over Nash.

One reason. Nash does not finish drives to the Basket. If he drives, just cover the passing lanes and it's a turnover. Basically the one reason is half-cour offense. Nash is great transition point guard, but Bibby a much better half-court player.

Bibby also plays better D.

Murphy3 · 05-30-2002, 10:29 AM

Nash has been very effective going to the basket.

MavKikiNYC · 05-30-2002, 10:50 AM

Nash is up 13-2.

Looks like Nellie will haveta keep him around a bit longer.

Murphy3 · 05-30-2002, 10:51 AM

as high as nash's 2 pt percentage and as much as he drives, it makes little sense to say that he does not finish well

kg_veteran · 05-30-2002, 12:09 PM

<< He's not gonna be like Croshere and ride the pine next season.

Bank on that! >>

He also may not be much above average next year during the regular season.

And every GM in the NBA would still rather have Nash. Bank on that.

Drbio · 05-30-2002, 12:25 PM

dead on kg!

Hoopsmeister · 05-30-2002, 12:51 PM

<< Comparing Austin Croshere to Mike Bibby? Oh man Hoops I thought you were much smarter than that. Croshere never led a team the same way Bibby has anyhow, so that's a BAD comparison. >>

I'm not comparing Bibby to Croshere. I'm using Croshere as a well-known example of the type of guy who litters NBA rosters--a decent player who has a great playoff run, or a great contract year, or both, has expectations on him go through the roof only to have them come back to earth the next year.

No, Bibby won't be riding the pine next year. He will be the Kings starting point guard. But the big question is will he continue his play from this contract year playoff run or will he go back to being what he was all season long: an effective, steady, and unspectacular point guard who averages 13.5 pts on 45% shooting (37% from 3 pt) and 5 assists? Those are the numbers of a good roleplayer, they are not numbers that will get him a single all-star vote much less make him worth trading for an all-star.

<< And to bring up Vancouver...silly again. If Nash had been there, the team would have sucked every bit as much. >>

Maybe. But Vancouver wasn't just bad. They were awful. The Bulls were their only competition for the league's cellar. Over 3 years, they never won more than 22 games. You would think that if Bibby is really that good that he could have combined with Abdur-Rahim to at least get them to 29 wins (Andre Miller's accomplishment in Cleveland without anybody else at all).

You can play what if about Nash in Vancouver all you want, but the fact is that Bibby was the point guard of the worst team in the league for 3 years and has to take some of the responsibility for that. He was young, he's improving and he may indeed have made a leap this postseason that will carry over and make him an elite point guard next year. But he's going to have to show it over more than 14 games before it outweighs 4 years of mediocrity.

<< Not a homer AB? LMFAO [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]. >>

The point is, its irrelevenat whether AB is a homer or not. She has actually made an argument so address the argument, not try to invalidate it with simple ad hominems.

PeterVecseyisdumb · 05-30-2002, 02:34 PM

Everyone who is kneejerking about bibby, might want to look at derek fisher, right now. Fisher made just about every shot he took last year, in the playoffs. Fisher has played much worse in the regular season, this year. Fisher has played bad in the playoffs, this year. Bibby is on a hot streak, right now. Bibby has played about 14 games in the playoffs, this year. Bibby played about 82 regular season games, this year. Bibby's stats in the regular season, were good, not great. Let's see how bibby responds, next season, when he is supposed to play 82 more games.

ArcticBlast · 05-30-2002, 05:15 PM

<< The point is, its irrelevenat whether AB is a homer or not. She has actually made an argument so address the argument, not try to invalidate it with simple ad hominems. >>

Exactly.

And disagreeing with you does NOT make me a homer. I would disagree with you whether I was a Mavs fan or not. Bibby has been a monster this playoffs, yes. Nash had a sub par playoffs, yes. If Bibby plays near where he's played in the postseason during the regular season, by the stats, he will be equal to Nash. I happen to agree with the stats in this case because of what I have seen during the regular and post season games. And, though I've watches more Mavs games, since it was questions which games I was watching, I've watched about 20 regular season Kings games that were from the middle of the season to the end and I listened to about 30 on audio league pass.

Also, there is the Big Three chemistry that I would not break up for the world. I think that that chemistry matched with Steve having a decent back up PG will win them a lot of playoff games next year.

I respect your opinions, Hales, even with the name calling. I simply don't agree with them and I thought that this board was for debating such disagreements to learn more about the game and the team.

Hales233 · 06-14-2002, 12:51 PM

the results of this poll are so funny...i showed my friends this and they are cracking up! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

Base Line Guy · 06-14-2002, 12:53 PM

Nash!

BLG

Murphy3 · 06-14-2002, 01:20 PM

why are they funny hales?
because some people aren't willing to give up a steve nash ( a guy that has been very solid for 2.5 years) for a guy that has had one good playoff run and nothing else that's comparable to what nash has done?

Hales233 · 06-14-2002, 01:29 PM

bibby won a nat'l title as a freshman...he hasn't done anything? sure murph.

stick nash on memphis for the past few years and tell me how great they'd be...i'd love to hear this one.