Official 2011 Dallas Cowboys Season Thread - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

chumdawg · 09-27-2011, 12:26 AM

Sexy win! Way to fight through everything going against them and gut out the 4th-quarter comeback (be sure to include this one, Romo haters). Can't say enough about Lee. And for that matter, Rob Ryan and the rest of the defense. Don't look now, but these guys are starting to look dangerous. Gimme Scandrick back and a fully healthy Jenkins and Newman, and I think I'm gonna really like it. And my goodness...wait till Bruce Carter joins the fold. (Maybe not till next year, but still.)

The offense needs Austin back in the worst possible way, but kudos to them for stringing together several scoring drives, even if they were just for field goals. How about that box score line for Felix Jones? Take that every single time. Notice the difference a lead blocker makes, even if it is just Fiamatta. Speaking of...I appreciate what he's doing for us, but do we really need to hand it to him on 3rd and 1?

Anyway...love the win, and love it even more since it came against the Redskins.

Male30Dan · 09-27-2011, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

(be sure to include this one, Romo haters)

Really? Obviously Romo can play great games. Hell, he can play great seasons. The point is he is so mistake prone he will eventually lose you a game (or games) due to stupidity. That didn't happen tonight any more than it will most nights - but until he proves me wrong, the guy just can't get it done on the biggest stage. I just don't believe anymore that he can lead us to the promised land (a superbowl victory).

Week 1 earned him what the Finals collapse earned Dirk. A "we will never win it all with this guy as our leader" award. I loved Dirk just as I love Tony, but it is what I believed to my core until Dirk actually did it. Hopefully Tony does it too and I get to do a happy dance while eating crow. Until then, please lose the TAKE THAT comments. Hey - I said please.

LonghornDub · 09-27-2011, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

Week 1 earned him what the Finals collapse earned Dirk. A "we will never win it all with this guy as our leader" award. I loved Dirk just as I love Tony, but it is what I believed to my core until Dirk actually did it. Hopefully Tony does it too and I get to do a happy dance while eating crow. Until then, please lose the TAKE THAT comments. Hey - I said please.

To be clear, your point is something along the lines of, "I jumped to a fallacious, incorrect conclusion with Dirk, and I will do the same with Romo until proven wrong"?

That's....interesting.

Male30Dan · 09-27-2011, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

To be clear, your point is something along the lines of, "I jumped to a fallacious, incorrect conclusion with Dirk, and I will do the same with Romo until proven wrong"?

That's....interesting.

6 years of failure up to that point and quite a few years after that to solidify my position (prior to last year) would have provided (and likely did provide) that same conclusion for many, many Mavs fans. Doesn't mean that I and others don't love the guy. Doesn't mean we don't want him to succeed. Doesn't mean we don't blindly hope. Just means that if we had a heart to heart with someone and truly gave our opinion of whether or not we thought he could get it done, the answer would be no (or would have been in Dirk's case).

Plus, let's not forget what got the big German over the hump. Interior defense played by one Tyson Chandler. Sure, #41 was genuinely beastly, but he has been beastly before without getting it done. That happens in team sports and Romo is much more "fail-infused" than Dirk ever was - but my overall stance was/is the same. Neither could win it all - until one did. I hope like hell Romo does too, but let's not act like this conclusion is based entirely on ignorance here - for Romo or for Dirk at the time.

Bottom line, Romo has F'ed up time and time again with mental gaffes that are as large as the grand canyon. Until he proves to me that he can stop that (not stop making mistakes - everyone does that - see Brady week 3) and quit with the insanely stupid decisions, well, let's just say not everyone can be:

LonghornDub · 09-27-2011, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

Neither could win it all - until one did. I hope like hell Romo does too, but let's not act like this conclusion is based entirely on ignorance here - for Romo or for Dirk at the time.

Do you not see the problem with offering this as your take? "Neither one could win it all -- until one did"?

That statement carries zero insight. It's not analysis--it's not even an opinion. It's tautology, true by definition. It's the equivalent of saying, "It'll never rain again until it rains." Neat.

This has nothing to do with being a homer. I'm not a huge Romo fan, although I do think he's better than any feasible alternative. I'm taking issue with this construct you've built where you essentially say, "It'll never happen....but maybe possibly I'll be wrong and it will someday." You can't have it both ways. If you really believe it'll never happen (rather than simply being unlikely to happen, which I'd agree with), you don't get an out.

Male30Dan · 09-27-2011, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Do you not see the problem with offering this as your take? "Neither one could win it all -- until one did"?

That statement carries zero insight. It's not analysis--it's not even an opinion. It's tautology, true by definition. It's the equivalent of saying, "It'll never rain again until it rains." Neat.

This has nothing to do with being a homer. I'm not a huge Romo fan, although I do think he's better than any feasible alternative. I'm taking issue with this construct you've built where you essentially say, "It'll never happen....but maybe possibly I'll be wrong and it will someday." You can't have it both ways. If you really believe it'll never happen (rather than simply being unlikely to happen, which I'd agree with), you don't get an out.

You don't get it... I am not saying IT WILL NEVER RAIN... UNTIL IT DOES.

I am saying I GENUINELY BELIEVE IT WILL NEVER RAIN... THEN IT DID.

I then ate crow, happily. That is not straddling a fence. How can I of all people (and with my rant the other day) ever, EVER be taken as someone that is looking for an out? Can you not distinguish the difference here?

chumdawg · 09-27-2011, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

Really? Obviously Romo can play great games. Hell, he can play great seasons. The point is he is so mistake prone he will eventually lose you a game (or games) due to stupidity. That didn't happen tonight any more than it will most nights - but until he proves me wrong, the guy just can't get it done on the biggest stage. I just don't believe anymore that he can lead us to the promised land (a superbowl victory).

Week 1 earned him what the Finals collapse earned Dirk. A "we will never win it all with this guy as our leader" award. I loved Dirk just as I love Tony, but it is what I believed to my core until Dirk actually did it. Hopefully Tony does it too and I get to do a happy dance while eating crow. Until then, please lose the TAKE THAT comments. Hey - I said please.

I'm just saying to be sure you take in the whole body of work when you form judgments, and not fall prety to the kind of bias where you focus on the bad while ignoring the good. Romo has had some gaffes, that's surely true. But he's done a lot of very good things, too. In my mind, he is very much a net positive, and also a guy who I think has all of the ability to get it done on the biggest stage, if he has adequate talent around him. I think the NFL is very much a team game, much more so than the NBA. I don't think there is any QB out there who is getting it done by himself. Hell, Manning is first ballot HOF, right? What he has accomplished? One title...and a whole lot of flameouts. Just sayin'!

Male30Dan · 09-27-2011, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I'm just saying to be sure you take in the whole body of work when you form judgments, and not fall prety to the kind of bias where you focus on the bad while ignoring the good. Romo has had some gaffes, that's surely true. But he's done a lot of very good things, too. In my mind, he is very much a net positive, and also a guy who I think has all of the ability to get it done on the biggest stage, if he has adequate talent around him. I think the NFL is very much a team game, much more so than the NBA. I don't think there is any QB out there who is getting it done by himself. Hell, Manning is first ballot HOF, right? What he has accomplished? One title...and a whole lot of flameouts. Just sayin'!

Trust me man - I fully acknowledge his accomplishments and know we are lucky to have him overall if our goal is to not be that 6-10 group led by INSERT SHITTY QB. He is certainly a top-10 QB in this league and on a given weekend can be the best overall. I do take that into consideration. You may not think I do because of the rant or whatever, but I love this cat man. I really do. It is a love/hate for sure, but I bleed Cowboy colors so when we play I am right there rooting for this team and our QB.

The issue is the fact that I simply do not share the opinion that he has the intestinal fortitude and mental competence to be consistent over the course of a playoff run to win a Super Bowl. A lot of it has to do with this team overall as well. We as a team make far too many mistakes that our leader can't....but he does. So when our team has Cs snapping balls over the head of our QB and has WRs having no clue how to run a standard route leading to turnovers and one of our TEs is, well, FING STUPID and our Offensive Coordinator is a GDAMN IDIOT 50-60% of the time in goal line situations - well, the QB can't also make mistakes. He didn't last week, so we won. But you look at week 1 and he did, so we lost. We win and lose based on Romo's stupidity adding to the team's stupidity and pushing our overall stupid level too far to secure a win or keeping it just shy of a loss.

That is why I think he can't lead us to the promised land primarily. With our team (a team full of STUPID that has SO much physical talent - something I have been saying for years now), the QB has to practically be dumb-free. He can make mistakes, sure, but he can't have the dumb moments that Romo all too often has. You can throw an interception because the defense simply makes a play or because there is a tip at the LOS or whatever. That happens by EVERYONE. But you can't throw the ball right to the defense with 50 seconds left in the game. You can't fumble on a decision that is ignorant at best with a chance to put a nail in the coffin. You can't be stupid.

I get you really like Romo. I get that you are seeing me as someone that probably made a snap decision on the guy given one really painful moment. But all I ask is that you respect my sincere love for this team and the fact that I haven't missed a minute of action for over a decade. My decision wasn't made with a snap judgement - it was made with eyes that have seen the stupidity for years and years and years now (along with his great plays far more often by the way). But with a team constructed with this much stupid, he would have to be perfect and get on a Dirk-like run at the right time with the team also playing with Chandler-like poise/intensity and I just don't see him or the team capable of that. I sincerely do not thing this team wins a Super Bowl with Romo. I wish I didn't feel that way, but I do. Sorry if that offends you or creates controversy with those that love to find a chance to ding me, but it is simply my opinion (despite people that want to say that it doesn't even qualify as that - wtf by the way). We can agree to disagree on this one.

As far as your Manning comment, he does not typically fail due to stupidity. He makes mistakes at times, sure, but far, far more often than not he fails due to his team failing, which is what I wish I could say happens when Dallas typically fails on the biggest stage. We both know some of the key playoff losses are not at that level. Sure, we have had team losses as well (Minnesota, Philly - which wasn't a playoff game but would have led to the playoffs had we won, etc) but other games have truly been lost due to last second Interceptions, unclutch moments, etc (Seattle, NY, countless RS games - remember, we don't exactly have a lot of playoff games to go off of here).

You put Manning on this team and, well, if nothing else - I don't have a belief that the team can't get it done. Manning may only have 1 ring, but the guy will likely retire as the greatest QB of all time when he finally does hang them up. This is a guy that is filled with INTELLIGENCE and not a lick of dumb. If only Romo could play that smart - hell, he would be the best QB in football.