07-18-2013, 01:51 AM
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#2
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: College Station
Posts: 153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by some1nw
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That's a really good article... Good to hear about Brandon Wright not that I had any doubts. Really good insight.
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@MarkWithaC03 staff writer for Fansided's Mavs site @thesmokingcuban.com and @TheMavsFanatic
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07-18-2013, 08:43 AM
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#3
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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The beginning of we are better off without Howard spin?
"On where things are now with the two-year plan:
"I think we’ve put ourselves in a spot where we’re in a better spot than we were at if we got just the one max-out deal. I think it’d be better shorter term and longer-term. I don’t want to make that sound the wrong way. I think we’ll be better this year because we added five good players or more."
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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07-18-2013, 08:53 AM
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#4
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Guru
Join Date: May 2001
Location: sport
Posts: 39,432
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Yeah, I noticed that dude... so why waste two years of Dirk?.. so the Mavs could have a shot at Calderon and Ellis?
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07-18-2013, 08:53 AM
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#5
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
The beginning of we are better off without Howard spin?
"On where things are now with the two-year plan:
"I think we’ve put ourselves in a spot where we’re in a better spot than we were at if we got just the one max-out deal. I think it’d be better shorter term and longer-term. I don’t want to make that sound the wrong way. I think we’ll be better this year because we added five good players or more."
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Well, we are better THIS YEAR by adding five players instead of just one - Dirk, Dwight and nothing wouldn't have done much... But long term? Yeah, we would have definitely been much, much better if we landed Howard.
And it's not like Ellis is a terrible consolation prize - efficiency aside, Dirk hasn't played with a scorer like him since 03-04 Finley.
Calderon was a smart grab too (although, admittedly, he would've looked a helluva lot smarter next to Dirk/Dwight).
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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07-18-2013, 08:59 AM
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#6
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy3
Yeah, I noticed that dude... so why waste two years of Dirk?.. so the Mavs could have a shot at Calderon and Ellis?
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That's an odd way of looking at it... They had a shot at Deron, Paul and Dwight, but came up short. Calderon and Ellis were never the target - they were the fallback.
Risk nothing, gain nothing. Just because the gamble didn't pay off doesn't mean it wasn't worth taking.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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07-18-2013, 09:05 AM
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#7
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Risked A LOT. Gained nothing.
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"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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07-18-2013, 09:08 AM
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#8
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
Risked A LOT. Gained nothing.
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That's our fault for winning a ring right before a lockout - everyone's value skyrocketed at the worst time.
Wouldn't give the ring back to do it all over though.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
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07-18-2013, 09:22 AM
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#9
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
The beginning of we are better off without Howard spin?
"On where things are now with the two-year plan:
"I think we’ve put ourselves in a spot where we’re in a better spot than we were at if we got just the one max-out deal. I think it’d be better shorter term and longer-term. I don’t want to make that sound the wrong way. I think we’ll be better this year because we added five good players or more."
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And isn't this exactly why a DWill or Howard didn't come because they agree with Cuban about adding five or more players versus just one?
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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07-18-2013, 09:41 AM
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#10
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy3
Yeah, I noticed that dude... so why waste two years of Dirk?.. so the Mavs could have a shot at Calderon and Ellis?
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2 years wasted: 1 shortened season in which Dirk came back out of shape and pit up some bad numbers early and a second in which he missed significant time due to an injury. But sure Cuban wasted it. I'm sure Jet and Barea would've carried us last season when Dirk was out...
__________________
“You can’t throw the ball through the nose of a defender and have it come out his a–hole to a teammate.”
– Rick Carlisle
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07-18-2013, 10:22 AM
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#11
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Bee Cave, Texas
Posts: 3,246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
And it's not like Ellis is a terrible consolation prize - efficiency aside, Dirk hasn't played with a scorer like him since 03-04 Finley.
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this is what makes me excited for the coming season - Training camp starts Oct.6th
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07-18-2013, 10:23 AM
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#12
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
The beginning of we are better off without Howard spin?
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Mark Cuban never said that about Howard. He explicitly said "we were disappointed we didn’t get Dwight". How much clearer does he need to get?
What Cuban did say is that "we’re in a better spot than we were at if we got just the one max-out deal". Presumably, that one max deal refers to guys like Andrew Iguodala and Josh Smith. A lot of people assumed the Mavs will blow their cap room on one of the other "max" guys as a fall back plan to Dwight.
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07-18-2013, 10:39 AM
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#13
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moogle
Mark Cuban never said that about Howard. He explicitly said "we were disappointed we didn’t get Dwight". How much clearer does he need to get?
What Cuban did say is that "we’re in a better spot than we were at if we got just the one max-out deal". Presumably, that one max deal refers to guys like Andrew Iguodala and Josh Smith. A lot of people assumed the Mavs will blow their cap room on one of the other "max" guys as a fall back plan to Dwight.
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It's clear from the context of the quote (and from having talked to BG about this conversation) that Cuban was primarily--if not entirely--referring to Howard when he said "the one max-out deal."
I believe in Cuban's business savvy and his general philosophy, but I will say candidly, this annual "we're better off without the guy we tried to get" isn't a good look for him. There is a way to remain positive and communicate the same idea without saying something so ridiculous. Don't make it comparative--just say "We feel we're in a great spot with the players we got."
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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07-18-2013, 10:44 AM
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#14
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 85
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Not sure if I've ever seen so much egg on a single person's face.
Back-to-back "Bay of Pigs" offseasons in a row.
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07-18-2013, 10:45 AM
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#15
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Bee Cave, Texas
Posts: 3,246
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Quote:
--Originally Posted by LonghornDub - Don't make it comparative--just say "We feel we're in a great spot with the players we got."
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that would be the classy way to say it. Somthing MC struggles with sometimes.
Last edited by dirt_dobber; 07-18-2013 at 10:46 AM.
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07-18-2013, 11:07 AM
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#16
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
It's clear from the context of the quote (and from having talked to BG about this conversation) that Cuban was primarily--if not entirely--referring to Howard when he said "the one max-out deal."
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I disagree. That max player comment was immediately followed by an explicit admission by Cuban that he was "disappointed" he failed to sign Dwight. Dude1394 presented Mark Cuban's quotation out of context. The actual interview went like this: 1. Cuban says he "took a chance" on Dwight but couldn't make it happen.
2. Cuban comments on Mavs' current situation by saying many players > 1 max player
3. Cuban again says he's disappointed he failed to sign Dwight. I think it's pretty obvious that Cuban's max player comment was referring to the Mavs' remaining options after Dwight had already rejected them. I don't think he was even thinking of Dwight as an available option at that point. Why else would he repeat his disappointment in landing Dwight before and after the max player comment? Here is the entire section of the interview, if you want to see it in the proper context:
Quote:
On the Mavs' results in free agency:
"Obviously, we didn’t get Dwight. We took a chance and it didn’t happen. I think we put together a really good team. It sticks within the culture we’ve tried to define. We’ve dealt with some of the weakness we had from last year. Hopefully, if we stay healthy, good things will happen."
On where things are now with the two-year plan:
"I think we’ve put ourselves in a spot where we’re in a better spot than we were at if we got just the one max-out deal. I think it’d be better shorter term and longer-term. I don’t want to make that sound the wrong way. I think we’ll be better this year because we added five good players or more."
On adjusting on the fly this offseason:
"You guys like to make a big deal about it. Obviously, we were disappointed we didn’t get Dwight, but we pretty much got everything else we wanted to get and then some. Much more. We never thought we’d be able to get Monta. It turned into a good summer. Now, the key is to get everybody playing together, get everyone healthy, keep them healthy and go."
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07-18-2013, 11:15 AM
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#17
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moogle
I disagree. That max player comment was immediately followed by an explicit admission by Cuban that he was "disappointed" he failed to sign Dwight. Dude1394 presented Mark Cuban's quotation out of context. The actual interview went like this: 1. Cuban says he "took a chance" on Dwight but couldn't make it happen.
2. Cuban comments on Mavs' current situation by saying many players > 1 max player
3. Cuban again says he's disappointed he failed to sign Dwight. I think it's pretty obvious that Cuban's max player comment was referring to the Mavs' remaining options after Dwight had already rejected them. I don't think he was even thinking of Dwight as an available option at that point. Why else would he repeat his disappointment in landing Dwight before and after the max player comment? Here is the entire section of the interview, if you want to see it in the proper context:
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Bro, I talked to the guy who had this conversation with him. The guy who sat face to face with Cuban during this conversation and asked the questions.
It was about Dwight. He repeated his disappointment to hedge, like most people do when analyzing issues from multiple angles.
*edit to add* I do appreciate, though, that you're trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. It's a much better approach than what a lot of folks do when it comes to these things.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
Last edited by LonghornDub; 07-18-2013 at 11:21 AM.
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07-18-2013, 11:39 AM
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#18
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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Of course Cuban is referring to Howard, and it does send a somewhat mixed message. Like Longhorn said, there are better ways of putting a positive spin on something.
__________________
"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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07-18-2013, 12:48 PM
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#19
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Diamond Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: DC
Posts: 4,712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
That's an odd way of looking at it... They had a shot at Deron, Paul and Dwight, but came up short. Calderon and Ellis were never the target - they were the fallback.
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I don't know that they were the fallback so much as they just happened to be there (especially Ellis) when we tried to pick up the pieces.
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Quote:
RT @TyLawson3 Good game between Dallas and Portland. Good thing we didn't end up getting Dallas. Coach Karl lost his mind.
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07-18-2013, 02:12 PM
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#20
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
Bro, I talked to the guy who had this conversation with him. The guy who sat face to face with Cuban during this conversation and asked the questions.
It was about Dwight. He repeated his disappointment to hedge, like most people do when analyzing issues from multiple angles.
*edit to add* I do appreciate, though, that you're trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. It's a much better approach than what a lot of folks do when it comes to these things.
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But then he slams poor old dude for taking it out of context. .
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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07-18-2013, 02:20 PM
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#21
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 41.21.1
Posts: 36,143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nowhereman
I don't know that they were the fallback so much as they just happened to be there (especially Ellis) when we tried to pick up the pieces.
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We tried to trade for Calderon last season, so I don't know how you could view him as less than a fallback... Hell, all signs indicate that we would've made a run for him even if we had landed Dwight Howard.
And I have no idea where Ellis ranked in our offseason plans, but a ton of writers pegged him as the Mavs #1 fallback plan if/when we missed out on Paul and Howard.
__________________
These days being a fan is a competition to see who can be the most upset when
your team loses. That proves you love winning more. That's how it works.
Last edited by Underdog; 07-18-2013 at 02:23 PM.
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07-18-2013, 03:47 PM
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#22
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Golden Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Greater Nowheres
Posts: 1,189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
We tried to trade for Calderon last season, so I don't know how you could view him as less than a fallback... Hell, all signs indicate that we would've made a run for him even if we had landed Dwight Howard.
And I have no idea where Ellis ranked in our offseason plans, but a ton of writers pegged him as the Mavs #1 fallback plan if/when we missed out on Paul and Howard.
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You're overthinking it. The key is to automatically drag whatever the FO does through a pasture full of shit first and ask quest... scratch that. Just do the first part. And something, something, Chandler. The end.
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07-18-2013, 04:03 PM
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#23
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Banned
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4,379
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Mavs are better off in a way. During this long ordeal of Dwight creating an circus. Cuban just didn't come out looking like the desperate one. There wasn't anything to lose for us. Mostly Dwight just saying "no". The real losers in this are the Lakers for investing so much into him. But nothing in return.
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07-18-2013, 05:51 PM
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#24
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: now, here
Posts: 7,720
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Been riding Cuban pretty hard the last couple days but all in all, still have to thank him for getting Dirk a ring and keeping him a Mav. Weird to see Pierce as a Net today.
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watch your thoughts, they become your words
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07-18-2013, 07:11 PM
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#25
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Guru
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 23,233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbitproof
Been riding Cuban pretty hard the last couple days but all in all, still have to thank him for getting Dirk a ring and keeping him a Mav. Weird to see Pierce as a Net today.
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Yeah EXACTLY. For all of the pro tankers...just look at Boston. They are a Wiggins team that somehow have Gerald Wallace and his horrid contract instead of a perennial playoff team. The logic of tanking is swell as long as you're willing to risk losing the fanbase in the process.
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"Cream of the crop gon' rise to the top." -Jaden Hardy
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07-18-2013, 07:45 PM
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#26
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Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: California
Posts: 348
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At the end of the day our finals run was due in part to Dirk catching fire at the right time.
Outside of Tyson Chandler, none of those guys we lost were that big
We brought Terry, Kidd, and Marion back and that didn't get us much, Dallas went 41-35 or something like that, would Chandler have given us another 20+ wins and another run to the title? Unlikely.
Miami is a better team now than the one we faced and they have been the past couple seasons.
Dallas wouldn't have repeated and keeping Chandler at his price tag was a risky gamble but outside of that we didn't lose anybody big.
I honestly don't believe that even with Tyson Chandler we would have defended our title, especially against the Heat.
Had Dallas not won a ring and dismantled that team what would you guys be saying right now? "Those guys were getting old, Tyson wanted too much money and we need a star for the future".
Stevenson, Peja, Cardinal, JJB,Brewer good role players but not stars.
The only "asset" we lost off that squad was Tyson, that's it.
Last edited by He15man; 07-18-2013 at 07:45 PM.
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07-18-2013, 11:02 PM
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#27
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Here we go again and again and again.
Once it became obvious that the Mavs were not interested in defending their title that team was gone. Tyson, jjb, desean, brewer. The rest knew they were gone next year as well.
It was the stupidest most arrogant front office screw up in nba history.
It cheapened the title and gave legs to this type of post and opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by He15man
At the end of the day our finals run was due in part to Dirk catching fire at the right time.
Outside of Tyson Chandler, none of those guys we lost were that big
We brought Terry, Kidd, and Marion back and that didn't get us much, Dallas went 41-35 or something like that, would Chandler have given us another 20+ wins and another run to the title? Unlikely.
Miami is a better team now than the one we faced and they have been the past couple seasons.
Dallas wouldn't have repeated and keeping Chandler at his price tag was a risky gamble but outside of that we didn't lose anybody big.
I honestly don't believe that even with Tyson Chandler we would have defended our title, especially against the Heat.
Had Dallas not won a ring and dismantled that team what would you guys be saying right now? "Those guys were getting old, Tyson wanted too much money and we need a star for the future".
Stevenson, Peja, Cardinal, JJB,Brewer good role players but not stars.
The only "asset" we lost off that squad was Tyson, that's it.
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__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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07-19-2013, 12:59 AM
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#28
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
Here we go again and again and again.
Once it became obvious that the Mavs were not interested in defending their title that team was gone. Tyson, jjb, desean, brewer. The rest knew they were gone next year as well.
It was the stupidest most arrogant front office screw up in nba history.
It cheapened the title and gave legs to this type of post and opinion.
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Not sure how it cheapened the title. I'd argue it made the title even more special. We never had to watch that team lose (which they would have, had they stayed together much longer). That squad is undefeated and unblemished in the playoffs, forever. I rather like that.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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07-19-2013, 01:07 AM
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#29
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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I think it cheapened the title because they did not have a chance to show what a great team it was.
It is now perceived as a one hit wonder that just got lucky.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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07-19-2013, 01:09 AM
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#30
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
I think it cheapened the title because they did not have a chance to show what a great team it was.
It is now perceived as a one hit wonder that just got lucky.
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And how would it have been perceived if they had brought the team back and lost in the playoffs the following 2-3 years?
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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07-19-2013, 01:13 AM
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#31
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Well assuming they did, certainly not less than they are perceived now. Unless it was a sweep and a lottery team like the last two years.
I expect they would have made the wcf the next year. And would have had a good chance to get to the finals again. Spurs/thunder didn't put that much fear into me in 2012.
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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07-19-2013, 01:21 AM
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#32
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
I think it cheapened the title because they did not have a chance to show what a great team it was.
It is now perceived as a one hit wonder that just got lucky.
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They did show what a great team they were when they won the title. If that wasn't enough to convince someone of how great that team was, or how legendary Dirk is and always has been, that someone isn't worth worrying about
__________________
"He's coming off the bench aggressive right away, looking for his shot. If he has any daylight, we need him to shoot the ball. We know it's going in."
-Dirk Nowitzki on Jason Terry, after JET's 16 point 4th quarter against the Pacers.
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07-19-2013, 01:22 AM
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#33
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 17,873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
I expect they would have made the wcf the next year. And would have had a good chance to get to the finals again. Spurs/thunder didn't put that much fear into me in 2012.
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That's the fundamental problem with your argument. Always has been.
__________________
John Madden on Former NFL Running Back Leroy Hoard: "You want one yard, he'll get you three. You want five yards, he'll get you three."
"Your'e a low-mentality drama gay queen!!" -- She_Growls
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07-19-2013, 01:27 AM
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#34
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Guru
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 11,790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
Well assuming they did, certainly not less than they are perceived now. Unless it was a sweep and a lottery team like the last two years.
I expect they would have made the wcf the next year. And would have had a good chance to get to the finals again. Spurs/thunder didn't put that much fear into me in 2012.
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Assuming we got to face spurs/thunder in 2012, I agree. Western conference was up for grabs.
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07-19-2013, 01:32 AM
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#35
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grndmstr_c
They did show what a great team they were when they won the title. If that wasn't enough to convince someone of how great that team was, or how legendary Dirk is and always has been, that someone isn't worth worrying about
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You don't have to convince me how good the team was but perceptions are perceptions. You cannot tell me that winning b2b wouldn't have cemented that teams legacy..
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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07-19-2013, 01:32 AM
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#36
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Guru
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 40,410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornDub
That's the fundamental problem with your argument. Always has been.
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Oh so you also think they were a lucky one hit wonder?
__________________
"Yankees fans who say “flags fly forever’’ are right, you never lose that. It reinforces all the good things about being a fan. ... It’s black and white. You (the Mavs) won a title. That’s it and no one can say s--- about it.’’
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07-19-2013, 02:08 AM
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#37
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
Oh so you also think they were a lucky one hit wonder?
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Age, dude. Age and wear and tear.
__________________
"He's coming off the bench aggressive right away, looking for his shot. If he has any daylight, we need him to shoot the ball. We know it's going in."
-Dirk Nowitzki on Jason Terry, after JET's 16 point 4th quarter against the Pacers.
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07-19-2013, 07:45 AM
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#38
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Golden Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grndmstr_c
Age, dude. Age and wear and tear.
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So you wanted to blow it completely up including Dirk?
If Dirk's getting old regardless wouldn't you want a defensive poy center next to him to finish his career?
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07-19-2013, 07:47 AM
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#39
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Golden Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude1394
Oh so you also think they were a lucky one hit wonder?
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Lucky? No. Likely to repeat? No.
They peaked at the right time. If they were all a couple years younger then they repeat.
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07-19-2013, 08:11 AM
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#40
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Guru
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,016
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We are the only team to ever beat Lebron with anything other than an absolute pile of dogshit as his help. That proves how great that team was
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