Would you trade Dirk for Oden? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Purple&Gold · 05-22-2007, 03:51 PM

This debate is hypothetical.

but its very hard to say no what do you guys think?

dalmations202 · 05-22-2007, 03:54 PM

nope...... bird in hand is worth two in the bush

dude1394 · 05-22-2007, 03:55 PM

If you want to go into the lottery next year.

Flacolaco · 05-22-2007, 03:56 PM

Does he have more MVP's than Dirk?

alexamenos · 05-22-2007, 04:00 PM

ummm....

......well.

it wouldn't be an easy thing to do, nor fun. i'd know there will be a good chance i'd look like an incredible fool one day down the line.

still....Bill Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Timmah....rings, rings, rings, rings....

Great interior big men = NBA championships.

oden might be a great interior big man -- you trade anything for a chance at one of these.

jthig32 · 05-22-2007, 04:00 PM

Come on people, we can do better than this.

Purple&Gold · 05-22-2007, 04:00 PM

C: Oden
PF:
SF: Josh
SG:
PG: Harris

All we need is to fill the 2 spots.

jthig32 · 05-22-2007, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple&Gold

C: Oden
PF:
SF: Josh
SG:
PG: Harris

All we need is to fill the 2 spots.

To what, make the 8th seed?

dirno2000 · 05-22-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

ummm....

......well.

it wouldn't be an easy thing to do, nor fun. i'd know there will be a good chance i'd look like an incredible fool one day down the line.

still....Bill Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Timmah....rings, rings, rings, rings....

Great interior big men = NBA championships.

oden might be a great interior big man -- you trade anything for a chance at one of these.

That's what I was thinking. A dominating center is almost guaranteed to win a ring at some point in his career. The only expection I can think of is Ewing.

I'm not sure if Oden is that good but even if it's a 50/50 shot then you have to give it some serious thought.

jthig32 · 05-22-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

ummm....

......well.

it wouldn't be an easy thing to do, nor fun. i'd know there will be a good chance i'd look like an incredible fool one day down the line.

still....Bill Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Timmah....rings, rings, rings, rings....

Great interior big men = NBA championships.

oden might be a great interior big man -- you trade anything for a chance at one of these.

The key word in there is might.

jthig32 · 05-22-2007, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

That's what I was thinking. A dominating center is almost guaranteed to win a ring at some point in his career. The only expection I can think of is Ewing.

I'm not sure if Oden is that good but even if it's a 50/50 shot then you have to give it some serious thought.

You really think it's a 50/50 shot that Oden is a HOF center?

LonghornDub · 05-22-2007, 04:06 PM

Who in the hell would trade an MVP in his prime for a player who hasn't played 1 second in the NBA?

Lunacy.

DubOverdose · 05-22-2007, 04:06 PM

I would in 3 years if Dirk still doesn't have a ring.

Purple&Gold · 05-22-2007, 04:12 PM

Jthig getting Oden sets this franchise for another 8-10 years.

alexamenos · 05-22-2007, 04:15 PM

yeah, if the mavs traded Dirk straight up for Oden next year they'd take a step back.

but then again oden will be....what, probably 20 years old next year???? i'm thinking that's 15 great years of mavs b-ball right there.

Wilt was in his late 30's and playing 40+ minutes per game when he won his last championship. Kareem was a huge presence on championship teams in his 40's. Tim Duncan, like Bill Russell, will be weighed down by his rings before age catches up with him. Shaq just got fat and proud of himself, but he could be a force for years to come if he wasn't such an idiot.

I love Dirk -- seriously, I'd happily handle his man-grooming issues if it'd get him a ring.....but when it comes to really, really great big men -- i mean paint clogging, board hammering, post your ass up big men -- there are no comparisons.

A great big man >>>>> anything else

these things aren't even close.

jthig32 · 05-22-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple&Gold

Jthig getting Oden sets this franchise for another 8-10 years.

You THINK.

Oden could EASILY just be an above average center for 10 years.

It's a ridiculous question, imo.

alexamenos · 05-22-2007, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

That's what I was thinking. A dominating center is almost guaranteed to win a ring at some point in his career. The only expection I can think of is Ewing.

I'm not sure if Oden is that good but even if it's a 50/50 shot then you have to give it some serious thought.

And Ewing had the misfortune of playing through the prime of his career at the same time the single greatest player to ever walk the earth was teamed with another top 50 all-time great player.

at the least -- i'd bet a nickle that whoever gets the number 1 overall will not trade it for anything....anything.

dude1394 · 05-22-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

yeah, if the mavs traded Dirk straight up for Oden next year they'd take a step back.

but then again oden will be....what, probably 20 years old next year???? i'm thinking that's 15 great years of mavs b-ball right there.

Wilt was in his late 30's and playing 40+ minutes per game when he won his last championship. Kareem was a huge presence on championship teams in his 40's. Tim Duncan, like Bill Russell, will be weighed down by his rings before age catches up with him. Shaq just got fat and proud of himself, but he could be a force for years to come if he wasn't such an idiot.

I love Dirk -- seriously, I'd happily handle his man-grooming issues if it'd get him a ring.....but when it comes to really, really great big men -- i mean paint clogging, board hammering, post your ass up big men -- there are no comparisons.

A great big man >>>>> anything else

these things aren't even close.

Ralph Sampson

fluid.forty.one · 05-22-2007, 04:19 PM

I must be missing something. Greg Oden is 7 feet tall right?

Isn't Diop 7 feet tall? Isn't Dampier?

I know Oden is better offensively than them especially once his hand heals, but just being BIG doesn't mean you're great.

jthig32 · 05-22-2007, 04:21 PM

I can't believe the hype around Oden has gotten to the point that people are just assuming he's the next HOF center. Unreal.

Alex, I assure you, there are at least 10 players in this league that if you took the salary restrictions away, the #1 pick would be traded for.

dalmations202 · 05-22-2007, 04:24 PM

Yao is a dominating big man.
Candy Man was as dominating big man in college.
KGarnett was the dominating game changing big man.
David Robinson was the new big man -- that didn't make it till he was paired with Duncan.
Ewing was a dominating big.
Mourning was a dominating big -- that didn't make it till paired with Shaq.
Deke and Bradley dominating bigs.

Just to name a few.

Dirk is a dominating big -- just with a different type game. He is still a 7'.

Oden could be something, or he could be a bust, or anywhere in between.

alexamenos · 05-22-2007, 04:29 PM

i'm just saying....you wanna build a multi-ring winning dynasty....

.......you start with a dominant big man.

oden is the best bigman prospect to come around since duncan.

alexamenos · 05-22-2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Yao is a dominating big man.
Candy Man was as dominating big man in college.
KGarnett was the dominating game changing big man.
David Robinson was the new big man -- that didn't make it till he was paired with Duncan.
Ewing was a dominating big.
Mourning was a dominating big -- that didn't make it till paired with Shaq.
Deke and Bradley dominating bigs.

.....

this is precisely what I don't agree with -- not all big men were created equal, and not all are equally regarded. This is akin to saying "alot of people said great things about a variety of small forwards, thus how can we reasonably predict success for Lebron James."

Of that list, Ewing is the only one that garned or deserved the same sort of hype that Oden is getting, and his career wasn't exactly a bust.

And there's a reason why guys like Olawakandi and Bradley went so high -- basketball people know what a team has to have to be great, and they rolled the dice. That some have failed is not necessarily a reason to avoid taking a risk.

nashtymavsfan13 · 05-22-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProdigyDub

Who in the hell would trade an MVP in his prime for a player who hasn't played 1 second in the NBA?

Lunacy.

Exactly. Trading a guy that just won MVP for a big man that MIGHT be the next great thing is still not worth it because of the gamble. It is quite a gamble, and not worth it when we already have a team on the verge of a championship.

alexamenos · 05-22-2007, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

Exactly. Trading a guy that just won MVP for a big man that MIGHT be the next great thing is still not worth it because of the gamble. It is quite a gamble, and not worth it when we already have a team on the verge of a championship.

this is where I believe you have to weigh the risk v. the reward....

....HOF guard or forward = playoff success that might rival Tracy McGrady's;

....HOF Center = decade of dominance.

Basketball is now, always has been and shall always be a big man's game played in the paint. The reward for landing a great center is so great that few risks are not worth taking.

jthig32 · 05-22-2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

this is where I believe you have to weigh the risk v. the reward....

....HOF guard or forward = playoff success that might rival Tracy McGrady's;

....HOF Center = decade of dominance.

Basketball is now, always has been and shall always be a big man's game played in the paint. The reward for landing a great center is so great that few risks are not worth taking.

Might rival Tracy McGrady's????

Are you being serious with that?

TripleDipping · 05-22-2007, 04:48 PM

I'm not ready to give up on Dirk yet. Giving up your MVP for a POTENTIAL great player is a bad move.

alexamenos · 05-22-2007, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Might rival Tracy McGrady's????

Are you being serious with that?

yes --

i'm saying that you could gamble on a guard, subsequently find out that he really is a great guard, and then exit the first round on a fairly consistent basis.

on the other hand if you gamble on a big man and hit a home run you're a perennial contender...

jthig32 · 05-22-2007, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

yes --

i'm saying that you could gamble on a guard, subsequently find out that he really is a great guard, and then exit the first round on a fairly consistent basis.

on the other hand if you gamble on a big man and hit a home run you're a perennial contender...

Ok, but we're not faced with a risk like that. We have a superstar.

And you just don't trade a player like Dirk for that kind of risk.

sike · 05-22-2007, 05:00 PM

i feel dumber having read this...

dirno2000 · 05-22-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

You really think it's a 50/50 shot that Oden is a HOF center?

I do. I wouldn't have said that halfway through the season but he showed me a lot when he put up 25 in the biggest game of his career. I think he has a chance to be a good offensive center. Defensively I don't think there's much doubt about his ability to be a force.

jthig32 · 05-22-2007, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I do. I wouldn't have said that halfway through the season but he showed me a lot when he put up 25 in the biggest game of his career. I think he has a chance to be a good offensive center. Defensively I don't think there's much doubt about his ability to be a force.

Well, if in your mind you think it's a 50/50 shot that he's a center along the lines of Duncan and Olajuwon, then yeah, you make that trade I think.

I think it's a 50/50 shot that he's even Alonzo Mourning, myself.

dirno2000 · 05-22-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Ok, but we're not faced with a risk like that. We have a superstar.

And you just don't trade a player like Dirk for that kind of risk.

Out of curiosity, what would you place the odds of us winning a title in the next three to four year at?

alexamenos · 05-22-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TripleDipping

I'm not ready to give up on Dirk yet. Giving up your MVP for a POTENTIAL great player is a bad move.

we're not talking about a potentially great player, we're talking about a potentially great center. According to my complex calculations, 1 potentially great center > 10 potentially great non-center players.

....and I think i'm making more of a basketball philosophical point than suggesting a mavs trade.

...i'm wondering "how much would you pay to land a potential once in a decade center?" or perhaps I'm wondering "how much would I not pay to land a potential once in a decade center."

jthig32 · 05-22-2007, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

Out of curiosity, what would you place the odds of us winning a title in the next three to four year at?

Better than the odds that Oden is a HOF center that will anchor title teams, that's for sure.

A lot better.

alexamenos · 05-22-2007, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well, if in your mind you think it's a 50/50 shot that he's a center along the lines of Duncan and Olajuwon, then yeah, you make that trade I think.

I would say 60/40 he's gonna be that good, and 40/60 that's he gonna be even better.

As good as Duncan is on the defensive end, Oden is that much more athletic.

As athletic as Olajuwon was on the offensive end, Oden is that much bigger.

it'll take a few years for him to get the offensive polish, but he's got the basics.

jthig32 · 05-22-2007, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexamenos

I would say 60/40 he's gonna be that good, and 40/60 that's he gonna be even better.

As good as Duncan is on the defensive end, Oden is that much more athletic.

As athletic as Olajuwon was on the offensive end, Oden is that much bigger.

it'll take a few years for him to get the offensive polish, but he's got the basics.

You've GOT to be kidding me.

You're putting the odds at40/60 that Greg freaking Oden is the best Center of all time?

Because that's what you're essentially saying, if you think he's going to be better than Duncan and Olajuwon.

Wow. Well yes, if you believe that, then I can understand why you'd trade Dirk for him. Hell I'd trade the entire team for him if I thought that were the case.

dirno2000 · 05-22-2007, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

Better than the odds that Oden is a HOF center that will anchor title teams, that's for sure.

A lot better.

I don't doubt that but I get the feeling that your Oden number is lower than mine. I'm just curious as to what your Mavs number is.

jthig32 · 05-22-2007, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

I don't doubt that but I get the feeling that your Oden number is lower than mine. I'm just curious as to what your Mavs number is.

Well, obviously there are lots of variables. But I certainly think Dallas will continue to be a top 4 team in the NBA for the next three or four seasons.

I don't think it's a reach to say the Mavs have a 40% chance of winning a title in the next 4 seasons.

dirno2000 · 05-22-2007, 05:24 PM

Funny, 40% is the number I had in mind.

And to clarify, I'm not saying I'd do this. I've only seen Oden play a handful of games so I'd have to watch tape of every game he's played plus find out more about his mental makeup.

It's certainly not a dumb question as some have suggested. It's something you have to consider (hypothetically since it'll never happen) if you removed the obvious emotional attachment to Dirk.