The Obama Gun Effect

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

If you eliminate guns like Britain and France, then you will have crime committed with knifes and other weapons. France and Britain have their problems with crime. And, the criminals still often obtain guns to commit the crime. The law abiding person did not have a gun to stand any chance in defense.

first, crime levels are lower in those countries than the us, but more important, and the focus of the issue, murders are much lower and so are accidental deaths by guns. the argument that people require guns to be protected is shown to be hollow when the citizens of countries that have strict laws on gun possession do not face as high a risk of being killed.

But, they still have their areas of high crime. They still have their murders. They still have their rapes. They still have their robberies and other crimes. They just use fewer guns (obtained illegally) and more knifes and other weapons.

these countries have lower incidence of crime, have lower incidence of murder. more guns do not rid society of criminals, nor do more guns reduce the risk of being murdered...in fact it increases the risk.

And, as to Greece: people are being killed there. It is not just property destruction.

you’re wrong, the only loss of life is the teen who was killed by the police.

Yes. Absolutely. If drug cartel thugs and mercernaries are executing persons in broad daylight and terrorizing my neighborhood, I want to have a chance to defend myself. I need a gun to do that. I need my neighbors to have guns to join me to defend ourselves.

that is not happening in the usa, we are being protected by our police. the easy access to guns by these criminals is not helping the situation in mexico, it is aggravating the crisis.

Have I been a victim of an insecure border? yes. Duh.

really? how have you been a ‘victim” of illegal immigration, and how does this relate to gun laws?

Have I been a victim of the drug trade? yes. I have had friends suffer destroyed lives. I, myself, have not partaken.

people who choose to take drugs aren’t “victims”. and how does this relate to gun laws?

Have I been a victim of gangs? No, because I was carrying a handgun with me on the one time in my life when I almost got mugged in Chicago.

how are you certain it was a gang, and your risk of being murdered increased with your use of a gun.

Have I been a victim of the drug cartels of Central America, Mexico, and their branches in the USA? The entire nation has suffered from it. Do a search for news about they are growing their crops in our national parks in harmful ways. Would you really act like this is not a problem in our nation?

how have you been a ‘victim”, as people who injest drugs and their friends/family are not victims at all. second, those groups who plant weed in forest land aren’t typically drug cartels they are individuals. last, how does this have anything to do with gun laws?

I do not think that the US military and police have the capacity to stop these problems unless the people of America get involved with them. Besides, we have too many politicians that don't want to offend Hispanics and other groups by adopting national policies and procedures that would secure the border and deal with the across border crime problems.

Texas has a huge problem with drugs coming across the Mexico border. You also have a lot of girls who were brought across for your enjoyment in the adult entertainment industry. It is all really quite sick.

are you saying that people should become vigilantes to stop human trafficking? otherwise, how does this have anything to do with gun laws?

The second amendment assures the individual right to own and bear arms. Read the SCOTUS decision if you like. It is a settled matter

the 2nd amendment says nothing about “protection”. the supreme court decision does not say that guns cannot be regulated.

And, lastly, Mavdog: I am not saying that requiring all sales/transfers of firearms to be done under the license of a FFL (licensed gun dealer) is a bad idea. Those companies would love that. They could charge a fee to watch Joe Bob sell his shotgun to Jim Bob.

I'm just saying that people won't actually go to the store to do it.

And, you also said that if a person sold a gun to someone without going through a licensed gun dealer and that gun was used in a crime, then the seller of the gun would be liable.

You may not realize that most states and cities have no registration requirements. No one knows who owns what guns in the first place. You can't trace that information very well.

Even the FBI background checks do not result in a permanent record. Congress specifically banned the FBI from keeping the records...

no registration exists outside of a few isolated places like Chicago and Washington DC. And, it hasn't helped them there...

make mandatory checks for all gun sales, and make all guns sales of record, and law abiding citizens will follow the law.

those who do not do the checks and record the sales will be criminals.

it’s really pretty clear, and all it takes is enacting the laws.

our society, and our country, will be much better off with laws that control the process of gun ownership and set out clear obligations of those who wish to own guns.